Gammons: 'Disconnect' between Tito, Theo

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from Bill-806'sTwin+. Show Bill-806'sTwin+'s posts

    Gammons: 'Disconnect' between Tito, Theo

    WEEI

    Peter Gammons said Thursday that there is 'an increasing' disconnect between Terry Francona and Theo Epstein. Gammons, a guest on The Dan Patrick Show, was asked if Francona could be managing for his job as the Red Sox struggle to hold on to the wild-card lead.

    "I think to some degree, it seems very strange to think that," Gammons said. "I've sensed an increasing disconnect between Theo Epstein and Terry Francona and I think some of the things that have happened ... when Terry came out to mercifully take John Lackey out of the game on Monday night after 14 base runners, four stolen bases, a wild pitch and blowing an 11-5 lead and Lackey -- I don't know if he realized it, he said he didn't -- he stared him down, as if 'How dare you come out and get me.' Lackey said that didn't happen, and that's for the world to see. And Terry was upset about it, but nothing was said, no veteran player got in Lackey's face. ... I think last night, there's that strategic 'Why was Beckett coming out in the eighth inning of a tie game when you've got Bard and Papelbon?' You go back over the other notable recent collapses -- the 2007 Mets, the 1995 Angels, neither would be as great as this collapse  if the Red Sox don't make the playoffs -- in each case the manager was gone by the middle of next season and there were major shakeups."

     
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    Re: Gammons: 'Disconnect' between Tito, Theo

    I wonder if Theo and management are telling Gammons that Francona is out if he doesn't get into the playoffs.

     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from sadsax. Show sadsax's posts

    Re: Gammons: 'Disconnect' between Tito, Theo

    i'm happy to hear that terry 'coma may be gone; my question is why isn't INEPSTEIN leaving the premises also?

     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from Bill-806'sTwin+. Show Bill-806'sTwin+'s posts

    Re: Gammons: 'Disconnect' between Tito, Theo

    That would be up to John Henry.
     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from sadsax. Show sadsax's posts

    Re: Gammons: 'Disconnect' between Tito, Theo

    In Response to Re: Gammons: 'Disconnect' between Tito, Theo:
    That would be up to John Henry.
    Posted by Bill-806'sTwin+


    there's a rumor that john henry legally adopted the inept one.
     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from DirtyWaterLover. Show DirtyWaterLover's posts

    Re: Gammons: 'Disconnect' between Tito, Theo

    How does he get a "disconnect" between Tito and theo based on Lackey's reaction to Tito taking him out of the game?  I can see the Lackey/Tito interaction an indication of a disconnect between Lackey and Tito, but how does Theo come into it?

    I love how the GM saddles Tito with Lackey, provides him with a 45 year old knuckler as his 4th starter for most of the season, and a 5th starter by committee then blames the Manager because the pitching staff is giving up 6-7 runs a game.

    The pitching staff is 100% on the GM.
     
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  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from Diamondtalk. Show Diamondtalk's posts

    Re: Gammons: 'Disconnect' between Tito, Theo

    In truth, Theo Epstein is the one who should be held accountable.    He's the one that provided inept players.
     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from tomnev. Show tomnev's posts

    Re: Gammons: 'Disconnect' between Tito, Theo

    DWL....I am Theo and Tito supporter, but you are right that the pitching staff is on Theo. Once the injures occurred to Dice and Buchholz and Doubront got injured in the minors, whihc left us with Wakefield and Miller, et al, it was Theo's job to go out and get a better than average 5th starter. First he waited too long....lulled by the fact that we were winning with our offense and probably also by the fact that he thought Buch would be back sooner(our wonderful medical staff) then he went and got Erik Bedard....a pitcher with Talent, but one that he should have known based on history we werent going to be able to count on in September. Was there better starters out there....maybe not, but he had a starter in the Pen in Aceves and there were relievers out there to replace Aceves in the pen....the point is he left Tito with what he left him and I dont think you can fault Tito for losing when a rotation as almost a 7 ERA.  

     
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    Re: Gammons: 'Disconnect' between Tito, Theo

    In Response to Re: Gammons: 'Disconnect' between Tito, Theo:
    i'm happy to hear that terry 'coma may be gone; my question is why isn't INEPSTEIN leaving the premises also?
    Posted by sadsax

    Coma ... Inepstein ... those are great!! Think them up in homeroom this morning?
     
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  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from georom4. Show georom4's posts

    Re: Gammons: 'Disconnect' between Tito, Theo

    it makes no sense to have one leave and one stay...either keep the current tandem or start fresh....i would feel bad for Tito if he were the scapegoat for the pitching collapsing....that really is not on him (bullpen management, conditioning, allowing Lackey/vets to disrespect - yes but not the starting 5)
     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from DirtyWaterLover. Show DirtyWaterLover's posts

    Re: Gammons: 'Disconnect' between Tito, Theo

    Actually, I put the blame squarely on Lackey's shoulders.  There is no excuse for him to be as bad as he is.  The BP should be expected to be heavily used by the 5th and 4th starters.  But by Lackey?  The BP would be OK if he was doing what he's capable of.  I'd settle for him being just bad.  But he is so terrible that he's blowing up the BP.  Plus, he puts added pressure on the rest of the starters.

    And because he's been so bad, they had to get Bedard instead of BP help.

    One bad apple.  Worst player on the team in recent memory.  Get rid of him.  Make a big of it and let the negative vibes go with him.  It would be a cleansing action.  the rest of the team has to be angry at him. 

     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from craze4sox. Show craze4sox's posts

    Re: Gammons: 'Disconnect' between Tito, Theo

    In Response to Gammons: 'Disconnect' between Tito, Theo:
    WEEI Peter Gammons said Thursday that there is 'an increasing' disconnect between Terry Francona and Theo Epstein. Gammons, a guest on The Dan Patrick Show, was asked if Francona could be managing for his job as the Red Sox struggle to hold on to the wild-card lead. "I think to some degree, it seems very strange to think that," Gammons said. "I've sensed an increasing disconnect between Theo Epstein and Terry Francona and I think some of the things that have happened ... when Terry came out to mercifully take John Lackey out of the game on Monday night after 14 base runners, four stolen bases, a wild pitch and blowing an 11-5 lead and Lackey -- I don't know if he realized it, he said he didn't -- he stared him down, as if 'How dare you come out and get me.' Lackey said that didn't happen, and that's for the world to see. And Terry was upset about it, but nothing was said, no veteran player got in Lackey's face. ... I think last night, there's that strategic 'Why was Beckett coming out in the eighth inning of a tie game when you've got Bard and Papelbon?' You go back over the other notable recent collapses -- the 2007 Mets, the 1995 Angels, neither would be as great as this collapse  if the Red Sox don't make the playoffs -- in each case the manager was gone by the middle of next season and there were major shakeups."
    Posted by Bill-806'sTwin+


    Tito isn't perfect but by firing him Theo using him as a scapegoat when a great deal of our failures point towards him would be wrong.  This season good or bad is a result of what Theo and Tito haven't done right.  Most of my blame would still lean towards Theo.
     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from Beantowne. Show Beantowne's posts

    Re: Gammons: 'Disconnect' between Tito, Theo

    While our finish has been disapointing, the fault for our "colapse is squarely on the shoulders of the pitching staff. While we all can lamment the back end of the rotation being less than, we're still in this thing and FYI our best haven't exactly been stout this month either...Lester lost his last two starts vs the Rays, Beckett lost to the Orioles giving up 6 runs, Bard's coughed up 3 leads in the 8th & Papelbon another...If we hold half of the 4 games we've lost in September when leading after 7 we'd be 4 up in the loss column if we held on to all of them we'd still be in the hunt for the division and all of this wrangling would be moot and tonights game would have even greater implications...

    End of the day big game pitchers, pitch big, in big games...Our top guys haven't when we needed it most...period!

    Split milk...

    That said, I'd have to agree that the fault lies in the hands of the GM...It is his job to build the roster....It is his job to provide his field manager with organizational depth to address under performance and injuries...

    Once they concluded that they have a team worthy of the post season.! it is then incumbent on the baseball operations team to evelaute the strengths and weaknesses of the organization and then execute a plan to bolster the roster for the stretch run...Our needs at the deadline were pitching and a right handed bat...

    The first place to look is the farm system, frankly we simply don't or didn't have arms that could step up and take the ball every 5 days. One of the biggest issues was according to Gammon's, that our the top pitching prospect, one that was supposed to our #6 starter (Doubront) showed up to camp out of shape which was cited by Gammon's as the cause of his injury? One that rendered him useless to the big club all year...Make no mistake about it the casue and effect of a thin farm and the accumlative effect of the injuries to Matsusaka, Buccholz, Wheeler, Jenks and the under performance of Lackey and the over use of Wake is at the heart of our struggles...Epstein can't be held accountable for injuries, he can however be held accountable for not addressing the needs before they became and issue...

    In fairness to him, the biggest challenge that he had was simply that after trading away 6 of our best prospects in the Martinez and Gonzalez deals. along with the loss of young Westmorland and the injury to Kalish, we just didn't have a ton of amo to land the guy he really wanted and that was Fister...To that I will add that he did have a deal in place for Kuroda (who veto the trade) and then added Bedard. Which might be a case of to little to late.

    Peter Gammons said Thursday that there is 'an increasing' disconnect between Terry Francona and Theo Epstein. 

    If inded there's any truth to Gammons speculation of a growing rift between Francona and Epstein...I trust that if either guy loses their job, that Henry will do everything in his power to replace them with like minded proffessionals...

    The question that needs to be answered, which none of us know is what is Henry's role in this...because he and Luccino are both a part of the process and if they all came to the conclusion that due to injuires that we aren't a legit WS contender he may have veto's adding payroll...
     
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  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from bosoxmal. Show bosoxmal's posts

    Re: Gammons: 'Disconnect' between Tito, Theo

    Can 'em both *win or lose from here on in). Go get Joe Maddon, and give him the GM job. Maddon's real expertise is in his recognition of talent. (see: Patriots).

    Terry's minuses are simply roo plentiful. Why doesn't anyone know how to bunt!! With men on 1st and 2nd, a double play is almost predictable. Pitchers are not even warming up when the whole world sees that Wake, Lacket (whomever) hasn't got it. 8 runs later, Franconia puts down his seeds and wanders to the mound. I'm sick of it.
     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from jrh1194. Show jrh1194's posts

    Re: Gammons: 'Disconnect' between Tito, Theo

    Tito has to manage with the players that Theo provides gets for him. While I don't think that Tito has done a great job, he has had to deal with some players that Theo signed to big dollar contracts  (Lackey, Crawford, etc).
     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from sadsax. Show sadsax's posts

    Re: Gammons: 'Disconnect' between Tito, Theo

    In Response to Re: Gammons: 'Disconnect' between Tito, Theo:
    I think theo is disconnected in general.   When he left fenway in a bear's suit, they should have let him keep walking.    I really hope he goes to the cubs.
    Posted by jackbu


    don't mean to correct you, because neither of us likes the fool; but dumbtheo was wearing a gorilla suit when he left the 1st time.
    actually, i don't care what he wears as long as he leaves.
    btw, as this season progresses down hill, i'm sure the cubs ownership is rethinking their original plan and may take a pass on ol' theo. hopefully, they won't. let them experience theo's skills in the FA market up-close and personal.
     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from Beantowne. Show Beantowne's posts

    Re: Gammons: 'Disconnect' between Tito, Theo

    In Response to Re: Gammons: 'Disconnect' between Tito, Theo:
    Can 'em both *win or lose from here on in). Go get Joe Maddon, and give him the GM job. Maddon's real expertise is in his recognition of talent. (see: Patriots). Terry's minuses are simply roo plentiful. Why doesn't anyone know how to bunt!! With men on 1st and 2nd, a double play is almost predictable. Pitchers are not even warming up when the whole world sees that Wake, Lacket (whomever) hasn't got it. 8 runs later, Franconia puts down his seeds and wanders to the mound. I'm sick of it.
    Posted by bosoxmal


    Yeah Maddon is such a genious...taking both of his starters out of must win games when both cleary were his best options still had managable pitch counts, went with the percentages and thus he managed to expose the soft underbelly of his team the bullpen not once but twice in must win games...If that were Francona he'd have been lynched! He cleary over managed both situations...

    Sorry, I don't dispute that Maddon is a good manager, but like all managers genious is defined by how well your players execute when called upon...

    Tony Larussa is often hailed as the best manager in the game and Duncan the best pitching coach...last night on MLB I heard a stat that made me sit up and take notice....11 times this year the Cardinals entered the 9th with a lead only to lose those games 11 times...Perspective anyone?
     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from J-BAY. Show J-BAY's posts

    Re: Gammons: 'Disconnect' between Tito, Theo

    one of them was yesterday BT, against the Mets, who scored 6 runs in the 9th. I thought Really.... the METS??
     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from Beantowne. Show Beantowne's posts

    Re: Gammons: 'Disconnect' between Tito, Theo

    In Response to Re: Gammons: 'Disconnect' between Tito, Theo:
    one of them was yesterday BT, against the Mets, who scored 6 runs in the 9th. I thought Really.... the METS??
    Posted by J-BAY


    J,

    Harold Reyonlds said something the other day I found to be somewhat enlightening...that is that teams that have already been elimanated treat the games they play at the end of the year against the "contenders" as their playoffs. Many of them embrace the spoiler role and like nothing better than to be the cause for a team to miss the playoffs and join them on the golf coarse...
     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from sadsax. Show sadsax's posts

    Re: Gammons: 'Disconnect' between Tito, Theo

    In Response to Re: Gammons: 'Disconnect' between Tito, Theo:
    one of them was yesterday BT, against the Mets, who scored 6 runs in the 9th. I thought Really.... the METS??
    Posted by J-BAY


    it would have been even more surprising if they had lost in the 9th against the red sox.
     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from J-BAY. Show J-BAY's posts

    Re: Gammons: 'Disconnect' between Tito, Theo

    In Response to Re: Gammons: 'Disconnect' between Tito, Theo:
    In Response to Re: Gammons: 'Disconnect' between Tito, Theo : J, Harold Reyonlds said something the other day I found to be somewhat enlightening...that is that teams that have already been elimanated treat the games they play at the end of the year against the "contenders" as their playoffs. Many of them embrace the spoiler role and like nothing better than to be the cause for a team to miss the playoffs and join them on the golf coarse...
    Posted by Beantowne


    I think that was the position Showalter took against the Sox, BT.....last night, toronto played spoiler against the Angels, 12 innings with a walk off HR. BTW, think Harold Reynolds is one of the better analysts.
     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from Bill-806'sTwin+. Show Bill-806'sTwin+'s posts

    Re: Gammons: 'Disconnect' between Tito, Theo

    NEW YORK — Given his close relationship to the Red Sox and Theo Epstein, it's news when Hall of Fame baseball reporter Peter Gammons says on a national radio now, "I've sensed an increasing disconnect between Theo Epstein and Terry Francona."

    Gammons then pointed out the apparent lack of repercussions for John Lackey staring down Francona on Monday when he was taken out of the game and Francona leaving Josh Beckett in to pitch the eighth inning on Wednesday.

    But Epstein refuted the idea of a schism.

    "There's no disconnect," Epstein wrote in an e-mail this afternoon. "We've had each other's support and admiration for eight years and that doesn't change because the team has had a very difficult month so far."

    It's worth noting that Epstein is usually in Francona's office before and after every game and that was the case throughout the recent homestand.

    Francona is in the final year of his contract. The team hold a two-year option on him.

     
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