Francona More and More Showing His Discomfort With Wakefield on Roster

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from dannycater. Show dannycater's posts

    Re: Francona More and More Showing His Discomfort With Wakefield on Roster

    Tito is not an idiot, and at the same time, he is very careful what he says to the media. If you look at Tim's performance and when he was lifted (which I had no problem with at all for the timing), it just makes me wonder what exactly is in that Tito mind at times. He practically ruined Matt Albers by not even warming up a guy until the game had turned completely the Cubbies way. Yet, he had the troops waiting the moment Tim got in trouble in the 7th. I ask openly what the hell was the difference between trotting out Bard and Papelbon on Saturday as opposed to Sunday? If he threw one of those two, my guess is the Sox might have held on to Saturday's lead. Instead, he turned to Matt Albers 8th inning with absolutely no intention of pulling him with a short 3-1 lead.

    Getting back to why I started this thread, as everyone on this forum knows, I am one of the few who believe Tim is a valid, every day starter who was thrusted head-first into a no defined role, bullpen assignment. His 2010 season and 2011 has been a journey for Tim that many older players have to deal with. But in his case, effectiveness wasn't just "lost" by Wakefield. The confidence his manager (and his GM, again, would love to hear what is talked about Tim behind closed doors) has shown him is little in my opinion.

    This goes back to when Tim gave up a homer in extra innings v. Texas and then went virtually 3 weeks without hitting the mound again. He had several opportunities in 2010 and a few this year where Tim could have been used in a 4-inn, inning-eating relief job. In nearly every case, instead Tim was thrown into rout games for 1 or 2 innings. This year, then he was incredibly thrown into the Angels game in the 9th inning with the bases loaded 2 days after his first start of the year...say what????

    Tito's complete dart system with how he uses Wakefield only shows me what a competitor Tim really is. His Sunday gem is more reflective of what Tim has to offer more often than not, and what he was doing quite a bit between 2003-2009 when he was used exclusively as a starting pitcher. Is he going to do that every start? No, neither is Lester or Buchholz. 

    Tito goes into panic mode regarding Wakefield, yet Tito did nothing of the sort when Albers couldn't buy an out in a pressure situation. His double standards when it comes to pitchers is worth debating. Bard gives up back-to-back homers a few games ago, and most people, including Tito knew that is was just a bump that happens.

    Had that been Tim Wakefield giving up back-to-back homers, my guess is the entire board would have clamoured for his release and my guess is that the Sox would have been considering just that...releasing him. That's where Tim is under the gun now every time he pitches. It's stupid thinking. He will get bombed, maybe even next start. But his history is that he will come right back and throw 4 or 5 great starts after that. But there is no way the Sox will allow Tim the freedom to just sit in the 5th starter role again. Leave him alone, let him be Tim. Let him pitch and enjoy the rewards. He will come through like he has often done so his entire Sox career.

    I'm confident in Wakes, will always be confident in him. And he gives me every indication (despite questions about his age, his back, his effectiveness, he is no different now than he was when he was an All-Star in 2009.
     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from aussiewill. Show aussiewill's posts

    Re: Francona More and More Showing His Discomfort With Wakefield on Roster

    Wakefield has never been a problem for the Sox. He pitched brilliantly yesterday . he has pitched well all year, more or less. he certainly has out pitched Lackey and Dice K, well almost, Dice had back to back one hitters, to a degree. No comment on Lackey, he is the sacred cow at the moment. Other than he s..cks.
    Wake is a solid citizen, always has been. Underrated, unappreciated, un about whatever. He has been Good Bad and ugly. Sometimes all in the same game, but he has been there for along time, plugging, battling, scrapping, never giving in, Francona loves Tim as do most Red Sox fans, he has earned several, get out of jail free cards. It's not like he is on $142 million for 7 years, like you know who!!!
     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from DaffyDan. Show DaffyDan's posts

    Re: Francona More and More Showing His Discomfort With Wakefield on Roster

    Conspiracy theories are fun, but I just believe the team feels Timmy can still be effective, just not for 30 starts a year, or he wouldn't be on the roster. At 44 he just isn't as durable as he once was. 

    Using him in the pen and as a spot starter maximizes his effectiveness as he ages and bolsters younger pitchers who, like Dice, and Lackey don't have the flexibility to come out of the pen. 

    JMHO.

    -Daf. 
     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from SoxSoldRed. Show SoxSoldRed's posts

    Re: Francona More and More Showing His Discomfort With Wakefield on Roster

    Cubs had never seen the goofball pitcher. Hansack had a great start. He still managed to throw 2 wild pitches in 6.2 innings. He has been on the shelf for 11 days, so the old man was well rested in facing the NL Cubs.

    Wakefield's previous start against the Twins was a disaster. Give this guy the ball every 5 days, leave him in for about 6 innings, and he'll be in traction after two or three more starts. He will also get hammered if he faces AL team in those starts.

    Moving him back to the pen makes zero sense. But so does thinking he can pitch every 5 days in the rotation. As bad as Lackey is, he should return to the rotation. Aceves should remain in the rotation until DiceK returns.  
     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from aussiewill. Show aussiewill's posts

    Re: Francona More and More Showing His Discomfort With Wakefield on Roster

    When you talk about knuckleballers, Wake is right up there with Wilbur Wood (played against Wilbur in High School) Charlie Hough , The Neikro brothers, Hoyt Wilhelm, Eddie Fisher, Tom Candiotti, I know I missed a couple, my apologies.

    Wilhelm was the master, he retired at 49 , why you ask? Not because Hoyt couldn't get batters out, but because they would bunt him to death. He couldn't get off the mound fast enough, they still couldn't hit him, but they could bunt and he couldn't get them out. Sad because he was fun to watch.

    I was sitting out next to the visitors bullpen in Fenway 57-59 can't remember Wilhelm was warming up  for The White Sox, I was watching . The catcher had his mask on , that's right down over his face and Wilhelm was just warming up. Never saw a ball move like his knuckler, defied all the laws of physics. Ah yes he would probably be on $15 million today.

    Relevance? Wake may be just hitting his prime, Old knuckleballers get better with age. keep this guy around , you may be amazed, he could still win 300 games.
     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from SoxSoldRed. Show SoxSoldRed's posts

    Re: Francona More and More Showing His Discomfort With Wakefield on Roster

    300 games? Just hitting his prime? He'll be in traction if he goes every 5 days for the next few starts. He'll also get hammered against the AL, just like the Twins hammered him.
     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from DaffyDan. Show DaffyDan's posts

    Re: Francona More and More Showing His Discomfort With Wakefield on Roster

    180 wins in 410 starts the AL for a .535 winning percentage.

    But ONE game is the true measure. 

    Whatever... 

    -Daf. 
     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from maxbialystock. Show maxbialystock's posts

    Re: Francona More and More Showing His Discomfort With Wakefield on Roster

    Some long posts by dannycater on an abstruse point requiring several paragraphs of minute discussion about very little.  Wakefield is in fact on the roster and has done well as the occasional long reliever and starter. 
     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Francona More and More Showing His Discomfort With Wakefield on Roster

    Well done, danny. Great post.
     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from redsoxfan791. Show redsoxfan791's posts

    Re: Francona More and More Showing His Discomfort With Wakefield on Roster

    In Response to Francona More and More Showing His Discomfort With Wakefield on Roster:
    [QUOTE]I've always thought that Wakefield has been on Fracona's radar the past few years as someone he begrudgingly trusts. He likes the results when they are good from Tim, but basically he really showed his true colors in today's article about Salty "enjoying" catching Tim. Every quote is a negative from Tito..."when he keeps the ball up..." ... "I'm the one who panics" that a catcher can't receive his knucklers. It's obvious Tito just doesn't trust him to go out and throw 6 solid innings. He feels he has to have a "backup" reliever/starter for him. I think he just overmanages when Tim is on the hill...undermanages it seems when it comes to conventional relievers, who he just puts guys in bizarro spots. Maybe if he micro-managed the way he does with even throwing Wakefield (let's face it, he does everything he can to KEEP HIM OFF THE MOUND)...the extended breaks of service for Tim. Will he get bombed today? That's Tito's mindset. Instead of, here's a guy who has for years and years thrown big games at big times in clutch spots. ... Epstein has a PR nightmare in that you don't release Wakefield right now, something I'm sure if it were up to Francona, would have been done in the offseason. Tito did not want to use Lowell last year, until he was basically out of options from a depth standpoint. I feel Wakefield is 2010 Lowell....
    Posted by dannycater[/QUOTE]

    This is a little crazy even for you, DC.  The "trust" issue is not with Wakefield but with the catchers being able to catch the knuckleball.  Do you remember when the Red Sox traded for Doug Mirabelli back in 2005, solely so he could catch Wakefield? 

    Furthermore, you're so willing to jump to a player's defense out of loyalty and longevity, rather than for performance reasons.  I love Wake as much as the next guy, but the simple fact remains that he hasn't deserved to amass starters innings or high leverage reliever innings for a couple of years now.  The performance just isn't there.
     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from southpaw777. Show southpaw777's posts

    Re: Francona More and More Showing His Discomfort With Wakefield on Roster

    So far Wake has looked great in 2 of 3 games(starts) this year...He looked good last night, so credit is deserved. But Im sure the "haters
     will find something to whine about due to their personal hatred for one player..its pretty pathetic. basically Timmy has saved this team 2 games this year starting. Nothing negative about that IMO.
     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Francona More and More Showing His Discomfort With Wakefield on Roster

    Most teams are happy if their 5/6 starter puts their team in a position to win in 40-50% of his starts. Wake has done that now in 13 out of 22 starts since 2010.
     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from Bill-806. Show Bill-806's posts

    Re: Francona More and More Showing His Discomfort With Wakefield on Roster

      LIKES HIM A LITTLE MORE TODAY !!!
     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from jimdavis. Show jimdavis's posts

    Re: Francona More and More Showing His Discomfort With Wakefield on Roster

    In Response to Re: Francona More and More Showing His Discomfort With Wakefield on Roster:
    [QUOTE]Cubs had never seen the goofball pitcher. Hansack had a great start. He still managed to throw 2 wild pitches in 6.2 innings. He has been on the shelf for 11 days, so the old man was well rested in facing the NL Cubs. Wakefield's previous start against the Twins was a disaster. Give this guy the ball every 5 days, leave him in for about 6 innings, and he'll be in traction after two or three more starts. He will also get hammered if he faces AL team in those starts. Moving him back to the pen makes zero sense. But so does thinking he can pitch every 5 days in the rotation. As bad as Lackey is, he should return to the rotation. Aceves should remain in the rotation until DiceK returns.  
    Posted by SoxSoldRed[/QUOTE]

    No one said Wake should get the ball every five days for the season, Softy.  He is perfect in the spot starter roll and shined last night despite you trying to minimize the performance.  Whether or not the Cubs had ever seen him is irrelevant as the Sox try to climb to the top.  It was a big win and won the series. Because you don't like it makes it even sweeter.  Plus Lowrie continues to hit and Ellsbury is performing well.  Bad week in Softy's world.
     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from playball01. Show playball01's posts

    Re: Francona More and More Showing His Discomfort With Wakefield on Roster

    In Response to Re: Francona More and More Showing His Discomfort With Wakefield on Roster:
    [QUOTE]1. Cubs had never seen the goofball pitcher. Hansack had a great start. He still managed to throw 2 wild pitches in 6.2 innings. He has been on the shelf for 11 days, so 2. the old man was well rested in facing the NL Cubs. Wakefield's previous start against the Twins was a disaster. Give this guy the ball every 5 days, leave him in for about 6 innings, and 3. he'll be in traction after two or three more starts. He will also get hammered if he faces AL team in those starts. 4. Moving him back to the pen makes zero sense. But so does thinking he can pitch every 5 days in the rotation. 5. As bad as Lackey is, he should return to the rotation. Aceves should remain in the rotation 6. until DiceK returns.  
    Posted by SoxSoldRed[/QUOTE]

    1. Fortunately, Cubs fans haven't seen the "Goofball" writer either!

    2. The "Old Man" looked pretty damn good against the Cubbie Kids.

    3. One would hope that the writer's fingers would be put in traction after this post.

    4. Correct, he shouldn't be moved back to the pen but should stay in the rotation.

    5. Lackey should be sent to the minors in order to work on his mechanics before returning back to the majors.

    6. Dice-K's Gyroball antics have been proven worthless against MLB hitters and the pitcher may be looking at Tommy John surgery. If such isn't the case then the pitcher should be moved to a West Coast National League team. His act no longer plays well in the AL East and he is too stressful/inconsistent to watch.
     
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  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from BOSOX1941. Show BOSOX1941's posts

    Re: Francona More and More Showing His Discomfort With Wakefield on Roster

    dannycater, excellent post.
     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from BurritoT. Show BurritoT's posts

    Re: Francona More and More Showing His Discomfort With Wakefield on Roster

    In Response to Re: Francona More and More Showing His Discomfort With Wakefield on Roster:
    [QUOTE]So far Wake has looked great in 2 of 3 games(starts) this year...He looked good last night, so credit is deserved. But Im sure the "haters  will find something to whine about due to their personal hatred for one player..its pretty pathetic. basically Timmy has saved this team 2 games this year starting. Nothing negative about that IMO.
    Posted by southpaw777[/QUOTE]

    As laughable as CC and his 3 walk-off hits.... a new term I guess for those incapable of hitting walk off home-runs.  So Wake has saved us with two good starts?  What about all his other games?  Please break it down Captain Positive.
     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from Your-Echo. Show Your-Echo's posts

    Re: Francona More and More Showing His Discomfort With Wakefield on Roster

    Wake will now be a starter until Matsuzaka returns. What's the problem? The article that dannycater referred to had nothing in common with his OP. The statistics on opening day only justified Wake to be a spot starter behind the starting five.

     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from BurritoT. Show BurritoT's posts

    Re: Francona More and More Showing His Discomfort With Wakefield on Roster

    No, no they do not.
     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from jimdavis. Show jimdavis's posts

    Re: Francona More and More Showing His Discomfort With Wakefield on Roster

    In Response to Re: Francona More and More Showing His Discomfort With Wakefield on Roster:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Francona More and More Showing His Discomfort With Wakefield on Roster : As laughable as CC and his 3 walk-off hits .... a new term I guess for those incapable of hitting walk off home-runs.  So Wake has saved us with two good starts?  What about all his other games?  Please break it down Captain Positive.
    Posted by BurritoT[/QUOTE]

    The idea is to win the game.  CC helped the team do that.  Now the goal post gets moved and he's no good because they were not home runs.  Oh, I get it now.  If Pedey singles or doubles to drive in the game winner, its cool.  But if CC does it, it has to be a round tripper?  Thanks for clearing it all up for us.
     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from BurritoT. Show BurritoT's posts

    Re: Francona More and More Showing His Discomfort With Wakefield on Roster

    No - some are trying to justify that he has helped (saved) the team on 3 occasions, with complete disregard to the fact he has hurt them 10x as much.
     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from Your-Echo. Show Your-Echo's posts

    Re: Francona More and More Showing His Discomfort With Wakefield on Roster

    In Response to Re: Francona More and More Showing His Discomfort With Wakefield on Roster:
    [QUOTE]No - some are trying to justify that he has helped (saved) the team on 3 occasions, with complete disregard to the fact he has hurt them 10x as much.
    Posted by BurritoT[/QUOTE]


    You mean that some are being patient, tolerant, and reasonable and see the glass as half full and you see the same glass as half empty. You admitted on your Theo as a GM thread that you were stirring the pot and here you are again playing the same game here. Does it make your day?
     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from jimdavis. Show jimdavis's posts

    Re: Francona More and More Showing His Discomfort With Wakefield on Roster

    Who said he "saved" the team? Obviously, had he not gotten the hits the Sox still could have won those games.  The fact is that he did get the hits leaving no doubt.  The guy has struggled in his transition.  That is obvious.  However, in big spots, he came through.  All he can do is build on that.  Some of you won't let that happen.  I have said from the beginning, put him in LF and let him work it out.  He will help the team in other ways as it is a team game in the end. Or we can focus on the rough start forever and then nothing he does will be good enough.
     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from dannycater. Show dannycater's posts

    Re: Francona More and More Showing His Discomfort With Wakefield on Roster

    Moon has often backed up statistically what I'm driving at with Wakefield. He understands his importance and he too has confidence in Wakefield as, in my opinion, only a few people on this forum have in him. 

    The performance drop-off that so many are referring to was corrected when he got back surgery after dropping off in the latter half of 2009. Tim Thomas was nearly booed out of town last season, a year after winning the Vezina trophy for the B's. He got hip surgery, and voila, back to being a great goalie who stole the No. 1 job from Rask. Wakefield lost his job when THE SOX DECIDED TO TAKE HIS JOB AWAY...this happened in the offseason. He had a great spring training and was never even told flat out by Francona or Epstein that he was now the new No. 6 starter.

    We have no idea how effective he would have been had Lackey never been signed. In fact, whose to say he wouldn't have thrown 200 innings last year had he been given the No. 5 spot. He threw 75 pitches yesterday, and was pulled the moment he got into trouble. Name another starter on this team that Francona manages so closely, so scrutinizes over? Answer, no one. Reason? Who knows (age? fear?) because the day before he made it seem that Albers was the team's closer. Sacrificially lambing him even though two hitters in, we knew he had nothing to get the Cubs out.

    Again, if Wakefield gives up two hits in a row, the bullpen gets up immediately. If John Lackey gives up 9 runs on 10 hits and it's the fourth inning, there's probably still no one warming up. Lackey throws conventional and has sucked badly (yes, I know he has personal problems and it's tough on him). 

    It's a double standard, and it's been created by Francona/Epstein. There is no reason to coddle Tim Wakefield. Ask him. Ask him if he thinks 75 pitches taxed him last night....

    I'm sick of the haters and the other know-it-alls who think just because the Sox management thinks a certain way makes it completely correct and justified.



     
     

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