Finally,some good news for Red Sox fans concerning Lackey

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from WesternOregon. Show WesternOregon's posts

    Re: Finally,some good news for Red Sox fans concerning Lackey

    Ahhhh Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha...a belly laugh is good some times.

    Just what the Padres need!


    Let's see, they struggle to score runs BUT they want a pitcher (who at best) has a terrible ERA. Now I know San Diego has a pitcher friendly park but there's not a single offense in the NL that won't feast on John Lackey.

     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from RSF4Life234. Show RSF4Life234's posts

    Re: Finally,some good news for Red Sox fans concerning Lackey

    In Response to Re: Finally,some good news for Red Sox fans concerning Lackey:
    [QUOTE]Ahhhh Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha...a belly laugh is good some times. Just what the Padres need! Let's see, they struggle to score runs BUT they want a pitcher (who at best) has a terrible ERA. Now I know San Diego has a pitcher friendly park but there's not a single offense in the NL that won't feast on John Lackey.
    Posted by WesternOregon[/QUOTE]

    Hes a fly ball pitcher, i was down there this summer that park is perfect for him.
     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from SpacemanEephus. Show SpacemanEephus's posts

    Re: Finally,some good news for Red Sox fans concerning Lackey

    In Response to Re: Finally,some good news for Red Sox fans concerning Lackey:
    [QUOTE]Ahhhh Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha...a belly laugh is good some times. Just what the Padres need! Let's see, they struggle to score runs BUT they want a pitcher (who at best) has a terrible ERA. Now I know San Diego has a pitcher friendly park but there's not a single offense in the NL that won't feast on John Lackey.
    Posted by WesternOregon[/QUOTE]

    I don't think you have been watching much NL West ball lately.  Lackey, in that division, in those parks, will have a sub 4 ERA and win 15+ games.  And people here will be weeping and gnashing teeth, not understanding the difference between AL East and NL West.  
     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from mrmojo1120. Show mrmojo1120's posts

    Re: Finally,some good news for Red Sox fans concerning Lackey

    In Response to Re: Finally,some good news for Red Sox fans concerning Lackey:
    [QUOTE]Ahhhh Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha...a belly laugh is good some times. Just what the Padres need! Let's see, they struggle to score runs BUT they want a pitcher (who at best) has a terrible ERA. Now I know San Diego has a pitcher friendly park but there's not a single offense in the NL that won't feast on John Lackey.
    Posted by WesternOregon[/QUOTE]

     A change of scenery might be beneficial for him,especially if he's working with his old pitching coach Bud Black.He'd probably feel more comfortable back on the West coast and the Padres would be paying very little for his services.
     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from dollkuhn. Show dollkuhn's posts

    Re: Finally,some good news for Red Sox fans concerning Lackey

    If we dump him, I will believe in the power of prayer again!Cool
     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from maxnsl. Show maxnsl's posts

    Re: Finally,some good news for Red Sox fans concerning Lackey

    I really dont think you can have Lackey and Beckett on the same team. They enable each other and cause friction on the team. Thats why you dont bring him to ST
     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from trouts. Show trouts's posts

    Re: Finally,some good news for Red Sox fans concerning Lackey

    In Response to Re: Finally,some good news for Red Sox fans concerning Lackey:
    [QUOTE]  Lackey's ERA of 6.41 is the worst EVER by a Red Sox pitcher who went over 130 innings in their 103 years of existence.EVER.That's historically horrible.Add that to his displays of disgust with his teammates while he's pitching,his unwillingness to accept responsibility for his own failures and showing up Francona when he was being pulled from a game and any way you can get him off the roster without paying 100% of his salary is a plus.I won't even mention his off the field issues.No matter who replaces him in the starting rotation,it'll be an upgrade in talent and attitude.How can it be any worse?    Some players can't handle playing in the Boston market and Lackey has shown that he's one of them with his results and actions.If he's still in a Red Sox uniform next year,he'll be absolutely crucified by fans and media alike.It'll be like Julio Lugo times 5.   Like it or not,or whether you think it's fair,he's become the poster child for the 2011 Red Sox collapse.  
    Posted by mrmojo1120[/QUOTE]
    Nice post. Lackey's 82 million dollar contract was a hugh mistake and everyone in baseball knows it. Sure, eating over half of that contract would leave a lasting, bitter taste, but it's time to move on. His pitching was awful and I also hated it when he would show up teammates on the field. It's one of those addition by subtraction deals where I you unload somebody who has poisonned the atmosphere in the clubhouse and among the fans.
     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from Spartacus2011. Show Spartacus2011's posts

    Re: Finally,some good news for Red Sox fans

    In Response to Re: Finally,some good news for Red Sox fans:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Finally,some good news for Red Sox fans : Like so many refrained posts about how Tito and Theo were great because the Sox won two WS while they were "in the chair", this one fails once again to distinguish cause from effect. THEO WAS AROUND FOR THE WS WINS, BUT HE DID NOT PLAY THE GAMES. HE WAS, ON THE OTHER HAND, DIRECTLY RESPONSIBLE (DIRECT CAUSATION) FOR SIGNING A LOT OF UNPERFORMING PLAYERS. THAT IS THE ONLY MEASURE OF HIS SUCCESS/FAILURE. HE DID HAVE SOME SUCCESSES, BUT HE HAD A LOT OF REAL FAILURES. ON BALANCE, HARDLY A WONDERKID.
    Posted by pschuller[/QUOTE]

    In other words, Theo Epstein s^cked as a GM
     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from OnDeckCircle. Show OnDeckCircle's posts

    Re: Finally,some good news for Red Sox fans concerning Lackey

    Even if John Henry eats the rest of Lackey's contract, it won't be any worse than a hedge fund loss for him.     It's addition by subtraction.
    Even season ticket holders that wouldn't show up because Lackey was scheduled to pitch will now show up and spend money at the beer and concession stands which by itself will help to pay for eating some of Lackey's contract.
    John Henry is a clever businessman.
     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from WesternOregon. Show WesternOregon's posts

    Re: Finally,some good news for Red Sox fans concerning Lackey

    In Response to Re: Finally,some good news for Red Sox fans concerning Lackey:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Finally,some good news for Red Sox fans concerning Lackey : I don't think you have been watching much NL West ball lately.  Lackey, in that division, in those parks, will have a sub 4 ERA and win 15+ games.  And people here will be weeping and gnashing teeth, not understanding the difference between AL East and NL West.  
    Posted by SpacemanEephus[/QUOTE]

    Can we quote you on these facts?
     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from UticaClub. Show UticaClub's posts

    Re: Finally,some good news for Red Sox fans

    In Response to Re: Finally,some good news for Red Sox fans:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Finally,some good news for Red Sox fans : Totally agree.  So we pay Lackey to pitch for SD for 3 years and take on a 6 million dollar contract for our new backup 2B and this is exciting?  This is the kind of offer that is out there and that is why the best thing to do is bring him back, hope all this BS has motivated him and let him be the 5th starter.  What is the risk, that trade value gets worse?
    Posted by Thesemenarecowards[/QUOTE]

    JUST A SEA OF COWARDS


     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from SpacemanEephus. Show SpacemanEephus's posts

    Re: Finally,some good news for Red Sox fans concerning Lackey

    In Response to Re: Finally,some good news for Red Sox fans concerning Lackey:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Finally,some good news for Red Sox fans concerning Lackey : Can we quote you on these facts?
    Posted by WesternOregon[/QUOTE]
     You can quote me on these 'prognostications', yes.  I stand behind all my space words.
     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from hill55. Show hill55's posts

    Re: Finally,some good news for Red Sox fans concerning Lackey

    John Lackey's 2011 ERA of 6.42 might be the least of his drawbacks. Lackey's value to the Red Sox could be lessened by the public perception -- fair or not -- on his impact on team's brand. If anything goes awry in 2012, Lackey might be an easy scapegoat, fair or not.
     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from Thesemenarecowards. Show Thesemenarecowards's posts

    Re: Finally,some good news for Red Sox fans concerning Lackey

    In Response to Re: Finally,some good news for Red Sox fans concerning Lackey:
    [QUOTE]Even if John Henry eats the rest of Lackey's contract, it won't be any worse than a hedge fund loss for him.     It's addition by subtraction. Even season ticket holders that wouldn't show up because Lackey was scheduled to pitch will now show up and spend money at the beer and concession stands which by itself will help to pay for eating some of Lackey's contract. John Henry is a clever businessman.
    Posted by OnDeckCircle[/QUOTE]

    In 2009 when the Red Sox finally decided that Julio Lugo was a "sunk cost" and they decided to eat the final 1 1/2 of his contract, we ended up with healthy dose of Nick Green for the remainder of the 2009 season.  In 2010 we got Scutaro, who is adequate but because there was already 9 million committed to Lugo in 2010, the Red Sox were not going to be aggressive at the SS position.

    My point being, if the Red Sox are going to pay Lackey 10 million to play somewhere else it better be because they plan on filling that roster spot with a better pitcher, not simply because they don't want Lackey.  If they are going to pay him to play elsewhere but then cut corners to replace him, thus creating a lose lose scenario, I'm of the opinion he is more valuable to the team on the roster at 15 million than off the roster at 10 million.

    All the "he must go for his behavior this year" talk is foolish.  You don't make a move that hurts the roster and further hamstrings the team financially, simply to make a statement to the rest of the team or the fans or whoever else. 

    If you'll allow me to paraphrase  "This isn't the California penal league, Vaughn.  We're professionals and we don't trade players for personal reasons.  So cut the cry baby S***."   Jake Taylor (sort of).
     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from fivekatz. Show fivekatz's posts

    Re: Finally,some good news for Red Sox fans concerning Lackey

    In Response to Re: Finally,some good news for Red Sox fans concerning Lackey:
    [QUOTE]John Lackey's 2011 ERA of 6.42 might be the least of his drawbacks. Lackey's value to the Red Sox could be lessened by the public perception -- fair or not -- on his impact on team's brand. If anything goes awry in 2012, Lackey might be an easy scapegoat, fair or not.
    Posted by hill55[/QUOTE]This seems to be the main point with Lackey.

    The chances are pretty high that Lackey pitched through issues with his elbow all year. DL trip and cortisone are clues. How bad the ERA was is another.

    He could be better next year but this market has mad him target number one and there is nothing we have ever seen about his public persona to think he will turn that around.

    In a market where guys get dumped on in the middle of great years when they slump, the poster child of all that is wrong with the RS fate in 2011 will never be given the elbow room to an effective middle of the rotation guy here again.

    Even if he could change, the media and fans here never really will. If anything the market was a little more charming when we all thought we were victims of some kind of curse.
     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from WesternOregon. Show WesternOregon's posts

    Re: Finally,some good news for Red Sox fans concerning Lackey

    Be prepared for John Lackey to live out his tenure in MLB wearing a Red Sox uniform. Baseball is not about finding scapegoats as you might suggest. It is a game settled on a diamond where winners and losers emerge.


    The run at the top of the AL East is over.

    Face it.

    Scapegoat as much as you like. The FACT is that scapegoating an old testament practice that no longer holds any usefulness today.
     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from UticaClub. Show UticaClub's posts

    Re: Finally,some good news for Red Sox fans concerning Lackey

    Since this goat is sent away to perish,[8] the word "scapegoat" has come to mean a person who is blamed and punished for the sins, crimes or sufferings of others, generally as a way of distracting attention from the real causes.

    It still goes on today and especially in this forum. Posters are blaming segments of the whole instead of blaming the whole, collective problem. Some posters are blaming Tito, some are zeroing in on the clubhouse activities, some are blaming a lack of resolve, some say there is no leadership, some assign blame to Theo, and some blame the conditioning and coaches. The reality is that it was a little bit of each. It is human nature / forum nature however to single out a specific reason, person, theory and blame that ( scapegoat). It is the easy way out. The motto is to make it simple instead of complex. That goes over much better in a forum. Many here don't seem to grasp the concepts of scapegoating or 20-20 hindsight.
     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from OnDeckCircle. Show OnDeckCircle's posts

    Re: Finally,some good news for Red Sox fans concerning Lackey

    In Response to Re: Finally,some good news for Red Sox fans concerning Lackey:
    [QUOTE]Be prepared for John Lackey to live out his tenure in MLB wearing a Red Sox uniform. Baseball is not about finding scapegoats as you might suggest. It is a game settled on a diamond where winners and losers emerge. The run at the top of the AL East is over. Face it. Scapegoat as much as you like. The FACT is that scapegoating an old testament practice that no longer holds any usefulness today.
    Posted by WesternOregon[/QUOTE]

    Makes sense but as long as Lackey can put up with heavy booing and rants from the paying customers through 2014 and John Henry is happy signing his checks on the 1st and 15th of each month ........ then OK.
    Not so sure John Henry is happy about paying Manny Ramirez $1.9 million + interest every July 1st through the year 2026 which was the agreement of the deferred payment plan from the previous ownership when Manny originally signed.
    By 2026, beers at concession stands should be about $23.00 with adjustment for inflation.
     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from WesternOregon. Show WesternOregon's posts

    Re: Finally,some good news for Red Sox fans concerning Lackey

    In Response to Re: Finally,some good news for Red Sox fans concerning Lackey:
    [QUOTE]Since this goat is sent away to perish, [ 8 ] the word "scapegoat" has come to mean a person who is blamed and punished for the sins, crimes or sufferings of others, generally as a way of distracting attention from the real causes. It still goes on today and especially in this forum. Posters are blaming segments of the whole instead of blaming the whole, collective problem. Some posters are blaming Tito, some are zeroing in on the clubhouse activities, some are blaming a lack of resolve, some say there is no leadership, some assign blame to Theo, and some blame the conditioning and coaches. The reality is that it was a little bit of each. It is human nature / forum nature however to single out a specific reason, person, theory and blame that ( scapegoat). It is the easy way out. The motto is to make it simple instead of complex. That goes over much better in a forum. Many here don't seem to grasp the concepts of scapegoating or 20-20 hindsight.
    Posted by UticaClub[/QUOTE]

    It is better to be thought a fool then to post in a forum and remove all doubt. The wise will stop short of posting. The run is over in Boston so rejoice in our banners from 2004 and 2007. Move on...there's nothing to be seen here folks.

    Scapegoats in the old testament were led to the wilderness and never seen again.
     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from SpacemanEephus. Show SpacemanEephus's posts

    Re: Finally,some good news for Red Sox fans concerning Lackey

    In Response to Re: Finally,some good news for Red Sox fans concerning Lackey:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Finally,some good news for Red Sox fans concerning Lackey : It is better to be thought a fool then to post in a forum and remove all doubt. The wise will stop short of posting. The run is over in Boston so rejoice in our banners from 2004 and 2007. Move on...there's nothing to be seen here folks. Scapegoats in the old testament were led to the wilderness and never seen again.
    Posted by WesternOregon[/QUOTE]
     Good advice W.O.  Move on.  
     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from Teakus. Show Teakus's posts

    Re: Finally,some good news for Red Sox fans concerning Lackey

    The correct thing to do is KEEP LACKEY. This emotion based response to the issue is very distressing to me. Henry needs to put on his bigboy pants and stop listening to media driven solutions to last seasons collapse.Theo blew it badly for sure by giving Lackey a #1's pay when he's always been a number 3 or 4 pitcher. Okay....why not just be intelligent people using logic as our guide and simply name him our number 4 starter? He's clearly good enough for that, assuming his dreadful 1st season in Beantown wasn't injury related, and all teams need a number 4 starter. Does anyone think for one minute eating a huge contract like this will come without consequence to our team? Puleeeeeze! His value is at it's absolute lowest right now, and a wise investor NEVER sells an investment on the cheap. That's reserved for the panicky morons among us. Lack has NEVER been that bad, and I KNOW he'll be better next season. Why trade away next years American League's most improved player for peanuts?




    In Response to Finally,some good news for Red Sox fans concerning Lackey:
    [QUOTE]There may be light at the end of the tunnel.This is from an article on signonsandiego.com: http://www.signonsandiego.com/news/2011/oct/19/padres-exec-likely-heading-cubs-which-one/ The Padres have internally discussed the possibility of acquiring starting pitcher John Lackey from the Red Sox, if the Red Sox agree to eat most of Lackey’s contract. Lackey formerly pitched for Bud Black when the Padres manager was the Angels' pitching coach. Lackey, 32, was 12-12 with a 6.41 ERA in 28 starts for the Red Sox in 2011 and recently came under criticism for his actions during games in the Boston clubhouse while between starts. Lackey has three seasons to go plus a vesting option for 2015 on a five-year, $82.5 million contract
    Posted by mrmojo1120[/QUOTE]
     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from Thesemenarecowards. Show Thesemenarecowards's posts

    Re: Finally,some good news for Red Sox fans concerning Lackey

    In Response to Re: Finally,some good news for Red Sox fans concerning Lackey:
    [QUOTE]The correct thing to do is KEEP LACKEY. This emotion based response to the issue is very distressing to me. Henry needs to put on his bigboy pants and stop listening to media driven solutions to last seasons collapse.Theo blew it badly for sure by giving Lackey a #1's pay when he's always been a number 3 or 4 pitcher. Okay....why not just be intelligent people using logic as our guide and simply name him our number 4 starter? He's clearly good enough for that, assuming his dreadful 1st season in Beantown wasn't injury related, and all teams need a number 4 starter. Does anyone think for one minute eating a huge contract like this will come without consequence to our team? Puleeeeeze! His value is at it's absolute lowest right now, and a wise investor NEVER sells an investment on the cheap. That's reserved for the panicky morons among us. Lack has NEVER been that bad, and I KNOW he'll be better next season. Why trade away next years American League's most improved player for peanuts? In Response to Finally,some good news for Red Sox fans concerning Lackey :
    Posted by Teakus[/QUOTE]

    Pretty much what I've been saying.  I don't necessarily agree that Lackey is fine as a # 4 or that he will he comeback player of the year next year but I agree with the sell low sentiment and that paying Lackey to play elsewhere has consequences.

    Rational thought is definitely in the minority on this issue.
     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from SoxFanInIL. Show SoxFanInIL's posts

    Re: Finally,some good news for Red Sox fans concerning Lackey

    I would normally say let him return and possibly re-build value, maybe even be a servicable 5th starter, i.e. Matsuzaka. 

    Unfortunately, the Sox are in a very unique situation regarding PR, fan base, clubhouse issues, perception in the league, etc.  The Sox just lost their beloved Manager and their GM who accomplished things no other GM has in 100 years.  All people write about now is beer drinking, chicken and bad teammates.  A significant make-over is unavoidable.

    Lackey, like it or not, is the poster boy for the 2011 Sox.  Beckett was basically the Sox best pitcher.  He's not going anywhere.  Crawford can still be an excellent player- but he was not a bad teammate and his contract is unmovable.  He's not going anywhere.  Letting Ortiz, Varitek, Papelbon, and Wakefield walk may be good or bad, but doesnt do the job regarding the stain left behind from 2011.

    I believe the Sox have no choice but to make Lackey go away, possibly at any cost.  Its a horriffic waste of $, but there's no way around it.  And the sooner the better for the organization to move forward.
     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from fivekatz. Show fivekatz's posts

    Re: Finally,some good news for Red Sox fans concerning Lackey

    In Response to Re: Finally,some good news for Red Sox fans concerning Lackey:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Finally,some good news for Red Sox fans concerning Lackey : Pretty much what I've been saying.  I don't necessarily agree that Lackey is fine as a # 4 or that he will he comeback player of the year next year but I agree with the sell low sentiment and that paying Lackey to play elsewhere has consequences. Rational thought is definitely in the minority on this issue.
    Posted by Thesemenarecowards[/QUOTE]Yes it does but I am starting to believe that in terms of cost/benefit terms that eating $34M or so of John Lackey's contract ($11M per year) and taking back very low level prospects to be roster fillers at the farm level mat have merit. It seems a very likely outcome and it won't be about retribution, it will be about building the best team when balancing strict baseball concerns with chemistry and destractions accounted for.

    As for the idea that all is lost as a different poster believes, come on now, you are watching the Cardinals up one game in the WS. That says it all about how unpredictable this game is and why they play the seasons out. Heck closer to home, does anybody think the 2010-2011 Bruins were nearly the best built team in the NHL?

    You build a talented team, the best one you can with in the limits presented you and hope that its stays healthy enough long enough to get in the post season and gets hot once it gets there.

    Things really aren't half as dark as some think and they never were as bright as fans in Philly and Boston thought they were last March. 
     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from WesternOregon. Show WesternOregon's posts

    Re: Finally,some good news for Red Sox fans concerning Lackey

    Blah, blah, blah, blah, blah...
     

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