Folks who do you believe.....

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from JimfromFlorida. Show JimfromFlorida's posts

    Folks who do you believe.....

    I find it funny that some here say Pedroia is saying what he has to say and not believing him. That Ortiz stated the clubhouse stuff was going on in 2003 and 2007 and no one complained.

    I NEVER trust a story that depends on unnamed sources over a story where a player stands up and speaks his mind.

    However I never believe a word from a column with unnamed sources.

    So I trust what Pedroia & Ortiz have said over the past three days of stories based upon unnamed sources by the likes of Dan Shaugnesy and others..
     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from georom4. Show georom4's posts

    Re: Folks who do you believe.....

    the only thing i care about is how the team plays....it was obvious that the dysfunction in the clubhouse made the team suffer...and our manager is to blame for not halting that...do you really want to keep the same nucleus of players together because they won a world series 5 and 8 years ago?????

    time to get younger....
     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from carnie. Show carnie's posts

    Re: Folks who do you believe.....

    How is it the same nucleus? The only guy who was starting in 2004 who was still starting this year was Big Papi. The rotation and bullpens have completely turned over since 2004. I mean c'mon geo, I usually respect you, but this seems disingenuous at best.
     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from JimfromFlorida. Show JimfromFlorida's posts

    Re: Folks who do you believe.....

    Papi and Pedroia both said the team played badly.If the clubhouse stuff was so disruptive please explain the months of June, July and August? As well as the fact that both stated it was done in 2004 and 2007?????????

    Sorry but they just played very bad in Sept.
     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from DirtDawgSox. Show DirtDawgSox's posts

    Re: Folks who do you believe.....

    In Response to Re: Folks who do you believe.....:
    the only thing i care about is how the team plays....it was obvious that the dysfunction in the clubhouse made the team suffer...and our manager is to blame for not halting that...do you really want to keep the same nucleus of players together because they won a world series 5 and 8 years ago????? time to get younger....
    Posted by georom4

    here here!
     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from ZILLAGOD. Show ZILLAGOD's posts

    Re: Folks who do you believe.....

    In Response to Re: Folks who do you believe.....:
    If the clubhouse stuff was so disruptive please explain the months of June, July and August?
    Posted by JimfromFlorida


    Nobody has addressed the fact that this was one of the best teams in the league through the heart of the season.

    I do not believe a word of the media's attempts at a witchhunt.

    Ortiz says the clubhouse is no different than what it was on past teams.

    Schilling says pretty much the same.

    It seems to me that the owners have teamed up with the media to discredit manager, GM and players.

    I would tend to believe Ortiz and Pedroia, they have always been stand up guys.
     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from hill55. Show hill55's posts

    Re: Folks who do you believe.....

    In Response to Folks who do you believe.....:
    I find it funny that some here say Pedroia is saying what he has to say and not believing him. That Ortiz stated the clubhouse stuff was going on in 2003 and 2007 and no one complained. I NEVER trust a story that depends on unnamed sources over a story where a player stands up and speaks his mind. However I never believe a word from a column with unnamed sources. So I trust what Pedroia & Ortiz have said over the past three days of stories based upon unnamed sources by the likes of Dan Shaugnesy and others..
    Posted by JimfromFlorida

    Do you give any credence to the unnamed sources cited in this WEEI column?

    http://fullcount.weei.com/sports/boston/baseball/red-sox/2011/10/13/sources-jon-lester-shouldnt-be-lumped-in-with-other-starters/
     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from sinjin5000. Show sinjin5000's posts

    Re: Folks who do you believe.....

    I believe the RS blew a 9 game lead in Sept, I believe, the pitching staff sucked in the second half of the season, I believe that Francona mailed in his managers job in the second half of the season.

    and I believe that there are to many me first, over the hill players on this team.

    I also believe that Theo is over rated, and will not be missed as much as people believe, If you don't believe it, just look up how money he blew on bad money contracts in the past four years.

    lastly,I believe it time for some major changes on this team no matter who was at fault. 

    It was begun with francona and Theo, lets hope it continues with lackey, wakefield, varatek, Ortiz and about three over priced, over the hill bull pen pitches. 

     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from Alibiike. Show Alibiike's posts

    Re: Folks who do you believe.....

    This is too good a team to have that kind of collapse without other contributing factors other than just "poor play"
    No focus, no intensity, and no sense of urgency whatsoever.
    Chemistry plays a huge role in a team's success. This team had none for most of the month of September, and whatever off-the-field problems there were, it all seems to have all come to a head the weekend of the hurricane. Even Pedey was not pleased with the scheduling.
     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from Beantowne. Show Beantowne's posts

    Re: Folks who do you believe.....

    Here's what I believe...Where there's smoke there's fire...

    In hindsight it easy to see that there were inherant issue that could undue the synergy nessesary to navigate a 162 game schedule, If the players and coaches didn't buy in...

    1) Uncertainly of contract status of the manager "lame duck"
    2) A new pitching coach..."taking over a veteran staff"...
    3) Pending free agents..."Playing for their next contract" = Selfish?
    4) Incoming big money guys..."neither of whom were ready to lead"
    5) Team leadership...Who's our Kevin Millar? Curt Schilling?
    6) Over paid/underperforming veterans...How much did "Jealousy" play a part?
    7) The omni-present media that comes with playing in Boston
    8) were all 25 guys in it to win it!

    Those are but a few examples...Like it or not what the 2011 team appeared to lack was an all for one, one for all, us against the world attitude.

    "The way a team plays as a whole determines its success. You may have the greatest bunch of individual stars in the world, but if they don't play together, the club won't be worth a dime."

    Babe Ruth
     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from JimfromFlorida. Show JimfromFlorida's posts

    Re: Folks who do you believe.....

    In Response to Re: Folks who do you believe.....:
    In Response to Folks who do you believe..... : Do you give any credence to the unnamed sources cited in this WEEI column? http://fullcount.weei.com/sports/boston/baseball/red-sox/2011/10/13/sources-jon-lester-shouldnt-be-lumped-in-with-other-starters/
    Posted by hill55


    I have a very hard time believing unnamed sources. If you have something to say good or bad attach your name to it. If you are not "man" or "woman" enough to own up to your comments don't make them.I don't believe unnamed sources especially with what Pedroia, Ortiz, Lowell and othe MLB players have said about what goes on in a clubhouse.
     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from WesternOregon. Show WesternOregon's posts

    Re: Folks who do you believe.....

    Jim...  "...I have a very hard time believing unnamed sources." 

    Do you believe unnamed sources or not? I have a hard time believing the Sox finished third in the east. Nevertheless, they did.


    Jim...  "...If you have something to say good or bad attach your name to it. If you are not "man" or "woman" enough to own up to your comments don't make them."

    I live in the 21st century Jim. People are what they are. They do what they do. They say what they say. Obviously you live in a world where people always say the right things. You live in a world where people always believe everything they say. You live in a world where people believe they have good reasons for everything they say and do. You live in a world where people never say what their told to say.

    As for baseball? Delmon Young was a great late season pick-up for the Tigers, eh?
     
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  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from LloydDobler. Show LloydDobler's posts

    Re: Folks who do you believe.....

    In Response to Re: Folks who do you believe.....:
    In Response to Re: Folks who do you believe..... : I have a very hard time believing unnamed sources. If you have something to say good or bad attach your name to it. If you are not "man" or "woman" enough to own up to your comments don't make them.I don't believe unnamed sources especially with what Pedroia, Ortiz, Lowell and othe MLB players have said about what goes on in a clubhouse.
    Posted by JimfromFlorida

    I understand where you're coming from with the unnamed sources, that's the way of the journalistic world. Heck, it was 30 years until we ever learned Deep Throat's identity, and he was right-on about everything.

    My question is, has anyone come forward to flat-out deny that pitchers weren't routinely partying during the games, which in my opinion is the most troubling allegation? That's not meant as a gotcha question, by the way.

     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from Pass-the-hubris-please. Show Pass-the-hubris-please's posts

    Re: Folks who do you believe.....

    Boston fans have no trouble believing unnamed sources when the topic is a team other than the Red Sox.
     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from JimfromFlorida. Show JimfromFlorida's posts

    Re: Folks who do you believe.....

    In Response to Re: Folks who do you believe.....:
    Jim...    Obviously you live in a world where people always say the right things. You live in a world where people always believe everything they say.
     Shouldn't you believe in what you say?
    You live in a world where people believe they have good reasons for everything they say and do.
    Why would you do or say something that you have no good reason to say or do?
    You live in a world where people never say what their told to say.
    If you need to be told what to say and when why should you be believed? Have you not the principal and integrity to stand up for your self? 
    Posted by WesternOregon


    WO please do not put words in my mouth like the Boston media does.
    So based upon what you said above are you saying people should live a lie???
     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from JimfromFlorida. Show JimfromFlorida's posts

    Re: Folks who do you believe.....

    In Response to Re: Folks who do you believe.....:
    In Response to Re: Folks who do you believe..... :My question is, has anyone come forward to flat-out deny that pitchers weren't routinely partying during the games, which in my opinion is the most troubling allegation? That's not meant as a gotcha question, by the way.
    Posted by LloydDobler


    People have come out and said it happened in previous years and during the months of May through Aug.
    Other non RS players have stated it happened on other teams.
    It has been also stated that if the RS had won the WS this would have not been a story.
    It has also been stated that if it had been going on before when they were winning why was it not reported then?
    It has also been stated that one reporter who wrote a story had been in the clubhouse only 3 times this year
     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from hill55. Show hill55's posts

    Re: Folks who do you believe.....

    In Response to Re: Folks who do you believe.....:
    In Response to Re: Folks who do you believe..... : I have a very hard time believing unnamed sources. If you have something to say good or bad attach your name to it. If you are not "man" or "woman" enough to own up to your comments don't make them.I don't believe unnamed sources especially with what Pedroia, Ortiz, Lowell and othe MLB players have said about what goes on in a clubhouse.
    Posted by JimfromFlorida

    Do you believe that the Cubs and Theo Epstein have tentatively agreed to a five-year contract in the range of $15 million to $20 million pending an agreement on compensation?
     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from WesternOregon. Show WesternOregon's posts

    Re: Folks who do you believe.....

    Jim...in the real world? People often do not believe in what they say. They say things for personal gain.

    Your "good reason" is often not someone elses "good reason" Jim.

    Jim...the world is real. It is filled with people who have an agenda. It is filled with contrived messages. It is filled with people who say one thing and do another. It is filled with people who are motivated by other than intrinsically good and ethical actions.

    What we believe is often our choice and what we're told.

    Heck, many believed that witches deserved to be tossed into deep water with a millstone tied to them. Now we have a city (Salem) that celebrates their "witch" heritage.

    If you believe the Red Sox public relations department is NOT working overtime now, so be it. They are though. So NOTHING can be believed. All bets are off.
     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from JimfromFlorida. Show JimfromFlorida's posts

    Re: Folks who do you believe.....

    In Response to Re: Folks who do you believe.....:
    In Response to Re: Folks who do you believe..... : Do you believe that the Cubs and Theo Epstein have tentatively agreed to a five-year contract in the range of $15 million to $20 million pending an agreement on compensation?
    Posted by hill55


    Yep because the RS and Cubs are working on compensation. Not because of an unnamed source.
     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from JimfromFlorida. Show JimfromFlorida's posts

    Re: Folks who do you believe.....

    Posts: 1645
    First: 1/13/2009
    Last: 10/14/2011
    Jim...in the real world? People often do not believe in what they say. They say things for personal gain.

    Your "good reason" is often not someone elses "good reason" Jim.

    Jim...the world is real. It is filled with people who have an agenda. It is filled with contrived messages. It is filled with people who say one thing and do another. It is filled with people who are motivated by other than intrinsically good and ethical actions.

    What we believe is often our choice and what we're told.

    Heck, many believed that witches deserved to be tossed into deep water with a millstone tied to them. Now we have a city (Salem) that celebrates their "witch" heritage.

    If you believe the Red Sox public relations department is NOT working overtime now, so be it. They are though. So NOTHING can be believed. All bets are off.                      




    WO YOUR POST IS JUST THE REASON WHY I DO NOT BELIEVE UNNAMED SOURCES HOWEVER MAYBE YOU DO.
     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from JimfromFlorida. Show JimfromFlorida's posts

    Re: Folks who do you believe.....

    In Response to Re: Folks who do you believe.....:
    Boston fans have no trouble believing unnamed sources when the topic is a team other than the Red Sox.
    Posted by Pass-the-hubris-please


    YOU ARE RIGHT THEY ARE QUICK TO BELIEVE UNNAMED REPORTS ABOUT OTHER TEAMS AS WELL AS NEGATIVE REPORTS ON BOSTON ESPECIALLY WHEN IT FITS INTO THEIR NARRATIVE AS TO WHY TERRY AND THEO SUK.
     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from Beantowne. Show Beantowne's posts

    Re: Folks who do you believe.....

    In Response to Re: Folks who do you believe.....:
    In Response to Re: Folks who do you believe..... : I understand where you're coming from with the unnamed sources, that's the way of the journalistic world. Heck, it was 30 years until we ever learned Deep Throat's identity, and he was right-on about everything. My question is, has anyone come forward to flat-out deny that pitchers weren't routinely partying during the games, which in my opinion is the most troubling allegation? That's not meant as a gotcha question, by the way.
    Posted by LloydDobler


    Llyod,
    Having a beer, eating fried chicken and playing video games...I guess could be construed as partying...Or it could be that after they completed their days work ie throwing program...they went into the lockeroom, took a shower and called it day...So they cracked a cold one, had some dinner and chilled out awaiting the game to end, on a day they weren't going to see the field under any cirmcumstance and I am sure they had the blessing of the coaches or they wouldn't have been in there. It's not like they were in their having a kegger!

    What I never read was that they did this on a day they were scheduled to pitch and what none of us know is if this is something that was SOP...Sorry but management had to have had knowledge of what they were doing and it wouldn't have been that tough to shut it down...If by doing so Francona, his coaskes or uppermanagement felt it was something that was detremental to the team...to me this is the one issue that far too much is being made of...Thier all grown men....
     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from hill55. Show hill55's posts

    Re: Folks who do you believe.....

    In Response to Re: Folks who do you believe.....:
    In Response to Re: Folks who do you believe..... : Yep because the RS and Cubs are working on compensation. Not because of an unnamed source.
    Posted by JimfromFlorida

    Who is the named source?

    http://www.boston.com/sports/baseball/redsox/articles/2011/10/14/red_sox_cubs_negotiate_compensation_for_theo_epstein/

    http://www.boston.com/sports/baseball/redsox/extras/extra_bases/2011/10/compensation_ta_1.html?comments=all

    http://www.weei.com/sports/boston/this-just-in/21147596/source-sox-only-want-prospects-theo

    http://www.weei.com/sports/boston/this-just-in/21147476/source-sox-cubs-negotiations-hit-bump

    http://www.bostonherald.com/sports/baseball/red_sox/view.bg?articleid=1373201

    http://www.nesn.com/2011/10/report-red-sox-cubs-still-working-on-compensation-for-theo-epstein-chicago-still-evaluating-talent.html
     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from BOSOX1941. Show BOSOX1941's posts

    Re: Folks who do you believe.....

    In Response to Re: Folks who do you believe.....:
    In Response to Re: Folks who do you believe..... : Llyod, Having a beer, eating fried chicken and playing video games...I guess could be construed as partying...Or it could be that after they completed their days work ie throwing program...they went into the lockeroom, took a shower and called it day...So they cracked a cold one, had some dinner and chilled out awaiting the game to end, on a day they weren't going to see the field under any cirmcumstance and I am sure they had the blessing of the coaches or they wouldn't have been in there. It's not like they were in their having a kegger! What I never read was that they did this on a day they were scheduled to pitch and what none of us know is if this is something that was SOP...Sorry but management had to have had knowledge of what they were doing and it wouldn't have been that tough to shut it down...If by doing so Francona, his coaskes or uppermanagement felt it was something that was detremental to the team...to me this is the one issue that far too much is being made of...Thier all grown men....
    Posted by Beantowne

    You hit the nail on the head. Good post.
     
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