For Sale: Ellsbury and Drew

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    Re: For Sale: Ellsbury and Drew

    In response to Bill-806's comment:

    In response to softlaw2's comment:

     

    Iglesias has proven himself, even if he returns to weak hitting like S. Drew.

    Ellsbury has 5 steals that didn't produce a single run, but should infatuate some NL GM's.

     

    Great time to sell these two soon departing players. Some GM will pay a substantial portion of S. Drew's remaining contract, and some GM will offer a solid prospect with proven upper level minor league numbers, for Ellsbury.

     

     

    Softy, just to show you that I am a "standup guy", I AGREE WITH YOU 100%.......   Now I will stand by and take my "hits" from the lib/left side !!!!!


     



    What a profound BASEBALL comment! Take it to Fox!

     
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    Re: For Sale: Ellsbury and Drew

    In response to ctredsoxfanhugh's comment:

    You don't put up a BABIP over .500 with a sub 12 % line drive rate and over a 60% ground ball rate unless all prett much every hit is a weak hit.

    I like iggy, I've advocated for him to start in here for over a year.  I think you need to play him every day, let him bleed and let him adjust.  But there is a difference in approach at the plate and results that diminishes after time.  Unless Iglesias starts hitting the ball hard his numbers WILL come down.  

    He has a "good average" but his approach is horrible, he does not walk and he has no power.  If you want to make the case for Iggy starting it starts and ends with his defense.



    I'd even go a littel farther than that.  I'd say that no matter what he does his numbers are going to come down.  That is, unless you think he's going to be a .400+ hitter.

    Sooner or later he's going to come back to earth and when he does he's going to have a 2-19 streak.  When that happens the naysayers are going to be saying, "See!  See!! I TOLD you he couldn't hit!", when what is actually happening is that he's coming down to where he should be. 

    It reminds me of the streaks Napoli and Papi were on at the beginning of the season.  They're now approaching where they can be expected to be.  Baseball is a game of streaks.  Right now Iggy is on a hot streak.  Ride out the inevitable cold streak until his numbers stabilize and see where he is then. 

     
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    Re: For Sale: Ellsbury and Drew

    In response to S5's comment:

    In response to ctredsoxfanhugh's comment:

    [QUOTE]

     

    You don't put up a BABIP over .500 with a sub 12 % line drive rate and over a 60% ground ball rate unless all prett much every hit is a weak hit.

    I like iggy, I've advocated for him to start in here for over a year.  I think you need to play him every day, let him bleed and let him adjust.  But there is a difference in approach at the plate and results that diminishes after time.  Unless Iglesias starts hitting the ball hard his numbers WILL come down.  

    He has a "good average" but his approach is horrible, he does not walk and he has no power.  If you want to make the case for Iggy starting it starts and ends with his defense.

     



    I'd even go a littel farther than that.  I'd say that no matter what he does his numbers are going to come down.  That is, unless you think he's going to be a .400+ hitter.

     

    Sooner or later he's going to come back to earth and when he does he's going to have a 2-19 streak.  When that happens the naysayers are going to be saying, "See!  See!! I TOLD you he couldn't hit!", when what is actually happening is that he's coming down to where he should be. 

    It reminds me of the streaks Napoli and Papi were on at the beginning of the season.  They're now approaching where they can be expected to be.  Baseball is a game of streaks.  Right now Iggy is on a hot streak.  Ride out the inevitable cold streak until his numbers stabilize and see where he is then. 

    [/QUOTE]

    I agree. I think Iglesias is becoming a better hitter.  I think he will be a much better hitter at the end of the season, yet his numbers will be lower.  

    But I would NOT call this a hot streak.  If he starts hitting like he did last night, then yes that is a hot streak.  He put a CHARGE into that ball.  But every other hit were weak hits, infield hits, ground ball hits, balls that dropped.

    When I think of a player on a hot streak I think of Dustin Pedrioa hitting EVERYTHING as a line drive.  When you are hot you are putting a charge into the ball, you are squaring up with it, and you are driving it.  With the exception of last night Iggy has NOT!!!! been putting a charge into the ball.

     

    I've said this before, countless times and I will say it again and again and again.  I will support the case for Iglesias but as of right now it still BEGINS and ENDS with his defense. 

     
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    Re: For Sale: Ellsbury and Drew

    Iglesias also hit a nice deep shot for a double in the last game at Philly. 

     
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    Re: For Sale: Ellsbury and Drew

    In response to softlaw2's comment:


    400 foot homers won't be the signature of Iglesias, but his overall play (even when his plate numbers get weak) makes S. Drew the embarrassing management mistake that I said he was back before the season started.

    With Holt, there is no reason at all to keep S. Drew after Middlebrooks returns. They need to run Ciriaco through waivers and park him in the minors and clear the UIF spot for Holt. S. Drew needs to be sold, with cash sent as needed.

    The time needs to be invested in Middlebrooks and Iglesias, with Holt taking over UIF role.



    ___________________________________

     

    What is it about Boras clients named Drew?  Does Scott have pix of Larry and Tom somewhere?  They way overpaid for the first one and spent four years making excuses.  The quicker this one's gone the better.

     
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    Re: For Sale: Ellsbury and Drew

    In response to softlaw2's comment:

    JD Drew was a fit because of his oustanding defense in RF and a high OBP. The notion that his career meant he was going to come into Fenway and be a lefthanded high end slugger had zero basis in reality. Name the altnerantive to JD Drew for RF, during years that covered the 2007 and 2008 seasons.

    S. Drew and JD Drew are apples and oranges. S. Drew at 9.5M made zero sense.



    And $70 M over 5 years--Ave. $14 M per for JD made sense????? Sometimes I wonder what planet you are on. Were you following the Red Sox then?

     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: For Sale: Ellsbury and Drew

    Name the altnerantive to JD Drew for RF, during years that covered the 2007 and 2008 seasons.

    So, it was worth overpaying Drew for 5 years, because there was no better option for 2007-2008.

    I have you down for being a clown.

    Lugo: Good.

    JD: Good.

    Clown.

    Sox4ever

     
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    Re: For Sale: Ellsbury and Drew

    In response to softlaw2's comment:

    Just as I thought, the stooge trolls by with nothing but childish blather.

    I was here, on this board, when there was not one single pre-offer warning" don't sign JD Drew becasue we can go with such and such for cheaper and get just as good".

     



    How about this idea: don't bid against yourself and overpay for 5 years to fill a 1-2 year gap?

     
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    Re: For Sale: Ellsbury and Drew

    I've already named a name, you lazy troll.

    A current top 100, not Before 2012 and 2011, with top tier minor league numbers in at least 1 year or more of minor league ball at AA or higher.

     

    Oh, I misread your post, and I never heard of the prospect with a first name "Current" and a last name of "Toponehundred". I can't find his stats on baseballreference.com.

     

     

    Sox4ever

     
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    Re: For Sale: Ellsbury and Drew

    I am not sure that Ellsbury is going to bring back a draft pick in the 2014 draft as his performance to date will not be worth a $13.5 offer sheet.

    The Sox will not likely want to pay him that much for the 2014 season if he decided to stay in Boston for another year to help rebuild his free agency stock and no other team is likely to want to pay him that much per year either and possibly have to give up their first round draft pick.

    Is the gamble of paying $4-5 million to Ellsbury above what he is probably worth really what the Sox should pay to gain a single draft pick who will not likely be in the top ten picks in the draft?

    I think that they should try to sign him to an $8 M extension before the trading deadline and then move him for a couple of good to very good prospects if he refuses to sign the extension whether the team is still in the playoff picture or not.

     
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    Re: For Sale: Ellsbury and Drew

    Charlie that's a good OF option but we also have  other options in ShaVic and JBJ. Truthfully I like the other two CF options. Trade Ells when he and Vic are healthy and move Vic to CF with JBJ in RF, or vice versa,  and Nava in LF. You also have a CF backup should Vic go down again.

    We won two out of three at the Stadium with no Ells and no Vic; we lost to CC and beat Kuroda--not bad for a no name OF and our 3 B on the shelf. I realize the Yanks were also without their 3 B, SS and catcher.

    It will be interesting to see how the Sox fare leading up to the AS Break/Trade Deadline  and whether they are buyers or sellers. Both  AAA and AA teams are contending for league leads so you know they have decent talent and good leadership and they could replace SD, Ells and Gomes if need be in the coming weeks. Stability is the question mark...

     

     

     
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    Re: For Sale: Ellsbury and Drew

    In response to softlaw2's comment:

    "the past few weeks". LOL!

    When a player is for sale, the names come from those who want to buy the players. They don't come from me, I"m not buying.

    My "reserve" for S. Drew is any GM who will pay about 80% of his remaining contract.

    My "reserve" for Ellsbury is any GM will send 1 top 100 ranked prospect with proven current numbers at the AA or higher level of the minors.

    Hill is a trolling catatonic load of statistical mundanity, who occassionally posts something beyond "WAR" that has some merit.

    Ask Hill what he specifically suggested when Carp was "for sale". The answer is "nothing".  



    There's a pretty good chance that the comp pick we get for Ells will make the top 100 prospect list at some point ( like Bowden, bard, Buchholz,and Ells did. Who were ALL prior comp picks) so why not just keep BOTH Ells and JBJ for the rest of the yr and compete for a trip to the WS ? Of course, if another GM makes an offer we can't refuse then by all means, trade him. Though the same could be said about anyone on the roster for that matter. I just don't see it happening for a half season rental. They (the aquiring team) also won't even get a comp pick for him either if I'm correct ( which I may not be )

     
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    Re: For Sale: Ellsbury and Drew

    In response to makonikyman's comment:

    In response to softlaw2's comment:

    [QUOTE]

     

    "the past few weeks". LOL!

    When a player is for sale, the names come from those who want to buy the players. They don't come from me, I"m not buying.

    My "reserve" for S. Drew is any GM who will pay about 80% of his remaining contract.

    My "reserve" for Ellsbury is any GM will send 1 top 100 ranked prospect with proven current numbers at the AA or higher level of the minors.

    Hill is a trolling catatonic load of statistical mundanity, who occassionally posts something beyond "WAR" that has some merit.

    Ask Hill what he specifically suggested when Carp was "for sale". The answer is "nothing".  

     



    There's a pretty good chance that the comp pick we get for Ells will make the top 100 prospect list at some point ( like Bowden, bard, Buchholz,and Ells did. Who were ALL prior comp picks) so why not just keep BOTH Ells and JBJ for the rest of the yr and compete for a trip to the WS ? Of course, if another GM makes an offer we can't refuse then by all means, trade him. Though the same could be said about anyone on the roster for that matter. I just don't see it happening for a half season rental. They (the aquiring team) also won't even get a comp pick for him either if I'm correct ( which I may not be )

     

    [/QUOTE]

    Absurd.

    There's not enough room in a top 100 list for most comp picks to make it there. 

    On another thread I listed all the Sox comp picks that didn't make the top 100. There were way more.

    I love our recent comp picks, and I don't want to downplay the significance of getting one in this day and age, but to think a comp pick should have more value than the prospect we could get by trading Ellsbury is vastly underrating Ellsbury's value to a desperate contending team.

     
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    Re: For Sale: Ellsbury and Drew

    The range that comp picks are in have seen a exodus of talent.  Guys don't fall as much under the new CBA and when they do there isn't enough money to spread around.  Plus more high schoolers are going to college.  All of those has led to very weak drafts the last two years that will likely carry over into next and won't correct itself until 2015.

     

    If the pirates trade for gabby Sanchez is any indication of how teams value comp picks.....then comp picks might not be as valuable as us fans perceive.

     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from makonikyman. Show makonikyman's posts

    Re: For Sale: Ellsbury and Drew

    In response to ctredsoxfanhugh's comment:

    The range that comp picks are in have seen a exodus of talent.  Guys don't fall as much under the new CBA and when they do there isn't enough money to spread around.  Plus more high schoolers are going to college.  All of those has led to very weak drafts the last two years that will likely carry over into next and won't correct itself until 2015.

     

    If the pirates trade for gabby Sanchez is any indication of how teams value comp picks.....then comp picks might not be as valuable as us fans perceive.



    The new CBA only came into affect last yr, not 2 yrs. and there was no indication at all that more high school kids chose college over pro ball. If the numbers show from last yr that less hs kids were drafted it's because they reduced the number of rounds from 52 to 40. 

     
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