Forum Ego vs. Enjoying your Team

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from nhsteven. Show nhsteven's posts

    Re: Forum Ego vs. Enjoying your Team

    In Response to Re: Forum Ego vs. Enjoying your Team:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Forum Ego vs. Enjoying your Team : I am just as passionate as anyone and so are the gentlemen of the forum who don't overreact, have impulsive tantrums, always look for scapegoats, and handle each loss like a child. Passionate posters also may choose to act like adults. Passionate fans watch or listen to every game and have done so for decades. Passionate fans may choose to be tolerant, patient, and optimistic about highly paid players who are underperforming instead of giving up on them. Passionate fans should realize that nobody promised them a rose garden, there are no guarantees, and they are not entitled to anything despite what the payroll is. Passionate fans among the gentlemen of the forum and outside of it lose sleep after tough losses, and get upset because their team lost but they chose not to run here and vent like a spoiled child. The children who are 12 years old have an excuse but men who are old should not come here merely to vent and find someone to argue with and pick a fight with. When Ellsbury gets caught stealing a passionate Red Sox fan does not run into the forum and gloat about it, nor does he arrive in ecstacy because Drew struck out four times. Those are reactions that are covered by Yankee fans. Like I said earlier many regulars are more concerned with the stances that they have cultivated over time and act more as if they are on a debating team than being a fan. It is as if the debate class professor has given them a role to play and they must succeed in that role or else their grade / ego will suffer. They take that role so seriously that they make it binary - Ex.- Tito is always wrong, Theo is the worst GM in MLB, Crawford is the worst signing ever and will never improve. There is no option in debate class to take a moderate position or color the answer as gray instead of black or white. The professor would not approve. Thus is the forums battle of the egos. Many come here not as fans but as debaters and debates by definition have a winner, a loser, binary arguments, and egos at stake. Woe to the poster who says that last night's close loss was due to many factors. Woe to the poster who blamed last year's season on 19 players on the DL and many position players out for months. Woe to anyone who blames a loss on intangibles and bad luck. Woe to the poster who states that the other team played better last night.The forum debaters need to debate specifics and that means scapegoating specifics. All of the debaters are more concerned as to which players were signed by Duquette or Epstein and forget that they all are OUR players. The forum by its nature has taken the fun out of being a fan and substituted the supposed fun of debate points and maintaining egos. When the Red Sox lose, true passionate fans not only have to deal with the agony of defeat but they must also listen to supposed Red Sox fans bash the very players that they should be rooting for - double jeopardy.
    Posted by BeaconHill19[/QUOTE]

    A well written post, but this passage reeks of hypocrisy.
     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from BurritoT. Show BurritoT's posts

    Re: Forum Ego vs. Enjoying your Team

    In Response to Re: Forum Ego vs. Enjoying your Team:
    [QUOTE]I think that any team that has a taxpayer funded stadium (which at thispoint is most of them) should HAVE to put a good portion of their revnue into improving their team (Pittsburgh, Florida, San Diego, Houston, Minnesots {yes I know they have been competitive, but up until recently they were NOT paying guys, and even now, while they have paid to keep THEIR players...do not attempt to sign any FA}) A floor would be way more valuable than a celing at this point, the union has already won (just like the owners have won in the NFL & NHL and are about to win in the NBA) Salary cap is never coming to baseball.
    Posted by athens7676[/QUOTE]

    Its criminal to a degree that teams took tax money and did nothing to improve the tem, but also the spending on salaries is ludicrous. In these times of hardship they should be discussing how to make salaries more realistic, not forcing the lesser teams to simply shell out big money on a couple of players.

    What good is it to demand the Pirates to shell out $140 million to Carl Crawford? Who does it help? The city? would the stadium be any more full wiht Carl batting .250 or .400 for that matter.
     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from BurritoT. Show BurritoT's posts

    Re: Forum Ego vs. Enjoying your Team

    Anytime the players union objects than you know it is not to the benefit of the game. If ten games taken away makes such an impact than an equally stron case could be to ad 10 more games to the season, or maybe 20. They could play all year long.

    They ahve enough money and all things being equal the season and their earnings wouldbe fine with 152.

    All my thoughts of course, deaf ears out there in MLB .... BurritoT has quitely spoken.
     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from athens7676. Show athens7676's posts

    Re: Forum Ego vs. Enjoying your Team

    If you think salaries are to high...don't spend any money on anything baseball related. Encourage everyone you know to do the same. If people stop paying, teams will stop paying....the players are paid what the market for their job skills dictates, despite that fact that intially they have no choice in who they go to work for. Players are not overpayed.
     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from soxmeister. Show soxmeister's posts

    Re: Forum Ego vs. Enjoying your Team

    This team will make the playoffs.  But not like we wanted, and not fully loaded. 
     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from BurritoT. Show BurritoT's posts

    Re: Forum Ego vs. Enjoying your Team

    That sounds very fair market Mr. Athens..... then perhaps this is why America is suffering so much, when we actually convince ourselves someone is worth 30k for one days work (throwing a baseball to a catcher).


     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Forum Ego vs. Enjoying your Team

    Its criminal to a degree that teams took tax money and did nothing to improve the tem, but also the spending on salaries is ludicrous. In these times of hardship they should be discussing how to make salaries more realistic, not forcing the lesser teams to simply shell out big money on a couple of players.

    What good is it to demand the Pirates to shell out $140 million to Carl Crawford? Who does it help? The city? would the stadium be any more full wiht Carl batting .250 or .400 for that matter.

    Perhaps there should be a clause that if a team takes the luxury tax money, a certain percent of it must be used to raise their player budget level. It's hard to sympathize with teams that are making an ton of money, but not fielding good teams. Some are making money and not even drawing fans.

    I do not think there should be a cap on player's salaries anymore than oprah should be capped, or movies stars, or rock stars. This is America. Busuiness success is often associated with location. If teams can't cut the mustard in a certain locale, then they should move or fold, like any other business does.
     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from Bad-Scene-. Show Bad-Scene-'s posts

    Re: Forum Ego vs. Enjoying your Team

    In Response to Re: Forum Ego vs. Enjoying your Team:
    [QUOTE]Last winter, the stakes rose as season ticket/TV revenue was dropping significantly. Once the commitment was made to slug it out with NY in a monetary ring, the inevitable result would be over-paying and/or over-estimating a limited talent pool. NY set this ridiculous standard. The commissioner/union won't change the landscape. And the fans continue to support this lunacy. Pike knew this thread would shift to fan rivalry. That's why he started it. He used Smiley in the same fashion. Pike is a menace.
    Posted by harness[/QUOTE]

    Well put but FYI Kim is Pike.....anything Zac has posted toward "Kim" has been well deserved because Pike is such a menace.
     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from pschuller. Show pschuller's posts

    Re: Forum Ego vs. Enjoying your Team

    In Response to Re: Forum Ego vs. Enjoying your Team : Yeah, it makes me think....that some people believe there is only one definition for fan loyalty, which is never to question or critique. When did it happen that in a forum devoted to a Boston team, the same city that started the American Revolution, that the legitimate expression of a person's opinion made him or her a disloyal fan (or for that matter, not even a fan at all)?
    Posted by pschuller


    Are we breaking out Freedom of Speech to defend criticism? And can't others invoke that same freedom to criticize you?

    As for the "loyalty" thing, it is one thing to criticize the team management, but the ones that bother me the most are the ones who think they actually are on equal footing and know the inner workings. They repeatedly make baseless allegations simply because they cannot think up any other possibility. They say stupid things like "Francona just wants to be buddies with the players" without having anywhere near the clue they think they do. If they get bashed round and round for that opinion, I have no problem with that.

    There are other critics, most notably lately a fellow named trouts, who frequently gets frustrated with Francona, but has lately resorted to only asking questions when he starts threads, as opposed to assuming he knows all the answers. He does add some condescension on occasion, but has certainly been keeping it accusation-free and idiotic assumption-free. And when he makes posts like that, I answer him far more civilly and to the best of my knowledge, as limited as that can be at times.... 


    I have no problem with other people CRITIQUING my arguments, or even CRITICIZING (note distinction) me personally, as long as they use facts and rational thinking. Indeed, freedom of speech has two sides to it--the right to speak freely but also the responsibility to speak thoughtfully.                    
     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from BurritoT. Show BurritoT's posts

    Re: Forum Ego vs. Enjoying your Team

    moon nobody allows a team to fold, just like the banks "too big to fail," why was contraction killed?

    baseball is controlled by the union, sound familiar?
     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from Hfxsoxnut. Show Hfxsoxnut's posts

    Re: Forum Ego vs. Enjoying your Team

    It strikes me as a possibility, though only a possibility, that the Crawford & Werth contracts end up standing as the high point of free agent lunacy.  268 million dollars invested in two players who were really just above-average players, and who have in fact been frighteningly mediocre in the first seasons of their massive deals. 
     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from BeaconHill19. Show BeaconHill19's posts

    Re: Forum Ego vs. Enjoying your Team

    In Response to Re: Forum Ego vs. Enjoying your Team:
    [QUOTE]Last winter, the stakes rose as season ticket/TV revenue was dropping significantly. Once the commitment was made to slug it out with NY in a monetary ring, the inevitable result would be over-paying and/or over-estimating a limited talent pool. NY set this ridiculous standard. The commissioner/union won't change the landscape. And the fans continue to support this lunacy. Pike knew this thread would shift to fan rivalry. That's why he started it. He used Smiley in the same fashion. Pike is a menace.
    Posted by harness[/QUOTE]

    Too funny. The last thing that I was after was to start another cat fight over the difference in payrolls between Boston and New York. That topic has been the subject of at least one-hundred threads in the past. To the contrary, I would prefer to see fan rivalry pizzin contests greatly reduced in here since that is what brings Babe, Perkins, Mikey, Pinstripezac, Yazzer, and NHSteven to the forum to annoy Red Sox fans. I agree with Kim that those types should live in a Yankee forum and not here.

    I have no idea by what you mean by me "using Smiley". Smiley was entertaining to me since I am a Red Sox fan. I can see why his overstatement style would annoy Yankee fans but let's face it- this is a Red Sox forum, not a Yankee forum, and not a neutral forum. Neither should it be a fraternity or club with secret handshakes.

    The purpose of the thread had nothing to do about fan rivalry. It was about how online egos are cultivated and grow out of control and supersede loyalty, fandom, reason, logic, and tolerance. The egos make "fans" hate the ballplayers that they are supposed to be rooting for. Poster X who was for the Crawford or Lackey signings is scorned, ridiculed, and laughed at by fellow Red Sox fans for being wrong despite being a Red Sox fan. How wrong is that?
     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from BurritoT. Show BurritoT's posts

    Re: Forum Ego vs. Enjoying your Team

    wow a post with deep meaning, too bad you don't explain yourself better more often.
     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from Bad-Scene--. Show Bad-Scene--'s posts

    Re: Forum Ego vs. Enjoying your Team

    In Response to Re: Forum Ego vs. Enjoying your Team:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Forum Ego vs. Enjoying your Team : Too funny. The last thing that I was after was to start another cat fight over the difference in payrolls between Boston and New York. That topic has been the subject of at least one-hundred threads in the past. To the contrary, I would prefer to see fan rivalry pizzin contests greatly reduced in here since that is what brings Babe, Perkins, Mikey, Pinstripezac, and NHSteven to the forum to annoy Red Sox fans. I agree with Kim that those types should live in a Yankee forum and not here. I have no idea by what you mean by me "using Smiley". Smiley was entertaining to me since I am a Red Sox fan. I can see why his overstatement style would annoy Yankee fans but let's face it- this is a Red Sox forum, not a Yankee forum, and not a neutral forum. Neither should it be a fraternity or club with secret handshakes. The purpose of the thread had nothing to do about fan rivalry. It was about how online egos are cultivated and grow out of control and supersede loyalty, fandom, reason, logic, and tolerance. The egos make "fans" hate the ballplayers that they are supposed to be rooting for. Poster X who was for the Crawford or Lackey signings is scorned, ridiculed, and laughed at by fellow Red Sox fans for being wrong despite being a Red Sox fan. How wrong is that?
    Posted by BeaconHill19[/QUOTE]

    I love how you talk about ego since you're so humble with your opinions.
     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from harness. Show harness's posts

    Re: Forum Ego vs. Enjoying your Team

    In Response to Re: Forum Ego vs. Enjoying your Team:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Forum Ego vs. Enjoying your Team : Too funny. The last thing that I was after was to start another cat fight over the difference in payrolls between Boston and New York. That topic has been the subject of at least one-hundred threads in the past. To the contrary, I would prefer to see fan rivalry pizzin contests greatly reduced in here since that is what brings Babe, Perkins, Mikey, Pinstripezac, Yazzer, and NHSteven to the forum to annoy Red Sox fans. I agree with Kim that those types should live in a Yankee forum and not here. I have no idea by what you mean by me "using Smiley". Smiley was entertaining to me since I am a Red Sox fan. I can see why his overstatement style would annoy Yankee fans but let's face it- this is a Red Sox forum, not a Yankee forum, and not a neutral forum. Neither should it be a fraternity or club with secret handshakes. The purpose of the thread had nothing

    to do about fan rivalry.
    It was about how online egos are cultivated and grow out of control and supersede loyalty, fandom, reason, logic, and tolerance. The egos make "fans" hate the ballplayers that they are supposed to be rooting for. Poster X who was for the Crawford or Lackey signings is scorned, ridiculed, and laughed at by fellow Red Sox fans for being wrong despite being a Red Sox fan. How wrong is that?
    Posted by BeaconHill19[/QUOTE]


    You are so full of sh*t. You mentioned the RedSox/NY poster analogy in your OP.
    Tell me, why did you suddenly alter your OP?
    Wisely, Steve copied it before you changed it.

    You hide behind UR ego claim to mask stirring up the pot. Just as you used Smiley's thread to launch your invasion of privacy posts. You are on a ludicrous man-hunt all day long. Get some help.
     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from Pikeisawful. Show Pikeisawful's posts

    Re: Forum Ego vs. Enjoying your Team

    In Response to Re: Forum Ego vs. Enjoying your Team:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Forum Ego vs. Enjoying your Team : You are so full of sh*t. You mentioned the RedSox/NY poster analogy in your OP. Tell me, why did you suddenly alter your OP? Wisely, Steve copied it before you changed it. You hide behind UR ego claim to mask stirring up the pot. Just as you used Smiley's thread to launch your invasion of privacy posts. You are on a ludicrous man-hunt all day long. Get some help.
    Posted by harness[/QUOTE]

    Pike is a HUGE TROLL!!!!!!
     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from athens7676. Show athens7676's posts

    Re: Forum Ego vs. Enjoying your Team

    Contraction would be GREAT for baseball. There are to many cities that cannot(actually they all CAN support 80-100mil payrolls it's more that they WILL NOT) support a competitive team. I say contract to 24 teams, play 154 games and a best of 9 or best of 11 WS no divisions, just pennant and WS...that will never happen of course. Contract Baltimore, KC, Oakland, FLA, PIT, SD. (or sub in MINN, HOU, or TB[ they have a solid org., but the city and fans don't care at all about the team]) If you will not pay market value for players (and yes NYY, BOS, LA, NYM & PHI set the market... deal with it, as a Braves fan I have to every year, and we compete) then your city shouldn't have a team. These low payroll teams are a disgrace. Greedy owners who wont even take the money given to them by the high payroll teams (referred to as "luxury tax") to subsidize at least one player on their roster, and put it back into the team...they pocket it, along with the profit from the stadium they just bilked taxpayers into buying, and continue to run a terrible product out on the field. Salary Cap would be a joke.... a floor is a much better idea (imperfect as it is)
     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from law2009a. Show law2009a's posts

    Re: Forum Ego vs. Enjoying your Team

    m
     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from law2009a. Show law2009a's posts

    Re: Forum Ego vs. Enjoying your Team

    m
     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from ADG. Show ADG's posts

    Re: Forum Ego vs. Enjoying your Team

    Please. Enjoy a team with this payroll? A team that could have one of the biggest chokes in the history of baseball? A team with the worst pitching staff quite possibly in all of baseball right now? A $20M per year outfielder who stinks? A $17M per year pitcher with the worst ERA of any qualified starter in all of baseball? A rightfielder who plays quite a bit with a batting average just over the Mendoza line? A GM who's trading deadline acquisition is an off-injured player?


     

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