Fire Francona

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from BOSOX1941. Show BOSOX1941's posts

    Re: Fire Francona

    In Response to Re: Fire Francona:
    [QUOTE]I just dont get it. When they win, Francona is no where to be mentioned. If they lose it's solely his fault. These tito convos are dumb. Red sox fans seem to be the only people that dont like him or think hes bad. Saying he had nothing to do with 04? If you gonna blame 08- present on tito you at least have to give him 04. Most of these arguments have no common sense or baseball knowledge in them anyway.
    Posted by redsoxlaxer12[/QUOTE]

    "WHEN THEY WIN, FRANCONA IS NO WHERE TO BE MENTIONED"
    He's mentioned constantly as payee on his salary check.
     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from BOSOX1941. Show BOSOX1941's posts

    Re: Fire Francona

    In Response to Re: Fire Francona:
    [QUOTE]That's a fine idea to fire Francona.Who needs a manager that only leads the team to win the World Series 33% of the time during his tenure with the team.The Sox should have won at least 7 championships during his 6 years as manager.     They should trade Lester too.He's pitched 3 games already and doesn't have a win.
    Posted by mrmojo1120[/QUOTE]

    Leads????? I'll give you the fact that he was there and he had the title of manager.
     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from Scott8340. Show Scott8340's posts

    Re: Fire Francona

    The same sad Tito apologists come out in defense of their overrated friend. Here's the bottom line. He didn't make the playoffs last year with one of the highest payrolls in the league, and he's now 2-9 with one of the best teams ever assembled.

    Hurts doesn't it.

    How come Tito didn't get thrown out the other night when Youk got called for that BS interference called that ended up costing us a run? Are we not desperate enough for him to give a hoot just yet? One of the worst calls ever, against the Yankees, in a year when we are playing with no emotion and 1-7 at the time, he goes out and says a few words and returns to his bed in the dugout to sleep.

    Then look at Maddon. He gets tossed in one of the more classic manager rants in recent memory, and his team responds by putting up 16 runs on us the next night and taking at least the first two games of the series with us.

    Tito is awful. Like I said earlier, he was better with Schilling. Schilling was Tito's Karl Rove.

     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from redsoxlaxer12. Show redsoxlaxer12's posts

    Re: Fire Francona

    http://www.boston.com/community/forums.html?plckForumPage=ForumDiscussion&plckDiscussionId=Cat%3aSportsForum%3a3fc713da-4715-4925-b94c-c14bddc7d8f4Discussion%3a28d7b1ae-1be9-4b44-bc4c-33842c9b1c4f
     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from southpaw777. Show southpaw777's posts

    Re: Fire Francona

    In Response to Re: Fire Francona:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Fire Francona : I'll never understand the amount of blame Francona receives on this board.
    Posted by mikeyinthebronx[/QUOTE]

    Same here..the amount of threads on this subject is ridiculous..
     
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    Re: Fire Francona

    In Response to Re: Fire Francona:
    [QUOTE]You're all right, he's the reason Dice-K gave up seven runs in two-plus innings. And he's the reason nobody except for Pedroia is hitting.
    Posted by LloydDobler[/QUOTE]

    I'll never understand the amount of blame Francona receives on this board.
     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from KingOSmakk. Show KingOSmakk's posts

    Re: Fire Francona

    Who signed Daisucko?

    Wasn't that the fantasy tandem of Blubbery Bill James and Theo?

    These two clowns are the problem.
     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from REDSOX-11. Show REDSOX-11's posts

    Re: Fire Francona


    And he deserves 99% of it too.

    In Response to Re: Fire Francona:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Fire Francona : I'll never understand the amount of blame Francona receives on this board.
    Posted by mikeyinthebronx[/QUOTE]
     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from eggplants. Show eggplants's posts

    Re: Fire Francona

                            Hey Lubcom, I think you've got something there. It goes to having a "feel" for the game, an attribute he never had  in Phila. or in Boston. He can't feel the danger coming, he prays a lot. This is vintage Francona. 
     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from BOSOX1941. Show BOSOX1941's posts

    Re: Fire Francona

    In Response to Re: Fire Francona:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Fire Francona :   Really?  There was no guidance down 3-0 to the Yankees in the ALCS, or in the world series sweep that followed?  You don't think he guided the club deftly through that?  You can't have it both ways.  You think he should be held accountable when the teams loses, and that makes sense to me.  Everyone involved is accountable.  But, if that is the case, everyone is accountable when they win too.
    Posted by SpacemanEephus[/QUOTE]
    Where was the guidance when they went down 0-3? What did you see him do during the WS sweep that contributed to or changed a potential loss into a win?? He sat and spit. He had as much to do with that sweep as the bat boy did.
    Do you firmly believe he ordered the Robert's steal?? It's more likely that Manny suggested it rather than Francona. 
     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from LeroyBrownn. Show LeroyBrownn's posts

    Re: Fire Francona

    What is Francona's nationality?

    Is he Italian?

    You rascists!
     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from stinkman. Show stinkman's posts

    Re: Fire Francona

    you are only as good as your starting pitching but i agree the game managing has been  puzzling at best. i am worried about salty i think he can not hit or handle this pitching staff.
     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from royf19. Show royf19's posts

    Re: Fire Francona

    In Response to Re: Fire Francona:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Fire Francona : lucbom, those 7 runs came awfully quick.  You can't just hook your guy, because you gotta take care of your bullpen arms.  Sometimes you just have to leave it up to your starter, who clearly doesn't have anything, to knuckle down, man up, and fight to eat some innings.  Daisuke didn't do that last night ... at all.  It is damned if you do, damned if you don't in that situation because you don't want to burn through your pen in one night.  
    Posted by SpacemanEephus[/QUOTE]


    And the one thing to add is you need to give the reliever time to warm up and get ready.

    The problem with all these critics is that they don't pay attention to what's going on around the league. They act like Francona is the only manager who tries to milk a starter as long as possible. They never name a manager who wouldn't do the same thing, because all you have to do is look up that team and see the same thing.

    For example, one idiot last year ripped Francona for taking out a starter after about 100 pitches in his first start. Then he went on about how Nolan Ryan was changing the culture in Texas and having their pitchers go longer. So I looked it up and what to you know — their pitchers had the same pitch counts as Boston's.

    If they would ever take their head out of their butts and learn something about the game, they'd realize how ignorant their posts are. 
     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from maxbialystock. Show maxbialystock's posts

    Re: Fire Francona

    A silly OP--but I do agree that what is true of every MLB team is true for the Sox.  If the team stays down, you can't fire the players, so you fire the manager.  It is way, way too early for that possibility. 

    The pitching is horrendous.  Not just the worst ERA in MLB, but the worst by 1.5 runs per game over the next worst pitching staff (Detroit's).

    This should not be a huge surprise because the Sox pitching last year was 9th or 10th best in AL and all five starters are back, plus Papelbon, who had his worst season ever as the closer. 

    Right now, I think Lester, Beckett, and Buchholz will have good seasons.  Ditto the bullpen trio of Pap, Bard, and Jenks and maybe a couple others.  Bad as he looks, Lackey could come around.  Matsuzaka will get another start or two before Theo makes a move. 

    And the hitting, which hasn't been as bad as the pitching but hasn't been that great either, should get a lot better. 
     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from SpacemanEephus. Show SpacemanEephus's posts

    Re: Fire Francona

    In Response to Re: Fire Francona:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Fire Francona : Your right on "Lloyd"....it is all on Dice K, BUT, if many watching the game can see that Dice K is getting hammered, then why does Francona/Young still leave him in the game until he gives up 7 runs, and leaves 2 on before Francona/Young pull him.  Its almost like Francona has made a decision that it was fruitless to try and win the game, after 2 innings.  Very frustrating.
    Posted by lucbom[/QUOTE]

    lucbom, those 7 runs came awfully quick.  You can't just hook your guy, because you gotta take care of your bullpen arms.  Sometimes you just have to leave it up to your starter, who clearly doesn't have anything, to knuckle down, man up, and fight to eat some innings.  Daisuke didn't do that last night ... at all.  It is damned if you do, damned if you don't in that situation because you don't want to burn through your pen in one night.  
     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from andrewmitch. Show andrewmitch's posts

    Re: Fire Francona

    He's the Barry Soetoro of the Red Sox; he's nothing more than a puppet for the puppet masters........
     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from SpacemanEephus. Show SpacemanEephus's posts

    Re: Fire Francona

    I have the feeling tito actually might have talked to Matsuzaka in the pen before last nights game and suggested that the strategy for the night should be to throw meatballs down the middle of the plate unless he felt like walking someone.  What a moron.  Who would do that?  Worst manager ever.
     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from booksy. Show booksy's posts

    Re: Fire Francona

    Right on!

    Last night Francona should have kept Matsuzaka in for the entie 9 innings, even if the Rays scored 50 runs (or more). And then both of them should have been given their unconditional release.
     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from ALaGatorAL. Show ALaGatorAL's posts

    Re: Fire Francona

    The problem is the Whole Team looks Sad. There is not one aspect to the season so far that would give any casual observer any hope. Yesterday's excuse was they ran into to hot teams at the wrong time. Maybe playing the Sox at this point will get any team "hot". The players are not performing any where near their norms and once again we will Kiss away another April. Thos team will have to pull off 10 game winning streaks several timesthis season just to stay in the race. Thank You Tito for getting Us another "Quick Start" out of the gate... You would have thought last season would have been a wakeup call But wait, it is only April !! Stop Chewing, Tito, and Start Jumping some AZZ !!

    P.S. Has there ever been a shot on TV with Francona discussing the game with anybody in the dugout ??
     
     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from redsoxlaxer12. Show redsoxlaxer12's posts

    Re: Fire Francona

    I just dont get it. When they win, Francona is no where to be mentioned. If they lose it's solely his fault. These tito convos are dumb. Red sox fans seem to be the only people that dont like him or think hes bad. Saying he had nothing to do with 04? If you gonna blame 08- present on tito you at least have to give him 04. Most of these arguments have no common sense or baseball knowledge in them anyway.
     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from LloydDobler. Show LloydDobler's posts

    Re: Fire Francona

    In Response to Re: Fire Francona:
    [QUOTE]To add to my above post. Look at Baltimore a couple of games ago. Showalter, who some posters have raved about, brought back Jake Arieta in the fourth after he allowed six runs in the third. He got just one out and allowed two more runs before finally being replaced. The line -- 3.1 IP, 8 ER. Manny Acta kept Vargas in a game last week to have a 3.1 IP, 7 ER, 9 H line. Then there is Nelson Figueroa for Houston. He allowed one run in the second and five runs in the third. He's kept in the game gets through the fifth, is brought back in the sixth and allows four more runs, getting just one out before taken out. Just a couple of examples.
    Posted by royf19[/QUOTE]

    Here's another ...

    Last week, Cole Hamels got shelled by the Mets. Charlie Manuel, who I have tons of respect for, stuck with him a while so he wouldn't kill the bullpen in an early-April game. Hamels never found it and gave up six runs in 2 2/3 innings.

    Fans always say "get him out of there" at the first sign of trouble as if there's an endless supply of relievers. You don't manage a game on April 11 the same way you do on Oct. 11.
     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from Hfxsoxnut. Show Hfxsoxnut's posts

    Re: Fire Francona

    In Response to Re: Fire Francona:
    [QUOTE]Francoma defenders act as if this is the first time he let his starting pitcher implode. 
    Posted by Encinitas[/QUOTE]

    Hardly.  We all know it happens a bunch of times during the season.  The point is that there are reasons for 'letting the starter implode' and that if you're paying attention you'll see the other managers doing the exact same thing on a regular basis for the same reasons.
     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from royf19. Show royf19's posts

    Re: Fire Francona

    To add to my above post.

    Look at Baltimore a couple of games ago. Showalter, who some posters have raved about, brought back Jake Arieta in the fourth after he allowed six runs in the third. He got just one out and allowed two more runs before finally being replaced. The line -- 3.1 IP, 8 ER.

    Manny Acta kept Vargas in a game last week to have a 3.1 IP, 7 ER, 9 H line.

    Then there is Nelson Figueroa for Houston. He allowed one run in the second and five runs in the third. He's kept in the game gets through the fifth, is brought back in the sixth and allows four more runs, getting just one out before taken out.


    Just a couple of examples.
     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from maxbialystock. Show maxbialystock's posts

    Re: Fire Francona

    Francona also made a key decision in the 2007 ALCS.  The Sox were down 2-1 to the Indians, and some were clamoring for Beckett to start on short rest, but Francona stayed with the plan, and the Sox won three in a row, beginning with a gem by Beckett, and went on to win the WS.
     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from maxbialystock. Show maxbialystock's posts

    Re: Fire Francona

    Almost every MLB manager will give his starter 7 runs before taking him out early (first four innings) in the game.  Why?  Because, while a starter's most important job is keeping his team in the game, his second most important job is eating innings.  If you keep bringing your bullpen in early, you will wear them out.  And, remember, Matsuzaka gave up 7 runs before he got his first out in the second inning. 

    Francona actually got three more outs from him before bringing in Wakefield, who promptly got three outs--with no runs scored--in the 3d inning.  That's good game management. 

    Also worth noting:  the Sox only scored 5 runs, so the game was basically out of reach before Wakefield came in. 

    The Sox have 7 relievers, and only 3 of them were used last night.  That leaves 4, including the three best (Pap, Bard, and Jenks) available for tonight should it be a close game.  Ditto tomorrow. 


     
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