For Sale: Ellsbury and Drew

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    Re: For Sale: Ellsbury and Drew

    1. In response to softlaw2's comment:

      "the past few weeks". LOL!

       

      When a player is for sale, the names come from those who want to buy the players. They don't come from me, I"m not buying.

      My "reserve" for S. Drew is any GM who will pay about 80% of his remaining contract.

      My "reserve" for Ellsbury is any GM will send 1 top 100 ranked prospect with proven current numbers at the AA or higher level of the minors.

      Hill is a trolling catatonic load of statistical mundanity, who occassionally posts something beyond "WAR" that has some merit.

      Ask Hill what he specifically suggested when Carp was "for sale". The answer is "nothing".



      This "trolling catatonic load of statistical mundanity" suggested outfielder Manuel Margot for Mike Carp ... and was terribly wrong:

       

      http://www.milb.com/milb/stats/stats.jsp?sid=milb&t=p_pbp&pid=622534

       
    2. Re: For Sale: Ellsbury and Drew

      posted at 5/31/2013 2:21 PM EDT

      • softlaw2
      • Posts: 8136
      • First: 11/7/2008
      • Last: 5/31/2013

      LOL, I stand corrected.

       

       

      The closest we'll ever come to seeing an admition of a mistake. 

     
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    Re: For Sale: Ellsbury and Drew

    In response to softlaw2's comment:

    Which is fine for Drew if Iggy can hit his weight. My guess on that is no.

    S. Drew  BA  .211  OBP .319  SLG  .359   OPS .679

    Iglesias BA  .435   OBP .460   SLG .543    OPS 1.03

    It's Drew who can't "hit his weight".

    As for Ellsbury, it makes total sense to get better than "draft compensation" and invest the time in Bradley.

    The Red Sox weakness issue is the same, and trading Ellsbury will  have zero affect on the potential for the 2013 Red Sox.



    The ZIPS remainder-of-season projections for Stephen Drew and Jose Iglesias:

    SD 73 G, 302 PA, 17 R, 3 HR, 21 RBI, .244/.323/.391/.714, 1.1 WAR*

    JI 73 G, 286 PA, 26 R, 1 HR, 19 RBI, .265/.307/.318/.625, 0.6 WAR

    * Wins Above Replacement as reported at FanGraphs:

    http://www.fangraphs.com/statss.aspx?playerid=4251&position=SS

    http://www.fangraphs.com/statss.aspx?playerid=10231&position=SS

     
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    Re: For Sale: Ellsbury and Drew

    In response to softlaw2's comment:

    Which is fine for Drew if Iggy can hit his weight. My guess on that is no.

    S. Drew  BA  .211  OBP .319  SLG  .359   OPS .679

    Iglesias BA  .435   OBP .460   SLG .543    OPS 1.03

     

    It's Drew who can't "hit his weight".

     

    As for Ellsbury, it makes total sense to get better than "draft compensation" and invest the time in Bradley.

     

    The Red Sox weakness issue is the same, and trading Ellsbury will  have zero affect on the potential for the 2013 Red Sox.



    When Drew was hitting, you repeatedly insisted on large sample sizes, specifically 2 1/2 years.  Now you are back to small ones I see.

     

    I wonder when we start using larger sample sizes for Iglesias.  His current seaso totals still involve less playing time thsn Drew's hot streak. ..

     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from southpaw777. Show southpaw777's posts

    Re: For Sale: Ellsbury and Drew

    In response to notin's comment:

    In response to softlaw2's comment:

     

    Which is fine for Drew if Iggy can hit his weight. My guess on that is no.

    S. Drew  BA  .211  OBP .319  SLG  .359   OPS .679

    Iglesias BA  .435   OBP .460   SLG .543    OPS 1.03

     

    It's Drew who can't "hit his weight".

     

    As for Ellsbury, it makes total sense to get better than "draft compensation" and invest the time in Bradley.

     

    The Red Sox weakness issue is the same, and trading Ellsbury will  have zero affect on the potential for the 2013 Red Sox.

     



    When Drew was hitting, you repeatedly insisted on large sample sizes, specifically 2 1/2 years.  Now you are back to small ones I see.

     

     

    I wonder when we start using larger sample sizes for Iglesias.  His current seaso totals still involve less playing time thsn Drew's hot streak. ..




    Apparently 46 AB is now good enough for Iggy, but Drews numbers for the month of May werent good enough and we had to wait until the "dog days" to see how he was doing then. goalposts successfully moved.

    I like what Iggy has done since returning. I think he will improve even more. Iggy and JBJ should be the starting SS and CF, respectively, next year.

     
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    Re: For Sale: Ellsbury and Drew

    In response to Bill-806's comment:

    In response to softlaw2's comment:

    Iglesias has proven himself, even if he returns to weak hitting like S. Drew.

    Ellsbury has 5 steals that didn't produce a single run, but should infatuate some NL GM's.

    Great time to sell these two soon departing players. Some GM will pay a substantial portion of S. Drew's remaining contract, and some GM will offer a solid prospect with proven upper level minor league numbers, for Ellsbury.

     Softy, just to show you that I am a "standup guy", I AGREE WITH YOU 100%.......   Now I will stand by and take my "hits" from the lib/left side !!!!!

    Bill, 

    Be real and cut the silly political commentary. Just because folks disagree you doesn't mean they are Liberal or Leftist. Points of view in politics aren't even remotely related to points of view in sports. As per your usual type of hype, you just love to post things to stir up the masses and to hear yourself think out loud. 

    I'm a political conservative on most issues and I rarely agree with you on anything. 

    Hetch

     
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  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from notin. Show notin's posts

    Re: For Sale: Ellsbury and Drew

    In response to softlaw2's comment:

      Now you are back to small ones I see.

    Notin, wrong. I've posted the big one, as in career and the last 2 years. Post whatever size you want on s. Drew, they're all "small" production samples.




    No you did not.   If by two years for Drew, you mean 2012 and 2013, his splits are .219/ .312 /.364.  If you were going back to 2011, they are .233 / .314 / .371.   If you were only using 2011 and 2012 (sort of irrelevant when compared to only using 2013 for Iglesias), they are .238 / .313 / .373.   Oddly, any of these ranges would have made your point.

     

    However, you decided 50 ABs from Iglesias was sufficient counter.  If you add in HIS last season. hios .246 / .304 / .33 is right in line with Drew.  But really, still entails less than 130 PA.

     

    Drew is a short term option at best, and hardly worth getting excited over.   Worst case scenario, he is gone by next season.   If the Sox fall out of it, he is potentially gone by August.

     

    At some point, try to acknowledge and enjoy that this team is actually in first place.  Even the staunchest supporters of this offseason did not anticipate being in first after May...

     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from ctredsoxfanhugh. Show ctredsoxfanhugh's posts

    Re: For Sale: Ellsbury and Drew

    You don't put up a BABIP over .500 with a sub 12 % line drive rate and over a 60% ground ball rate unless all prett much every hit is a weak hit.

    I like iggy, I've advocated for him to start in here for over a year.  I think you need to play him every day, let him bleed and let him adjust.  But there is a difference in approach at the plate and results that diminishes after time.  Unless Iglesias starts hitting the ball hard his numbers WILL come down.  

    He has a "good average" but his approach is horrible, he does not walk and he has no power.  If you want to make the case for Iggy starting it starts and ends with his defense.

     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from notin. Show notin's posts

    Re: For Sale: Ellsbury and Drew

    In response to ctredsoxfanhugh's comment:

    You don't put up a BABIP over .500 with a sub 12 % line drive rate and over a 60% ground ball rate unless all prett much every hit is a weak hit.

    I like iggy, I've advocated for him to start in here for over a year.  I think you need to play him every day, let him bleed and let him adjust.  But there is a difference in approach at the plate and results that diminishes after time.  Unless Iglesias starts hitting the ball hard his numbers WILL come down.  

    He has a "good average" but his approach is horrible, he does not walk and he has no power.  If you want to make the case for Iggy starting it starts and ends with his defense.




    EXactly.

     

    Heck I wanted Iglesias starting last year, and was surprised Aviles got the nod.  Aviles did exceed my expectations, but they were not exactly lofty ones...

     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from DaffyDan. Show DaffyDan's posts

    Re: For Sale: Ellsbury and Drew

    In response to ctredsoxfanhugh's comment:

    You don't put up a BABIP over .500 with a sub 12 % line drive rate and over a 60% ground ball rate unless all prett much every hit is a weak hit.

    I like iggy, I've advocated for him to start in here for over a year.  I think you need to play him every day, let him bleed and let him adjust.  But there is a difference in approach at the plate and results that diminishes after time.  Unless Iglesias starts hitting the ball hard his numbers WILL come down.  

    He has a "good average" but his approach is horrible, he does not walk and he has no power.  If you want to make the case for Iggy starting it starts and ends with his defense.




    +1

     
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  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: For Sale: Ellsbury and Drew

    In response to softlaw2's comment:

    "the past few weeks". LOL!

    When a player is for sale, the names come from those who want to buy the players. They don't come from me, I"m not buying.

    My "reserve" for S. Drew is any GM who will pay about 80% of his remaining contract.

    My "reserve" for Ellsbury is any GM will send 1 top 100 ranked prospect with proven current numbers at the AA or higher level of the minors.

    Hill is a trolling catatonic load of statistical mundanity, who occassionally posts something beyond "WAR" that has some merit.

    Ask Hill what he specifically suggested when Carp was "for sale". The answer is "nothing".  



    softy used to bash posters for not giving specific trade proposals (teams and players listed).

    Name a prospect you'd take for Ellsbury. Name a team that would part with him. 

    Youpr "any top 100 with good numbers in AA or above" is so general and subjective that nobody has any idea who you have in mind.

    Webster and DLR were top 100 and had good numbers in AA or above, but you call them bums. Would you trade Ellsbury for a pitcher with similar numbers as those two had at the time they were traded?

     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: For Sale: Ellsbury and Drew

    Unless Iglesias starts hitting the ball hard his numbers WILL come down.  

    Actually, even if he starts hitting the ball harder, his numbers will still come down. He's not going to maintain a .400+ BA even if he adds 25% to his LD%.

     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from Bill-806. Show Bill-806's posts

    Re: For Sale: Ellsbury and Drew

    In response to ampoule's comment:

    In response to softlaw2's comment:

     

    Iglesias has proven himself, even if he returns to weak hitting like S. Drew.

    Ellsbury has 5 steals that didn't produce a single run, but should infatuate some NL GM's.

     

    Great time to sell these two soon departing players. Some GM will pay a substantial portion of S. Drew's remaining contract, and some GM will offer a solid prospect with proven upper level minor league numbers, for Ellsbury.

     

     




    Ya know, you're probably right about Drew and Ellsbury, but how many times must you say it?  Please turn the page?  After all, we have bigger problems..like Eric Holder, for example.

     

     

      Yes ERIC HOLDER, isn't he something ????  Just the tip of the iceberg in that lib/left/rad/soc/enviro/corrupt/moonbat administration..........  Anyone that can't see it is BLIND  !!!!


     
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  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from Bill-806. Show Bill-806's posts

    Re: For Sale: Ellsbury and Drew

    In response to Hetchinspete's comment:

    In response to Bill-806's comment:

     

    In response to softlaw2's comment:

    Iglesias has proven himself, even if he returns to weak hitting like S. Drew.

    Ellsbury has 5 steals that didn't produce a single run, but should infatuate some NL GM's.

    Great time to sell these two soon departing players. Some GM will pay a substantial portion of S. Drew's remaining contract, and some GM will offer a solid prospect with proven upper level minor league numbers, for Ellsbury.

     Softy, just to show you that I am a "standup guy", I AGREE WITH YOU 100%.......   Now I will stand by and take my "hits" from the lib/left side !!!!!

     

     

    Bill, 

    Be real and cut the silly political commentary. Just because folks disagree you doesn't mean they are Liberal or Leftist. Points of view in politics aren't even remotely related to points of view in sports. As per your usual type of hype, you just love to post things to stir up the masses and to hear yourself think out loud. 

    I'm a political conservative on most issues and I rarely agree with you on anything. 

    Hetch

    Sorry HETCH,  5 years of the "BIG O" has done this to me !!    "LET ME BE CLEAR" !!!!!


     
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  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from Hetchinspete. Show Hetchinspete's posts

    Re: For Sale: Ellsbury and Drew

    In response to Bill-806's comment:

    In response to Hetchinspete's comment:

    In response to Bill-806's comment:

    In response to softlaw2's comment:

    Iglesias has proven himself, even if he returns to weak hitting like S. Drew.

    Ellsbury has 5 steals that didn't produce a single run, but should infatuate some NL GM's.

    Great time to sell these two soon departing players. Some GM will pay a substantial portion of S. Drew's remaining contract, and some GM will offer a solid prospect with proven upper level minor league numbers, for Ellsbury.

     Softy, just to show you that I am a "standup guy", I AGREE WITH YOU 100%.......   Now I will stand by and take my "hits" from the lib/left side !!!!!

     

     

    Bill, 

    Be real and cut the silly political commentary. Just because folks disagree you doesn't mean they are Liberal or Leftist. Points of view in politics aren't even remotely related to points of view in sports. As per your usual type of hype, you just love to post things to stir up the masses and to hear yourself think out loud. 

    I'm a political conservative on most issues and I rarely agree with you on anything. 

    Hetch

    Sorry HETCH,  5 years of the "BIG O" has done this to me !!    "LET ME BE CLEAR" !!!!!

    Bill, 

    First, since I've been on BDC I've rarely if ever witness you post anything of any substance with an actual clear point of view. Secondly, other the the Big "O" which to me is Oscar Robrtson who in the heck are you referring to. 

    Hetch

     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from Bill-806. Show Bill-806's posts

    Re: For Sale: Ellsbury and Drew

    In response to Hetchinspete's comment:

    In response to Bill-806's comment:

     

    In response to Hetchinspete's comment:

    In response to Bill-806's comment:

    In response to softlaw2's comment:

    Iglesias has proven himself, even if he returns to weak hitting like S. Drew.

    Ellsbury has 5 steals that didn't produce a single run, but should infatuate some NL GM's.

    Great time to sell these two soon departing players. Some GM will pay a substantial portion of S. Drew's remaining contract, and some GM will offer a solid prospect with proven upper level minor league numbers, for Ellsbury.

     Softy, just to show you that I am a "standup guy", I AGREE WITH YOU 100%.......   Now I will stand by and take my "hits" from the lib/left side !!!!!

     

     

    Bill, 

    Be real and cut the silly political commentary. Just because folks disagree you doesn't mean they are Liberal or Leftist. Points of view in politics aren't even remotely related to points of view in sports. As per your usual type of hype, you just love to post things to stir up the masses and to hear yourself think out loud. 

    I'm a political conservative on most issues and I rarely agree with you on anything. 

    Hetch

    Sorry HETCH,  5 years of the "BIG O" has done this to me !!    "LET ME BE CLEAR" !!!!!

     

     

    Bill, 

    First, since I've been on BDC I've rarely if ever witness you post anything of any substance with an actual clear point of view. Secondly, other the the Big "O" which to me is Oscar Robrtson who in the heck are you referring to. 

    Hetch

    Sorry again........  "I am what I am",  sorry that I have not met up to your standards !!!!!

     
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  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: For Sale: Ellsbury and Drew

    In response to softlaw2's comment:

    softy used to bash posters for not giving specific trade proposals (teams and players listed).

    You are out to lunch. That is in the case of those who want to acquire a MLB profile, not with regard to putting up veteran players for sale.

     

    Name a prospect you'd take for Ellsbury. Name a team that would part with him.

    I've already done that, on another thread.

    However, the issue isn't "name the prospect and the team". The issue is I'm putting Ellsbury up for sale and will sell and assign his contract to the first GM who offers any prospect at all who is consensus top 100 ranked prospect and who has good minor league numbers, for a year or more, at the AA or higher level.

     



    Is it too hard to name a name on this thread?

    Be specific.

    Would you trade Ellsbury for a profile like Webster and DLR had at the August 2012 point in their careers?

    Webster was rated #95 before 2012 by BA and #79 by MLB.com and was 6-3 in AA when traded.

    DLR was rated #90 by BA in 2011 and had a 2.92 ERA in AA in 2011, 1.41 in 2010.

    What's your criteria for your nebulous statement, "shown success in AA or AAA"?

    Be specific.

     

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