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In Response to Re: Forum Ego vs. Enjoying your Team:




                   B I N G O

I'm kind of with Beacon on this one.  The people that come in whining after a few losses come off sounding like whiners for some reason.  To come in and discuss struggling players, okay.  To discuss what we need to do to get to the playoffs, okay.

Joe, "Beacon" (PIKE) is showing his hypocrisy once again by even starting this thread. He finds the battle of ego's a major distraction on this board, but he himself is a much worse one by calling attention to it obsessively.

He will never understand human nature in that not everybody is gonna think like him or be the fan he claims he is. Some folks are more passionate than others, and they have varied mentalities regarding expectation.

PIKE claims he enjoys the games, win or lose. Well, by now you'd think many would understand the marathon roller-coaster ride. But I think people who may get more involved passionately in the team than he might feel like if they are investing their emotions, they should be rewarded in the same fashion. When they aren't they react accordingly.

Now, PIKE will soon hammer me for being a contrarian here. Fact is, I don't appreciate whiners who vent unless they are willing to back up their b*tching.
But I understand the mindset. He isn't tolerant of it and it gives him an excuse to play wanna-be cop. All he has to do is use the IGGY tab or leave the forum, but then he'll have no avenue to whine about the whiners.

He is a compulsive labeller of people, and this board allows him to exercise his demons.

I think a lot of the frustration from the Sox posters comes from the knowledge that when the Sox go bad - the Yankee fans multiply and it is difficult to play cheerleader for a team that some fans perceive as underachieving at a particular moment in the season - especially when the only thing you can say to a Yankee poster is "Go Home" because they have the temporary upper hand.  It sounds great to put up a front that says you don't care about the division - just getting to the playoffs is what the season is about.  Well for some of us - just getting to the playoffs is not quite enough.  Gets old being the second best team out the East year after year for some of us.  If neither the Sox or the Yanks win the WS the bragging rights are reduced to the AL East.  Two weeks ago the Sox were on top of the world - Yankee fans were few, Tito haters scarce and nobody thought Theo would really be gone next year - the skies were blue - and then the hurricane came...just very difficult to stay positive and cheerlead through all of this in order to be perceived as a true Sox fan on this board.

So long as NY has the leverage of revenue over us and everyone else, get used to the idea of playing 2nd fiddle, just as the O's/Jays do finishing behind us in the WC.

As for the NY posters who seize the opportunity to rub it in, consider the sources. This forum has an IGGY tab for a reason. Out of sight, out of mind.

In Response to Re: Forum Ego vs. Enjoying your Team:


So long as NY has the leverage of revenue over us and everyone else, get used to the idea of playing 2nd fiddle,


harness whining about payroll again

thing is TB has won the division 2 of the last 3 yrs

so tell me more about who has the advantage

did you lose today because of the nyy payroll

It's not whining. It's factual. Want back-up? How about a half a billion advantage over the last decade. You continue to be in denial over monetary advantage.

And using the Rays is a poor analogy, as they have had 45 of 100 top picks from their many years of finishing last. And top picks eventually become FA signings when they leave. They simply chose a different route, at the cost of alienating their fan base.

In Response to Re: Forum Ego vs. Enjoying your Team:
[QUOTE]It's not whining. It's factual. Want back-up? How about a half a billion advantage over the last decade. You continue to be in denial over monetary advantage. And using the Rays is a poor analogy, as they have had 45 of 100 top picks from their many years of finishing last. And top picks eventually become FA signings when they leave. They simply chose a different route, at the cost of alienating their fan base.
Posted by harness[/QUOTE]



pathetic

how come the nyy payroll didn't stop boston from being their daddy H2H

the NYY payroll only seems to hurt Bos when they play teams with lesser payrolls

In Response to Re: Forum Ego vs. Enjoying your Team:


Are we breaking out Freedom of Speech to defend criticism?  And can't others invoke that same freedom to criticize you?

As for the "loyalty" thing, it is one thing to criticize  the team management, but the ones that bother me the most are the ones who think they actually are on equal footing and know the inner workings.  They repeatedly make baseless allegations simply because they cannot think up any other possibility.  They say stupid things like "Francona just wants to be buddies with the players" without having anywhere near the clue they think they do.  If they get bashed round and round for that opinion, I have no problem with that.

There are other critics, most notably lately a fellow named trouts, who frequently gets frustrated with Francona, but has lately resorted to only asking questions when he starts threads, as opposed to assuming he knows all the answers.  He does add some condescension on occasion, but has certainly been keeping it accusation-free and idiotic assumption-free.  And when he makes posts like that, I answer him far more civilly and to the best of my knowledge, as limited as that can be at times....

Because, ZAC,  head-to-head is 18 games per year. Not 162. Over the course of a season, depth created by revenue advantage is more telling.

Because teams match up differently. That's why NY is 5-4 vs. the WhiteSox and 4-3 vs. the Tribe this year.

Because there's an unparallel energy when the two meet.

What's truly pathetic is UR homerism denial. NY generally wins the marathon because they can afford to buy the top talent.
That doesn't always translate into rings as the game's variables come into play
more in a short series with everything on the line.

I suppose you think it's a coincidence that Ny wins one division after another with a 200+ million $$$ payroll. Let's see them spend as would the Twins or the A's.
Then we'll see who cops the division every year.

In Response to Re: Forum Ego vs. Enjoying your Team:


If I have to answer this kind of question one more time, I am going to start assuming the lot of you are simply illiterate...

95% of pike's posts are written in attack mode ... which leads me to believe that is exactly what he enjoys doing. If the so-called Trolls dissapeared along with the writers of doom, I would guess that pike would evaporate with nothing more to live for.

save your payroll whine 4 the winter

unless you are telling me that you had the yanks favored

to win the division opening day

most people picked the sox

yanks added no payroll since then

what a shame that you two can't admit

one teams pitching exceeded expectations

while one team  failed to reach them

In Response to Re: Forum Ego vs. Enjoying your Team:


I am just as passionate as anyone and so are the gentlemen of the forum who don't overreact, have impulsive tantrums, always look for scapegoats, and handle each loss like a child. Passionate posters also may choose to act like adults. Passionate fans watch or listen to every game and have done so for decades. Passionate fans may choose to be tolerant, patient, and optimistic about highly paid players who are underperforming instead of giving up on them. Passionate fans should realize that nobody promised them a rose garden, there are no guarantees, and they are not entitled to anything despite what the payroll is. Passionate fans among the gentlemen of the forum and outside of it lose sleep after tough losses, and get upset because their team lost but they chose not to run here and vent like a spoiled child. The children who are 12 years old have an excuse but men who are old should not come here merely to vent and find someone to argue with and pick a fight with. When Ellsbury gets caught stealing a passionate Red Sox fan does not run into the forum and gloat about it, nor does he arrive in ecstacy because Drew struck out four times. Those are reactions that are covered by Yankee fans.

Like I said earlier many regulars are more concerned with the stances that they have cultivated over time and act more as if they are on a debating team than being a fan. It is as if the debate class professor has given them a role to play and they must succeed in that role or else their grade / ego will suffer. They take that role so seriously that they make it binary - Ex.- Tito is always wrong, Theo is the worst GM in MLB, Crawford is the worst signing ever and will never improve. There is no option in debate class to take a moderate position or color the answer as gray instead of black or white. The professor would not approve. Thus is the forums battle of the egos. Many come here not as fans but as debaters and debates by definition have a winner, a loser, binary arguments, and egos at stake.

Woe to the poster who says that last night's close loss was due to many factors. Woe to the poster who blamed last year's season on 19 players on the DL and many position players out for months. Woe to anyone who blames a loss on intangibles and bad luck. Woe to the poster who states that the other team played better last night.The forum debaters need to debate specifics and that means scapegoating specifics. All of the debaters are more concerned as to which players were signed by Duquette or Epstein and forget that they all are OUR players. The forum by its nature has taken the fun out of being a fan and substituted the supposed fun of debate points and maintaining egos. When the Red Sox lose, true passionate fans not only have to deal with the agony of defeat but they must also listen to supposed Red Sox fans bash the very players that they should be rooting for - double jeopardy.

In Response to Re: Forum Ego vs. Enjoying your Team:

Great post.

In Response to Re: Forum Ego vs. Enjoying your Team:



Expected response. I am talking about NY's financial edge over years and now you limit the discussion to this year. What happened to you HTH argument?

Did you address where NY would finish W/O reliance on distorted financial/revenue structure? Of course not. You never do.
Facts suddenly become whiningwhen they compromise UR allegiance to a fkn conglomerate.

All year long several posters have commented on under-estimating NY's starting staff. So don't give me that BS. And spare me the 200 million dollar underdog crap.
Tell me NY fans didn't have high expectations this year.
I'll break out the violin...

I am getting a bit tired of the disparity... as much as I would like to win a number of WSC in a ten year span its a little ridiculous that Boston and New York continue to make the play-offs based off their ability to afford big contracts.

did you or did you not

pick the sox this yr harness ?

if you did you can't cry payroll 6 months later when nothing has change

actually I think the sox payroll went up




rambling on about yrs past isn't going to change anything

I have never denied that the yanks $$ is an advantage over 

teams other than the 11 RS
 




All year long several posters have commented on under-estimating NY's starting staff. So don't give me that BS




I'm talking about you

I have no idea

since I stopped reading most of your homer posts

since your classless act in 09

No we can't complain about the Yankee payroll anymore unless we include ourselves in the conversation. I for one have fianlly been forced by this past winters spending to now include the Red Sox in the same tier as the Yankees. A $41 million difference does not mean much when we are well above $150 million ourselves.

In Response to Re: Forum Ego vs. Enjoying your Team:


No, I didn't "pick" the RedSox. Nor did I offer any win projection. I erroneously took a longshot position on the O's winning 90 games and/or finishing 2nd or beating out NY.
I didn't think NY had the SR depth, and because of that, had hoped they might not even make the PO's. Obviously, if NY didn't, Boston would likely be a shoe-in.
 
Nice of you not to deny NY's $$ advantage over the rest of the league.
My '09 thread CONGRATULATIONS TO NY - FOR BUYING ANOTHER DIVISIONAL TITLE echoed the same sentiment - of a distorted monetary system. Get UR head out of the sand and face the realities.

I'll ask you yet again: Would NY have won as many, or nearly as many divisions without their huge revenue advantage? I'm not just talking about the rest of the league. I'm also talking about a half billion advantage over Boston covering the last decade.

Why won't you answer this? Might it be the homer in you?

EDIT: Don't worry. If UR retort is classless, I'll still read UR stuff. UR posts toward Kim have been abusive and childish, as have many of mine toward others. That's why I won't stoop to such judgements.

In Response to Re: Forum Ego vs. Enjoying your Team:


I agree.

But I'm not limiting this conversation to this one year. And 40 mil is a lot of bread that can be spent over any given year. In 2011, it could strengthen the BP and better replace CAM. If NY didn't have the monetary edge they do, nor would Boston, as the system would likely revert back to pre-Free Agency.  And the mindsets of both teams would be affected.

When in the desert and low on water, every drop becomes precious. When swimming in Beverly Hills, waste becomes the accepted.

I agree on the past... I was still starting threads on their gluttony up until this winter. Signing Crawford (hind sight not included) was too much for me. Overkill.

Last winter, the stakes rose as season ticket/TV revenue was dropping significantly.
Once the commitment was made to slug it out with NY in a monetary ring, the inevitable result would be over-paying and/or over-estimating a limited talent pool.

NY set this ridiculous standard.
The commissioner/union won't change the landscape.
And the fans continue to support this lunacy.

Pike knew this thread would shift to fan rivalry. That's why he started it. He used Smiley in the same fashion.

Pike is a menace.

I think that any team that has a taxpayer funded stadium (which at thispoint is most of them) should HAVE to put a good portion of their revnue into improving their team (Pittsburgh, Florida, San Diego, Houston, Minnesots {yes I know they have been competitive, but up until recently they were NOT paying guys, and even now, while they have paid to keep THEIR players...do not attempt to sign any FA}) A floor would be way more valuable than a celing at this point, the union has already won (just like the owners have won in the NFL & NHL and are about to win in the NBA) Salary cap is never coming to baseball.