Final Post and Thoughts on Historic Red Sox Season

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  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from Joebreidey. Show Joebreidey's posts

    Re: Final Post and Thoughts on Historic Red Sox Season

    Witnessing a team its management and ownership group which had built up a considerable cache of confidence, admiration and trustvolve into a loathesome, greedy and detestable group in what seemed like the blink of an eye.  I have never witnessed anything like it in my lifetime.

    I'm not sure why they are detestable, or any of the rest.

    The way I see it, the way they handled the departure of Tito was disgraceful, no disagreement there.

    Greedy?  Why, for adding seats?  For celebrating the 100th anniversary?  For signing FAs?  Isn't this what every team does?

     
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    Re: Final Post and Thoughts on Historic Red Sox Season

    "TRANSFORMATION", COMPLETED  !!!!!

     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from JimfromFlorida. Show JimfromFlorida's posts

    Re: Final Post and Thoughts on Historic Red Sox Season

    samclemens you may know the media and friends of yours who were upset with the RS this past season. However you obviously do not know or care to remember that the RS have since the current management team has consistently fielded the best team possible and have always brought in low risk high reward players.

    Kevin Millar, Gabe Kapler, Todd Walker, Bill Mueller, Mark Belhorn, Dave Roberts, Jay Payton, David Ortiz, Tony Graffanino, John Olerud, Alex Cora, Mark Loretta, Mike Lowell, Eric Henski, Bobby Keilty, Sean Casey, Mark Kotsay, Nick Green, Darnell Macdonald, and that does not include any pitchers. It is also not the complete list since 2003. The pitching staff generally has at least 3 or 4 new ones each year.

    They have also done everything to bring in the best available FA talent each year. I won't start listing them.

    Yes some work out and others don't in both cases high riskand low risk.

    You and your so called RS fans only are making your theories based upon this past year when NOTHING went right and pretty much every player played well below thier norms.

    So keep on thinking that the management team does not care and just wishes to line their pockets.

    See you and your so called RS fans have lived through a small blip of a bad season. Yes I know they have not madethe playoffs for 3 years. However they had very very good teams for two of those years that just fell short and this bad year.

    Try living through 40 of your 50+ years as a RS fan when you had 5 or 6 yrs where they had a shot and still came up short. I'm not including 1967 when they were 100 to 1 going into the season.

    So IMHO you know jacsh1t about what the owners are trying to do as well as how hard the players try to win every game.

     

     

     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from samclemens. Show samclemens's posts

    Re: Final Post and Thoughts on Historic Red Sox Season

    In response to JimfromFlorida's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    samclemens you may know the media and friends of yours who were upset with the RS this past season. However you obviously do not know or care to remember that the RS have since the current management team has consistently fielded the best team possible and have always brought in low risk high reward players.

    Kevin Millar, Gabe Kapler, Todd Walker, Bill Mueller, Mark Belhorn, Dave Roberts, Jay Payton, David Ortiz, Tony Graffanino, John Olerud, Alex Cora, Mark Loretta, Mike Lowell, Eric Henski, Bobby Keilty, Sean Casey, Mark Kotsay, Nick Green, Darnell Macdonald, and that does not include any pitchers. It is also not the complete list since 2003. The pitching staff generally has at least 3 or 4 new ones each year.

    They have also done everything to bring in the best available FA talent each year. I won't start listing them.

    Yes some work out and others don't in both cases high riskand low risk.

    You and your so called RS fans only are making your theories based upon this past year when NOTHING went right and pretty much every player played well below thier norms.

    So keep on thinking that the management team does not care and just wishes to line their pockets.

    See you and your so called RS fans have lived through a small blip of a bad season. Yes I know they have not madethe playoffs for 3 years. However they had very very good teams for two of those years that just fell short and this bad year.

    Try living through 40 of your 50+ years as a RS fan when you had 5 or 6 yrs where they had a shot and still came up short. I'm not including 1967 when they were 100 to 1 going into the season.

    So IMHO you know jacsh1t about what the owners are trying to do as well as how hard the players try to win every game.

    [/QUOTE]


    Sure looked to me like the Sox tried hard to win down the stretch against the Rays, Orioles and Yankees.  Buchholz and Dice K really looked to me they were focused and ready to end the season on a high note.  You should be grateful, Jim, that the Sox had as many opportunities as they did when you became a fan.  Many of my contemporaries and I were born and in college before the Sox won a pennant or even finished above 3rd place and their predecessors waited 28 years for a pennant.   I do not deny that the position players did not try hard to win every game.  They were simply overmatched.  I judge the current state of the ownership on their actions rather than what they did in the past, their words and actions and since the end of the 2011 season, there appeared "to me" to be a disconnect between the latter two.  There is no right opinion or wrong one, but in the words of Mark Twain, "How empty is theory in the presence of fact?"

     

     

     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from seabeachfred. Show seabeachfred's posts

    Re: Final Post and Thoughts on Historic Red Sox Season

    In response to Joebreidey's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Witnessing a team its management and ownership group which had built up a considerable cache of confidence, admiration and trustvolve into a loathesome, greedy and detestable group in what seemed like the blink of an eye.  I have never witnessed anything like it in my lifetime.

    I'm not sure why they are detestable, or any of the rest.

    The way I see it, the way they handled the departure of Tito was disgraceful, no disagreement there.

    Greedy?  Why, for adding seats?  For celebrating the 100th anniversary?  For signing FAs?  Isn't this what every team does?

    [/QUOTE]


    Come on Joe and wake up to the new reality. Maybe greedy is debatable even though they seem to be more concerned with making money than winning the past few years--and they have been very good at doing both, making money and not winning. However, loathsome and destestable fit these turds perfectly.  This stuff about continuous sellouts is a big crock and phony as a three dollar bill, and Lucchino's doublespeak and self-serving reunions to deflect from the hideous play on the field and the miserable work of the GM is both loathsome and detestable.  Larry the Lizard knows as much about baseball as the village idiot and what he does know about baseball ops could be put on the head of a pin with enough room for the Constitution of the United States----in other words zippo.  He is a total phony, a flim flam man supreme and a rotten lying human being.  He has too much power and he doesn't know how to use it .

     

    Whatever good will this ownership garnered their first six years  has been completely obliterated and they are now seen as a pack of wharf rats scurrying around  trying to find cover in the form of one lame excuse after another.  As for you Joe, please.  It's getting old you carrying the wood and water for these guys.  We need changes in the front office and if not then new ownership.  These bums have driven our team into the ground.

     

     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from seabeachfred. Show seabeachfred's posts

    Re: Final Post and Thoughts on Historic Red Sox Season

    In response to JimfromFlorida's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    samclemens you may know the media and friends of yours who were upset with the RS this past season. However you obviously do not know or care to remember that the RS have since the current management team has consistently fielded the best team possible and have always brought in low risk high reward players.

    Kevin Millar, Gabe Kapler, Todd Walker, Bill Mueller, Mark Belhorn, Dave Roberts, Jay Payton, David Ortiz, Tony Graffanino, John Olerud, Alex Cora, Mark Loretta, Mike Lowell, Eric Henski, Bobby Keilty, Sean Casey, Mark Kotsay, Nick Green, Darnell Macdonald, and that does not include any pitchers. It is also not the complete list since 2003. The pitching staff generally has at least 3 or 4 new ones each year.

    They have also done everything to bring in the best available FA talent each year. I won't start listing them.

    Yes some work out and others don't in both cases high riskand low risk.

    You and your so called RS fans only are making your theories based upon this past year when NOTHING went right and pretty much every player played well below thier norms.

    So keep on thinking that the management team does not care and just wishes to line their pockets.

    See you and your so called RS fans have lived through a small blip of a bad season. Yes I know they have not madethe playoffs for 3 years. However they had very very good teams for two of those years that just fell short and this bad year.

    Try living through 40 of your 50+ years as a RS fan when you had 5 or 6 yrs where they had a shot and still came up short. I'm not including 1967 when they were 100 to 1 going into the season.

    So IMHO you know jacsh1t about what the owners are trying to do as well as how hard the players try to win every game.

     

     

    [/QUOTE]


    Jim, with all due respect I don't know what I need most, a voilin or a shovel.  Look, I know you are a long time suffering Red Sox fan and this season reminds you of some of the bad days past.  I am not one of those long timers.  I started following them in late 2000 and I am not used to seeing this kind of crud on the field, nor as I used to seeing a bunch of flim flam incomeptents cooking the books to show we still have a streak of sellouts which anyone with any grey matter knows is a canard.  You mention the players the Red Sox have brought in to augment their stars and how successful that has been, but close look at that list shows conclusively that almost all of them came between 2002 and 2008.  Who came after?  Darling Darnell.  That guy was so good that as soon as we finally released him after a long two and a half years the Yankees grabbed him and then set him adrift with two weeks.  Some talent.

    What about some of the "gems" we been stuck with in the past three years--Jenks, Cameron, Hottovoy, Gathright, Bonsere, Hermida, Kotteras, Pena (oops he was earlier and also stunk), Spears, Wheeler, etc.  The list goes on and on.  Our team is not going to revive and prosper until there is a deliniation of power with each person in charge of a certain facet of the team and having the baseball inept Lucchino with his palsied and grimy hads in every piece of the pie.

    We have the Janitor (Cherington) as GM who has shown really nothing in talent evaluation nor in his abiity to sign quality players save Ross, and I wouldn't be surprised if he blows his resigning this winter.  The team right now stinks and the front office is fully responsible for this disgusting turning of events.

     

     

     
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  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from JimfromFlorida. Show JimfromFlorida's posts

    Re: Final Post and Thoughts on Historic Red Sox Season

    sea it amazing that so many like you based upon one season think this management team suks and is only in it for the money. Yes they want a return on their investment but they unlike many teams puts a ton of money beck into the team. Fenway was a rats home when I left Boston 18 yrs ago. Today it a far better place.

    They have consistently put the best available talent on the field. As stated not all work out. You mentioned some. I never said they all were succesful and I mostly listed those prior to 2008 to disprove sam's contention.

     I was pointing out to sam that they have always done low risk high reward players which he thought was dumb. Some signings work others don't it is a fact. To only list what supports your theory is just wrong and can easily make one look like a fool.

    The FO is responsible but to say they suk based upon one year and not the full compliment of what they have done is wrong. Yes they made mistakes but the team flat out did not perform to anywhere near to any of the players averages except for a few.

    This year was bad but only looking at this year is dumb IMHO. You need to look at the history of the management team. I see a successful team that just made some mistakes and players did not work out.

     

    He11 I believe the trading of Agon, CC and Beckett was a major mistake just as I thought not signing Paps was.

     
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    Re: Final Post and Thoughts on Historic Red Sox Season

    The team has never been more of a need of an entire facelift.

     
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  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from samclemens. Show samclemens's posts

    Re: Final Post and Thoughts on Historic Red Sox Season

    In response to FenwayJimmy's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Once again, Joe Breidy is the voice of reason. Too bad that the forum doesn't have ten more of him.

    [/QUOTE]


    I agree with you FenwayJimmy and tip my cap to fans like Joe and JimInFlorida for questioning an outsider's opinions on the current state of "their franchise."  Far too many so-called fans and members of the media look for opportunities to criticize and complain rather than having the patience to accept what they cannot change and be cautiously optimistic about the future that they will ultimately do the right thing because they have in the not so distant past.   Voices of reason are indeed a vanishing breed.  

     
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  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from Joebreidey. Show Joebreidey's posts

    Re: Final Post and Thoughts on Historic Red Sox Season

    In response to seabeachfred's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to Joebreidey's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Witnessing a team its management and ownership group which had built up a considerable cache of confidence, admiration and trustvolve into a loathesome, greedy and detestable group in what seemed like the blink of an eye.  I have never witnessed anything like it in my lifetime.

    I'm not sure why they are detestable, or any of the rest.

    The way I see it, the way they handled the departure of Tito was disgraceful, no disagreement there.

    Greedy?  Why, for adding seats?  For celebrating the 100th anniversary?  For signing FAs?  Isn't this what every team does?

    [/QUOTE]


    Come on Joe and wake up to the new reality. Maybe greedy is debatable even though they seem to be more concerned with making money than winning the past few years--and they have been very good at doing both, making money and not winning. However, loathsome and destestable fit these turds perfectly.  This stuff about continuous sellouts is a big crock and phony as a three dollar bill, and Lucchino's doublespeak and self-serving reunions to deflect from the hideous play on the field and the miserable work of the GM is both loathsome and detestable.  Larry the Lizard knows as much about baseball as the village idiot and what he does know about baseball ops could be put on the head of a pin with enough room for the Constitution of the United States----in other words zippo.  He is a total phony, a flim flam man supreme and a rotten lying human being.  He has too much power and he doesn't know how to use it .

     

    Whatever good will this ownership garnered their first six years  has been completely obliterated and they are now seen as a pack of wharf rats scurrying around  trying to find cover in the form of one lame excuse after another.  As for you Joe, please.  It's getting old you carrying the wood and water for these guys.  We need changes in the front office and if not then new ownership.  These bums have driven our team into the ground.

     

    [/QUOTE]

    Again, that's all fluff.  For better or worse, my mind doesn't work that way.  I think the way they parted with tito last year was despicable.  That to me is fairly objective.

    If you have anything objective, let me know.  Saying that LL doesn't know as much as Theo doesn't make him despicable.  Losing Ellsbury and Crawford to injuries this year doesn't make him despicable.

     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from Joebreidey. Show Joebreidey's posts

    Re: Final Post and Thoughts on Historic Red Sox Season

    The FO is responsible but to say they suk based upon one year and not the full compliment of what they have done is wrong. Yes they made mistakes but the team flat out did not perform to anywhere near to any of the players averages except for a few.

    This year was bad but only looking at this year is dumb IMHO. You need to look at the history of the management team. I see a successful team that just made some mistakes and players did not work out.

     

    He11 I believe the trading of Agon, CC and Beckett was a major mistake just as I thought not signing Paps was.

    The biggest problem with this thread is that people are equating success with being nice, and being unsuccessful with being despicable.  Seriously, did these people think that Larry was cute and cuddly when we traded for Schilling, but despicable when we traded for Wily MO?  Was he up for the Nobel Peace Prize when he acquired Gonzo and CC, but guilty of war crimes when those two guys didn't work out quite so well?

    Do we have to wait to see if Rubby and Webster work out until we decide whether Ben is nice or not nice?  Sorry, but we can't commingle competence and likeability.

    I really like the Big Dump.  You don't like it.  If you're wrong, will it mean you are no longer a nice guy?

     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from GoUconn13. Show GoUconn13's posts

    Re: Final Post and Thoughts on Historic Red Sox Season

    Well, if Boston was healthy, and didnt make into the playoff, I would be all over the manager, GM, owners, etc.

    But with so many different injuries at the same time starting rotation isnt as strong as they were in the past from day one to the end of the season, I was glad it was over cuz I knew Boston wouldnt have any chance to win the WS titles anyway. 

     

     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from neils4pool. Show neils4pool's posts

    Re: Final Post and Thoughts on Historic Red Sox Season

    In response to Joebreidey's commen  The mediocre will always revert to the mean.


    [QUOTE]

    Witnessing a team its management and ownership group which had built up a considerable cache of confidence, admiration and trustvolve into a loathesome, greedy and detestable group in what seemed like the blink of an eye.  I have never witnessed anything like it in my lifetime.

    I'm not sure why they are detestable, or any of the rest.

    The way I see it, the way they handled the departure of Tito was disgraceful, no disagreement there.

    Greedy?  Why, for adding seats?  For celebrating the 100th anniversary?  For signing FAs?  Isn't this what every team does?

    [/QUOTE]


     
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  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from SonicsMonksLyresVicars. Show SonicsMonksLyresVicars's posts

    Re: Final Post and Thoughts on Historic Red Sox Season

    In response to samclemens' comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to FenwayJimmy's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Once again, Joe Breidy is the voice of reason. Too bad that the forum doesn't have ten more of him.

    [/QUOTE]


    I agree with you FenwayJimmy and tip my cap to fans like Joe and JimInFlorida for questioning an outsider's opinions on the current state of "their franchise."  Far too many so-called fans and members of the media look for opportunities to criticize and complain rather than having the patience to accept what they cannot change and be cautiously optimistic about the future that they will ultimately do the right thing because they have in the not so distant past.   Voices of reason are indeed a vanishing breed.  

    [/QUOTE]


    Pike?

     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from samclemens. Show samclemens's posts

    Re: Final Post and Thoughts on Historic Red Sox Season

    In response to SonicsMonksLyresVicars's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to samclemens' comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to FenwayJimmy's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Once again, Joe Breidy is the voice of reason. Too bad that the forum doesn't have ten more of him.

    [/QUOTE]


    I agree with you FenwayJimmy and tip my cap to fans like Joe and JimInFlorida for questioning an outsider's opinions on the current state of "their franchise."  Far too many so-called fans and members of the media look for opportunities to criticize and complain rather than having the patience to accept what they cannot change and be cautiously optimistic about the future that they will ultimately do the right thing because they have in the not so distant past.   Voices of reason are indeed a vanishing breed.  

    [/QUOTE]


    Pike?

    [/QUOTE]


    A peak in Colorado named after the explorer who discovered it (first name was Zebulon).  Off the top of my head those are the only "Pikes" with which I am familiar.   It's also an abbreviated term for highways in certain states which generally are toll roads.   Other than that, I cannot help you. 

     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from seabeachfred. Show seabeachfred's posts

    Re: Final Post and Thoughts on Historic Red Sox Season

    In response to FenwayJimmy's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Once again, Joe Breidy is the voice of reason. Too bad that the forum doesn't have ten more of him.

    [/QUOTE]


    Sorry Jim, I think you want to be made to feel good and be tranquilized but the bitter truth is that our team right now is in deep serious do-do and the worst thing for any Red Sox fan, writer or media person is to put their heads in the sand and pretend that this bad situation doesn't exist.  Sorry to say, it does.

     

     
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  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from southpaw777. Show southpaw777's posts

    Re: Final Post and Thoughts on Historic Red Sox Season

    In response to seabeachfred's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to FenwayJimmy's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Once again, Joe Breidy is the voice of reason. Too bad that the forum doesn't have ten more of him.

    [/QUOTE]


    Sorry Jim, I think you want to be made to feel good and be tranquilized but the bitter truth is that our team right now is in deep serious do-do and the worst thing for any Red Sox fan, writer or media person is to put their heads in the sand and pretend that this bad situation doesn't exist.  Sorry to say, it does.

     

    [/QUOTE]


    I think he is recognizing the problem, just deciding to be more reasonable about it. It is a bad situation, no doubt. Nobody has denied that. The FO have made some bad decisions the last couple years, players have underperformed, and many many injuries. I think the big trade signaled the start of correcting those bad decisions.

    This FO has also spent a boatload of cash to make Fenway a better experience, upped the payroll to the max, and helped bring this city 2 WSC after 86 years.

    Now its time to see where they go from here. Do they repeat those mistakes, or have they learned from them?

    Some here forget that these guys make mistakes like all of us. Heck, Pedey made one mistake calling out his manager while sticking up for his teammate/friend after he was called out in ST, and some here now cant stand him. Why? Is he not allowed to make one mistake? Can he not learn and grow from that experience? Some here go a little overboard with things IMO. Just because some of us are a little more reasonable about things doesnt mean were blind to the mistakes and bad decisions.

    People are just trying to place blame when the reality is there is plenty of it to go around. From ownership right down to the player on the field. problem is some here are short sighted. The same guys in the FO you say should be fired are the same ones that helped bring this city 2 WSC.

    Yea, everything that could, did go wrong this year. Now that they have basically started over, Ill hold judgement and see what they do this winter. Thats the only way we will see if they have truly learned from their mistakes.

     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from BostonTrollSpanker. Show BostonTrollSpanker's posts

    Re: Final Post and Thoughts on Historic Red Sox Season

    Allow me to poke some holes in this...

    "In response to FenwayJimmy's comment: Once again, Joe Breidy is the voice of reason. Too bad that the forum doesn't have ten more of him."

    Breidy is great but we don't need a bunch of people in here agreeing with each other. That's not a discussion.

    "I agree with you FenwayJimmy"

    You mean Pike - he and his many identities have been a drag on the discourse in the forum for years. Fortunately he is easily ignored. 

    "and tip my cap to fans like Joe and JimInFlorida for questioning an outsider's opinions on the current state of "their franchise."

    Many fans feel the same way or very similarly. Deal with it. Fans make an emotional and financial investment in the team. How the ownership and management have handled this trust between fan and ownership is, frankly, on the verge of disgraceful, it's certainly worthy of debate. Did you read the condescending letter Lucchino sent to fans this summer? "Fenway Pike" is one of the few who is still sucking on the Fenway exhaust pipe. 

    "Far too many so-called fans and members of the media look for opportunities to criticize"

    The media serves up what the fans want to read. The fans get the media they deserve.

    "and complain rather than having the patience to accept what they cannot change"

    And that's where you're totally and completely wrong. Fans absolutely have the power to change how this team is run. In fact, Theo's quotes about ownership pressure to sign big name free agents, which he called "feeding the monster," refers specifically to the phenomena of fan expectations about their team and the ownership's perception of how to cater to those fans. So yes, they feel the pressure from fans. Fans can vote with their wallets (attendance), but more importantly, they vote with their eyeballs (TV ratings). There's no doubt TV ratings are declining for the Sox and will continue to decline. The challenge for ownership is to realize that fans aren't as celebrity-addicted as they think. They want a team that plays hard with players they relate to. They want a coherent management philosophy, not the chaos of the GM wanting to hire one manager and the ownership wanting another and a mess of a coaching staff that the manager didn't want in the first place. 

    If fans see those things from the team, they'll buy in with their hearts, minds, and wallets. If they don't, then fans have the power to opt out of that relationship, which is part of the pressure that led to the ill-fated Crawford and Gonzalez signings. 

    So you may think fans like me are negative but it's you and Fenway/Pike that are the true negatives, because you undermine the belief in your own collective power as fans to have an impact on the direction of the franchise. Mindlessly supporting this ownership and accepting the propaganda hook, line, and sinker, you then turn your attention to so-called "negative" fans, many of whom are looking to change the situation for the better and make their voices heard. Enjoy the Fenway "living museum" and losing seasons with FenwayJimmy, the rest of us will push for a team we can believe in.

     

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