Francona More and More Showing His Discomfort With Wakefield on Roster

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from dannycater. Show dannycater's posts

    Re: Francona More and More Showing His Discomfort With Wakefield on Roster

    Wakefield has been mismanaged since the end of 2009...that is a fact.
     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from fivekatz. Show fivekatz's posts

    Re: Francona More and More Showing His Discomfort With Wakefield on Roster

    In Response to Re: Francona More and More Showing His Discomfort With Wakefield on Roster:
    [QUOTE]Wakefield has been mismanaged since the end of 2009...that is a fact.
    Posted by dannycater[/QUOTE]I am neither a Wake hater or Wake lover and I could not disagree more.

    He was a 43 year old man coming off of back surgery. It made sense to upgrade the rotation in the off season after 2009. Tim did not help his own cause in 2010. Due to injuries he was a starter to start the season and posted an ERA in 5's in 12 starts posting a 2-6 record. he then would not talk to Francona for a week when he was sent to the bullpen.

    For the record he isn't a great fit in the BP and yes I know a much weaker Rs team a decade earlier used him in that role. These aren't the Yawkey Trust RS.

    While many of Wake's most ardent fans obviously don't accept Tim's role as "6th Starter" Tim seems to have accepted it in 2011. And now with injuries his time comes into play again as it did in 2010.

    I think while a year older, Tim is also a year further along from back surgery and will be an asset in this role. Sadly any night he pitches like he did last night we will read on BDC how disrespected he is and on the nights he gets clobbered the haters will be out full force.

    Remarkably in both cases the secondary player in that drama will be Terry Francona.  
     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from dannycater. Show dannycater's posts

    Re: Francona More and More Showing His Discomfort With Wakefield on Roster

    katz, you are correct that Francona is the secondary player in that drama. But I think Wakefield deserved a little more respect coming out of ST 2010, and that's why Tim refused to speak to him for a week. He expected to start and it definitely was a setback for him to go to the pen after seven consecutive years of exclusively being a 5th or 4th starter. I don't think keeping a guy as an insurance policy is how you treat a guy with that much experience and ability to pitch big games. If they expected Lackey/Dice-K to be the starters, they should have had a real conversation with Tim to explain that maybe he should be traded to extend his career as a starter. The Sox are just lucky he is not an egomaniac like Lackey, and is a team-first player. That's why treating him like an 11th wheel is wrong.

     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from maxbialystock. Show maxbialystock's posts

    Re: Francona More and More Showing His Discomfort With Wakefield on Roster

    Gotta take fivekatz's side on this.  There have been periods when knowing Wakefield would start was fun because he usually could go several innings while keeping the opposing hitters guessing.  But then he started struggling in 2009 and 2010.    Until last year, Lackey wasn't like that.  He was a successful middle of the order starter for years.  Last year he struggled, but so did Beckett in 2006, his first year in the AL East.   So it was a reasonable assumption by Francona that Lackey and Matsuzaka would be his 4th and 5th starters. 

    How in the world can that be seen as not respecting Wakefield?  (There is, FYI, no such word as disrespect.)  He was and is the 6th starter.  Last night he was absolutely amazing, throwing 55 of 75 pitches for strikes and basically shutting down the Cubs for 6+ innings.  But those two doubles in the 7th were to me a harbinger of what could happen--over and above the 1 run that made the score 3-1--so I thought bringing in Bard was absolutely the right thing to do. 

    Most mangers, dannycater, will leave their starters in for 7 runs or so, not because they are trying to salvage their egos, but because they don't want to go to the bullpen too early and wear them out too.  That does not apply, of course, if the Sox have a big lead and the starter's collapse is helping close the gap.  That's why it was so easy for Lackey's ERA to climb over 8. 

    While I am not a constant booster of Wakefield at this stage, I do agree he was a good starter in the past and could hopefully be one this year.  I've been fine with him on the staff this year and am delighted when he pitches the way he did last night. 
     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from Your-Echo. Show Your-Echo's posts

    Re: Francona More and More Showing His Discomfort With Wakefield on Roster

    Didn't Max Bialystock get married to one of the Stepford wives in that box office sensation in 1975?
     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from fivekatz. Show fivekatz's posts

    Re: Francona More and More Showing His Discomfort With Wakefield on Roster

    In Response to Re: Francona More and More Showing His Discomfort With Wakefield on Roster:
    [QUOTE]katz, you are correct that Francona is the secondary player in that drama. But I think Wakefield deserved a little more respect coming out of ST 2010, and that's why Tim refused to speak to him for a week. He expected to start and it definitely was a setback for him to go to the pen after seven consecutive years of exclusively being a 5th or 4th starter. I don't think keeping a guy as an insurance policy is how you treat a guy with that much experience and ability to pitch big games. If they expected Lackey/Dice-K to be the starters, they should have had a real conversation with Tim to explain that maybe he should be traded to extend his career as a starter. The Sox are just lucky he is not an egomaniac like Lackey, and is a team-first player. That's why treating him like an 11th wheel is wrong.
    Posted by dannycater[/QUOTE]They weren't going to trade him. It is a business after all.

    When a situation is good for the team and good for the player that is the best situation possible. But whether it is the player when he is in FA or the team when they have contractual control the party with control is not going to subrogate their interests for the others.

    Now I don't expect athletes to be the most "grounded" or self aware souls. By their very nature they have to have a high level of belief that they are the right fit for any situation. But a 30 year old- Dice K with three years of contract left and a John Lackey 32 signed to 5 years were going to get the starts when healthy.

    If the RS did anything wrong, it wasn't not offering to trade Wakefield, it was not addressing the situation as ST started that year. But then again, Wake did leave ST as the starter and did not pitch well enough to put Dice K or Beckett out of the rotation.

    But if you complaint is that they kept him and did not trade him. your beef is with Epstein, not Francona. But from a strict sense of what the best baseball operations interests are of the Boston Red Sox, didn't he do the right thing for the RS? I submit last nights start as evidence.

    Just my take   
     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from maxbialystock. Show maxbialystock's posts

    Re: Francona More and More Showing His Discomfort With Wakefield on Roster

    I used to be a producer of Broadway plays, including my greatest hit, "Springtime for Hitler."  Unfortunately, I oversubscribed it on the assumption that it would bomb, so I did ten in the pen and now just watch baseball and blog.

    Back to Wakefield and Francona.  It would be very unusual for Francona not to respect any player because that is one of his hallmarks as a manager--treating all players with respect. 
     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from SpacemanEephus. Show SpacemanEephus's posts

    Re: Francona More and More Showing His Discomfort With Wakefield on Roster

    In Response to Re: Francona More and More Showing His Discomfort With Wakefield on Roster:
    [QUOTE]I used to be a producer of Broadway plays, including my greatest hit, "Springtime for Hitler."  Unfortunately, I oversubscribed it on the assumption that it would bomb, so I did ten in the pen and now just watch baseball and blog. Back to Wakefield and Francona.  It would be very unusual for Francona not to respect any player because that is one of his hallmarks as a manager--treating all players with respect. 
    Posted by maxbialystock[/QUOTE]

    right, i thought that was his worst trait, pandering to his players. No?
     
  9. This post has been removed.

     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from S5. Show S5's posts

    Re: Francona More and More Showing His Discomfort With Wakefield on Roster

    Having Wake on a short leash isn't being disrespectful (is that where the non-word 'disrespect' originated?). it's being realistic.  We've see that Wake either has it or he doesn't and it can come and go.  Another thing that isn't news is that it usually comes and/or goes between innings.  He'll have a great inning and then give up a crooked number in the next, then go back to throwing butterflies the next.  I don't know why, HE doesn't know why, but it happens. 

    In last night's game Wake was nursing a short lead, gave up a couple of doubles, and Tito went to the 'pen rather than hope that Wake could turn it around on the next batter.  By doing that he also allowed Wake to leave the mound with a positive opinion of what he'd done and that can carry over into his next start.

    My only question is why he allowed Bard to get four outs, knowing he may need him again tonight.
     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from georom4. Show georom4's posts

    Re: Francona More and More Showing His Discomfort With Wakefield on Roster

    the idea that Wake and not lackey shouldve been slotted in as the starter is revisionist (dumb) history

    Wake is good where he is...an occasional start, a long relief, mop up duty...what ever you need in a bind
     
  12. This post has been removed.

     

Share