FO, take notice and act quickly

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from craze4sox. Show craze4sox's posts

    FO, take notice and act quickly

    #1 Our staff has given up the 3rd most BB's in baseball
    #2 Our offense has the 3rd most SO's in baseball

    How long do we all have to watch this before you make another move or two to help our cause?  We are fortunate to be where we are but it certainly won't improve with only two dependable starters and an offense that struggles to score runs. 

     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: FO, take notice and act quickly

    K's are over-rated.

    Take Doubront out of the rotation: that problem solved.

     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: FO, take notice and act quickly

    BB/9

    Uehara  1.7

    Tazawa  1.7

    Breslow 2.3

    Lester    2.3

     

    Lackey   2.7

    Bailey      2.9

     

    Buch       3.2

    Morten   3.6

    Demp     3.6

     

    Doub      4.5

    Wilson    5.3

    Aceves   6.1

    Miller      6.8

     

     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from Joebreidey. Show Joebreidey's posts

    Re: FO, take notice and act quickly

    In response to craze4sox's comment:

    #1 Our staff has given up the 3rd most BB's in baseball
    #2 Our offense has the 3rd most SO's in baseball

    How long do we all have to watch this before you make another move or two to help our cause?  We are fortunate to be where we are but it certainly won't improve with only two dependable starters and an offense that struggles to score runs. 



    Our staff has the 2nd most Ks in the league.

    Our offense has the 2nd most wlaks.

    If you're worried about our hittings striking out too much, then you should be very happy that our pitchers are striking out so many guys.  And if you're worried that our pitchers are walking too many, then you should be very happy we are getting so many walks.

     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from ampoule. Show ampoule's posts

    Re: FO, take notice and act quickly

    Moon, are you saying that it's not better to put the ball into play?  K's are overated? As compared to what?

     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from maxbialystock. Show maxbialystock's posts

    Re: FO, take notice and act quickly

    In response to craze4sox's comment:

    #1 Our staff has given up the 3rd most BB's in baseball
    #2 Our offense has the 3rd most SO's in baseball

    How long do we all have to watch this before you make another move or two to help our cause?  We are fortunate to be where we are but it certainly won't improve with only two dependable starters and an offense that struggles to score runs. 



    If the season ends tonight, the Sox are in the playoffs.  Go peddle you panic elsewhere.   Did you notice the Rays closer giving up 3 walks, all of whom scored?  

     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from Hfxsoxnut. Show Hfxsoxnut's posts

    Re: FO, take notice and act quickly

    All that matters is scoring enough runs to win.  They just won 2 in a row in the Trop Dome which is never easy.

     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: FO, take notice and act quickly

    In response to ampoule's comment:

    Moon, are you saying that it's not better to put the ball into play?  K's are overated? As compared to what?



    1) I'd rather have a K than a DP.

    2) Think about how many times a ball put in play for an out actually moves a runner over.

    3) Then, think about how many times that runner who was moved over by an out ends up scoring.

    4) Then, think about how many times that runner who was moved over by an out and scored a run made a difference in a win or a loss.

    Yes, I am saying putting the ball in play for an out is pretty darn close to a K. The GIDP factor just about evens out the times advancing a runner matters.

    Yes: K's are over-rated.

    Now, if you have a horrible fielding team, it helps to have pitchers who strike out a lot of opps, or conversely, if we are playing a poor fielding team, it helps to put the ball in play.

    Here's my take:

    I'll take Salty's 35% K rate this year coupled with his .330 OBP over last year's 31% K rate and .288 OBP.

    I'm not saying K rate is useless, I'd take a 31% K rate and .330 OBP over a 31% K rate and .288 OBP. However, I think I'd take a 32% K rate and .289 OBP over a 31% K rate&/.288 OBP.

     
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  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from devildavid. Show devildavid's posts

    Re: FO, take notice and act quickly

    In response to moonslav59's comment:

    In response to ampoule's comment:

     

    Moon, are you saying that it's not better to put the ball into play?  K's are overated? As compared to what?

     



    1) I'd rather have a K than a DP.

     

    2) Think about how many times a ball put in play for an out actually moves a runner over.

    3) Then, think about how many times that runner who was moved over by an out ends up scoring.

    4) Then, think about how many times that runner who was moved over by an out and scored a run made a difference in a win or a loss.

    Yes, I am saying putting the ball in play for an out is pretty darn close to a K. The GIDP factor just about evens out the times advancing a runner matters.

    Yes: K's are over-rated.

    Now, if you have a horrible fielding team, it helps to have pitchers who strike out a lot of opps, or conversely, if we are playing a poor fielding team, it helps to put the ball in play.

    Here's my take:

    I'll take Salty's 35% K rate this year coupled with his .330 OBP over last year's 31% K rate and .288 OBP.

    I'm not saying K rate is useless, I'd take a 31% K rate and .330 OBP over a 31% K rate and .288 OBP. However, I think I'd take a 32% K rate and .289 OBP over a 31% K rate&/.288 OBP.



    Are there stats for how often outs advance runners? Are there stats for how often runs are scored on outs other than strikeouts? My thinking doesn't coincide with yours.

     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from Hfxsoxnut. Show Hfxsoxnut's posts

    Re: FO, take notice and act quickly

    In response to devildavid's comment:

     

    Are there stats for how often outs advance runners? Are there stats for how often runs are scored on outs other than strikeouts? My thinking doesn't coincide with yours.

    I think you have to look at team stats and correlations.  The Red Sox have the 2nd most K's in the league.  But they're T2 in OPS and 4th in runs, not far out of first.  So the high K rate isn't stopping them from scoring.

    In some specific situations of course, late and close, you need the hitter to put the ball in play and at least move the runner up.

     

     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: FO, take notice and act quickly

    There probabaly are stats like that, but do you really think a player who K's 35% of the time vs a player who K's 15% of the time really fails to advance a runner by a whole heck of a lot more over a full season?

    My guess is it might be 6-12 times over a season. Let's assume the BA and OBP are the same....

    600 PAs with 20% more Ks is 120 less balls put in play for outs. Do you think a runner is advanced more than 5-10% of those outs? Just curious.

     

     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from devildavid. Show devildavid's posts

    Re: FO, take notice and act quickly

    In response to Hfxsoxnut's comment:

    In response to devildavid's comment:

     

    Are there stats for how often outs advance runners? Are there stats for how often runs are scored on outs other than strikeouts? My thinking doesn't coincide with yours.

     



    I think you have to look at team stats and correlations.  The Red Sox have the 2nd most K's in the league.  But they're T2 in OPS and 4th in runs, not far out of first.  So the high K rate isn't stopping them from scoring.

     



    But are they maximizing their scoring chances? Can strikeouts kill rallies more than outs that advance runners? Just because a team scores "enough" and strikes out a lot does not mean strikeouts are irrelevant or not an area of weakness.

     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: FO, take notice and act quickly

    K's are not irrelevant: just over-rated.

    Is Doubront doing great because he's got a K rate of about 10? 

    Would you rathe have the 2012 Salty with a .288 OBP and 31% K rate over the 2013 Salty with a 35% K rate and .327 OBP?

    Of course, if all things are even (BA, OBP, SLG%) then I'll take the guy with the lower K rate, but my point is that if a guy is getting the job done, I don't care of all his outs are Ks.

     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from JimfromFlorida. Show JimfromFlorida's posts

    Re: FO, take notice and act quickly

    In response to craze4sox's comment:

    #1 Our staff has given up the 3rd most BB's in baseball
    #2 Our offense has the 3rd most SO's in baseball

    How long do we all have to watch this before you make another move or two to help our cause?  We are fortunate to be where we are but it certainly won't improve with only two dependable starters and an offense that struggles to score runs. 



    Sure use the two stats that fit your theory.
    Forget that they are the 3rd best hitting team. That they are in the top 5 of every other stat.

    Forget that 4 RS SP have an ERA under 4.05 Doub who has 3 W and pitched well tonight. That prior to last night the 4 SP had ERA under 3.75.

    If you wish to use stats to make your theory yo.u better look at all of them

     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: FO, take notice and act quickly

    Sure use the two stats that fit your theory.
    Forget that they are the 3rd best hitting team. That they are in the top 5 of every other stat.

     

    Forget that 4 RS SP have an ERA under 4.05 Doub who has 3 W and pitched well tonight. That prior to last night the 4 SP had ERA under 3.75.

    If you wish to use stats to make your theory yo.u better look at all of them

     

    Good post, except Doubront did not pitch "well tonight".

    6BB in 5 IP when he should be working on minimizing BBs is horrible.

    You know what the scary thing is about his line tonight?

     

    His 9 H+BB in 5 IP actually brought down his WHIP!

     
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  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: FO, take notice and act quickly

    In response to softlaw2's comment:

    Pitching was good enough, in this game. Who cares about a one game sample and "brought down his WHIP". Winning competition isn't about individual or team aggregate stats.



    Don't get too giddy. People might start thinking you are actually a Sox fan.

     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from MadMc44. Show MadMc44's posts

    Re: FO, take notice and act quickly

    The real problem with BB's is the offensive team keeps the line moving--simply the better hitters have more opportunities to bat and eventually hurt you. The top 3 or 4 batters will bat in the ninth if you walked just 3 or 4 in the first 8 innings. If you walked 4 and gave up 7 hits same type scenario. Keep the line moving. A double play ball and the batter beats the throw one more batter--closer again to the top of the order.

    Doubie lacks disipline on the mound. The management needs to demand more of the pitchers.

    Review the game tonight--the Sox got 4 hits and 6 walks. Doubie and others threw over 160 pitches.

    The Rays 7 hits and 8 walks. About 150 pitches for the Tampa pitchers..

     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from craze4sox. Show craze4sox's posts

    Re: FO, take notice and act quickly

    In response to Joebreidey's comment:

    In response to craze4sox's comment:

     

    #1 Our staff has given up the 3rd most BB's in baseball
    #2 Our offense has the 3rd most SO's in baseball

    How long do we all have to watch this before you make another move or two to help our cause?  We are fortunate to be where we are but it certainly won't improve with only two dependable starters and an offense that struggles to score runs. 

     



    Our staff has the 2nd most Ks in the league.

     

    Our offense has the 2nd most wlaks.

    If you're worried about our hittings striking out too much, then you should be very happy that our pitchers are striking out so many guys.  And if you're worried that our pitchers are walking too many, then you should be very happy we are getting so many walks.



    I am happy with those areas Joe because its what has been keeping us around.  Either Doub or Lackey need to be replaced, preferably both if I got my wish.  Since I doubt anyone wants Lackey unless we pay his entire salary its got to be Doub.  I would love to see a trade, none of our kids are ready but Renaudo could be the next to get a spot start.

     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from devildavid. Show devildavid's posts

    Re: FO, take notice and act quickly

    In response to moonslav59's comment:

    There probabaly are stats like that, but do you really think a player who K's 35% of the time vs a player who K's 15% of the time really fails to advance a runner by a whole heck of a lot more over a full season?

    My guess is it might be 6-12 times over a season. Let's assume the BA and OBP are the same....

    600 PAs with 20% more Ks is 120 less balls put in play for outs. Do you think a runner is advanced more than 5-10% of those outs? Just curious.

     




    I don't know, but that doesn't mean I assume it is statistically insignificant without the numbers to back it up. I only know that certain situations in games would be better served by a ball put in play than by a strikeout. How many games lost by one run could be changed into a win? Is one more win insignificant?

     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from Kingface12. Show Kingface12's posts

    Re: FO, take notice and act quickly

    In response to craze4sox's comment:

    #1 Our staff has given up the 3rd most BB's in baseball
    #2 Our offense has the 3rd most SO's in baseball

    How long do we all have to watch this before you make another move or two to help our cause?  We are fortunate to be where we are but it certainly won't improve with only two dependable starters and an offense that struggles to score runs. 




    You give us two stats but do not say the other stats that we are doing GREAT in...then you go away.  Sooooooo........tell us oh wise one...  What is YOUR suggestion we do?  And do not say "That's for the FO to decide.".  For real.....WHAT DO WE DO?

     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from craze4sox. Show craze4sox's posts

    Re: FO, take notice and act quickly

    In response to moonslav59's comment:

     

    There probabaly are stats like that, but do you really think a player who K's 35% of the time vs a player who K's 15% of the time really fails to advance a runner by a whole heck of a lot more over a full season?

    My guess is it might be 6-12 times over a season. Let's assume the BA and OBP are the same....

    600 PAs with 20% more Ks is 120 less balls put in play for outs. Do you think a runner is advanced more than 5-10% of those outs? Just curious.

     

     



    moon,

     

    My biggest concern is Doubront and Lackey.  We can't survive the season with only two dependable starters.  My other concerns are defense and the fact our lead off hitter is at 249, Nava and Nap are beginning to fade although Nava's OBP is still solid.  Even Gomes once high OBP is all but gone.

    I have to disagree on SO's, they are very important and usually contribute to low OBP's which is why guys like Salty, Gomes, Middy and Nap are where they are.  Guys that have better plate discipline usually have more success. 

    I think our team has been pretty lucky so far!

     

     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from Bill-806. Show Bill-806's posts

    Re: FO, take notice and act quickly

    In response to craze4sox's comment:

    #1 Our staff has given up the 3rd most BB's in baseball
    #2 Our offense has the 3rd most SO's in baseball

    How long do we all have to watch this before you make another move or two to help our cause?  We are fortunate to be where we are but it certainly won't improve with only two dependable starters and an offense that struggles to score runs. 

    BINGO !!!!    From the camp of SOFTY & BILL-806  !!!


     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from Kingface12. Show Kingface12's posts

    Re: FO, take notice and act quickly

    In response to Bill-806's comment:

    In response to craze4sox's comment:

     

    #1 Our staff has given up the 3rd most BB's in baseball
    #2 Our offense has the 3rd most SO's in baseball

    How long do we all have to watch this before you make another move or two to help our cause?  We are fortunate to be where we are but it certainly won't improve with only two dependable starters and an offense that struggles to score runs. 

     

    BINGO !!!!    From the camp of SOFTY & BILL-806  !!!


     




    Stellar post Bill.  So tell me Swami.....what would be YOUR suggestion we do??  And do not say "that's up to Ben to decide"......  For real....it's May 17th......what would YOU do to remedy this horrible team.....that also happens to have the 3rd best record in the AL......

     

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