For those who remember how close in talent was Sizemore to Ellsbury back when he was healthy

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from FantaSox. Show FantaSox's posts

    For those who remember how close in talent was Sizemore to Ellsbury back when he was healthy

    Expecting Sizemore to be 100 percent of what he was is a dream but I wonder how close to Ellsbury he was.

     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from jete02fan. Show jete02fan's posts

    Re: For those who remember how close in talent was Sizemore to Ellsbury back when he was healthy

    i think they were they were real similar..Grady probably had a better arm, maybe a bit more consistent pop, but they both wreaked havoc when playing well.. 

     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from SonicsMonksLyresVicars. Show SonicsMonksLyresVicars's posts

    Re: For those who remember how close in talent was Sizemore to Ellsbury back when he was healthy

    Emmm, ahhhh, the what now?

    I've always been, and remain, a big supporter of Ellsbury...but when Sizemore was healthy - for 4 years - he was essentially the equivalent of Ells' one great (2011) season every season, if not better.  Probably better.

     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from Flapjack07. Show Flapjack07's posts

    Re: For those who remember how close in talent was Sizemore to Ellsbury back when he was healthy

    Sizemore 162 game average:
    .269/.357/.473/.830, 109 R, 39 2B, 8 3B, 25 HR, 83 RBI, 24 SB

    Ellsbury 162 game average:
    .297/.350/.439/.789, 108 R, 35 2B, 7 3B, 15 HR, 71 RBI, 55 SB

     

    So advantage Jacoby in average and speeed, advantage Grady in power (he was a 20-30 HR a year guy in his prime, while Ells only topped 9 homers once). I think few would argue that, with the exception of Ellsbury's 2011, Sizemore was the better all-around player in his healthy seasons.

     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from seannybboi. Show seannybboi's posts

    Re: For those who remember how close in talent was Sizemore to Ellsbury back when he was healthy

    Lower average but better OBP which means alot better plate discipline.  

     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from proftom2. Show proftom2's posts

    Re: For those who remember how close in talent was Sizemore to Ellsbury back when he was healthy

    Two different type players. Jacoby has more speed that disupts the game both offensively and on defence. Brady, is less disruptive. 

     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from SonicsMonksLyresVicars. Show SonicsMonksLyresVicars's posts

    Re: For those who remember how close in talent was Sizemore to Ellsbury back when he was healthy

    In response to Flapjack07's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Sizemore 162 game average:
    .269/.357/.473/.830, 109 R, 39 2B, 8 3B, 25 HR, 83 RBI, 24 SB

    Ellsbury 162 game average:
    .297/.350/.439/.789, 108 R, 35 2B, 7 3B, 15 HR, 71 RBI, 55 SB

     

    So advantage Jacoby in average and speeed, advantage Grady in power (he was a 20-30 HR a year guy in his prime, while Ells only topped 9 homers once). I think few would argue that, with the exception of Ellsbury's 2011, Sizemore was the better all-around player in his healthy seasons.

    [/QUOTE]

    Fair points, well made.

    It does make me laugh, or cry, when people claim Ells is/was injury-prone.  No!  Absurd!

    Ells was (effectively) run over by a bus on Comm Ave on the way to the Park in 2010 and 2012.

     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from ctredsoxfanhugh. Show ctredsoxfanhugh's posts

    Re: For those who remember how close in talent was Sizemore to Ellsbury back when he was healthy

    If we are comparing Ellsbury in his prime to Sizemore in his prime the more appropriate question is how close to Sizemmores talent WAS Ellsbury. 

    Ellsbury's best season was slightly better than any Sizemore had, but Sizemore was one of the best players in the league, and arguably the best for almost 4 years.  

    Ellsbury is a good player who had one elite year.  And Sizemore is only 1 year older, if he is legit healthy and can stay that way he might even be better than Ellsbury over the next 5 years; although that is a tall order with his history.  

     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from ThefourBs. Show ThefourBs's posts

    Re: For those who remember how close in talent was Sizemore to Ellsbury back when he was healthy

    In response to ctredsoxfanhugh's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    If we are comparing Ellsbury in his prime to Sizemore in his prime the more appropriate question is how close to Sizemmores talent WAS Ellsbury. 

    Ellsbury's best season was slightly better than any Sizemore had, but Sizemore was one of the best players in the league, and arguably the best for almost 4 years.  

    Ellsbury is a good player who had one elite year.  And Sizemore is only 1 year older, if he is legit healthy and can stay that way he might even be better than Ellsbury over the next 5 years; although that is a tall order with his history.  

    [/QUOTE]


    Yup. I'll be amazed if Sizemore stays healthy this season.

    If all he needed to get fully healthy was the time off, his signing will be the steal of the offseason.

     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from SonicsMonksLyresVicars. Show SonicsMonksLyresVicars's posts

    Re: For those who remember how close in talent was Sizemore to Ellsbury back when he was healthy

    In response to ctredsoxfanhugh's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    If we are comparing Ellsbury in his prime to Sizemore in his prime the more appropriate question is how close to Sizemmores talent WAS Ellsbury. 

    Ellsbury's best season was slightly better than any Sizemore had, but Sizemore was one of the best players in the league, and arguably the best for almost 4 years.  

    Ellsbury is a good player who had one elite year.  And Sizemore is only 1 year older, if he is legit healthy and can stay that way he might even be better than Ellsbury over the next 5 years; although that is a tall order with his history.  

    [/QUOTE]

    IMO, given equal health, Sizemore would have been/was a better player by a wide margin.  Again, I'm an Ells fan!  Sizemore was an elite player cut down by injury at the age Ells was just starting to emerge.

    I am thrilled Sizemore might be able to return to anything near his best...and it's great the Sox might reap the benefit if he can.

     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from hill55. Show hill55's posts

    Re: For those who remember how close in talent was Sizemore to Ellsbury back when he was healthy

    For what it's worth, Grady Sizemore and Jacoby Ellsbury are both natives of the Pacific Northwest, born 13 months apart in Seattle and Madras, Oregon, respectively.

     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from SonicsMonksLyresVicars. Show SonicsMonksLyresVicars's posts

    Re: For those who remember how close in talent was Sizemore to Ellsbury back when he was healthy

    One more thing:  How quickly they forget!:  Many go crazy about Stanton, with justification. But while Grady Sizemore was not at the same level at the same age, he wasn't that far off.

    But that was 5 long years ago, who can remember that!  ;-)

     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from ctredsoxfanhugh. Show ctredsoxfanhugh's posts

    Re: For those who remember how close in talent was Sizemore to Ellsbury back when he was healthy

    In response to SonicsMonksLyresVicars' comment:
    [QUOTE]

    One more thing:  How quickly they forget!:  Many go crazy about Stanton, with justification. But while Grady Sizemore was not at the same level at the same age, he wasn't that far off.

    But that was 5 long years ago, who can remember that!  ;-)

    [/QUOTE]

    Sizemore was a better player than Stanton is.  Look at Sizemores age 22-25 seasons, Stanton might have more RAW power, but Sizemore still had good power and was an all around better player.  Better defense at a premium position, better speed on the bases, walked more, scored a TON more runs and when he was healhty Sizemore was an every day player.  Sizemore played in about 160 games 4 years in a row while Stanton has averaged 129 the last 3 years. 

    A healhty Sizemore in his prime was better than what STanton is now in his prime. 

     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from slasher9. Show slasher9's posts

    Re: For those who remember how close in talent was Sizemore to Ellsbury back when he was healthy

    can i get a recap of the injuries that have plagued sizemore the last 3 years?

     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from ctredsoxfanhugh. Show ctredsoxfanhugh's posts

    Re: For those who remember how close in talent was Sizemore to Ellsbury back when he was healthy

    In response to slasher9's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    can i get a recap of the injuries that have plagued sizemore the last 3 years?

    [/QUOTE]

    None, he had injuries that plagued him BEFORE that.  To be honest I don't remember what they were, but I think that is something I should look up.  

    Hopefully they don't resurface. 

     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from ThefourBs. Show ThefourBs's posts

    Re: For those who remember how close in talent was Sizemore to Ellsbury back when he was healthy

    In response to ctredsoxfanhugh's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to slasher9's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    can i get a recap of the injuries that have plagued sizemore the last 3 years?

    [/QUOTE]

    None, he had injuries that plagued him BEFORE that.  To be honest I don't remember what they were, but I think that is something I should look up.  

    Hopefully they don't resurface. 

    [/QUOTE]


    Knee and back problems, if I recall.

     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from Flapjack07. Show Flapjack07's posts

    Re: For those who remember how close in talent was Sizemore to Ellsbury back when he was healthy

    In response to slasher9's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    can i get a recap of the injuries that have plagued sizemore the last 3 years?

    [/QUOTE]


     

    From Wikipedia:

     

    2009
    "On September 9, after struggling through a subpar season, Grady elected to have surgery on his left elbow which had troubled him since spring training...One week after the elbow surgery, he also elected to have surgery on his lower abdomen to repair a hernia that was related to the groin injury which forced him from the World Baseball Classic, thus ending his 2009 season one month before the final game."

    2010
    "After playing in 33 games, Sizemore's season ended after microfracture surgery was performed on his left knee."

    2011
    "Sizemore returned to the Cleveland Indians from his microfracture surgery, after rehabilitating with Triple-A Columbus Clippers, on April 17, 2011...Sizemore returned to the disabled list in May with a right knee contusion after sliding into a base. In mid-July, Sizemore was again placed on the disabled list following another injury to his right knee; shortly afterwards, he had a second sports hernia surgery, expected to sideline him into September."

    2012
    "Sizemore underwent back surgery during Spring Training, and began the season on the 60-day disabled list. A series of setbacks in his recovery from back and knee surgeries prevented him from appearing in any games during the season. Sizemore had microfracture surgery on his right knee in September, after a previous arthroscopic procedure in 2011 was unsuccessful in healing his ailing knee."

    2013
    "Grady Sizemore remained a free agent through the 2013 MLB season. According to his agent, Joe Urbon, Sizemore did not want to commit to a team until he was ready to play again."

     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from ctredsoxfanhugh. Show ctredsoxfanhugh's posts

    Re: For those who remember how close in talent was Sizemore to Ellsbury back when he was healthy

    In response to Flapjack07's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to slasher9's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    can i get a recap of the injuries that have plagued sizemore the last 3 years?

    [/QUOTE]


     

    From Wikipedia:

     

    2009
    "On September 9, after struggling through a subpar season, Grady elected to have surgery on his left elbow which had troubled him since spring training...One week after the elbow surgery, he also elected to have surgery on his lower abdomen to repair a hernia that was related to the groin injury which forced him from the World Baseball Classic, thus ending his 2009 season one month before the final game."

    2010
    "After playing in 33 games, Sizemore's season ended after microfracture surgery was performed on his left knee."

    2011
    "Sizemore returned to the Cleveland Indians from his microfracture surgery, after rehabilitating with Triple-A Columbus Clippers, on April 17, 2011...Sizemore returned to the disabled list in May with a right knee contusion after sliding into a base. In mid-July, Sizemore was again placed on the disabled list following another injury to his right knee; shortly afterwards, he had a second sports hernia surgery, expected to sideline him into September."

    2012
    "Sizemore underwent back surgery during Spring Training, and began the season on the 60-day disabled list. A series of setbacks in his recovery from back and knee surgeries prevented him from appearing in any games during the season. Sizemore had microfracture surgery on his right knee in September, after a previous arthroscopic procedure in 2011 was unsuccessful in healing his ailing knee."

    2013
    "Grady Sizemore remained a free agent through the 2013 MLB season. According to his agent, Joe Urbon, Sizemore did not want to commit to a team until he was ready to play again."

    [/QUOTE]

    Sometimes when you get bit by the injury bug it's almost impossible to get back.  You can re-injury an injury, or sometimes you over compensate with one muscle because another one became weaker leading to a completely new injury.

    I'm not saying Sizemore can come back and play completely healthy for a prolonged period of time, but if it ever was possible for a player with his profile it would take a long long period of time off.  Let the body fully heal, and the start working out again.  Not working out to get into baseball shape but working out to build a base that can build a durable body to be ABLE to get back into baseball shape.

    I know it's still too early to take anything for granted.....but he does give us something to dream on, doesn't he???

     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from billge. Show billge's posts

    Re: For those who remember how close in talent was Sizemore to Ellsbury back when he was healthy

    Funny, they have both been healthy for about four years.

     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from slasher9. Show slasher9's posts

    Re: For those who remember how close in talent was Sizemore to Ellsbury back when he was healthy

    back issues are tricky.  they can rear their ugly heads at anytime. 

    fingers crossed......

     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from notin. Show notin's posts

    Re: For those who remember how close in talent was Sizemore to Ellsbury back when he was healthy

    During his first 4 seasons, Sizemore played at ages 22 through 25 and accrued 26.9WAR.   Sizemore lead all MLB outfielders in WAR during this period.   During his first 4 full seasons, Ellsbury played at ages 24 through 27 and accrued 15.1 WAR.   Ellsbury ranked 11 among all MLB outfielders during this stretch.  (In an interesting coincidence, the outfielder right behind both Sizemore and Ellsbury during their respective stretches was Carlos Beltran.)   During his first 4 seasons, Stanton played at ages 21 through 24 and accrued 13.5WAR.  Stanton ranked 23rd among MLB outfielders over this period, just ahead of Torii Hunter, not Carlos Beltran, who was 37th.

     

    Sizemore was far and away the best of the three on these metrics.   Ellsbury was worth more WAR than Stanton over the first 4 years of their respective careers andfared better among his peers., but was also 3 years older. 

     

    Of course, that was then and this is now.  Ellsbury has since positioned himself to be one of the highest paid outfielders in MLB history, while Sizemore is simply trying to make an MLB roster…

     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from jasko2248. Show jasko2248's posts

    Re: For those who remember how close in talent was Sizemore to Ellsbury back when he was healthy

    In response to notin's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    During his first 4 seasons, Sizemore played at ages 22 through 25 and accrued 26.9WAR.   Sizemore lead all MLB outfielders in WAR during this period.   During his first 4 full seasons, Ellsbury played at ages 24 through 27 and accrued 15.1 WAR.   Ellsbury ranked 11 among all MLB outfielders during this stretch.  (In an interesting coincidence, the outfielder right behind both Sizemore and Ellsbury during their respective stretches was Carlos Beltran.)   During his first 4 seasons, Stanton played at ages 21 through 24 and accrued 13.5WAR.  Stanton ranked 23rd among MLB outfielders over this period, just ahead of Torii Hunter, not Carlos Beltran, who was 37th.

     

    Sizemore was far and away the best of the three on these metrics.   Ellsbury was worth more WAR than Stanton over the first 4 years of their respective careers andfared better among his peers., but was also 3 years older. 

     

    Of course, that was then and this is now.  Ellsbury has since positioned himself to be one of the highest paid outfielders in MLB history, while Sizemore is simply trying to make an MLB roster…

    [/QUOTE]

    Good stuff, Notin, as always.  Strange situation.  JBJ & Sizemore are both the type of guys people want to root for.  A part of me wants JBJ to "demand" the centerfielder's job this spring, while another part of me wants Sizemore to stay healthy and be 90% of that guy who was as good as it gets, while JBJ heads to Pawtucket for a bit.  Sizemore chose Sox at last minute because of trainer Danny Dyrek, who made Larry Legend get through some injuries.  It could be a great story in the making...

     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from kimsaysthis. Show kimsaysthis's posts

    Re: For those who remember how close in talent was Sizemore to Ellsbury back when he was healthy

    In response to ThefourBs' comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to ctredsoxfanhugh's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    If we are comparing Ellsbury in his prime to Sizemore in his prime the more appropriate question is how close to Sizemmores talent WAS Ellsbury. 

    Ellsbury's best season was slightly better than any Sizemore had, but Sizemore was one of the best players in the league, and arguably the best for almost 4 years.  

    Ellsbury is a good player who had one elite year.  And Sizemore is only 1 year older, if he is legit healthy and can stay that way he might even be better than Ellsbury over the next 5 years; although that is a tall order with his history.  

    [/QUOTE]


    Yup. I'll be amazed if Sizemore stays healthy this season.

    If all he needed to get fully healthy was the time off, his signing will be the steal of the offseason.

    [/QUOTE]

    Seems like that's a possibility. How cool would that be?

     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from kimsaysthis. Show kimsaysthis's posts

    Re: For those who remember how close in talent was Sizemore to Ellsbury back when he was healthy

    In response to hill55's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    For what it's worth, Grady Sizemore and Jacoby Ellsbury are both natives of the Pacific Northwest, born 13 months apart in Seattle and Madras, Oregon, respectively.

    [/QUOTE]

    And Curt Cobain was also born in Seattle. His music still battles the Beatles for top spot on the best ever list every year. If he had lived longer, there may not even be a contest. Imagine that. Smile

     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from kimsaysthis. Show kimsaysthis's posts

    Re: For those who remember how close in talent was Sizemore to Ellsbury back when he was healthy

    In response to slasher9's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    can i get a recap of the injuries that have plagued sizemore the last 3 years?

    [/QUOTE]

    No. Because he shouldn't be defined by that. He's doing quite well. I think we took a chance, and are about to get lucky with it. Lightning in a bottle.

    I'm amazed at how young he looks. For some reason, with all the descriptions of him, I thought he would be about 40 or something.

     

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