Fred Lynn and one of the worst trades in history

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from Hfxsoxnut. Show Hfxsoxnut's posts

    Fred Lynn and one of the worst trades in history

    Fred Lynn joined the Red Sox in late 1974.  In 1975 he was Rookie of the Year and MVP.  In his Red Sox career, which lasted until 1980, Lynn played 828 games, hitting .308/.383/.520 with 124 HR and 521 RBI, an OPS of .902 and an OPS+ of 140. 

    Lynn won 6 Gold Gloves and was an All-Star 6 straight times with the Red Sox.

    In January, 1981, in arguably one of the worst trades in baseball history, Lynn was traded to the California Angels for the thoroughly washed-up pair of Frank Tanana and Joe Rudi.

    Tanana went 4-10 with a 4.01 ERA for the Sox.  Rudi played only 49 games, hitting .180.  At the end of 1981 they were both free agents and were gone.

    Lynn went on to 3 All-Star appearances for the Angels.  In the 1982 ALCS, a 5-game loss to Milwaukee, Lynn went 11 for 18.

    His career ended in 1990.  His final numbers were .283/.360/.484 with 306 HR and 1,111 RBI.

    Lynn remains one of my alltime favorite Red Sox players.  Along with his superb offensive numbers, he was a brilliant centre fielder with an endless string of highlight-reel catches.  He was just fun to watch.  When he was traded I was disgusted.  To this day I still can't get over the series of boneheaded moves that dismantled the great Red Sox teams of the late Seventies.      
     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from fivekatz. Show fivekatz's posts

    Re: Fred Lynn and one of the worst trades in history

    Let's remember the RS weren't trading Lynn out of a desire to move him. Lynn's, Burleson's and Fisk's contracts were delivered a day late to them, effectively making them FA.

    Fisk did not give the RS the time of day, moving on quickly to sign as an FA with the Pale Hose. Burleson and Lynn allowed the RS a chance to trade them but they weren't dealing from a position of strength while trading, because those guys could block anything and the other parties knew it too.

    Now it was totally stupid that those contracts were delivered late and causing the RS to surrender their control.

    But the trade did not work out great for Lynn who had some nice years in Anaheim but did miss 81 games in Fenway.

    Lynn was one of my favorites too. he wasn't just productive, he was beautiful to watch play in the OF. I never saw Joe Dimaggio live but I get why old timers who did say you had to see him to get it because to me that was Fred Lynn playing CF.


     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from Hfxsoxnut. Show Hfxsoxnut's posts

    Re: Fred Lynn and one of the worst trades in history

    Thanks for that info, fivekatz, I forgot about the details of why they traded Lynn.  Still idiotic, just a different type of idiocy.
     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from fivekatz. Show fivekatz's posts

    Re: Fred Lynn and one of the worst trades in history

    Haywood Sullivan was awful Hfx, no doubt about it.
     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from ADG. Show ADG's posts

    Re: Fred Lynn and one of the worst trades in history

    In Response to Re: Fred Lynn and one of the worst trades in history:
    Let's remember the RS weren't trading Lynn out of a desire to move him. Lynn's, Burleson's and Fisk's contracts were delivered a day late to them, effectively making them FA. Fisk did not give the RS the time of day, moving on quickly to sign as an FA with the Pale Hose. Burleson and Lynn allowed the RS a chance to trade them but they weren't dealing from a position of strength while trading, because those guys could block anything and the other parties knew it too. Now it was totally stupid that those contracts were delivered late and causing the RS to surrender their control. But the trade did not work out great for Lynn who had some nice years in Anaheim but did miss 81 games in Fenway. Lynn was one of my favorites too. he wasn't just productive, he was beautiful to watch play in the OF. I never saw Joe Dimaggio live but I get why old timers who did say you had to see him to get it because to me that was Fred Lynn playing CF.
    Posted by fivekatz


    Haywood Sullivan = Awful  
     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from william93063. Show william93063's posts

    Re: Fred Lynn and one of the worst trades in history

    In Response to Re: Fred Lynn and one of the worst trades in history:
    Haywood Sullivan was awful Hfx, no doubt about it.
    Posted by fivekatz



    Somewhere in Sully's alcohol addled brain he had it in his mind that his son Marc Sullivan could replace the iconic Pudge Fisk behind the plate!  This tells you everything you need to know about the Haywood Sullivan/Buddy(loan shark) Leroux years as possibly the worst in sox history from a management perspective!  Ralph Houk had some respectable seasons with barely a AAA lineup much of the time.  Tom Burgmeier out of the pen was one great performer in that era.  Carney Lansford's batting title in 1982 another.
     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from andrewmitch. Show andrewmitch's posts

    Re: Fred Lynn and one of the worst trades in history

    Fisk was a huge blunder; we got nada for him

    Lynn netted us 2 really good players in return
     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from andrewmitch. Show andrewmitch's posts

    Re: Fred Lynn and one of the worst trades in history

    Carney was great.....Reid Nichols had a good year.   Rick Miller was Pinch Hitting Machine........Gary Allenson was a heads up ballplayer (bunting w the bases loaded to win a game and pounding the heck out of Kent Hrbeck after a play at the plate)......
     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from william93063. Show william93063's posts

    Re: Fred Lynn and one of the worst trades in history

    In Response to Re: Fred Lynn and one of the worst trades in history:
    Carney was great.....Reid Nichols had a good year.   Rick Miller was Pinch Hitting Machine........Gary Allenson was a heads up ballplayer (bunting w the bases loaded to win a game and pounding the heck out of Kent Hrbeck after a play at the plate)......
    Posted by andrewmitch


    Rick Miller had a second career in his second tour with the sox as a pinch hitter extraordinaire, Pigpen Dwyer had a great run as well.

     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from jimdavis. Show jimdavis's posts

    Re: Fred Lynn and one of the worst trades in history

    Lynn was the man.  I used to mimic his batting stance in wiffle ball sliding my hand up the bat in preparation for the pitch.
     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from Your-Echo. Show Your-Echo's posts

    Re: Fred Lynn and one of the worst trades in history

    In Response to Re: Fred Lynn and one of the worst trades in history:
    Fisk was a huge blunder; we got nada for him Lynn netted us 2 really good players in return
    Posted by andrewmitch


    Tanana and Rudi?
     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from Hfxsoxnut. Show Hfxsoxnut's posts

    Re: Fred Lynn and one of the worst trades in history

    There is a catch Lynn made that I wish I had on video.  It was a Saturday nationally televised game in either Minnesota or Chicago I think.  Somebody hit a bomb to centre field, Lynn sprinted back, leaped at the wall, reached over the fence to catch it and snapped his glove back with the ball in it.  Absolutely amazing play, one of the best I've ever seen.  They used to replay it quite a bit.  
     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from jimdavis. Show jimdavis's posts

    Re: Fred Lynn and one of the worst trades in history

    In Response to Re: Fred Lynn and one of the worst trades in history:
    There is a catch Lynn made that I wish I had on video.  It was a Saturday nationally televised game in either Minnesota or Chicago I think.  Somebody hit a bomb to centre field, Lynn sprinted back, leaped at the wall, reached over the fence to catch it and snapped his glove back with the ball in it.  Absolutely amazing play, one of the best I've ever seen.  They used to replay it quite a bit.  
    Posted by Hfxsoxnut


    They used that play on This Week in Baseball every week.
     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from harness. Show harness's posts

    Re: Fred Lynn and one of the worst trades in history

    In Response to Re: Fred Lynn and one of the worst trades in history:
    Let's remember the RS weren't trading Lynn out of a desire to move him. Lynn's, Burleson's and Fisk's contracts were delivered a day late to them, effectively making them FA. Fisk did not give the RS the time of day, moving on quickly to sign as an FA with the Pale Hose. Burleson and Lynn allowed the RS a chance to trade them but they weren't dealing from a position of strength while trading, because those guys could block anything and the other parties knew it too. Now it was totally stupid that those contracts were delivered late and causing the RS to surrender their control. But the trade did not work out great for Lynn who had some nice years in Anaheim but did miss 81 games in Fenway. Lynn was one of my favorites too. he wasn't just productive, he was beautiful to watch play in the OF. I never saw Joe Dimaggio live but I get why old timers who did say you had to see him to get it because to me that was Fred Lynn playing CF.
    Posted by fivekatz


    You conveniently left out the most important fact: The owner felt the demands of those three - and their impending FA potential - had the team over a $$$ barrel. And no way they were gonna allow that to set a team precedent. Yaz never walked. Always worked things out. Same for Rice. They simply took a short-sighted mgmt. vs. labor position with Fisk/Lynn/Burleson...and lost.
    The late contracts were likely by design.
     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from jimdavis. Show jimdavis's posts

    Re: Fred Lynn and one of the worst trades in history

    The Lynn catch with Brian Downing flailing away was a great one too.
     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from Hfxsoxnut. Show Hfxsoxnut's posts

    Re: Fred Lynn and one of the worst trades in history

    In Response to Re: Fred Lynn and one of the worst trades in history:
    In Response to Re: Fred Lynn and one of the worst trades in history : They used that play on This Week in Baseball every week.
    Posted by jimdavis


    That's the one.
     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from jimdavis. Show jimdavis's posts

    Re: Fred Lynn and one of the worst trades in history

    In Response to Re: Fred Lynn and one of the worst trades in history:
    In Response to Re: Fred Lynn and one of the worst trades in history : That's the one.
    Posted by Hfxsoxnut


    I loved that catch.  He made defense cool.
     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from Your-Echo. Show Your-Echo's posts

    Re: Fred Lynn and one of the worst trades in history

    In Response to Re: Fred Lynn and one of the worst trades in history:
    In Response to Re: Fred Lynn and one of the worst trades in history : You conveniently left out the most important fact: The owner felt the demands of those three - and their impending FA potential - had the team over a $$$ barrel. And no way they were gonna allow that to set a team precedent. Yaz never walked. Always worked things out. Same for Rice. They simply took a short-sighted mgmt. vs. labor position with Fisk/Lynn/Burleson...and lost. The late contracts were likely by design.
    Posted by harness

    Is this FACT supported in anything that you have ever read or is it merely conjecture or pure speculation on your part. I do not come here to read speculation. If you worked in the FO or knew someone who did then that is real news otherwise it is just BS. I never make statements like you do. I was terribly sad to see those players leave but never looked for a scapegoat unless iron-clad facts were available.

     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from harness. Show harness's posts

    Re: Fred Lynn and one of the worst trades in history

    In Response to Re: Fred Lynn and one of the worst trades in history:
    In Response to Re: Fred Lynn and one of the worst trades in history : Is this FACT supported in anything that you have ever read or is it merely conjecture or pure speculation on your part. I do not come here to read speculation. If you worked in the FO or knew someone who did then that is real news otherwise it is just BS. I never make statements like you do. I was terribly sad to see those players leave but never looked for a scapegoat unless iron-clad facts were available.
    Posted by Your-Echo


    I remember the scenario, because like many here, it wasn't a happy time for Sox fans. Management wouldn't give in to a team potentially enslaved by Free Agency. That was the thought process then. The fact the trade took place validates their position.
     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from PawsoxPhil. Show PawsoxPhil's posts

    Re: Fred Lynn and one of the worst trades in history

    How about what Katz said which inferred that it might have been a office clerical error. What Free agents did they sign in those years?
     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from nhsteven. Show nhsteven's posts

    Re: Fred Lynn and one of the worst trades in history

    If it wasn't for the injuries, IMO Lynn would have been a HOFer; after he left the RS, and as a result of those injuries, he was merely a good player, not the great player he was before; the RS probably knew this, but it was still a dumb trade.
     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from royf19. Show royf19's posts

    Re: Fred Lynn and one of the worst trades in history

    Actually only Fisk's contract was sent out too late, which is why he became a free agent.

    Lynn and Burleson were traded outright.

    The Lynn trade was truly horrible. He went with Steve Renko for Tanana and Rudi and Jim Dorsey. Rudi was over-the-hill at that point. Tanana was bad with the Sox but did have some decent years with Detroit.

    The Burleson trade was better. He went with Hobson for Mark Clear, Rick Miller and Carney Lansford. All three at decent years in Boston.

    But the main point of this thread should be how BAD Haywood Sullivan was as GM. He ruined that team that Dick O'Connell built.

     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from expitch. Show expitch's posts

    Re: Fred Lynn and one of the worst trades in history

    Fred Lynn was recruited by USC as a defensive back. Looking back, he said that after the first few times one of those power runners literally flattened him, he decided that centerfield was a safer territory. Rod said to alums, "Wait till you see this kid."  We saw, and we believed.
     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from harness. Show harness's posts

    Re: Fred Lynn and one of the worst trades in history

    In Response to Re: Fred Lynn and one of the worst trades in history:
    How about what Katz said which inferred that it might have been a office clerical error. What Free agents did they sign in those years?
    Posted by PawsoxPhil


    Logistically, it could be called "clerical error". But the bottom line is what occurred.
    If all three were willing to re-sign to 'team friendly deals' to stay in Boston, they would have. They would not have let a "clerical error" stand in their way.

    Those who recall how the press followed this know differently. The two sides could not get together. And the FO wasn't gonna give in. It's not so much what players were getting on the open market at the time as it was the leverage the players held over management.

    As I stated, the decision proved to be short-sighted. The decision to lose out on a talent like Willie Mays and side with segregation was also a huge miscalculation.
     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from PawsoxPhil. Show PawsoxPhil's posts

    Re: Fred Lynn and one of the worst trades in history

    In Response to Re: Fred Lynn and one of the worst trades in history:
    In Response to Re: Fred Lynn and one of the worst trades in history : Logistically, it could be called "clerical error". But the bottom line is what occurred. If all three were willing to re-sign to 'team friendly deals' to stay in Boston, they would have. They would not have let a "clerical error" stand in their way. Those who recall how the press followed this know differently. The two sides could not get together. And the FO wasn't gonna give in. It's not so much what players were getting on the open market at the time as it was the leverage the players held over management. As I stated, the decision proved to be short-sighted. The decision to lose out on a talent like Willie Mays and side with segregation was also a huge miscalculation.
    Posted by harness


    Why go off on a tangent about the Willie Mays thing. Isn't the thread about Fred Lynn? We all know that Yawkey was a racial bigot so what does that have to do about this?
     
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