First Base Situation - What about Ortiz / Gomez / Kotchman

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from ADG. Show ADG's posts

    First Base Situation - What about Ortiz / Gomez / Kotchman

    We've heard that Napoli isn't the greatest of fielding first baseman, and given that it looks like he is very damaged good (why else would it take 42 days and counting to resolve contract language), why not use Ortiz there.

    I've watched Ortiz play interleague games at first base and he isn't that bad.

    Cut bait with Napoli, offer Kotchman a minor league deal, let Gomez have a shot and go with a first base platoon of Ortiz/Gomez/Kotchman. There are enough interleague games sprinked through the year where Ortiz can get playing time.  In addition, in AL games where Ortiz plays first base, it would give the team the option of DHing one of the everyday guys like Pedroia, etc.

    Also, the expectations aren't high this year and if you can save the $13M from Napoli and you happen to be in contention, there's money to spend at the trading deadline.

     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from Drewski5. Show Drewski5's posts

    Re: First Base Situation - What about Ortiz / Gomez / Kotchman

    we need Napoli fowerer his righty power, not his ability to cover first.  if we cut ties, we don't have enough power.  the Yankeeswere sixth in batting average, first in Homers, and first in runs scored last year.  power is so important.  a healthy Napoli provides it.  if Napoli has a real untreatable injury, we should wall.  but we need to replace him with 30 Homers.  butler, Morse??  certainly not coachman

     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from 808soxfan. Show 808soxfan's posts

    Re: First Base Situation - What about Ortiz / Gomez / Kotchman

    I'd still like to see Napoli on a one-year contract with a vesting option for plate appearances for a second and even third year.

    Kotchman would be a serviceable alternative, but I would rather have him backing up Gomez. Give Gomez a shot.

    Next year, K. Morales and Morse are FA's, and it doesn't cost the Sox prospects to get them.

     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from MadMc44. Show MadMc44's posts

    Re: First Base Situation - What about Ortiz / Gomez / Kotchman

    If we knew Ortiz was going to be 100 % healed I'd say walk away--if he's 50-50 we will need Nap as long as his swing isn't crippled by the hip.

    Kotchman and Gomez excellent tandem at 1 B. If Ortiz is good to play still have Nap at 1 B with either Gomez or Kotchman as the back-up.

     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from SonicsMonksLyresVicars. Show SonicsMonksLyresVicars's posts

    Re: First Base Situation - What about Ortiz / Gomez / Kotchman

    {copied from another post}

    I see two problems with this:

    1)  Ortiz is not a good 1B, plus at his age with a dodgy Achilles tendon we'd be risking losing his bat for the whole season; and

    2)  We will have at most 4 subs:  catcher, UIF and OF are mandatory.  Do we want to use our last bench spot on a guy, Gomez, that can play 3B terribly (when we already have a UIF), 1B badly (when Salty - and others - can fill in for a night) and is unproven as a hitter?  I don't think so.

     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from ZILLAGOD. Show ZILLAGOD's posts

    Re: First Base Situation - What about Ortiz / Gomez / Kotchman

    Ortiz couldn't play firstbase when he was younger. That's why he became a DH at a young age. When you say "not that bad" , are you kidding me?  Sure firstbase is not considered a "skill" position ( you have always been able to hide a poor fielder with a good bat in either leftfield or firstbase).

    It's sad that we are being reduced to arguing over who is going to play the least demanding position on the field.

    One thing seems certain, we will not have a first baseman as good as Adrian Gonzalez....at least defensively.

     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from tomnev. Show tomnev's posts

    Re: First Base Situation - What about Ortiz / Gomez / Kotchman

    I think the Napoli situation will work itself out.....I think the Sox are posturing with thte one year stuff to get Napoli to agree to 2 years with an PA option for a 3rd year, as well as contract language on the injury ala, JD Drew and Lackey. Napoli is in a horrible position because he will not get 3 years from anyone else now and the Sox AAV money was presumably already higher than he was getting anywhere else....the Sox need him....he needs us. As for Ortiz, I never thought his glove was that bad, but no way you put him at 1st coming off the Achilles injury....quick moves are the worst thing for an achilles......as for Gomez.....he could get a shot if he tears it up in spring.....it happens all the time in baseball....but barring that  he cannot be counted on to be the starter.

     
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  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from ADG. Show ADG's posts

    Re: First Base Situation - What about Ortiz / Gomez / Kotchman

    The assumption is Papi will be better. If not, another Ben C screw up giving him that much loot.

     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from mef429. Show mef429's posts

    Re: First Base Situation - What about Ortiz / Gomez / Kotchman

    In response to Triumph-'s comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to ADG's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    The assumption is Papi will be better. If not, another Ben C screw up giving him that much loot.

    [/QUOTE]


     

    He is being paid to hit.

    Run down to Costco there and get a few cases of common sense.

    [/QUOTE]


    you could have gotten a better avatar..

     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from georom4. Show georom4's posts

    Re: First Base Situation - What about Ortiz / Gomez / Kotchman

    i want mike pegleg napoli signed for 13 million!

     

    dam the torpedos full speed ahead!

     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from eggplants. Show eggplants's posts

    Re: First Base Situation - What about Ortiz / Gomez / Kotchman

                                   Forget Napoli, the guy's a bedpan. Get 2 healthy guys, a LH  and RH bat. Gomes and Poppi, Gomes and Kotchman, or anyone with a power bat and his mirror. This is not a difficult problem to solve. You don't have to solve it now. Hold on to the Napoli money for a little longer. Look for a couple of OF'ers on the down side and let them go for it.

     
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  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from craze4sox. Show craze4sox's posts

    Re: First Base Situation - What about Ortiz / Gomez / Kotchman

    In response to ADG's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    We've heard that Napoli isn't the greatest of fielding first baseman, and given that it looks like he is very damaged good (why else would it take 42 days and counting to resolve contract language), why not use Ortiz there.

    I've watched Ortiz play interleague games at first base and he isn't that bad.

    Cut bait with Napoli, offer Kotchman a minor league deal, let Gomez have a shot and go with a first base platoon of Ortiz/Gomez/Kotchman. There are enough interleague games sprinked through the year where Ortiz can get playing time.  In addition, in AL games where Ortiz plays first base, it would give the team the option of DHing one of the everyday guys like Pedroia, etc.

    Also, the expectations aren't high this year and if you can save the $13M from Napoli and you happen to be in contention, there's money to spend at the trading deadline.

    [/QUOTE]

    I think a few have already said this but David at 1B isn't such a great idea.  Not a knock on Papi's improved 1B play but if there is one guy we need healthy and productive every day it's the big man.

    No 1B

     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from southpaw777. Show southpaw777's posts

    Re: First Base Situation - What about Ortiz / Gomez / Kotchman

    Papi has held his own at 1b in interleague play in the past, but no way would I even consider handing him a 1b mit right now.

    None of us have any clue to what Napolis MRI and other medicals say. None of us have any idea if BC has suggested paying a lower AAV to Naps or other language to be inserted into a contract. I have a feeling that one way or the other Naps will be wearing a Sox uni in 2013, even if for just this year...If his hip was truely as bad as some here speculate, the Sox would have cut ties already.

    No matter some folks relentless negativity towards the FO, theyre smarter baseball people that any of us. Although some of those same folks wouldnt think so.

     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from snakeoil123. Show snakeoil123's posts

    Re: First Base Situation - What about Ortiz / Gomez / Kotchman

    I would not mind Kotchman and Gomes.  There is something in me that thinks Gomes could hold is own offensively and Kotchman has the occasional good offensive year.

    It would not be my preference but it is possible this combo could work out.

    Ortiz is not going to be playing first.

     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from EnchiladaT. Show EnchiladaT's posts

    Re: First Base Situation - What about Ortiz / Gomez / Kotchman

    In response to Drewski5's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    we need Napoli fowerer his righty power, not his ability to cover first.  if we cut ties, we don't have enough power.  the Yankeeswere sixth in batting average, first in Homers, and first in runs scored last year.  power is so important.  a healthy Napoli provides it.  if Napoli has a real untreatable injury, we should wall.  but we need to replace him with 30 Homers.  butler, Morse??  certainly not coachman

    [/QUOTE]

    20.8 homers per year... we need his power? Really? If healthy? 109 games a year is healthy?  

    If Napoli only hits 20.8 homers a year why do we have to replace him with "30 homers" ? You have zero logic in your post.

     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from EnchiladaT. Show EnchiladaT's posts

    Re: First Base Situation - What about Ortiz / Gomez / Kotchman

    Ortiz should have been handed a first-basemens glve the minute Millar was let go... simple.

     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: First Base Situation - What about Ortiz / Gomez / Kotchman

    In response to EnchiladaT's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Ortiz should have been handed a first-basemens glve the minute Millar was let go... simple.

    [/QUOTE]

    He'd probably have been on the DL a handful more times had that been done way back then.

     
  20. This post has been removed.

     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from EnchiladaT. Show EnchiladaT's posts

    Re: First Base Situation - What about Ortiz / Gomez / Kotchman

    In response to moonslav59's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to EnchiladaT's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Ortiz should have been handed a first-basemens glve the minute Millar was let go... simple.

    [/QUOTE]

    He'd probably have been on the DL a handful more times had that been done way back then.

    [/QUOTE]

    That would be okay with me, he'd be gone by now and out of the way.

     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from Drewski5. Show Drewski5's posts

    Re: First Base Situation - What about Ortiz / Gomez / Kotchman

    In response to snakeoil123's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    I would not mind Kotchman and Gomes.  There is something in me that thinks Gomes could hold is own offensively and Kotchman has the occasional good offensive year.

    It would not be my preference but it is possible this combo could work out.

    Ortiz is not going to be playing first.

    [/QUOTE]

    My problem w/ Kotchman and Jones is this:

    3 - Pedroia

    4 - Ortiz

    5 - Middlebrooks

    Pedroia is low on power for a #3 hitter.  Middlebrooks has a long swing and could use more experience w/ high level pitch recognition (he really hasnt had that many AAA/Major League at-bats).  

     

     
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  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from Drewski5. Show Drewski5's posts

    Re: First Base Situation - What about Ortiz / Gomez / Kotchman

    In response to EnchiladaT's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to Drewski5's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    we need Napoli fowerer his righty power, not his ability to cover first.  if we cut ties, we don't have enough power.  the Yankeeswere sixth in batting average, first in Homers, and first in runs scored last year.  power is so important.  a healthy Napoli provides it.  if Napoli has a real untreatable injury, we should wall.  but we need to replace him with 30 Homers.  butler, Morse??  certainly not coachman

    [/QUOTE]

    20.8 homers per year... we need his power? Really? If healthy? 109 games a year is healthy?  

    If Napoli only hits 20.8 homers a year why do we have to replace him with "30 homers" ? You have zero logic in your post.

    [/QUOTE]

    First of all, lets be fair.  A healthy Napoli (at first base) does not project to 109 games.  That is a number that you made up.  

    Napoli averaged 119 games / yr over the last four, as a catcher.  Every manager rests his catcher 1 out of every six games (at least).  1/6 of the season is 27 games.  A catcher loses about 27 games/yr just for being a catcher.  Lets be fair.  Over the last two years, Napoli has been a DH when not catching , so lets slice this number in half.  We'll say that he has lost an average of 13 games played / yr over the last four years just for being a catcher.

    119+13 = 132.  Thats a good baseline for a healthy Napoli.  A very JD Drewish number.

    Over the last four years, Napoli has hit 100 homeruns (exactly) over 475 games played.  That computes to 1 HR in 21% of his games played.

    132 *21% = 28 HR.   Now lets say that Gomez (who I like as a back up) fills in for the remaining 30 games.  Due to Gomez's minor league slugging %, its not unreasonable to project him as a 20 HR/ yr guy.  20 / 162 = a homerun in 12.35% of his games played.  30 * 12.35% = an additional 3-4 homeruns.

    And there we have it.  30 HR from the firstbase position using fair estimates, projections, and actual player averages.  Also: we didnt factor in the fact that a lot of Napoli's games played were partial games played due to coming off the bench (which he frequently did) and defensive substitutions (which were made).  We also didnt account for the fact that these numbers are based on Napoli as a catcher.  As a firstbaseman , there will be less wear and tear on his body allowing him to potentially increase his HR/game rates.

    Burrito, your durability concerns are very valid.  However, durability and power are two completely different things.  He may not be durable; however, he has a HR in 6.6% of his at-bats.  This is the highest ding rate ever for a catcher.  Better than Piazza and Pudge.

    His career slg% is over .500.  His power is for real, and we need it (even if we only get 132 games of it).  If Napoli has a real / untreatable injury , then of course we should pursue other options.  However, based on what I read, it appears that there are warning signs of an injury down the road and not an already existing real / untreatable injury.

    If this is true (and neither of us know for sure) than the correct way to handle this is to build injury protection into the contract.  If my speculation is incorrect and its an already existing injury (or even if the the sox deem the risk of injury too high to pursue) thats okay.  But I'm not comfortable with Kotchman as the replacement.  We are not trying to replace Napoli's ability to cover first base.  We are trying to replace the 28 HR / 132 games played power.

    Trading for Butler, Upton, or both :) , intrigues me.  Because these guys have 30 HR / yr power.  However, I would need to know the cost of acquistion (prospect wise) for both.  Trading for Morse also intriuges me, however, I would need to know the status of his health (he has an injury history himself), if he can be extended (he is a FA after this year), and (of course) the cost of acquisition (prospect wise).

     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from Drewski5. Show Drewski5's posts

    Re: First Base Situation - What about Ortiz / Gomez / Kotchman

    In response to EnchiladaT's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to moonslav59's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to EnchiladaT's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Ortiz should have been handed a first-basemens glve the minute Millar was let go... simple.

    [/QUOTE]

    He'd probably have been on the DL a handful more times had that been done way back then.

    [/QUOTE]

    That would be okay with me, he'd be gone by now and out of the way.

    [/QUOTE]

    In the way of what exactly?  Lavarnaway because there was a job for Lava, he just didnt seize it.  Travis Shaw?

    Papi has not been in the way of anything.  Maybe he was in the way of us falling out of playoff conention in July, but thats about it.

     
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