For Sale: Ellsbury and Drew

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    Re: For Sale: Ellsbury and Drew

    In response to makonikyman's comment:

    In response to ctredsoxfanhugh's comment:

    [QUOTE]

     

    The range that comp picks are in have seen a exodus of talent.  Guys don't fall as much under the new CBA and when they do there isn't enough money to spread around.  Plus more high schoolers are going to college.  All of those has led to very weak drafts the last two years that will likely carry over into next and won't correct itself until 2015.

     

    If the pirates trade for gabby Sanchez is any indication of how teams value comp picks.....then comp picks might not be as valuable as us fans perceive.

     



    The new CBA only came into affect last yr, not 2 yrs. and there was no indication at all that more high school kids chose college over pro ball. If the numbers show from last yr that less hs kids were drafted it's because they reduced the number of rounds from 52 to 40. 

     

    [/QUOTE]

    I'm counting this year, last year was weak and this year was weak.  Last year BY FAR saw the largest drop off of high school kids, many teams took nothing but college kids from the 5th round on to save money.  Last year had the largest imbalance from highschool to college kids in a draft. The first round was the exception. 

     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from makonikyman. Show makonikyman's posts

    Re: For Sale: Ellsbury and Drew

    In response to ctredsoxfanhugh's comment:

    The range that comp picks are in have seen a exodus of talent.  Guys don't fall as much under the new CBA and when they do there isn't enough money to spread around.  Plus more high schoolers are going to college.  All of those has led to very weak drafts the last two years that will likely carry over into next and won't correct itself until 2015.

     

    If the pirates trade for gabby Sanchez is any indication of how teams value comp picks.....then comp picks might not be as valuable as us fans perceive.



    And your wrong about the money "not being there" and players not slipping. Last yr the astro took Correa with the 1st and signed for 4 mil, then turned around and drafted Lance McCullers with thier comp pick and gave him 2.5, which was way above slot because they saved 3 mil from the Correa signing. Also, Avery Romero drafted in the 3rd round by the marlins signed for 800 k, again, way above slot. I can name a lot more hs kids from down here in Fl that all signed ABOVE slot even in the 20th or 30th round. The money is there. 

     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from makonikyman. Show makonikyman's posts

    Re: For Sale: Ellsbury and Drew

    In response to ctredsoxfanhugh's comment:

    In response to makonikyman's comment:

    [QUOTE]

     

    In response to ctredsoxfanhugh's comment:

     

    [QUOTE]

     

     

    The range that comp picks are in have seen a exodus of talent.  Guys don't fall as much under the new CBA and when they do there isn't enough money to spread around.  Plus more high schoolers are going to college.  All of those has led to very weak drafts the last two years that will likely carry over into next and won't correct itself until 2015.

     

    If the pirates trade for gabby Sanchez is any indication of how teams value comp picks.....then comp picks might not be as valuable as us fans perceive.

     

     



    The new CBA only came into affect last yr, not 2 yrs. and there was no indication at all that more high school kids chose college over pro ball. If the numbers show from last yr that less hs kids were drafted it's because they reduced the number of rounds from 52 to 40. 

     

     

     

    [/QUOTE]

    I'm counting this year, last year was weak and this year was weak.  Last year BY FAR saw the largest drop off of high school kids, many teams took nothing but college kids from the 5th round on to save money.  Last year had the largest imbalance from highschool to college kids in a draft. The first round was the exception. 

     

    [/QUOTE]

    The reason they drafted coll seniors from the 5th to the 10th round was to save money to sign HS kids in later rounds. That's the facts. Check it out....look at the signing bonuses of the hs kids that signe in the 15th, 20th, or even 35th round. ALL...above slot 

     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from ctredsoxfanhugh. Show ctredsoxfanhugh's posts

    Re: For Sale: Ellsbury and Drew

    There's are exceptions to the rules but the MONEY is not there.  Teams sign those college kids,let's say 5-6 of them for below slot, some teams did that and signed a top pick for below slot then they took that money and threw it at guys that dropped and gave them ABOVE slot.

    Theres exception to the rules, but last year was the first year haing bonus pools with very harsh penalties for violating them.  In years past, the red sox and Yankees spent whatever they felt like, now they will spend less than 1.05*their bonus pool.

     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from ctredsoxfanhugh. Show ctredsoxfanhugh's posts

    Re: For Sale: Ellsbury and Drew

    You can list offexceptions all day long but whe ou take a step back and look at the draft as shield we saw many things last year.

     

    Teams ultimately spent less money

    Many high school players did not sign.

     

     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from makonikyman. Show makonikyman's posts

    Re: For Sale: Ellsbury and Drew

    In response to ctredsoxfanhugh's comment:

    There's are exceptions to the rules but the MONEY is not there.  Teams sign those college kids,let's say 5-6 of them for below slot, some teams did that and signed a top pick for below slot then they took that money and threw it at guys that dropped and gave them ABOVE slot.

    Theres exception to the rules, but last year was the first year haing bonus pools with very harsh penalties for violating them.  In years past, the red sox and Yankees spent whatever they felt like, now they will spend less than 1.05*their bonus pool.



    Here are the facts. In 2012 30 percent of the players drafted were hs players. In 2011, 29 percent of the players drafted were hs players. 

     
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    Re: For Sale: Ellsbury and Drew

    http://www.foxnews.com/sports/2013/04/11/more-baseball-players-likely-choosing-college-game-over-pros-with-signing/

     

    Here's a good read on how the CBA is changing the draft.

     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from ctredsoxfanhugh. Show ctredsoxfanhugh's posts

    Re: For Sale: Ellsbury and Drew

    In response to makonikyman's comment:

    In response to ctredsoxfanhugh's comment:

    [QUOTE]

     

    There's are exceptions to the rules but the MONEY is not there.  Teams sign those college kids,let's say 5-6 of them for below slot, some teams did that and signed a top pick for below slot then they took that money and threw it at guys that dropped and gave them ABOVE slot.

    Theres exception to the rules, but last year was the first year haing bonus pools with very harsh penalties for violating them.  In years past, the red sox and Yankees spent whatever they felt like, now they will spend less than 1.05*their bonus pool.

     



    Here are the facts. In 2012 30 percent of the players drafted were hs players. In 2011, 29 percent of the players drafted were hs players. 

     

    [/QUOTE]
    Drafted.....not signed.  

     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from makonikyman. Show makonikyman's posts

    Re: For Sale: Ellsbury and Drew

    In response to ctredsoxfanhugh's comment:

    In response to makonikyman's comment:

    [QUOTE]

     

    In response to ctredsoxfanhugh's comment:

     

    [QUOTE]

     

     

    There's are exceptions to the rules but the MONEY is not there.  Teams sign those college kids,let's say 5-6 of them for below slot, some teams did that and signed a top pick for below slot then they took that money and threw it at guys that dropped and gave them ABOVE slot.

    Theres exception to the rules, but last year was the first year haing bonus pools with very harsh penalties for violating them.  In years past, the red sox and Yankees spent whatever they felt like, now they will spend less than 1.05*their bonus pool.

     

     



    Here are the facts. In 2012 30 percent of the players drafted were hs players. In 2011, 29 percent of the players drafted were hs players. 

     

     

     

    [/QUOTE]
    Drafted.....not signed.  

     

    [/QUOTE]

    I can only tell you what I know, and that is, from where I sit down here in s fl, and being heavily involved in the hs game down here, that I can tell you that of the 20 or so kids that I know that we're drafted ALL signed. Not ONE ..didn't. That's what I KNOW...

     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from makonikyman. Show makonikyman's posts

    Re: For Sale: Ellsbury and Drew

    In response to ctredsoxfanhugh's comment:

    In response to makonikyman's comment:

    [QUOTE]

     

    In response to ctredsoxfanhugh's comment:

     

    [QUOTE]

     

     

    There's are exceptions to the rules but the MONEY is not there.  Teams sign those college kids,let's say 5-6 of them for below slot, some teams did that and signed a top pick for below slot then they took that money and threw it at guys that dropped and gave them ABOVE slot.

    Theres exception to the rules, but last year was the first year haing bonus pools with very harsh penalties for violating them.  In years past, the red sox and Yankees spent whatever they felt like, now they will spend less than 1.05*their bonus pool.

     

     



    Here are the facts. In 2012 30 percent of the players drafted were hs players. In 2011, 29 percent of the players drafted were hs players. 

     

     

     

    [/QUOTE]
    Drafted.....not signed.  

     

    [/QUOTE]

    Correction....I know 2 that didn't sign. Jamal Martin, and Colin O Connell...

     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from makonikyman. Show makonikyman's posts

    Re: For Sale: Ellsbury and Drew

    In response to ctredsoxfanhugh's comment:

    In response to makonikyman's comment:

    [QUOTE]

     

    In response to ctredsoxfanhugh's comment:

     

    [QUOTE]

     

     

    There's are exceptions to the rules but the MONEY is not there.  Teams sign those college kids,let's say 5-6 of them for below slot, some teams did that and signed a top pick for below slot then they took that money and threw it at guys that dropped and gave them ABOVE slot.

    Theres exception to the rules, but last year was the first year haing bonus pools with very harsh penalties for violating them.  In years past, the red sox and Yankees spent whatever they felt like, now they will spend less than 1.05*their bonus pool.

     

     



    Here are the facts. In 2012 30 percent of the players drafted were hs players. In 2011, 29 percent of the players drafted were hs players. 

     

     

     

    [/QUOTE]
    Drafted.....not signed.  

     

    [/QUOTE]

    Who this new CBa really hurts in the pocket book are the coll seniors and jrs who are optioned options and have no leverage. The hs kids are gonna get thier money...

     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from ctredsoxfanhugh. Show ctredsoxfanhugh's posts

    Re: For Sale: Ellsbury and Drew

    Ok but you are talking about 20 kids in your community while I'm talking about the draft as a whole.  It's been widely talked abohigh ot the lack of highschool talent but rather more kids are turning down deals and going to college.  Some are signing for above/below slot and teams are moving money around to sign guys who fall to them but it's happening on a smaller scale.

     

    In years past for example if Sean Manaea fell to the Sox at 45....they draft him.  They don't even think about it.  They draft him and throw money at him.

    This year they don't have the bonus pool to meet his demands.  So if they wanted to sign him overshot there (or possibly another team elsewhere I'm just using him as an example because I know you are high on him) then they will sign other guys below slot in other places.  A lot of teams did that last year.  Some signed guys and cut deals with them in the top of the draft like the Astros.  Other teams in the mid rounds took college players who we seniors and had zero leverage and signed them or well below balance.  They took the sum of all those parts and signed Buttrey and Callahan.  Many teams did a combination of both.

    I can see that happening with a guy like Maneae this year, or he just might not sign we will see.

    But the some of all those parts is you see all the same things in every other draft but less of it.  Less of the bonus baby's that slipped, signed.  A lot were drafted but ultimately elected to go to college.  So all I was trying to say with that, is that I think in a couple years when that system smooths out youwill see more College talent at the top end of the draft.  There will always be highschool talent coming up as well.  But unil it all smooths out we can expect weak drafts. Least year across theindustry was considered a weak draft just like this year.  

     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from ctredsoxfanhugh. Show ctredsoxfanhugh's posts

    Re: For Sale: Ellsbury and Drew

    In response to makonikyman's comment:

    In response to ctredsoxfanhugh's comment:

    [QUOTE]

     

    In response to makonikyman's comment:

     

    [QUOTE]

     

     

    In response to ctredsoxfanhugh's comment:

     

     

    [QUOTE]

     

     

     

    There's are exceptions to the rules but the MONEY is not there.  Teams sign those college kids,let's say 5-6 of them for below slot, some teams did that and signed a top pick for below slot then they took that money and threw it at guys that dropped and gave them ABOVE slot.

    Theres exception to the rules, but last year was the first year haing bonus pools with very harsh penalties for violating them.  In years past, the red sox and Yankees spent whatever they felt like, now they will spend less than 1.05*their bonus pool.

     

     

     



    Here are the facts. In 2012 30 percent of the players drafted were hs players. In 2011, 29 percent of the players drafted were hs players. 

     

     

     

     

     

    [/QUOTE]
    Drafted.....not signed.  

     

     

     

    [/QUOTE]

    Who this new CBa really hurts in the pocket book are the coll seniors and jrs who are optioned options and have no leverage. The hs kids are gonna get thier money...

     

    [/QUOTE]

    Yes they will.....but there will be less money to go around.  A team will not go over bonus pool, unless they want to lose their first round picks.  Less money is being spent. That's a fact

     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from ctredsoxfanhugh. Show ctredsoxfanhugh's posts

    Re: For Sale: Ellsbury and Drew

    I'm not just pulling this out of my *** I'm actually more obsesEd with the minors and the draft than I'm the sox.  I read up on BA, soxprospects, baseball prospectus , ESPN, Minorleague ball.  This seems to be a very high a strong industry consensus that there will be less bonus babies to go around.  Just look at last year, at the end of the day we ended up with two high ceiling highschoolers.  Most other years the sox draft at least several other guys out of highschool and give them well above slot.  

    Now teams draft those 4-5 high profile guys because they know they will only be able to sign two of them.  So they pick a few hoping they can sign at least some of them.  That's why more highschoolers did not sign contracts and went to college last year.

    It will be interesting to see how last years draft effects this year and what changes....but that is without a doubt the course the draft has taken at least the last year.

     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from makonikyman. Show makonikyman's posts

    Re: For Sale: Ellsbury and Drew

    In response to ctredsoxfanhugh's comment:

    Ok but you are talking about 20 kids in your community while I'm talking about the draft as a whole.  It's been widely talked abohigh ot the lack of highschool talent but rather more kids are turning down deals and going to college.  Some are signing for above/below slot and teams are moving money around to sign guys who fall to them but it's happening on a smaller scale.

     

    In years past for example if Sean Manaea fell to the Sox at 45....they draft him.  They don't even think about it.  They draft him and throw money at him.

    This year they don't have the bonus pool to meet his demands.  So if they wanted to sign him overshot there (or possibly another team elsewhere I'm just using him as an example because I know you are high on him) then they will sign other guys below slot in other places.  A lot of teams did that last year.  Some signed guys and cut deals with them in the top of the draft like the Astros.  Other teams in the mid rounds took college players who we seniors and had zero leverage and signed them or well below balance.  They took the sum of all those parts and signed Buttrey and Callahan.  Many teams did a combination of both.

    I can see that happening with a guy like Maneae this year, or he just might not sign we will see.

    But the some of all those parts is you see all the same things in every other draft but less of it.  Less of the bonus baby's that slipped, signed.  A lot were drafted but ultimately elected to go to college.  So all I was trying to say with that, is that I think in a couple years when that system smooths out youwill see more College talent at the top end of the draft.  There will always be highschool talent coming up as well.  But unil it all smooths out we can expect weak drafts. Least year across theindustry was considered a weak draft just like this year.  



    I hear what your saying, and you're right. It'll all shake out in a couple yrs. but the reality is that the pros want the high upside hs kids so they can get them into thier system and start molding them. Get them 5/6/700 abs a yr as opposed to a couple hundred in coll. IMO, hs kids will still, going forward get the bulk of each teams pool money. Also....on a side note. I know of 4 kids last yr who were offered 6 figures ( 2 were offered 250k) to sign as free agents instead of going to school. 2 kids took the money and 2 didn't. That's another thing teams are doing to get around the CBA...

     
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    Re: For Sale: Ellsbury and Drew

    While it seems like We've been butting heads on a lead of draft related issues I just want to say that I really do enjoy this kind of conversation.  Hopefully a certain someone on this forum is paying attention and learning that you can have an argument peacefully without fighting everyone. 

     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from makonikyman. Show makonikyman's posts

    Re: For Sale: Ellsbury and Drew

    In response to ctredsoxfanhugh's comment:

    While it seems like We've been butting heads on a lead of draft related issues I just want to say that I really do enjoy this kind of conversation.  Hopefully a certain someone on this forum is paying attention and learning that you can have an argument peacefully without fighting everyone. 



    Haha...I hear ya. You're so right. Why is it people get so defensive when you counter their point or opinion. Not only on this board..in real life? Never could understand that. Can't wait for the draft. Should be interesting...

     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from 2013soxchamps. Show 2013soxchamps's posts

    Re: For Sale: Ellsbury and Drew

    softy knows his baseball

     
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