Francona's easy going ways has damaged this club

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from georom4. Show georom4's posts

    Re: Francona's easy going ways has damaged this club

    hahahha M1A

    subject-verb agreement?????

    isnt there a private room for that kind of feel-around superiority? use it!
     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from Diamondtalk. Show Diamondtalk's posts

    Re: Francona's easy going ways has damaged this club

    Francona knows the game.    He's loyal to a fault with too many players.
     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from Alibiike. Show Alibiike's posts

    Re: Francona's easy going ways has damaged this club

    In Response to Re: Francona's easy going ways has damaged this club:
    hahahha M1A subject-verb agreement????? isnt there a private room for that kind of feel-around superiority? use it!
    Posted by georom4


    He do it all the time. Just ax 'im!
     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from xorsed. Show xorsed's posts

    Re: Francona's easy going ways has damaged this club

    Tito is a calm and laidback person & manager as we often see in the interviews he has. But do you really think that he is like that all the time with his players? Did any of you read that recent ESPN article about him? Somewhere near the bottom of the article it has a quote from Papelbon, in which he says that Tito has to "ream his a**", after he (Pap) speaks his mind to the media.
      Not exactly something an "easy-going manager whose damaging the team" would do. Tito just does his "reaming" behind the scenes instead of in public and his players are thankful for that. Nothing wrong with it at all.
     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from Baba-Yaga. Show Baba-Yaga's posts

    Re: Francona's easy going ways has damaged this club

    ............
     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from REDSOX-11. Show REDSOX-11's posts

    Re: Francona's easy going ways has damaged this club

    Most of the time they win when he doesn't have to make an important pitching decision. Usually that means a loss. That is what people are being critical about. Not hard to blow a 10-0 game, oh wait he did that one last year, soory 11-0 game.

    In Response to Re: Francona's easy going ways has damaged this club:
    The problem I have with many of those who criticize Francona at every turn is that when the Sox win, they claim the players won it, or that the Sox won IN SPITE OF Francona.  He is damned if he does and damned if he doesn't with these people.  Many of us that support Francona admit he is not perfect, no person is.  I have questioned some of his moves in the past, though I always admit he has more information about the situation, being at the game in the dugout talking with the players and other coaches, than I have sitting in my living room.  But I have said this before and will say it again, he knows how to manage THE SEASON.  He shows faith in his players and his players generally respond to that.   
    Posted by fizsh

     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from fivekatz. Show fivekatz's posts

    Re: Francona's easy going ways has damaged this club

    In Response to Re: Francona's easy going ways has damaged this club:
    Tito is a calm and laidback person & manager as we often see in the interviews he has. But do you really think that he is like that all the time with his players? Did any of you read that recent ESPN article about him? Somewhere near the bottom of the article it has a quote from Papelbon, in which he says that Tito has to "ream his a**", after he (Pap) speaks his mind to the media.   Not exactly something an "easy-going manager whose damaging the team" would do. Tito just does his "reaming" behind the scenes instead of in public and his players are thankful for that. Nothing wrong with it at all.
    Posted by xorsed
    Nice post.

    A lot of highly successful sports managers do this. Belichick who is a legend in this town almost never rips his players in the media. Red Auerbach was the same way. It is not just players that appreciate that "coaching and critique" takes place behind closed doors. Most of us appreciate it in our work too.

    Since it is impossible in any sport but football with its very short schedule to win every game you play in a season. Blaming the coach/manager for the losses is simple and comforting. Management can make a difference but in the end it is the players who determine the result. Look no further than Doc Rivers who was an idiot in 06-07 and a brilliant coach coming out of timeouts, who had implemented a tremendous defensive system, got three superstars to share the ball, turned the raw Rondo into a premier point guard and was a world champion.

    I suppose blaming a collective slump on the manager is more comforting than the accepting the reality that baseball can at moments be that humbling and cruel.
     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from Joebreidey. Show Joebreidey's posts

    Re: Francona's easy going ways has damaged this club

    In Response to Re: Francona's easy going ways has damaged this club:
    www.boston.com/community/persona.html?UID=a58b8cf388c7d2ac70d451af9b56564e&plckUserId=a58b8cf388c7d2ac70d451af9b56564e " target="_parent" /> Joebreidey Posts: 8664 First: 5/30/2008 Last: 4/17/2011 since our 2007 championship we have been trending downhill as our payroll has skyrocketed...the past 3 years our april has been maddening with the team and key players being unprepared for the entire first month...it is hurting us aND IT obvious that that apologists for our manager believe nothing is ever his faul t April, 2009 .636 April, 2010 .478 April 2011  .286 2010 .549 2009 .586 Lost LDS 3-0 2008 .586  lost Pennant 4-3 2007 - World Series Champs Joey, do you just post hoping people swallow your bs or do you actually believe the lies you post? here are the facts - sukk on it
    Posted by georom4


    Geo,

    Go back and read your own post.  The words are just above.

    You said our teams were unprepared to play.

    I posted our April records.

    You read this and decided to post our playoff record.

    Had you told me that me that "our april has been maddening with the team and key players being unprepared for the entire first month." meant the playoffs, I'd have couched it differently.

    Now, when did April start including the playoffs?
     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from Joebreidey. Show Joebreidey's posts

    Re: Francona's easy going ways has damaged this club

    And now that you ripped Tito's easy going way for damaging the club, are you going to give Tito credit for our current streak?

    Or are you going to conveniently forget it?

    Or will you come to the logical conclusion that Tito can't do much about Dice's complete meltdown any more than the opposing manager do anything his recent gem?

    Seriously, the idea that you'll rip Tito everytime we lose, and disappear everytime we win, is a tired act.
     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from Hfxsoxnut. Show Hfxsoxnut's posts

    Re: Francona's easy going ways has damaged this club

    In Response to Re: Francona's easy going ways has damaged this club:
    Most of the time they win when he doesn't have to make an important pitching decision. Usually that means a loss. That is what people are being critical about. Not hard to blow a 10-0 game, oh wait he did that one last year, soory 11-0 game. In Response to Re: Francona's easy going ways has damaged this club :
    Posted by REDSOX-11


    The Red Sox didn't blow any 10-0 or 11-0 leads last year.  
     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from fizsh. Show fizsh's posts

    Re: Francona's easy going ways has damaged this club

    Most of the time they win when he doesn't have to make an important pitching decision

    Like last night, deciding to use Papelbon on a third consecutive day.  He did the same with Jenks, who allowed one run (and Saltalamacchia allowed the other).  But, he kept Bard to close tonight if needed.  And speaking of Bard, how about using him in the 6th inning of the game the other day with basically the game on the line (bases loaded, 1 out, 4-1 game).  I am not sure there is another manager in the game that would use his best reliever so early in the game, even if that is when he is needed most.  You have to give him props for that.  I would say the last 3 wins the pitching decisions have been important, since all three were close games.

    If you are going to blame him for every loss, you have to give him credit for every win.  Again, I prefer to judge him over the course of the season rather than game by game.  An individual game here and there is not as important as where they wind up at the end of the season and how they got there.
     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from Joebreidey. Show Joebreidey's posts

    Re: Francona's easy going ways has damaged this club

    In Response to Re: Francona's easy going ways has damaged this club:
    In Response to Re: Francona's easy going ways has damaged this club : The Red Sox didn't blow any 10-0 or 11-0 leads last year.  
    Posted by Hfxsoxnut


    Red Sox 11 is trolling again.

    I think the biggest lead we blew was 6 runs.  Probably the vast majority of teams have blown 6-run leads.
     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from Hetchinspete. Show Hetchinspete's posts

    Re: Francona's easy going ways has damaged this club

    In Response to Francona's easy going ways has damaged this club:
    I give our skipper props for being the only person on the planet who could have overcome a 0-3 deficit in the playoffs...his lack of concern and looseness in that situation is exactly what is called for but... It is also the bane of our current existence when spring training is totally wasted on being a club-med for veterans and when we play like we our now - without passion and urgency. He needs to kick some azz to light a fire or he will be history in less than a month.
    Posted by georom4


    Bull Sh-t,

    Were you there to see a club med atmosphere yourself and where's your evidence to make that accusation. Other idiots and trolls writing the same thing !! From what I've read  from folks who actually attended ST games and saw some of ST, the veterans worked out, etc as usual.Give us some actual evidence before posting such lunacy. 

    And where do you get away with this garbage "lack of concern". Total cr-p. Because Tito doesn't go out and scream at umpires like Weaver use to do, or doesn't go public with displeasure about his teams play. Sorry if that's not Terry's style, but he's restrained and it's obvious his players respect him for it. It's the same style we praise Bill Belichek for. They keep things in house and I don't see anyone groaning about BB's lack of concern.   

    Hetchinspete.  
     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from georom4. Show georom4's posts

    Re: Francona's easy going ways has damaged this club

    are you men nuts?? we are 4 games under .500 despite winning 6 of 7 - what the heck does that tell you about 'Coma's prep of the team?

    You think this April record is acceptable or commendable for a team this talented?

    Stop the bootlicking - I could manage this team to 95 victories
     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from BOSOX1941. Show BOSOX1941's posts

    Re: Francona's easy going ways has damaged this club

    In Response to Re: Francona's easy going ways has damaged this club:
    Most of the time they win when he doesn't have to make an important pitching decision Like last night, deciding to use Papelbon on a third consecutive day.  He did the same with Jenks, who allowed one run (and Saltalamacchia allowed the other).  But, he kept Bard to close tonight if needed.  And speaking of Bard, how about using him in the 6th inning of the game the other day with basically the game on the line (bases loaded, 1 out, 4-1 game).  I am not sure there is another manager in the game that would use his best reliever so early in the game, even if that is when he is needed most.  You have to give him props for that.  I would say the last 3 wins the pitching decisions have been important, since all three were close games. If you are going to blame him for every loss, you have to give him credit for every win.  Again, I prefer to judge him over the course of the season rather than game by game.  An individual game here and there is not as important as where they wind up at the end of the season and how they got there.
    Posted by fizsh

     His credit for the team winning is called salary, he's paid well to help the team win games.
    There aren't a lot of games where a manager has to make a decision that will change a potential loss into a win. There shouldn't be many games where a manager makes nonsense decisions that have a negative impact on a game's outcome.
    If the front office decided to BONUS Francona for every decision that had a positive impact on the outcome of a game and FINE him every time he makes a decision that has a negative impact on the outcome of a game, he'd be in the red after a minimum of 3 games and just keep going deeper in the negative hole.
     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from zack5042. Show zack5042's posts

    Re: Francona's easy going ways has damaged this club

    In Response to Re: Francona's easy going ways has damaged this club:
    are you men nuts?? we are 4 games under .500 despite winning 6 of 7 - what the heck does that tell you about 'Coma's prep of the team? You think this April record is acceptable or commendable for a team this talented? Stop the bootlicking - I could manage this team to 95 victories
    Posted by georom4

    Yeah facing a teeball team. I bet you couldnt even manage this team to 80 wins let alone 95. We are four games under .500 and 1 game out of second place. what does this say about Maddon? is he bad too? So now all of a sudden two of the best managers in baseball are bad because of a slow start? I think not. If you or anybody else that is talking bad about Francona were the manager then I bet bard would be heading out for tommy john surgery because how much you over used him. Face the facts you cant use your best relief pitcher everyday. So when you see him going with certain guys you have to know hes doing it for a reason. Believe me if Francona could let Bard and Papelbon throw 35 pitches a day with out risk of injury he would.
     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from mrmini. Show mrmini's posts

    Re: Francona's easy going ways has damaged this club

    Zack,,, give me a break
    Franconas payroll 160 - 170 M

    Maddons payroll 45M

    (125M diff) I would think that should make you a better team.
     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from Hfxsoxnut. Show Hfxsoxnut's posts

    Re: Francona's easy going ways has damaged this club

    In Response to Re: Francona's easy going ways has damaged this club:
    are you men nuts?? we are 4 games under .500 despite winning 6 of 7 - what the heck does that tell you about 'Coma's prep of the team? You think this April record is acceptable or commendable for a team this talented? Stop the bootlicking - I could manage this team to 95 victories
    Posted by georom4


    You don't judge a team by how they start but by how they finish.  Players have slumps and teams have slumps.  Do you really think Francona's lack of preparation has anything to do with Crawford still hitting under .150? 
     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from Joebreidey. Show Joebreidey's posts

    Re: Francona's easy going ways has damaged this club

    In Response to Re: Francona's easy going ways has damaged this club:
    are you men nuts?? we are 4 games under .500 despite winning 6 of 7 - what the heck does that tell you about 'Coma's prep of the team? You think this April record is acceptable or commendable for a team this talented? Stop the bootlicking - I could manage this team to 95 victories
    Posted by georom4


    Are you saying every manager that had a good team, should get fired for a slow start?  Gardenhire, who many consider the best in the game, has a worse record.  Atl and Cincy gonna fire their managers?  Maddon started off 2-8.  Isn't that the magic number for firing someone?

    Anything could happen tonight, but right now, we're the hottest team in BB, and managers of the hottest team in BB don't get fired.
     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from georom4. Show georom4's posts

    Re: Francona's easy going ways has damaged this club

    really, comparing the sox team to TB? did you not read the previous post? did i say he shoudve been fired? read the initial post...

    if the sox end up missing the playoffs again for the 2nd straight yr, will some of you 'Coma apologists admit that our April cost us the season?

    I repeat this with all sincerity - I could manage these guys to 95 wins
     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from Hfxsoxnut. Show Hfxsoxnut's posts

    Re: Francona's easy going ways has damaged this club

    In Response to Re: Francona's easy going ways has damaged this club:
    really, comparing the sox team to TB? did you not read the previous post? did i say he shoudve been fired? read the initial post... if the sox end up missing the playoffs again for the 2nd straight yr, will some of you 'Coma apologists admit that our April cost us the season? I repeat this with all sincerity - I could manage these guys to 95 wins
    Posted by georom4


    We've got significant problems at catcher, we've got Crawford hitting .135 and Ellsbury hitting .190.  Personally I don't think Francona is at fault for things like that.
     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from Joebreidey. Show Joebreidey's posts

    Re: Francona's easy going ways has damaged this club

    In Response to Re: Francona's easy going ways has damaged this club:
    really, comparing the sox team to TB? did you not read the previous post? did i say he shoudve been fired? read the initial post... if the sox end up missing the playoffs again for the 2nd straight yr, will some of you 'Coma apologists admit that our April cost us the season? I repeat this with all sincerity - I could manage these guys to 95 wins
    Posted by georom4


    Many people thought TB would win about 85 games.  He started off 2-8.  MN figured for about 90.  You need to be consistent and fire everyone.  NYY lost 8-10 at one point, so Giradi has to be fired.  MN lost 9-11 at one point, so Gardy is gone.  TX likeise lost 8-10, so Washington is gone.  The SFG lost 9-11, so now both WS managed are forked.  Phil lost 9-11, so their manager is fried, and Atl lost 9 in a row, so that about takes out all the PO managers.

    The problem with y'all is that you don't understand numbers.  With 162 games to play, virtually every team loses 5 in a row.  That makes an 8-10 relatively easy.
     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from georom4. Show georom4's posts

    Re: Francona's easy going ways has damaged this club

    i agree w/u Joey - 'Coma is not even in the top 3 of our problems...but if this slow start comes back to haunt us, I want you to be the first to say he didnt do his job well enough in the early months
     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from JamaicaPlain67. Show JamaicaPlain67's posts

    Re: Francona's easy going ways has damaged this club

    I won't waste my time arguing with Georom as if he is serious because I am sure that he is putting on an act. For some reason he enjoys copying the routine that BaseballDr and Bosox1941 do here. They all get highly amused by it - especially the J. Fred Muggs line. You who argue with these three are being very gullible for taking the bait on a regular basis. Redsoxfan791 during the week wrote that BDC regulars are too easy to fool.
     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from harness. Show harness's posts

    Re: Francona's easy going ways has damaged this club

    No, Geo is speaking his mind. It's no act. Can he lead this team to 95 victories? Well, he's not been put in that position. Tito is, so he obviously has the qualifications. If he doesn't, then the blame goes to the FO.

    This has been a successful Ownership. They hired a GM who has predicated a strong farm system.
    This has allowed the team the leverage to overspend in some areas when deemed necessasry.

    Tito is a part of this mindset. He manages for a series, not a game.
    He manages for a season, not a series. His philosophy jives with a very successful operation.  This is what Geo is missing. He is taking a part of Tito's managing and magnifying it without seeing the rest of it.

    I happen to agree with him on this one  - that Tito's style has to share in the responsibilities of preparing his players out of the gate. I can't prove it, but I do think the absence of Mills played a major part. Is that on Tito? Yes. The ultimate responsibility is his.

    However, if Tito's responsible for a horse stumbling out of the gate, he's also responsible for how the team plays under pressure. And his track record in this area shows his assets still outweigh his shortcomings.

    Until that changes, he will be managing this tream.
    Those that have legit beefs about his managerial philosophy are coming up short themselves if they can't see this.
     
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