Filling the gaps with patch contracts - a la Beltre

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from Sheriff-Rojas. Show Sheriff-Rojas's posts

    Filling the gaps with patch contracts - a la Beltre

    Without knowing the specifics of each FA negotiation, I would hope the general direction the team goes in this hot stove season is to fill in the positional gaps with big annual, but short-term, FA contracts.  I would think they don't want to repeat the mistakes of the albatross contracts they just rid themselves of, but they do have money to spend and large gaps to fill.  Ideally, they want to sign FAs to one and two year deals that may land them some decent players, but make room for the Bogaertses, Bradleys, and other up-and-comers when they're ready.  Torii Hunter comes to mind, and possibly Ross, although I do think that Ross is likely to get three years elsewhere.  Hunter is a solid all-around player and his numbers are pretty consistent.  I would take the risk that he could hold up at least another year or two.  I'm not that keen on LaRoach, Napoli, or Swicher, but they are in dire need of some decent production from first.  Whomever they can get short-term is my preference, given that this player is not a potential disruptive force in the dugout. If they do land Hunter, Ross, and one of three first-basemen mentioned, they should have a competitive lineup for the next year or two.  

    And then there's pitching.  This is where this team doesn't cut it.  Other than Greinke, whom I see as too risky given his fragile emotional makeup, I don't see any saviors on the immediate horizon.  There's really nothing out there right now, and then you have to give up too much in trade, as every team covets aces and potential ones.  I'm hoping for a surprise in a quick recovery and emergence of De La Rosa.  I would think the way to go is to bundle any surplus (possibly Ells at midseason, one of the backstops, and a reliever or two if this area solidifies) and take a stab at potential top of the rotation pitchers and hope somebody emerges.

    Anyhow, please chime in and let me know if you agree or not about this general idea.  If you do, please add to the list of available FAs whom you think they could nab short-term and prove to be a significant upgrade.  

     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from AL34. Show AL34's posts

    Re: Filling the gaps with patch contracts - a la Beltre

    If Cherrington fills this roster with signings like Ross and charge top dollar Fenway prices, he is smoking dope. The fans will not tolerate this type of "sell job". What scares me is John Henry's investment firm in Florida closing and this team going the "el cheapo mode". Henry saved a ton of payroll for part of August and all of September. The fans had to watch that patch work of a team embarrass themselves. Thatbwas one of the worst Red Sox teams that fans hadvto watch.

    It amazes me thinking back to 2011, that all this team had to do was to trade for a desecnt pitcher at the trade deadline and they would have won definitely one more game to propel themselves into the playoffs and maybe win the whole thing. Everyone would be happy, Tito would be the manager, Epstein the GM and he team would be intact and the disaster would never have happened.

     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from mef429. Show mef429's posts

    Re: Filling the gaps with patch contracts - a la Beltre

    In response to AL34's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    If Cherrington fills this roster with signings like Ross and charge top dollar Fenway prices, he is smoking dope. The fans will not tolerate this type of "sell job". What scares me is John Henry's investment firm in Florida closing and this team going the "el cheapo mode". Henry saved a ton of payroll for part of August and all of September. The fans had to watch that patch work of a team embarrass themselves. Thatbwas one of the worst Red Sox teams that fans hadvto watch.

    It amazes me thinking back to 2011, that all this team had to do was to trade for a desecnt pitcher at the trade deadline and they would have won definitely one more game to propel themselves into the playoffs and maybe win the whole thing. Everyone would be happy, Tito would be the manager, Epstein the GM and he team would be intact and the disaster would never have happened.

    [/QUOTE]


    or notsign CC...

     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from Soxdog67. Show Soxdog67's posts

    Re: Filling the gaps with patch contracts - a la Beltre

    Beltre is the perfect example of a patch contract, not Torii Hunter...although both qualify as such.

    Beltre was a good player in his prime years playing in a ballpark that stunts statistics...thus he was a rose ready to bloom coming to a place like Boston. Cody Ross was another example of this, but not to the same level as Beltre.

    The point is you bring them in for a one-year deal and let them restore their game and increase their marketablilty...I don't think there are any players like that in the free agent market this year, unless maybe a guy like Grady Sizemore, who if healthy, is/was a 5-tool player.

    Hunter is a patch in the framework that he is a player at the end of his career that might have a productive year or two left in him...worth filling a hole for that period of time before one of the teams prospects or someone else takes his place.

     

     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from Joebreidey. Show Joebreidey's posts

    Re: Filling the gaps with patch contracts - a la Beltre

    I have no objections to one-year deals, but I wouldn't necessarily use Beltre as an example.  His upside was huge, and his risk relatively low.  I can't beleive that the same GMs that were throwing around $90M figures couldn't see the benefit of a one-year deal.

    Fangraphs has done an article(s) about veteran contracts being an under-utilized resource.

    Having said that, everyone else sees the same thing we see, so getting a bargain is easier said than done.  One advantage that we have is that some vets will see Fenway as a good place for a make-good contract.  No doubt it helped Beltre and Ross.

    I'm hoping that, if Napoli doesn't get an offer better than maybe $12M/2, he'll think about coming to Fenway to re-establsih his value for one year.

     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from Flapjack07. Show Flapjack07's posts

    Re: Filling the gaps with patch contracts - a la Beltre

    At Hunter's age, I'd be rather wary unless he comes pretty cheaply and for only one year (unlikely). Obviously he's a very solid all-around player with a long track record of success, but so was another 2010 "bridge" signing that didn't work out as well -- Mike Cameron.

     
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  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from mef429. Show mef429's posts

    Re: Filling the gaps with patch contracts - a la Beltre

    In response to SindarinEribor's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    The 2011 team was decimated with injuries at the time of the trade deadline. Sure adding a pitcher might have won one more game but so would many other things. If we had made it into the playoffs we never would have made it through the first round.. Making trades at the deadline might have wasted some valuable prospects.

    [/QUOTE]


    and we would possibly be in much worse shape than we are now

     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from southpaw777. Show southpaw777's posts

    Re: Filling the gaps with patch contracts - a la Beltre

    Even if Cameron stayed healthy, I think we will get better production out of Hunter. Over his career, Hunter has had better numbers than Cam has. Not a huge difference, but still better.

     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from Flapjack07. Show Flapjack07's posts

    Re: Filling the gaps with patch contracts - a la Beltre

    In response to southpaw777's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Even if Cameron stayed healthy, I think we will get better production out of Hunter. Over his career, Hunter has had better numbers than Cam has. Not a huge difference, but still better.

    [/QUOTE]

    Oh, I agree...I'm not saying they're the same player by any means. I'm just a little gun-shy on signing 38-year-old outfielders, I guess. That may be unfair to Hunter.

     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from southpaw777. Show southpaw777's posts

    Re: Filling the gaps with patch contracts - a la Beltre

    In response to Flapjack07's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to southpaw777's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Even if Cameron stayed healthy, I think we will get better production out of Hunter. Over his career, Hunter has had better numbers than Cam has. Not a huge difference, but still better.

    [/QUOTE]

    Oh, I agree...I'm not saying they're the same player by any means. I'm just a little gun-shy on signing 38-year-old outfielders, I guess. That may be unfair to Hunter.

    [/QUOTE]


    Thats understandable with what happened to Cameron to be a little wary of signing a 37 year old Hunter. But it would be like saying we arent going to get anymore pitchers from Japan because of Dice-K.

     
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  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from JimfromFlorida. Show JimfromFlorida's posts

    Re: Filling the gaps with patch contracts - a la Beltre

    Hunter is 36 he has had one yr under 270 in his last 7 or 8. Ross has had one yr over 270 in his last 7 or 8. The defense overall is better by Hunter. I'd rather Hunter for 2 than Ross for 3.

    Hunter is not Cam as Cam did not have the consistency Hunter does over the last 7 or 8 yrs.

    BTW there is no Beltre available this year no FA is an Adrian Beltre type.

    Alol FA signings will be 1 or 2 years maybe a three by the RS.

    The only Beltre close is Hamilton but I do not consider him as good because of injuries over the past few years. I also see him only getting 4 yrs max. anything longer is a major gamble.

     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from southpaw777. Show southpaw777's posts

    Re: Filling the gaps with patch contracts - a la Beltre

    In response to JimfromFlorida's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Hunter is 36 he has had one yr under 270 in his last 7 or 8. Ross has had one yr over 270 in his last 7 or 8. The defense overall is better by Hunter. I'd rather Hunter for 2 than Ross for 3.

    Hunter is not Cam as Cam did not have the consistency Hunter does over the last 7 or 8 yrs.

    BTW there is no Beltre available this year no FA is an Adrian Beltre type.

    Alol FA signings will be 1 or 2 years maybe a three by the RS.

    The only Beltre close is Hamilton but I do not consider him as good because of injuries over the past few years. I also see him only getting 4 yrs max. anything longer is a major gamble.

    [/QUOTE]


    id hamilton could be had for 3 years and between 20-25M Id do it.

     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from Sheriff-Rojas. Show Sheriff-Rojas's posts

    Re: Filling the gaps with patch contracts - a la Beltre

    Thanks for the contributions to the thread, folks.  Good points were made that Beltre may not be an apt comparison to what's available right now.  Let's think of the Beltre deal as the ideal.

    While Hunter may not be a recovery contract, he may not be a wheelchair contract either.  The risk that he tanks is still a lot less than the probability that a default alternative like Posednik or Ryan Kalish rakes.  Maybe I'm not seeing too many other options available to them, but I think the Red Sox should pursue Hunter aggressively for a hefty one year, or more balanced two-year deal.   Within reason, I'd also like to see Ross back.  With first and the corner outfield positions vacant, this lineup needs serious help.   While they may have to overpay, as teams often do with FAs, I see these players as filling a deep void without crippling the organization going forward.

     Even with decent upgrades at these postitions, I still have modest expectations for next season. But like many other fans, I don't want to watch another anemic offense out there again.  And who knows, with at least a decent lineup and defense, maybe there's a chance for an unexpected development and surprise from a pitcher that we don't forsee.  This is baseball, afterall.  The unforseen does happen like it did in 67 and even in 75 to a degree.  I can still dream.  These short term fixes make it at least possible, albeit still remote.  

     

     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from Joebreidey. Show Joebreidey's posts

    Re: Filling the gaps with patch contracts - a la Beltre

    It amazes me thinking back to 2011, that all this team had to do was to trade for a desecnt pitcher at the trade deadline and they would have won definitely one more game to propel themselves into the playoffs and maybe win the whole thing. Everyone would be happy, Tito would be the manager, Epstein the GM and he team would be intact and the disaster would never have happened.

    The problem with that hypothesis is that the requisite crystal ball that would've told us we needed one more win wasn't available at the time.  Were 10.5 up at that point.  We had just finished 3 months of playing .655, .640, and .769.  Had we acquired Jiminez for our top two prospects like CL did, and we finished 10.5 ahead, you'd have complained that we traded away the future for nothing.

    The NYY traded away a good young player for Berkman, who helped them finish 6 games ahead instead of 5.

    SF traded away a top prospect and still missed the playoffs.

     
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