Farrell pulling a Francona again?

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from notin. Show notin's posts

    Re: Farrell pulling a Francona again?

    In response to Joebreidey's comment:

    In response to Hfxsoxnut's comment:

     

    Our only long reliever is Mortensen so his options weren't great.

     



    If your SP has a short outing, you have only bad alternatives.  Oddly enough, a very good manager like Gardenhire, left his SP for more ERs.  Leyland, who is supposed to be a good manager, left his guy in for 6 runs, 5 earned.  Bochy, who's won 2WSC in three years, left his guy in for 6 runs.

     

    And this is the same complaint they had about Tito, who did the same things as Scioscia and Maddon.

    It's like they don't realize that managers hate wiping out their bullpens.  This is BB101.




     

    Exactly, the problem wth pulling a [itcher early is that if you use the bullpen too much, you wind up costing yourself 2 or 3 more games chasing that one.  And just because a guy like Miller used to be a starter does not mean he can go back-to-back days, you know, like starters never do.   It's not only the pitch count that matters.

     

     

     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from notin. Show notin's posts

    Re: Farrell pulling a Francona again?

    In response to craze4sox's comment:

    In response to Hfxsoxnut's comment:

     

    Excellent job by Alex Wilson getting 7 outs tonight. 

     



    No doubt, with our current SP the pen needs to continue pitching well, especially if we don't find a real 3rd starter.

     




     

    Franklin Morales will come off the DL soon and was being stretched out to be a starter. Expect Doubront to be pushed back into the pen...

     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from southpaw777. Show southpaw777's posts

    Re: Farrell pulling a Francona again?

    In response to craze4sox's comment:

    In response to ampoule's comment:

     

    Anyone here who's played ball on a serious level knows that these pitchers are not machines.  Arms need rest.  It's not like turning on your radio and letting it go on forever.

    The obvious reason Farrell held pulling him earlier is to give the bullpen much needed rest.

    It's been my worry since early in the season that because of lack of innings by our 3-5 guys, the bullpen would burn out.

    Anyone who doesn't realize this, obviously hasn't played any baseball beyond pee-wee league.

     



    There are exceptions amp and tonight was never going to get better, it was obvious from the start.  I know why Farrell did what he did and still disagree.  He was very lucky the offense bailed us out.  By the way I played ball as a catcher from the age of 8 "little league" all the way through my Uconn days which is why I'm one of the only fans who can recognozed how well Lav did tonight defensively.

    Those who doubt his defense also don't know much about the game, or see his work ethic compared to Salty at 25.

     

     



    I though he did a good job in all areas tonight. I was hoping, as I stated in another thread, that his poor performance last year was due to being worn out after catching the most games he ever has when he was promoted to Boston. Looking forward to when Vasquez and Lavarnway are catching for us.

     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from georom4. Show georom4's posts

    Re: Farrell pulling a Francona again?

    one of the things i dont like about the whole one inning specialist relief configuration is that if you designate someone as a stopper - you are obligated to stick with him when he's pitching...thats his role and if you remove him, then you are messing with his confidence and faith in his abilities....it should be like pinch hitting - you dont do it often but sometimes it has to be done and it is done simply to give you the best chance for winning...watching managers sit catatonic in the dugout while their closer cant find the strike zone is just insane imo...

     
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  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from Joebreidey. Show Joebreidey's posts

    Re: Farrell pulling a Francona again?

    In response to craze4sox's comment:

    In response to Joebreidey's comment:

     

    Scoreless in his last 12 innings is pretty good.  With the way Lackey, Demp and Doub are pitching he probably wouldn't have done any worse.

    He allowed 3 ERs on 5/12.

     




    If I'm wrong sorry, but NESN made the statement in the pre game tonight.  Regardless you are still avoiding the real issue.  Can a guy that has started in the past pitch again after working a few innings the night before?  I say yes, Miller has the arm and experience to handle the task whether its baseball code or not.

     



    You have to be on the bench for some of this, to see how he feels.

    Past that, I think being a former starter would condition you to longer, not more often.

     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from Joebreidey. Show Joebreidey's posts

    Re: Farrell pulling a Francona again?

    In response to seabeachfred's comment:

    In response to Joebreidey's comment:

     

    The night before, in a very short schedule, Verlander allowed 8 ERs, Cain 6 ERs, and Chacin 8 ERs.

     




    OK, ok Joe, we get the point and you're correct.  Managers other than Farrell leave their starting pitchers in too long.  Francona did and so does Scioscia, Leyland, and others.  It comes down to not wearing out the bullpen by August.  We all know our problem not.  Our closer is still recovering from a bicep ailment, the other "closer" is gone for the season and we are stretched out.  The problem could be alleviated if someone other than Lester or Buchholz could go more than five innings.  The back end of our rotation is putting tremendous pressure on our bullpen, shorthanded as it already is.  Sometimes you have to play the hand that is dealt you and, frankly I thought Farrell handled it as well as he could tonight.

     

    Now Lackey needs to go deep in the game tomorrow and he needs to pitch well enough for us to both save the pen as much as possible and win at the same time.

     

     



    Good morning Fred, how you doing on the left coast?

    What we're doing is still pretty much the same as everyone.  We need the 3/4/5 guys to go deeper.  You know what, so does everyone else.  That is why they are 3/4/5 guys, because they aren't as good as the 1/2 guys.  We are #7 of 15 in the AL in lowest BP IPs, right next to the NYY, and Detroit.

     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from Joebreidey. Show Joebreidey's posts

    Re: Farrell pulling a Francona again?

    In response to royf19's comment:

    In response to tcal2-'s comment:

     

    Maybe as the game evolves teams should get rid of of one of the useless .100 hitting bench players and replace that spot with another long reliever.

    it will never happen though since baseball is pretty much stuck with a 1940's mind set.  

     



    Teams have changed. You need to pay better attention.

     

    In the 1970s when I was growing up during the days of four-man rotations, teams usually had 10 pitchers, two catchers and 13 position players. That gave them a bench of one catcher and five position players.

    Now, teams carry 12 pitchers, two catchers and 11 position players. That gives them a bench of one catcher and three position players. So there's hardly a useless player loitering on the bench.



    Another consideration is not not every player is available every night.  You could see on Friday when Vic was unvailable, how few options we had to PH.

     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from BosoxJoe5. Show BosoxJoe5's posts

    Re: Farrell pulling a Francona again?

    In response to softlaw2's comment:

    Manager John pulled Dumpster soon enough. The longer the season goes, the more I like Manager John's management style. Brutal, from Dempster, 127 pitches for 4.2 innings. His ERA is getting closer to the 4.5 or worse that I projected it to be. He has exceeded my expectations, though, just not worth 13.25 million a year to be a bottom of the rotation type of guy. To his credit, though, he has had some good starts.

    I love the way Manager John is handling Ortiz. Instead of riding him, they should give him Sunday off. Middlebrooks is coming to life, needs to keep it up.



    This post is just so foolish.

     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from tcal2-. Show tcal2-'s posts

    Re: Farrell pulling a Francona again?

    In response to Joebreidey's comment:

     

    In response to royf19's comment:

     

    In response to tcal2-'s comment:

     

    Maybe as the game evolves teams should get rid of of one of the useless .100 hitting bench players and replace that spot with another long reliever.

    it will never happen though since baseball is pretty much stuck with a 1940's mind set.  

     



    Teams have changed. You need to pay better attention.

     

    In the 1970s when I was growing up during the days of four-man rotations, teams usually had 10 pitchers, two catchers and 13 position players. That gave them a bench of one catcher and five position players.

    Now, teams carry 12 pitchers, two catchers and 11 position players. That gives them a bench of one catcher and three position players. So there's hardly a useless player loitering on the bench.

     



    Another consideration is not not every player is available every night.  You could see on Friday when Vic was unvailable, how few options we had to PH.

     

     



    That's another thing that kinda rubs me the wrong way with Baseball Joe.  You have mostly a group of twenty something's (and some low 30's sprinkled in) who already get x # of days off a week as negotiated by their union.  Yet the entrenched mind set is we must give these kids extra time off.

     

    I'm not sure if anyone else has noticed but baseball is the most physically non-gruling sports out there, rated slightly below Billards on the narcolepsy scale.  90% of the game for position players is spent standing around or sitting on a bench, 2 activities that in the real world would earn none of us comp time.

    Oh well even though I don't like some of the dated thinking I still love the game.

     
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  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from TheExaminer. Show TheExaminer's posts

    Re: Farrell pulling a Francona again?

    In response to stapleton's comment:

    Farrell is the anti-Valentine.....he is infallible....he will not make one mistake or wrong move this entire year.



    Well, it did work out, sooooo.........lol

     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from Sheriff-Rojas. Show Sheriff-Rojas's posts

    Re: Farrell pulling a Francona again?

    Farrell is pulling a Francona in that he is prepping a team for the playoffs and a playoff run.  Plus, he knows how to conduct himself in front of the press and understands how not to stir up unnecessary controversy by protecting his players in public and not revealing much of what goes on behind the scenes.  Pulling a Francona is a positive.

     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from JimfromFlorida. Show JimfromFlorida's posts

    Re: Farrell pulling a Francona again?

    Funny that this thread is about not pulling a pitcher fast enough.

    Yet there is another thread about RS BP pitching too much in appearances, innings and pitches.

     

    Yet all the numbers say the RS are near the lower part of the numbers in Relief appearances and innings and pitches thrown????????????????

     

    Should they be pulled quicker or is Farrell doing it right?

    IMHO there is no right answer if you base it upon ONE game.

    You need to look at the recent two or three games and a lot of other items like team played, batters faced, pitches thrown, etc....

     

     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from craze4sox. Show craze4sox's posts

    Re: Farrell pulling a Francona again?

    In response to Sheriff-Rojas's comment:

     

    Farrell is pulling a Francona in that he is prepping a team for the playoffs and a playoff run.  Plus, he knows how to conduct himself in front of the press and understands how not to stir up unnecessary controversy by protecting his players in public and not revealing much of what goes on behind the scenes.  Pulling a Francona is a positive.

     



    I respect everyones opinion but stand by my statement.  With that said, I also feel Farrell will be a better manager than Francona "if" he can maintain structure.  A big part of Francona's problem was allowing vets like Wake and Schil to stay in games much too long later in their careers.  This, along with not being a disciplinarian were weaknesses that eventually led to his departure because the inmates took over the clubhouse.  Francona was a decent manager but also had the good fortune of being surrounded by much better players than Farrell. 

     

    To call Terry one of our greatest managers ever because we finally won two WC'S?  Thats stretching things a bit considering the team was already in place and close to achieving the same status in 2003 with Grady Little if one or two things went differently for us. 

     

     

     

     
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  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from dgalehouse. Show dgalehouse's posts

    Re: Farrell pulling a Francona again?

    Farrell was obviously trying to get Dempster through five so he could get the win. You can either agree or disagree with it. But don't try to spin it like he was trying to save the bullpen. One more batter is not going to make a difference with the pen. Overall , most would agree that Farrell  is doing a good job. 

     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from SinceYaz. Show SinceYaz's posts

    Re: Farrell pulling a Francona again?

    In response to MrSpock's comment:

    In response to craze4sox's comment:

     

    Does this guy learn?  Dempster is a vet but you can't be a sissy and leave a guy pitching the way Dempster has tonight in the game.  Get a set of Ba....s

     




    Francona was the manager when we won two World Championships; one of the best managers in team history.

     



    Don't look now, but Tito has the Indians in first place in its division ....

     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from craze4sox. Show craze4sox's posts

    Re: Farrell pulling a Francona again?

    In response to SinceYaz's comment:

    In response to MrSpock's comment:

     

    In response to craze4sox's comment:

     

    Does this guy learn?  Dempster is a vet but you can't be a sissy and leave a guy pitching the way Dempster has tonight in the game.  Get a set of Ba....s

     




    Francona was the manager when we won two World Championships; one of the best managers in team history.

     

     



    Don't look now, but Tito has the Indians in first place in its division ....

     



    The Indians are playing well but I just don't see their team having enough depth to keep it up all season.  Masterson is their ancor on the staff, after that its just not there.  I would love to have Justin back pitching along side Clay and Jon.  I'm sure Justin would love to be back. 

     
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  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from seabeachfred. Show seabeachfred's posts

    Re: Farrell pulling a Francona again?

    In response to Joebreidey's comment:

    In response to seabeachfred's comment:

     

    In response to Joebreidey's comment:

     

    The night before, in a very short schedule, Verlander allowed 8 ERs, Cain 6 ERs, and Chacin 8 ERs.

     




    OK, ok Joe, we get the point and you're correct.  Managers other than Farrell leave their starting pitchers in too long.  Francona did and so does Scioscia, Leyland, and others.  It comes down to not wearing out the bullpen by August.  We all know our problem not.  Our closer is still recovering from a bicep ailment, the other "closer" is gone for the season and we are stretched out.  The problem could be alleviated if someone other than Lester or Buchholz could go more than five innings.  The back end of our rotation is putting tremendous pressure on our bullpen, shorthanded as it already is.  Sometimes you have to play the hand that is dealt you and, frankly I thought Farrell handled it as well as he could tonight.

     

    Now Lackey needs to go deep in the game tomorrow and he needs to pitch well enough for us to both save the pen as much as possible and win at the same time.

     

     

     



    Good morning Fred, how you doing on the left coast?

     

    What we're doing is still pretty much the same as everyone.  We need the 3/4/5 guys to go deeper.  You know what, so does everyone else.  That is why they are 3/4/5 guys, because they aren't as good as the 1/2 guys.  We are #7 of 15 in the AL in lowest BP IPs, right next to the NYY, and Detroit.




    Personally I'm doing a little better since we finally started winning games again, and I hope we can keep stringing those W's together without another one or two long losing streaks.   It also should remind you of something else happening on the Left Coast with my previous sentence.  The Angels and Dodgers are really teeing their fans off with their disappointing seasons so far, but better them than us.  My only disagreement with your post is not the No. 4 and 5 guys.  That makes perfect sense to me, but I think every team that wants to contend must have  three solid starting pitchers winning as consistently as possible.  Maybe with Lackey's terrific six innings today we may have those three now.  I said maybe, remember that.  John has to repeat that performance a few more times, and wouldn't it be swell if Dempster finally got his s@it together and started doing the same?  That would be 4, but maybe I better not get too greedy.

     

     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from SinceYaz. Show SinceYaz's posts

    Re: Farrell pulling a Francona again?

    In response to craze4sox's comment:

    In response to SinceYaz's comment:

     

    In response to MrSpock's comment:

     

    In response to craze4sox's comment:

     

    Does this guy learn?  Dempster is a vet but you can't be a sissy and leave a guy pitching the way Dempster has tonight in the game.  Get a set of Ba....s

     




    Francona was the manager when we won two World Championships; one of the best managers in team history.

     

     



    Don't look now, but Tito has the Indians in first place in its division ....

     

     



    The Indians are playing well but I just don't see their team having enough depth to keep it up all season.  Masterson is their ancor on the staff, after that its just not there.  I would love to have Justin back pitching along side Clay and Jon.  I'm sure Justin would love to be back. 

     




    I know, Lefty.  But, the team has bought into the possibiblty and are playing like Tito can help fellas play.  OK, he's not the top game general, but the guy can get fellas to play ... The Striped Cats oughta be walking away with the division, but a quarter of the season in, Cleveland is a surprise.  Last season the Indians were the dregs ... For some reason, Tito can get guys to play together - until they get too big for their pants.

     

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