The problem is the Whole Team looks Sad. There is not one aspect to the season so far that would give any casual observer any hope. Yesterday's excuse was they ran into to hot teams at the wrong time. Maybe playing the Sox at this point will get any team "hot". The players are not performing any where near their norms and once again we will Kiss away another April. Thos team will have to pull off 10 game winning streaks several timesthis season just to stay in the race. Thank You Tito for getting Us another "Quick Start" out of the gate... You would have thought last season would have been a wakeup call But wait, it is only April !! Stop Chewing, Tito, and Start Jumping some AZZ !!
P.S. Has there ever been a shot on TV with Francona discussing the game with anybody in the dugout ??
Fire Francona
-
Re: Fire Francona
posted at 4/13/2011 3:27 PM EDT
- ALaGatorAL
- Posts: 2970
- First: 6/22/2008
- Last: 3/29/2013
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Re: Fire Francona
posted at 4/13/2011 3:27 PM EDT
- booksy
- Posts: 2
- First: 4/12/2011
- Last: 4/12/2011
Right on!
Last night Francona should have kept Matsuzaka in for the entie 9 innings, even if the Rays scored 50 runs (or more). And then both of them should have been given their unconditional release. -
Re: Fire Francona
posted at 4/13/2011 3:27 PM EDT
- SpacemanEephus
- Posts: 10639
- First: 6/6/2008
- Last: 6/19/2013
I have the feeling tito actually might have talked to Matsuzaka in the pen before last nights game and suggested that the strategy for the night should be to throw meatballs down the middle of the plate unless he felt like walking someone. What a moron. Who would do that? Worst manager ever. -
Re: Fire Francona
posted at 4/13/2011 3:27 PM EDT
- andrewmitch
- Posts: 16690
- First: 6/4/2005
- Last: 9/23/2012
He's the Barry Soetoro of the Red Sox; he's nothing more than a puppet for the puppet masters........ -
Re: Fire Francona
posted at 4/13/2011 3:27 PM EDT
- SpacemanEephus
- Posts: 10639
- First: 6/6/2008
- Last: 6/19/2013
In Response to Re: Fire Francona:In Response to Re: Fire Francona : Your right on "Lloyd"....it is all on Dice K, BUT, if many watching the game can see that Dice K is getting hammered, then why does Francona/Young still leave him in the game until he gives up 7 runs, and leaves 2 on before Francona/Young pull him. Its almost like Francona has made a decision that it was fruitless to try and win the game, after 2 innings. Very frustrating.
Posted by lucbomlucbom, those 7 runs came awfully quick. You can't just hook your guy, because you gotta take care of your bullpen arms. Sometimes you just have to leave it up to your starter, who clearly doesn't have anything, to knuckle down, man up, and fight to eat some innings. Daisuke didn't do that last night ... at all. It is damned if you do, damned if you don't in that situation because you don't want to burn through your pen in one night. -
Re: Fire Francona
posted at 4/13/2011 3:27 PM EDT
- maxbialystock
- Posts: 4477
- First: 6/8/2010
- Last: 6/19/2013
A silly OP--but I do agree that what is true of every MLB team is true for the Sox. If the team stays down, you can't fire the players, so you fire the manager. It is way, way too early for that possibility.
The pitching is horrendous. Not just the worst ERA in MLB, but the worst by 1.5 runs per game over the next worst pitching staff (Detroit's).
This should not be a huge surprise because the Sox pitching last year was 9th or 10th best in AL and all five starters are back, plus Papelbon, who had his worst season ever as the closer.
Right now, I think Lester, Beckett, and Buchholz will have good seasons. Ditto the bullpen trio of Pap, Bard, and Jenks and maybe a couple others. Bad as he looks, Lackey could come around. Matsuzaka will get another start or two before Theo makes a move.
And the hitting, which hasn't been as bad as the pitching but hasn't been that great either, should get a lot better. -
Re: Fire Francona
posted at 4/13/2011 3:27 PM EDT
- redsoxlaxer12
- Posts: 1157
- First: 8/20/2010
- Last: 2/7/2012
In Response to Re: Fire Francona:I just dont get it. When they win, Francona is no where to be mentioned. If they lose it's solely his fault. These tito convos are dumb. Red sox fans seem to be the only people that dont like him or think hes bad. Saying he had nothing to do with 04? If you gonna blame 08- present on tito you at least have to give him 04. Most of these arguments have no common sense or baseball knowledge in them anyway.
Posted by redsoxlaxer12wait never mind. Even if they win francona gets blamed for doing something wrong and is called luckey. Or better yet is blkamed for an "if they had lost". Well they didn't so STF.U -
Re: Fire Francona
posted at 4/13/2011 3:27 PM EDT
- royf19
- Posts: 8845
- First: 3/15/2009
- Last: 6/19/2013
In Response to Re: Fire Francona:In Response to Re: Fire Francona : lucbom, those 7 runs came awfully quick. You can't just hook your guy, because you gotta take care of your bullpen arms. Sometimes you just have to leave it up to your starter, who clearly doesn't have anything, to knuckle down, man up, and fight to eat some innings. Daisuke didn't do that last night ... at all. It is damned if you do, damned if you don't in that situation because you don't want to burn through your pen in one night.
Posted by SpacemanEephusAnd the one thing to add is you need to give the reliever time to warm up and get ready.The problem with all these critics is that they don't pay attention to what's going on around the league. They act like Francona is the only manager who tries to milk a starter as long as possible. They never name a manager who wouldn't do the same thing, because all you have to do is look up that team and see the same thing.For example, one idiot last year ripped Francona for taking out a starter after about 100 pitches in his first start. Then he went on about how Nolan Ryan was changing the culture in Texas and having their pitchers go longer. So I looked it up and what to you know — their pitchers had the same pitch counts as Boston's.If they would ever take their head out of their butts and learn something about the game, they'd realize how ignorant their posts are. -
Re: Fire Francona
posted at 4/13/2011 3:27 PM EDT
- booksy
- Posts: 2
- First: 4/12/2011
- Last: 4/12/2011
In Response to Fire Francona:At what point does Francona actually have to take some responsibilty for his losses? He doesn't manage games- he is perpetually managing the season. Sometimes you have to manage games. He does it in the postseason, but he's the worst game manager in baseball during the regular season. No bunts, no pinch hits, terrible pitching management. Since Schilling left we've looked like a bunch of undisciplined 4th graders out there. I'm beginning to think Schilling was Tito's brain. Starting McDonald in the 3rd game of the year on a team with Drew and Cameron on the bench. Letting Salty hit (he was like 0-10 at the time) in the 7th inning with two men on and 1 out in a 3-1 game, with Drew and Cameron on the bench. Waiting till Lackey had given up 9 runs to put Wake in. Waiting till Dice K had given up 7 runs and let two more get on base before putting Wake in. I could go on and on. All you have to do is watch one game to see moves he misses.
Posted by Scott8340 -
Re: Fire Francona
posted at 4/13/2011 3:27 PM EDT
- stinkman
- Posts: 1671
- First: 6/29/2010
- Last: 6/19/2013
you are only as good as your starting pitching but i agree the game managing has been puzzling at best. i am worried about salty i think he can not hit or handle this pitching staff. -
Re: Fire Francona
posted at 4/13/2011 3:27 PM EDT
- BOSOX1941
- Posts: 1744
- First: 6/3/2008
- Last: 6/19/2013
In Response to Re: Fire Francona:In Response to Re: Fire Francona : Really? There was no guidance down 3-0 to the Yankees in the ALCS, or in the world series sweep that followed? You don't think he guided the club deftly through that? You can't have it both ways. You think he should be held accountable when the teams loses, and that makes sense to me. Everyone involved is accountable. But, if that is the case, everyone is accountable when they win too.
Posted by SpacemanEephus
Where was the guidance when they went down 0-3? What did you see him do during the WS sweep that contributed to or changed a potential loss into a win?? He sat and spit. He had as much to do with that sweep as the bat boy did.
Do you firmly believe he ordered the Robert's steal?? It's more likely that Manny suggested it rather than Francona. -
Re: Fire Francona
posted at 4/13/2011 3:27 PM EDT
- LeroyBrownn
- Posts: 54
- First: 4/12/2011
- Last: 4/12/2011
What is Francona's nationality?
Is he Italian?
You rascists! -
Re: Fire Francona
posted at 4/13/2011 3:27 PM EDT
- eggplants
- Posts: 528
- First: 8/9/2012
- Last: 6/8/2013
Hey Lubcom, I think you've got something there. It goes to having a "feel" for the game, an attribute he never had in Phila. or in Boston. He can't feel the danger coming, he prays a lot. This is vintage Francona. -
Re: Fire Francona
posted at 4/13/2011 3:27 PM EDT
- REDSOX-11
- Posts: 555
- First: 4/2/2011
- Last: 5/9/2011
And he deserves 99% of it too.
In Response to Re: Fire Francona:In Response to Re: Fire Francona : I'll never understand the amount of blame Francona receives on this board.
Posted by mikeyinthebronx -
Re: Fire Francona
posted at 4/13/2011 4:55 PM EDT
- BOSOX1941
- Posts: 1744
- First: 6/3/2008
- Last: 6/19/2013
In Response to Re: Fire Francona:Francona also made a key decision in the 2007 ALCS. The Sox were down 2-1 to the Indians, and some were clamoring for Beckett to start on short rest, but Francona stayed with the plan, and the Sox won three in a row, beginning with a gem by Beckett, and went on to win the WS.
Posted by maxbialystock
Let's say I accept this as a good decision....ummm 2007??? -
Re: Fire Francona
posted at 4/13/2011 5:15 PM EDT
- REDSOX-11
- Posts: 555
- First: 4/2/2011
- Last: 5/9/2011
Has he made another correct decision since then? The team is dead under his leadership and he has lost the team despite what all his loyal backers are saying and telling us what a great manager he is. Not great, not good, not even average. He weak and the sox need a strong person leading this team. Mr softy didn't cut it last year and won't this year either. Unless the FO does something withing the next few days you can kiss this season goodby and hope they don't finish last in the AL east.
In Response to Re: Fire Francona:
[QUOTE]Francona also made a key decision in the 2007 ALCS. The Sox were down 2-1 to the Indians, and some were clamoring for Beckett to start on short rest, but Francona stayed with the plan, and the Sox won three in a row, beginning with a gem by Beckett, and went on to win the WS.
Posted by maxbialystock[/QUOTE] -
Re: Fire Francona
posted at 4/13/2011 5:19 PM EDT
- REDSOX-11
- Posts: 555
- First: 4/2/2011
- Last: 5/9/2011
Glad to see you are still around. This thread is probably the most important one of the whole forum. If this guy isn't replaced very soon we all will be saying wait til next year, after all our injured players return.
Oh wait that was last years excuse.
In Response to Re: Fire Francona:In Response to Re: Fire Francona : Let's say I accept this as a good decision....ummm 2007???
Posted by BOSOX1941 -
Re: Fire Francona
posted at 4/13/2011 8:27 PM EDT
- Hfxsoxnut
- Posts: 8698
- First: 5/30/2008
- Last: 6/19/2013
In Response to Fire Francona:Waiting till Lackey had given up 9 runs to put Wake in. Waiting till Dice K had given up 7 runs and let two more get on base before putting Wake in. I could go on and on. All you have to do is watch one game to see moves he misses.
Posted by Scott8340
In tonight's Baltimore-NYY game, Buck Showalter, the most brilliant manager in baseball history, didn't remove his starter Tillman until he had imploded, with 6 runs in and runners on second and third in the second inning.
HAPPENS TO THE BEST OF 'EM??? -
Re: Fire Francona
posted at 4/13/2011 8:47 PM EDT
- 1for89
- Posts: 633
- First: 4/2/2007
- Last: 9/9/2011
Why would you want to fire the manager of the
Best
Team
EV-AH!
?
http://www.nesn.com/2011/01/2011-red-sox-will-challenge-1927-yankees-for-title-of-greatest-team-in-major-league-history.html -
Re: Fire Francona
posted at 4/13/2011 8:49 PM EDT
- sunslav
- Posts: 1205
- First: 5/8/2009
- Last: 5/6/2011
In Response to Re: Fire Francona:Glad to see you are still around. This thread is probably the most important one of the whole forum. If this guy isn't replaced very soon we all will be saying wait til next year, after all our injured players return. Oh wait that was last years excuse. In Response to Re: Fire Francona :
Posted by REDSOX-11
Keep venting. It is good for you, Georom says so. Let it all hang out. It is also great for the forum since the forum thrives on negative talk. Many come here for this kind of talk. The Globe depends on hits to the forum and a cat fight is always productive. The forum would indeed be boring and unprofitable if everyone acted like a Red Sox fan. Keep up the negative talk, it sells. -
Re: Fire Francona
posted at 4/13/2011 9:10 PM EDT
- traven
- Posts: 3442
- First: 12/30/2009
- Last: 4/6/2013
The only comment I would have on replacing him is: you cannot fire the players, regardless of how poorly they are playing and they are indeed playing poorly - so that only leaves getting rid of Francona or Theo since nobody can fire management. With the talent on this team you shouldn't even need a manager. Crawford should be able to hit no matter where he is in the lineup. Six starters hitting below .200 is ridiculous and of course the fault of the manager. An astronomical ERA is a joke and of course the fault of the manager. The 2-9 start is terrible and of course the fault of the manager. So yes I have to agree - fire Francona and hire some unemployed genius sitting around waiting to be recognized as a real talent by the Sox management and let's get on with the season! -
Re: Fire Francona
posted at 4/13/2011 10:17 PM EDT
- royf19
- Posts: 8845
- First: 3/15/2009
- Last: 6/19/2013
In Response to Re: Fire Francona:In Response to Fire Francona : In tonight's Baltimore-NYY game, Buck Showalter, the most brilliant manager in baseball history, didn't remove his starter Tillman until he had imploded, with 6 runs in and runners on second and third in the second inning. HAPPENS TO THE BEST OF 'EM???
Posted by HfxsoxnutHey. Learn how to read stats. That didn't happen tonight. Stop making things up. You know that no other manager in baseball except for Francona would let that happen. Don't you ready the posts by baseballdr. or 1941. They'll tell you. Only Francona doesn't know when to replace a pitcher. Showalter would have seen is starter struggling and would have replaced him earlier.Go read the boxscore again. It probably wasn't up to date. There were probably five or six pitcher in the game during that span, because there's no way any manager in baseball would let one pitcher give up all those runs. -
Re: Fire Francona
posted at 4/13/2011 10:29 PM EDT
- xorsed
- Posts: 76
- First: 12/14/2010
- Last: 11/3/2011
Anybody see what happened to Arizona's pitcher tonight? He's given up 8 runs in two innings and is STILL in the game (at least when I wrote this).
There goes the theory Tito is the only one. -
Re: Fire Francona
posted at 4/13/2011 11:07 PM EDT
- drewyou
- Posts: 107
- First: 9/16/2007
- Last: 7/28/2011
In Response to Re: Fire Francona:In Response to Re: Fire Francona : Same here..the amount of threads on this subject is ridiculous..
Posted by southpaw777
I agree. Francona doesn't pitch, hit, field, run the bases, etc. This team is not playing well...that's it. Francona has 2 WS Rings as Manager. It is not his fault. The team chemistry may be the issue. The new guys, Crawford, Agon, Salty may not have earned the complete trust of the veterans on the team. I don't know. The pitching has been off also. Again, new pitching coach...maybe communications is awry. There are issues, but Francona is not the problem. -
Re: Fire Francona
posted at 4/14/2011 3:27 AM EDT
- kimsaysthis
- Posts: 4801
- First: 4/14/2010
- Last: 2/26/2013
Go fire yourself.