Get those Halladay/ Bucholz comparative stat splits since the deal fell through?

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from DeweyCBoston. Show DeweyCBoston's posts

    Get those Halladay/ Bucholz comparative stat splits since the deal fell through?

    It seems as though the "brilliance" of refusal to trade Bucholz was exaggerated. Im pretty sure the splits are favorable to Halladay , who is of course "over the hill" and physically inferior to Clay, but pitched a perfect game...?

    Go figure.

    GO RED SOX! Theres always Spahn, Sain & Pray for Rain!
     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from SpacemanEephus. Show SpacemanEephus's posts

    Re: Get those Halladay/ Bucholz comparative stat splits since the deal fell through?

    A. Don't think there was anyone who called halladay over the hill or physically inferior.  Just a recognition that it might not be wise to throw out too much dough for too long and at his age, and give up too much in return.  As for the comparitive stats, lets look at 2010 since we can't really judge 2011 with Clay being injured:

    W-L WHIP ERA
    Doc 21-10  (.677) 1.041 2.44
    Clay 17-7 (.708) 1.203 2.33

    Minus the perfect game starriness you mention, pretty much a wash, huh?  Then factor in age and cost.  Dunno, Dewey, kind of weird to even bring up, especially at this juncture since we don't have a good or bad year to even make a full comparison on their performances.  
     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from Beantowne. Show Beantowne's posts

    Re: Get those Halladay/ Bucholz comparative stat splits since the deal fell through?

    In Response to Get those Halladay/ Bucholz comparative stat splits since the deal fell through?:
    [QUOTE]It seems as though the "brilliance" of refusal to trade Bucholz was exaggerated. Im pretty sure the splits are favorable to Halladay , who is of course "over the hill" and physically inferior to Clay, but pitched a perfect game...? Go figure. GO RED SOX! Theres always Spahn, Sain & Pray for Rain!
    Posted by DeweyCBoston[/QUOTE]

    Exactly what is it that you're eluding too? If it was the failed attempt to aquire Halladay that's water under the bridge and given that neither the Sox nor the Yanks or Angels were able to aquire him from Toronto when each had a need is evidence that the owners of the Jay's wanted him in the NL...spilt milk...
     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from jarretfromportsmouth. Show jarretfromportsmouth's posts

    Re: Get those Halladay/ Bucholz comparative stat splits since the deal fell through?

    In Response to Re: Get those Halladay/ Bucholz comparative stat splits since the deal fell through?:
    [QUOTE]A. Don't think there was anyone who called halladay over the hill or physically inferior.  Just a recognition that it might not be wise to throw out too much dough for too long and at his age, and give up too much in return.  As for the comparitive stats, lets look at 2010 since we can't really judge 2011 with Clay being injured: W-L WHIP ERA Doc 21-10  (.677) 1.041 2.44 Clay 17-7 (.708) 1.203 2.33 Minus the perfect game starriness you mention, pretty much a wash, huh?  Then factor in age and cost.  Dunno, Dewey, kind of weird to even bring up, especially at this juncture since we don't have a good or bad year to even make a full comparison on their performances.  
    Posted by SpacemanEephus[/QUOTE]

    Clay is younger and so I am glad they never traded him for Halladay.  but other significant stats are Halladays 9 complete games and 4 shut outs, and 250 innings...clay had 1 CG, 1 SO, and 173 innings.  Halladay reduces the wear on the BP, which adds to his value.

     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from 111SoxFan111. Show 111SoxFan111's posts

    Re: Get those Halladay/ Bucholz comparative stat splits since the deal fell through?

    I'd love to see the combined 2010-2011 stats including total innings, innings/start.
     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from JimfromFlorida. Show JimfromFlorida's posts

    Re: Get those Halladay/ Bucholz comparative stat splits since the deal fell through?

    In Response to Re: Get those Halladay/ Bucholz comparative stat splits since the deal fell through?:
    [QUOTE]I'd love to see the combined 2010-2011 stats including total innings, innings/start.
    Posted by 111SoxFan111[/QUOTE]

    Then go and get them you lazy SOB.
     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from SpacemanEephus. Show SpacemanEephus's posts

    Re: Get those Halladay/ Bucholz comparative stat splits since the deal fell through?

    In Response to Re: Get those Halladay/ Bucholz comparative stat splits since the deal fell through?:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Get those Halladay/ Bucholz comparative stat splits since the deal fell through? : Clay is younger and so I am glad they never traded him for Halladay.  but other significant stats are Halladays 9 complete games and 4 shut outs, and 250 innings...clay had 1 CG, 1 SO, and 173 innings.  Halladay reduces the wear on the BP, which adds to his value.
    Posted by jarretfromportsmouth[/QUOTE]

    No question Jarret.  Halladay is one of the 2 or 3 finest pitchers in the game today.  there is no question that he is a superior pitcher to Clay Buchholz.  But as far as the OP goes, it just doesn't fly.  Clay is relatively cheap, under club control for relatively cheap for a long time, and young.  It makes no sense to give up clay for Doc.  Perhaps in the short run.  But, no question in my mind, you keep your young homegrown star in that particular situation.  These things don't happen in a vacuum.  
     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from jarretfromportsmouth. Show jarretfromportsmouth's posts

    Re: Get those Halladay/ Bucholz comparative stat splits since the deal fell through?

    In Response to Re: Get those Halladay/ Bucholz comparative stat splits since the deal fell through?:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Get those Halladay/ Bucholz comparative stat splits since the deal fell through? : No question Jarret.  Halladay is one of the 2 or 3 finest pitchers in the game today.  there is no question that he is a superior pitcher to Clay Buchholz.  But as far as the OP goes, it just doesn't fly.  Clay is relatively cheap, under club control for relatively cheap for a long time, and young.  It makes no sense to give up clay for Doc.  Perhaps in the short run.  But, no question in my mind, you keep your young homegrown star in that particular situation.  These things don't happen in a vacuum.  
    Posted by SpacemanEephus[/QUOTE]

    I agree, look at the stats in 5 years...thats when not trading him will make sense.  Its easy right now, cause the team is struggling, to just look for things to point to.  If Buchholz was healthy this year this isn't even a thread.
     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from 111SoxFan111. Show 111SoxFan111's posts

    Re: Get those Halladay/ Bucholz comparative stat splits since the deal fell through?

    In Response to Re: Get those Halladay/ Bucholz comparative stat splits since the deal fell through?:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Get those Halladay/ Bucholz comparative stat splits since the deal fell through? : Then go and get them you lazy SOB.
    Posted by JimfromFlorida[/QUOTE]
    I've posted enough stats here to sit back and wait for one ... yes, I'm lazy and I just don't care.
     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from Beantowne. Show Beantowne's posts

    Re: Get those Halladay/ Bucholz comparative stat splits since the deal fell through?

    In Response to Re: Get those Halladay/ Bucholz comparative stat splits since the deal fell through?:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Get those Halladay/ Bucholz comparative stat splits since the deal fell through? : I agree, look at the stats in 5 years...thats when not trading him will make sense.  Its easy right now, cause the team is struggling, to just look for things to point to.  If Buchholz was healthy this year this isn't even a thread.
    Posted by jarretfromportsmouth[/QUOTE]

    Actually since none of know that the Sox in fact refused to trade Buccholz for Halladay this thread isn't one that is based on fact...

    No one will or should compare the two...One is arguabaly the best righthanded pitcher in the NL and on his way to the Hall of fame...The other is still not even the best pitcher on his own team...
     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from PhllyPhn1967. Show PhllyPhn1967's posts

    Re: Get those Halladay/ Bucholz comparative stat splits since the deal fell through?

    In Response to Re: Get those Halladay/ Bucholz comparative stat splits since the deal fell through?:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Get those Halladay/ Bucholz comparative stat splits since the deal fell through? : Clay is younger and so I am glad they never traded him for Halladay.  but other significant stats are Halladays 9 complete games and 4 shut outs, and 250 innings...clay had 1 CG, 1 SO, and 173 innings.  Halladay reduces the wear on the BP, which adds to his value.
    Posted by jarretfromportsmouth[/QUOTE]


    An even more impressive stat is his K/BB ratio which is 7.50. Also look what Halladay has done to stabilize a pitching staff in Philly, he is an example of what a veteran leader should be like. Trying to make the excuse of not trading Buckholz for a guy like Halladay who could be the difference maker now is flat out not even trying hard to make excuses. You get a chance to get Halladay, you do it, period! Red Sox lost on that deal and the Phils will make another run to a World Series while Red Sox sit around wondering why, LOL.
     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from slomag. Show slomag's posts

    Re: Get those Halladay/ Bucholz comparative stat splits since the deal fell through?

    Another point - this would not have been a straight-up trade Clay for Halladay.  Clay would have been our Kyle Drabek.  Who would have been our D'Arneaud and Taylor?  Reddick?  Kalish?  Rizzo?  Would we have had enough left to land Gonzalez?
     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from Beantowne. Show Beantowne's posts

    Re: Get those Halladay/ Bucholz comparative stat splits since the deal fell through?

    In Response to Re: Get those Halladay/ Bucholz comparative stat splits since the deal fell through?:
    [QUOTE]Another point - this would not have been a straight-up trade Clay for Halladay.  Clay would have been our Kyle Drabek.  Who would have been our D'Arneaud and Taylor?  Reddick?  Kalish?  Rizzo?  Would we have had enough left to land Gonzalez?
    Posted by slomag[/QUOTE]

    slomag,

    My understanding was that the Jay's made it clear to both the Sox and Yanks that in order for them to trade within the division that either team would have to pay a premium above and beyond what another team outside the division would have had too for them to even consider trading him within the divsion (to Boston or New York)...the fact of the matter is depending on whom you believe the Sox were willing to part with Buchholz, it was the Jay's insistence on Masterson, Bard & Buccholz that made the deal less compelling...

    http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/news?slug=ys-tradebuzz072809
     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from slomag. Show slomag's posts

    Re: Get those Halladay/ Bucholz comparative stat splits since the deal fell through?

    In Response to Re: Get those Halladay/ Bucholz comparative stat splits since the deal fell through?:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Get those Halladay/ Bucholz comparative stat splits since the deal fell through? : slomag, My understanding was that the Jay's made it clear to both the Sox and Yanks that in order for them to trade within the division that either team would have to pay a premium above and beyond what another team outside the division would have had too for them to even consider trading him within the divsion (to Boston or New York)...the fact of the matter is depending on whom you believe the Sox were willing to part with Buchholz, it was the Jay's insistence on Masterson, Bard & Buccholz that made the deal less compelling... http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/news?slug=ys-tradebuzz072809
    Posted by Beantowne[/QUOTE]

    If those reports are true, the Jays could have had Buchholz and Masterson.  We would have Halladay instead of Lackey.  As if the AL East weren't brutal enough :)


     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from newenglanderinexile. Show newenglanderinexile's posts

    Re: Get those Halladay/ Bucholz comparative stat splits since the deal fell through?

    Halladay is seven years older than Buchholz.  If Buchholz gets healthy and continues to pitch as well as he has, he will win more games from this point than Halladay will.  Buchholz could still be pitching the day Hallady enters the Hall of Fame. 
     

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