Forget the yankees, how much more are we gonna take from The Rays?

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from andrewmitch. Show andrewmitch's posts

    Forget the yankees, how much more are we gonna take from The Rays?

    2008, 2009, 2010, 2011 - the Rays have by far had the best of us

    And I don't see any fire in the Sox to change that.  At least prior to 2004 you could see the Sox wanted payback big time w/ the yankees.  But these guys seem content to continue to grab their ankles when they play the Rays.

    I don't even care about the yankees anymore.  If we don't turn it around against the Rays this year that will be five years in a row being owned by a team that has less than 1/3 our payroll.  I don't understand why more people aren't talking about this?

     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from UticaClub. Show UticaClub's posts

    Re: Forget the yankees, how much more are we gonna take from The Rays?

     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Forget the yankees, how much more are we gonna take from The Rays?

    So, are you saying the...

    "Rays will not go away!"
     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Forget the yankees, how much more are we gonna take from The Rays?

    Age  Pitcher      W-L  ERA   WHIP  Years of team control

    22 Matt Moore  1-0   2.89 1.286  8 years
    12:$1M, 13:$1M, 14:$1M, 15:$3M, 16:$5M, 17:$7M club option ($2.5M buyout), 18:$9M club option ($1M buyout), 19:$10M club option ($0.75M buyout)

    23 Alex Cobb    3-2   3.42  1.329  5 + years (pre-arb)

    24 Hellickson 13-10 2.95  1.153  5 years (pre-arb)

    25 D. Price      12-13 3.49  1.137  4 years (12:$1.5M -Then 3 arb years)

    25 W. Davis    11-10 4.45  1.375  6 years (12:$1.5M, 13:$2.8M, 14:$4.8M,  15:$7M club option, 16:$8M club option, 17:$10M club option ($2.5M buyout))

    28 J.Nieman    11-7   4.06  1.241  3 years (3 arb years)

    29 J.Shields    16-12  2.82  1.043  3 years  
    (12:$7M 13:$9M club option ($1.5M buyout), 14:$12M club option ($1M buyout))

    That's 7 quality young starters all under team control for 3 or more years.
    Cost:
    2012: ~$13M (Counting arb estimates )
    2013: ~$17M (Depending on arbs)
    2014: ~$24M (Depending on arbs)

     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from BurritoT. Show BurritoT's posts

    Re: Forget the yankees, how much more are we gonna take from The Rays?

    When moon said the Rays were not going away he did not mean just for 2011 he meant for the next three years.

    Had the Rays gone and added (they still could) a 30 homer 100 ribbie bat then I would say be concerned, very concerned.
     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from andrewmitch. Show andrewmitch's posts

    Re: Forget the yankees, how much more are we gonna take from The Rays?

    This isn't about The Rays "going away" or not

    This is about how the Sox have been a perpetual door matt when playing the Rays ever since Dan Johnson hit a bomb off Paps in 2008.  And the fact that I don't see any Sox players getting pumped about turning things around.  If I didn't know better I would say they are throwing the games to The Rays.

    Sox have to do something different.  Don't pitch to Longoria at Fenway - FORCE someone else to beat them. 

    Knock someone down.

    Play more aggressive ball on the bases - try and make something happen.

    Consider batting Ortiz 3rd vs the Rays to increase the chances of having men on base, esp Ellsbury, to try and take the Shift away from Madden.

    Right now, we just seem to content to let things continue as they are.
     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from andrewmitch. Show andrewmitch's posts

    Re: Forget the yankees, how much more are we gonna take from The Rays?

    Not sure they need a 30/100 guy with that pitching staff.  The Sox having to face Price and Moore in the same series is pretty disheartening.
     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from BurritoT. Show BurritoT's posts

    Re: Forget the yankees, how much more are we gonna take from The Rays?

    Well if the Sox want to play like spoiled children again in 2012 you should expect the Rays to beat them. Now that we have 2 Wild Cards I suppose we can expect spoiled brats to make the play-offs.
     
    Neither team makes the WS if a) Tampa does not ad a bat, and b) the Sox play like ack-azzes in September.

    Point: Do NOT TAKE TAMPA AS A GOAT
     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from andrewmitch. Show andrewmitch's posts

    Re: Forget the yankees, how much more are we gonna take from The Rays?

    Are 2 WC's now official?

    I never thought I'd see the day where MLB would turn into a recreational softball touranment.

    Best 5 Teams in the AL Now:

    Rangers, Angels, Tigers, Yankees, Rays
     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from BurritoT. Show BurritoT's posts

    Re: Forget the yankees, how much more are we gonna take from The Rays?

    We have to check but I believe it is absolute either in 12 or 13.
     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from andrewmitch. Show andrewmitch's posts

    Re: Forget the yankees, how much more are we gonna take from The Rays?

    I thought it was 2013 but they were still trying to get it for 2012?
     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Forget the yankees, how much more are we gonna take from The Rays?

    In Response to Re: Forget the yankees, how much more are we gonna take from The Rays?:
    [QUOTE]Not sure they need a 30/100 guy with that pitching staff.  The Sox having to face Price and Moore in the same series is pretty disheartening.
    Posted by andrewmitch[/QUOTE]

    They may not have added a 30-100 guy, but they will have Jennings all year and might have enough cash to make a late signing or July move.

     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from BurritoT. Show BurritoT's posts

    Re: Forget the yankees, how much more are we gonna take from The Rays?

    They did not make a move last summer when they should have, I question their FO's desire to win while they hold many of the cards.


     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from BurritoT. Show BurritoT's posts

    Re: Forget the yankees, how much more are we gonna take from The Rays?

    Last year showed they absolutely needed a 30/100 player. It is insane they refuse(d) to even make one significant move. 

    Pitching only gets you so far, as does offense. You need both. Ask the 2011 Rays, Red Sox, and Phillies about that if you don't believe me.
     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from andrewmitch. Show andrewmitch's posts

    Re: Forget the yankees, how much more are we gonna take from The Rays?

    As long as The Sox continue to "challenge" Longoria, they don't need another big bat.  The key is to pitch around him.  At the very least, it could get into their heads if you literally take the bat out of their best hitters hands.  Yeah Zobrist can hit but not like Longoria.

    The point is they can not continue with the same approach against the Rays otherwise they will face 5 straight years of being owned.  Bobby V could help earn my respect if he makes a point of taking it to the Rays in 2012.
     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from hankwilliamsjr. Show hankwilliamsjr's posts

    Re: Forget the yankees, how much more are we gonna take from The Rays?

    A 91 win team went away. The question is:

    What can be done to fix disaster left by half a billion and no playoff wins moves of Inesptein, to avoid repeating the biggest collapse in MLB season history!

    I've already provided 40 man roster specific details on how to do that. Silva was one of the correct moves, so far. Trading Ellsbury for a long term star RH OF bat profile, like J. Upton, would be another one.
     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from YOUKILLUS20. Show YOUKILLUS20's posts

    Re: Forget the yankees, how much more are we gonna take from The Rays?

    In Response to Re: Forget the yankees, how much more are we gonna take from The Rays?:
    [QUOTE]A 91 win team went away. The question is: What can be done to fix disaster left by half a billion and no playoff wins moves of Inesptein, to avoid repeating the biggest collapse in MLB season history! I've already provided 40 man roster specific details on how to do that. Silva was one of the correct moves, so far. Trading Ellsbury for a long term star RH OF bat profile, like J. Upton, would be another one.
    Posted by hankwilliamsjr[/QUOTE]

     The Upton/Ells deal is perfect, Upton is younger, 24, has RH pop and is a good guy. I actually crossed paths with him in Norfolk Va, last month, to say he's 6-2, is generous.
     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from andrewmitch. Show andrewmitch's posts

    Re: Forget the yankees, how much more are we gonna take from The Rays?

    I don't think we need a kid who dogs it, thanks anyways.

    Besides, on what planet do the Rays trade for Ellsbury - he's not in their price range.  And on what planet would the Sox downgrade their CF/leadoff hitter whilst giving a division rival a better player?

    OK, I've convinced myself this had to sarcasim.
     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Forget the yankees, how much more are we gonna take from The Rays?

    In Response to Re: Forget the yankees, how much more are we gonna take from The Rays?:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Forget the yankees, how much more are we gonna take from The Rays? :  The Upton/Ells deal is perfect, Upton is younger, 24, has RH pop and is a good guy. I actually crossed paths with him in Norfolk Va, last month, to say he's 6-2, is generous.
    Posted by YOUKILLUS20[/QUOTE]

    Why would AZ trade a younger player with 2 more years of team control for a Bora$$ client who will walk in 2 years?

    Upton:  12:$6.75M, 13:$9.75M, 14:$14.25M, 15:$14.5M 

    Jacoby will likely get a higher contract than $6.75M, so AZ won't even save money short-term. The same is probable for 2013. If they really want to trade Upton, they would likely do it July 2013 or that following winter.  Just like the silly clown's Kemp deal scenario, it's just not realistic.

    I'd do this deal in a flash, but it ain't happening.

     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Forget the yankees, how much more are we gonna take from The Rays?

    In Response to Re: Forget the yankees, how much more are we gonna take from The Rays?:
    [QUOTE]They did not make a move last summer when they should have, I question their FO's desire to win while they hold many of the cards.
    Posted by BurritoT[/QUOTE]

    I was surprised as well, especially since they got out of having to pay Manny's deal, they should have had extra money to play with.

    They do have some encouraging outlooks on their offense in 2012:

    1) 25 year old Longoria missed over 20 games to injury and only hit .244. I gotta think they get more from him in 2012.

    2) 24 year old Desmond Jennings will be on the 25 man all season and could easily improve on: .259/.356/.449/.805. Project his 2011 numbers to ~660 PAs:
      .259  23 HRs and 45 SBs
    Jennings is essentially taking Fuld's slot (.240/.313/.360/.673) and gives them a nice defensive 4th OF'er.

    3) Playing Jennings all year in the OF allows Zobrist to play 2B and Sean Rodriguez to play SS. This should improve TB's offense mostly by addition by subtraction:
      Rodriguez: .223/.323/.357/.679
      instead of:
      Brignac:  .193/.227/.221/.448
      Johnson: .194/.257/.338/.595
        While .679 looks bad, it's a lot better than the ~.500 OPS of Brignac & Johnson combined.

    4) 26 year old Matt Joyce could be coming into his own:
          .277/.347/.478/.825 in 522 PAs

    5) Replacing Shoppach's 253 PAs at catcher:
           .176/.268/.339/.607
         With more from...
         LH'd hitting Jaso  .224/.298/.354/.651  (27 y/o)
           (Jaso has a career .720 OPS vs RHPs)
         Chirinos (27) & Lobaton (26)

    Possible losses:
      1) Hard to expect an improvement from Kotchman's .800 OPS.
      2) Can they do better than Damon's .743 OPS mostly at DH?
         

     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from siestafiesta. Show siestafiesta's posts

    Re: Forget the yankees, how much more are we gonna take from The Rays?

    "I don't think we need a kid who dogs it, thanks anyways.

    Besides, on what planet do the Rays trade for Ellsbury - he's not in their price range.  And on what planet would the Sox downgrade their CF/leadoff hitter whilst giving a division rival a better player?

    OK, I've convinced myself this had to sarcasim."

    The previous poster was talking about Justin Upton (Arizona), not B.J.  You are aware B.J. has a brother, right??
     
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