Gammons: 'It may never be the same'

  1. This post has been removed.

     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from 1958lesspaul. Show 1958lesspaul's posts

    Re: Gammons: 'It may never be the same'

    Gammons is an access lackey. Epstein needs to be fired!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from concord27. Show concord27's posts

    Re: Gammons: 'It may never be the same'

    1958 lesspaul,
    I am with you fire Theo.  His poor judgement has gotten them into this Lackey and Crawford mess.  Not to mention Drew, Dice-K, Lugo, Salty, and the overall change in good chemistry in that was in that locker room.
     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from 1958lesspaul. Show 1958lesspaul's posts

    Re: Gammons: 'It may never be the same'

    His bean counter IP pitch count nonsense and coast and cuation mode needs to be kicked to the curve. Wakefield and Varitek not being replaced is pitiful decision manking and/or player development!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    I was low confidence on Inepstein in 2010. By end of last winter after Crawford debacle, I went to zero confidence. I've been saying to fire Epstein regardless of post season results for the entire season! I'm not Monday morning 20/20 driveling.
     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from donrd4. Show donrd4's posts

    Re: Gammons: 'It may never be the same'

    In Response to Gammons: 'It may never be the same':
    [QUOTE]WEEI: With all the questions swirling around the Red Sox in the aftermath of their historic collapse, baseball Hall of Famer Peter Gammons compared it to other similar downfalls. "It may never be the same," he said. "I was thinking about the 2007 Mets who were never the same. The 1995 Angels who blew a comparable lead and by the middle of the next season Marcel Lachemann was gone and there was total change in the franchise. The '64 Phillis were never the same. Gene Mauch was hearing about the '64 Phillies when he was 75 years old. You wonder a little bit." First, the Sox must address manager Terry Francona who has two options years on his contract that the club needs to exercise in the 10 days following the end of the season. "I think what they have to do immediately is clear up whether or not Tito's option is going to be picked up," Gammons said. "I think everybody needs to know and I think that will entirely be ownership. If it was Theo [Epstein], he'd do it tomorrow." Ultimately, Gammons believes that Francona will return next season. As for the now infamous "disconnect" line between Francona and the front office, Gammons explained, "How I got that, just being around, I've been really concerned the last month. I think I was driving him crazy by asking him, 'Are you all right?' healthwise. I felt some disconnection that he kind of felt alone as the team was losing and I felt badly about that. Also you had Theo and Ben [Cherrington] working so hard trying to do things and get players and so forth, I really sensed that Tito was kind of out on his own island. It wasn't like a get rid of the manger statement. I do think there's a disconnect and a better word is distance. I think they've tried to address it and I think will be the best thing moving forward." The Sox will also have to make a decision on Epstein who has one year left on his contract. "Ownership has to sit down with Theo, OK what do you really want?" Gammons said. "He's got another year on the contract. I think it's been fairly clear that they want him here and after next year they can decide exactly what he does when his contract's up. Are he and [executive vice president/chief operating officer] Sam Kennedy going to be sort of co-CEO's? Nobody seems to know. I think that has to be cleared up." Gammons does think the team will make changes to the coaching staff and that the team will try to move John Lackey, possibly for a similarly bad contract like Barry Zito or Carlos Zambrano, although Gammons acknowledged neither option was appealing. "It's going to be hard to bring John Lackey back," Gammons said. "I'm not saying that I don't think he can ever pitch again. I just think it would be hard in Boston. I'm not sure John is ever going to fit in Boston again. I understand how upset he is but I think it's going to be hard for fans to warm up to him again." Finally, Gammons also said the team needs to get the Carl Crawford they thought they were getting. "Somehow they have to immediate address getting Carl Crawford's head back," Gammons said. "He clearly lost every bit of his confidence. That sliding catch that he missed twice in four days, those are things that he would do in his backyard 40 times a day. It's something he'd never think about. They need him very badly. They have to find a way to get to him this winter and they have also to figure out who's going to be healthy on that pitching staff." 
    Posted by 2004Idiots[/QUOTE]

    Never be the same? See you in the waiting room for tickets next year.
     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from tbrod. Show tbrod's posts

    Re: Gammons: 'It may never be the same'

    Notice Gammons never said a single negative word about his main man, Theo?
    Gammons is Theo's puppet in the media, and has no credibility.
     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from OnDeckCircle. Show OnDeckCircle's posts

    Re: Gammons: 'It may never be the same'

    Teams don't just brush off what happened in September like nothing ever happened.      The players will constantly be reminded of "the collapse" by the tough Boston media and also the media in other cities.   As soon as the Sox have a 3-4 game losing streak they'll get booed by the home crown and hear,  " Here
    we go again !"

    Fans want their money's worth.
     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from chuchos. Show chuchos's posts

    Re: Gammons: 'It may never be the same'

    It may never be the same?  Well I hope not!
     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from soxdawg08. Show soxdawg08's posts

    Re: Gammons: 'It may never be the same'

    Lot of you guys put the onus on Theo as far as signing of FA's or trades that didn't work out. But you know, these signings "are like a box of chocolates ...... you never know what your gonna get". 

     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from SilverSun. Show SilverSun's posts

    Re: Gammons: 'It may never be the same'

    In Response to Re: Gammons: 'It may never be the same':
    [QUOTE]His bean counter IP pitch count nonsense and coast and cuation mode needs to be kicked to the curve. Wakefield and Varitek not being replaced is pitiful decision manking and/or player development!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I was low confidence on Inepstein in 2010. By end of last winter after Crawford debacle, I went to zero confidence. I've been saying to fire Epstein regardless of post season results for the entire season! I'm not Monday morning 20/20 driveling.
    Posted by 1958lesspaul[/QUOTE]

    I am with you.  Theo has crafted a very unbalanced roster; a few megamillionaires like Shalackey and Crawdad, and a lot of marginal fringe players.  For a team that plays 81 games a year in Fenway, it is inexcusable to have lineups featuring 6 lefty batters.  No real righthanded power on the team, period. Other than Lester, what other starting pitcher has Theo farm system developed who has thrown 150+ innings - in other words, a true dependable starting pitcher?  Weiland was a complete failuer - no wins and an ERA of 7 over several too many starts!  Is that the best Theo can promote to Boston?  Where is our Nova (16-4 for NYY as rookie)?

    While teams like the Yankees, Rays, yes the Orioles too - I like some of those good lefty relievers they showed against the Sox the last couple of weeks, have developed good young talent and used it this September, what did we have?  We have stripped the farm in deals which have by and large not paid off.

    Bench is so weak that Tito could not even pinch hit for our weaker hitters in any key situations over the past few weeks.  Tito comes in for blame, too, with his bezarro batting orders - Crawford hittin second and going largely ofer and leaving 2 runners at 3rd base a couple of nights ago; Lowrie  - he of the 5 or 6 homeruns going ofer 5 a few nights ago!
     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from Beat-Boston. Show Beat-Boston's posts

    Re: Gammons: 'It may never be the same'

    In Response to Re: Gammons: 'It may never be the same':
    [QUOTE]His bean counter IP pitch count nonsense and coast and cuation mode needs to be kicked to the curve. Wakefield and Varitek not being replaced is pitiful decision manking and/or player development!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I was low confidence on Inepstein in 2010. By end of last winter after Crawford debacle, I went to zero confidence. I've been saying to fire Epstein regardless of post season results for the entire season! I'm not Monday morning 20/20 driveling.
    Posted by 1958lesspaul[/QUOTE]

    Epstein will not be fired. If he leaves, he will go voluntarily. If the Yawkeys were the owners then Epstein would have never come here in the first place.

    The current owners hired a 28-year-old kid to run the club. There was dissension from day one between him and Lucchino but it was kept as quiet as it could have been. Essentially, Epstein's family had "connections" and he was given the job.
     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from njalb. Show njalb's posts

    Re: Gammons: 'It may never be the same'

    If you're not sure what you're getting, then don't give 5,6, 7 year contracts DUH
     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from njalb. Show njalb's posts

    Re: Gammons: 'It may never be the same'

     PS Since you're quoting Forrest Gump  " The Sox were running on empty" during September
     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from TheExaminer. Show TheExaminer's posts

    Re: Gammons: 'It may never be the same'

    In Response to Re: Gammons: 'It may never be the same':
    [QUOTE]Lot of you guys put the onus on Theo as far as signing of FA's or trades that didn't work out. But you know, these signings "are like a box of chocolates ...... you never know what your gonna get". 
    Posted by soxdawg08[/QUOTE]

    20 20 hindsight. NONE of us thought CC would do what he did. We were all excited about it for the most part. The only reservation I had was that he batted left handed, and made our lineup too left heavy. The Sox did fine against leftys so that wasn't a big issue. And again, Lackey was NOT a "horrible deal" when it was made. He as a solid pitcher. They overpaid for him, but not THAT much compared to what he'd done. As far as CC is concerned, I think we need to give him another chance. I really don't like to read the comments that he's dogging it or whatever, it's just the opposite. He's trying SO HARD that he's scared to death he's going to make a mistake and disappoint us all. It's because he loves his team and wants to win that he's struggling. Ripping him right and left will not help, will only make things worse. That last play last night is a prime example. Even in live action as the ball was hit, you could see how tentative he was in going after it. He should have caught it easily, but didn't because he's lost confidence. When he gets that back, and I think he will next year, we're going to see .310/18/85 again. We need to re-sign Papi and Papelbon, and maybe Scutaro, and then go get one top notch starter (NOT Sabathia, I think he's used up--maybe Wilson?) and a good right handed hitting OF, and this team will be great next year. I was worried about there being a leftover stain from the collapse that might last for years, but I'm not so much now. This team has won in recent history, so that's not as big an issue. Just the fact that Peter Gammons said it would happen is your first indicator that it probably won't. HEALTH is the focus, work on conditioning so the injuries don't come up as much.   
     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from RSNS14. Show RSNS14's posts

    Re: Gammons: 'It may never be the same'

    Oh please. Typical sky is falling mentality. Bring back this same team save a few minor tweaks here and there. They'll be playing with a chip on their shoulder next year and will win it all. Bunch of whiners y'all are. Red sox fans make me wonder why I'm a red sox fan sometimes.
     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from antiqueman1. Show antiqueman1's posts

    Re: Gammons: 'It may never be the same'

    In Response to Re: Gammons: 'It may never be the same':
    [QUOTE]If you're not sure what you're getting, then don't give 5,6, 7 year contracts DUH
    Posted by njalb[/QUOTE]

    So true and spot on njalb. Stop overpaying and overbidding just to keep the Yankees from obtaining these players. Players apparently they never really wanted. I will take more Ellsbury's, Pedroias, (healthy Youks) any day of the week over these overpaid under-achieving athletes.
     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from can-you-dig-it. Show can-you-dig-it's posts

    Re: Gammons: 'It may never be the same'

    In Response to Re: Gammons: 'It may never be the same':
    [QUOTE]Gammons is an access lackey. Epstein needs to be fired!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
    Posted by 1958lesspaul[/QUOTE]

    I agree and the sox should also get rid of Ellsbury.  The rest of the AL will catch on to the reverse pivot next year.
     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from redlon. Show redlon's posts

    Re: Gammons: 'It may never be the same'

    Last year was a mess, management went out and spent 300 million and at.times this Yeats they looked like the best in MLB. I think this team thought all they had to do was show up and they would win. Arrogant teams don't usually suceed. hard to imagine what is going to happen but wouldn't be surprised if Theo and Tito are both gone. Good luck moving Lackey. Trading for Zito or Zambrano, that would be worse. Got to give props to Ellsbury, Pedroria, Scutaro as the every day guys that looked like they would giving max effort. Shame on Lester, Beckett for not doing the same. I think it is going to be difficult to change players so management will most likely take the fall. Too many 10 million dollar players, my advice to top management is throwing money at the problem does not work, they need to get players that work hard and play hard and smart. I for one will not miss seeing every called stile an issue for thisk team. Tell the truth, when the Yankes were up 7-0 and it started to rain, did you really feel good? If your being honest, you just knew this wasn't going to end in a good manner.. I thought the Yanks would still win at 7-0 but didn't believe that the September team that we been watching. Was going to win today in Tampa if they did hold on. Look at this way, we were sparred seeing Lackey give up 8 runs in 3 innings. .
     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from susan250. Show susan250's posts

    Re: Gammons: 'It may never be the same'

    In Response to Re: Gammons: 'It may never be the same':
    [QUOTE]Teams don't just brush off what happened in September like nothing ever happened.      The players will constantly be reminded of "the collapse" by the tough Boston media and also the media in other cities.   As soon as the Sox have a 3-4 game losing streak they'll get booed by the home crown and hear,  " Here we go again !" Fans want their money's worth.
    Posted by OnDeckCircle[/QUOTE]

    I definitely agree with you that the end to this season won't be forgotten soon.  Maybe in about five years if the Red Sox manage to turn things around and get to the World Series again, fans will start to forget this season. 
     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from Sheriff-Rojas. Show Sheriff-Rojas's posts

    Re: Gammons: 'It may never be the same'

    WEEI:
    With all the questions swirling around the Red Sox in the aftermath of their historic collapse, baseball Hall of Famer Peter Gammons compared it to other similar downfalls. "It may never be the same," he said. "I was thinking about the 2007 Mets who were never the same. The 1995 Angels who blew a comparable lead and by the middle of the next season Marcel Lachemann was gone and there was total change in the franchise. The '64 Phillis were never the same. Gene Mauch was hearing about the '64 Phillies when he was 75 years old. You wonder a little bit."

    Of course he didn't mention 2004 following the bitter 2003 season ending and decades of disappointment, and 2007 following a 2006 August breakdown.  There was also the quick Yankees recovery in 2009 after being no-shows in the playoffs in 2008.  While I don't see the Red Sox's fix for 2012 right now, I'm hoping something will develop under my radar. 
     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from harness. Show harness's posts

    Re: Gammons: 'It may never be the same'

    Well, fans of entitlement have been humbled, to say the least.
    I doubt Theo is going anywhere with one year left on his deal - and Henry's father-son connection with him.

    2011 won't  easily be forgotten...and that can a good thing to draw from.
     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from DirtDawgSox. Show DirtDawgSox's posts

    Re: Gammons: 'It may never be the same'

    In Response to Gammons: 'It may never be the same':
    [QUOTE]WEEI: With all the questions swirling around the Red Sox in the aftermath of their historic collapse, baseball Hall of Famer Peter Gammons compared it to other similar downfalls. "It may never be the same," he said. "I was thinking about the 2007 Mets who were never the same. The 1995 Angels who blew a comparable lead and by the middle of the next season Marcel Lachemann was gone and there was total change in the franchise. The '64 Phillis were never the same. Gene Mauch was hearing about the '64 Phillies when he was 75 years old. You wonder a little bit." First, the Sox must address manager Terry Francona who has two options years on his contract that the club needs to exercise in the 10 days following the end of the season. "I think what they have to do immediately is clear up whether or not Tito's option is going to be picked up," Gammons said. "I think everybody needs to know and I think that will entirely be ownership. If it was Theo [Epstein], he'd do it tomorrow." Ultimately, Gammons believes that Francona will return next season. As for the now infamous "disconnect" line between Francona and the front office, Gammons explained, "How I got that, just being around, I've been really concerned the last month. I think I was driving him crazy by asking him, 'Are you all right?' healthwise. I felt some disconnection that he kind of felt alone as the team was losing and I felt badly about that. Also you had Theo and Ben [Cherrington] working so hard trying to do things and get players and so forth, I really sensed that Tito was kind of out on his own island. It wasn't like a get rid of the manger statement. I do think there's a disconnect and a better word is distance. I think they've tried to address it and I think will be the best thing moving forward." The Sox will also have to make a decision on Epstein who has one year left on his contract. "Ownership has to sit down with Theo, OK what do you really want?" Gammons said. "He's got another year on the contract. I think it's been fairly clear that they want him here and after next year they can decide exactly what he does when his contract's up. Are he and [executive vice president/chief operating officer] Sam Kennedy going to be sort of co-CEO's? Nobody seems to know. I think that has to be cleared up." Gammons does think the team will make changes to the coaching staff and that the team will try to move John Lackey, possibly for a similarly bad contract like Barry Zito or Carlos Zambrano, although Gammons acknowledged neither option was appealing. "It's going to be hard to bring John Lackey back," Gammons said. "I'm not saying that I don't think he can ever pitch again. I just think it would be hard in Boston. I'm not sure John is ever going to fit in Boston again. I understand how upset he is but I think it's going to be hard for fans to warm up to him again." Finally, Gammons also said the team needs to get the Carl Crawford they thought they were getting. "Somehow they have to immediate address getting Carl Crawford's head back," Gammons said. "He clearly lost every bit of his confidence. That sliding catch that he missed twice in four days, those are things that he would do in his backyard 40 times a day. It's something he'd never think about. They need him very badly. They have to find a way to get to him this winter and they have also to figure out who's going to be healthy on that pitching staff." 
    Posted by 2004Idiots[/QUOTE]
    Crawford needs to become a right fielder rather than a left fielder.

     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from redsoxpride34. Show redsoxpride34's posts

    Re: Gammons: 'It may never be the same'

    umm pretty sure the lackey deal would qualify for horrible deal status.  at the time of the deal, lackey was 31 yrs old and has just come off 2 injury plagued seasons. he has only had one good year in his career. yet theo gives him 18.5 per for 5 yrs? it was a terrible deal from the beginning. if your going to spend that kind of money on a pitcher, make sure u get a proven winner who is reliable. theo deserves to be fired just as much as francona if not more. he has made so many bad moves its not even funny.
     

Share