Gonzalez

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from 111SoxFan111. Show 111SoxFan111's posts

    Re: Gonzalez

    In Response to Re: Gonzalez:
    [QUOTE]If I were in charge, I'd never let another player on the team enter the home run contest at the All Star game.  Gonzo hasn't been the same hitter since.
    Posted by DisplacedSoxFan[/QUOTE]

    I don't disagree with the sentiment about letting Sox enter the HR derby.  The bolded statement, though, is something I have heard people say often and I don't think there is anything to support it.  AGon averaged about 5 HR/month last year.  Last August and September he hit 5 and 4 HR respectively.  September was actually a very good month for him with a .977 OPS.  Overall, his stats are less impressive post-ASB, but a .900 OPS isn't "hasn't been the same since" ... especially when that is his career average.

    [QUOTE]Has Agon had a day off yet? That was my gripe last year. Tito played him into the ground. V should give him a day off completely, and another day as the DH. Let the guy get his mind and body refreshed, assuming he is healthy, which he says he is.
    Posted by rkarp[/QUOTE]

    I agree that planning the occasional off-day would be a good idea to help keep AGon fresh and on the field especially now that he's 30.  But don't blame Tito.  AGon DOES NOT LIKE off-days.  He is very vocal about wanting to be on the field every game.  He has missed a total of 14 games over the last 6 years!!!  His three days off last year was the most for him since 2006.
     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from expitch. Show expitch's posts

    Re: Gonzalez

    In Response to Re: Gonzalez:
    [QUOTE]Hmmm.  I think a problem people run into when evaluating basbeall players is that they get an idea in their heads, and that idea keeps them static in their appraisal. Adrian indeed experienced a power dip post all-star break last year.  I don't know if it was the shoulder, the HR derby, or a combo platter. But, we can say with certainty that it happened. And he certainly started slow this year.  Yes, a spray hitter. But, as the weather has started to turn, Adrian has started to pick it up.  If we look at the last two weeks, he has an OPS of .950 (over 1.0 last week).  No, the HR stroke has not come yet, but 6 of his last 7 hits have been doubles.  To boot, he would have put at least 2 that I saw in this last homestand out of other parks (the Wall giveth and the Wall taketh away).  He has looked much more like Adrian Gonzalez in the past couple weeks. I would venture, based on his 1 HR and relatively pedestrian .457 slugging % in April in 2011, that Adrian, San Diego boy that he is, has trouble, as many power hitters do, in the cold weather. In any case, I'd say some people need to pay closer attention to what is happening now and pay a little less attention to raw HR #s.  I would hate for people to miss out on what Adrian is actually doing.  It is pretty fun.
    Posted by SpacemanEephus[/QUOTE]
    The numbers are misleading. Gonzalez is not hitting the ball with authority. ( I doubt those two balls leave the park elsewhere. They just as easily might have been caught in some parks. Petco, for instance. )  He is repeatedly being challenged right down Broadway and not connecting. He is chasing bad pitches too much. In short, "right now" he doesn't look like himself at the plate. 
    When a player is signed to hit home runs is not doing it, you have to pay  attention. Close attention. I'm not sure your statement about power hitters in cold weather will hold up to close scrutiny over a long enough period of time.
    One implication of what you are saying that is that Gonzalez might be better suited to playing in a warm climate. He didn't hit last April and September, and so far he has not hit in the early going this year. The Sox need him to hammer the ball in those months -- at the start and at the finish. 
    On balance so far this year, he has not been a big help to the club on offense. Any number of first basemen could so far have put up similar numbers to his. And, as I said, a few timely hits would probably have won games for the Sox.
    He once said, "That won't happen again." The 0 for 8 hasn't happened again, but not not coming through when needed has.
    Look, I expect him to hit better, maybe a lot better, with impressive power. But the "right now" is just that. Players have had bad years. He probably won't have one. But until he turns it around, "right now" is not what he's on the team for.

     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from MoreRings. Show MoreRings's posts

    Re: Gonzalez

    In Response to Re: Gonzalez:
    [QUOTE]I would like to see both Ortiz and AGon bunt down the third base line frequently--like Ortiz did yesterday to set up Middy--who cares who drives in the runs as long as someone gets the chance. I realize the shift won't go away but the third baseman and pitchers will get tired of seeing their futile efforts go for naught. 
    Posted by MadMc44[/QUOTE]

    Good post.  Take what they give ya.  Smart baseball.
     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from andrewmitch. Show andrewmitch's posts

    Re: Gonzalez

    The same people who defended Drew will continue their defense of AG.....until they are once again, proven wrong.......although there are still some pretty strong Drew supportors out there....nothing surprises me anymore......
     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from 111SoxFan111. Show 111SoxFan111's posts

    Re: Gonzalez

    In Response to Re: Gonzalez:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Gonzalez : I am sorry but I guess you missed the point Billy Muelllar was a journeyman that is why I brought his name up to compare him w/ AG. You brought up Manny Rameriz?  Tony C?  Lynn?  Really?  Of course you would expect similar output. Anyways, I stand by the point I made last year - and compare AG to Billy Muellar.....154 million for Muellar?  No way but I loved his style of play.  Let me know when AG knocks Rivera off the field - TWICE...once w/ a Homer and once in an elimination playoff game........Never gonna happen........
    Posted by andrewmitch[/QUOTE]

    Man, Billy was awesome in 2003.  Remember he hit two GS in a single game ... one from each side of the plate.  What a season for him.  It was so much better than any season he had before or after ... a real black swan event and the Sox really hit the Lotto on that one.

    AGon has similar OPS to Mueller's 2003 season but over 1000 GAMES.  I fail to see how that comparison furthers the discussion.  Ramirez might be a good comp.  I doubt AGon will be as much of an offensive force as Ramirez was.  But Ramirez was a liability in the field and AGon is a GG fielder.  Interesting question as to which contract will be better ... 
     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from SpacemanEephus. Show SpacemanEephus's posts

    Re: Gonzalez

    In Response to Re: Gonzalez:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Gonzalez : I am sorry but I guess you missed the point Billy Muelllar was a journeyman that is why I brought his name up to compare him w/ AG. You brought up Manny Rameriz?  Tony C?  Lynn?  Really?  Of course you would expect similar output. Anyways, I stand by the point I made last year - and compare AG to Billy Muellar.....154 million for Muellar?  No way but I loved his style of play.  Let me know when AG knocks Rivera off the field - TWICE...once w/ a Homer and once in an elimination playoff game........Never gonna happen........
    Posted by andrewmitch[/QUOTE]

    OK, in the sense that the Gonzalez verdict is out until he makes playoff magic happen, fine.  I concede Meullar is better, by virtue of not even being able to make the comparison.

    But, Bill Meullar vs. Adrian Gonzalez as baseball players?  I will save my breath and let the staggering offensive statistical differences do the talking.  

    And as for this totally subjective style of play thing, fine.  Bill Meullar, dirt dog.  I loved his style of play too.  But I also love Adrian's style of play.  Smoooth.  Methodical.  I appreciate that.  A true baseball man.  You see it opposite.  Fine.  I will never try and argue something with such subjective weight as fact.



     
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  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from devildavid. Show devildavid's posts

    Re: Gonzalez

    Gonzalez needs to be a slugger for the Sox to be a championship caliber team. His position in the batting order requires this. He has not done this so far this season. He needs to do it all the time. Life and baseball are not fair. If Papi needs to be a force, so does Adrian. It's time for him to get with the program.
     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from SpacemanEephus. Show SpacemanEephus's posts

    Re: Gonzalez

    In Response to Re: Gonzalez:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Gonzalez : The numbers are misleading. Gonzalez is not hitting the ball with authority. ( I doubt those two balls leave the park elsewhere. They just as easily might have been caught in some parks. Petco, for instance. )  He is repeatedly being challenged right down Broadway and not connecting. He is chasing bad pitches too much. In short, "right now" he doesn't look like himself at the plate.  When a player is signed to hit home runs is not doing it, you have to pay  attention. Close attention. I'm not sure your statement about power hitters in cold weather will hold up to close scrutiny over a long enough period of time. One implication of what you are saying that is that Gonzalez might be better suited to playing in a warm climate. He didn't hit last April and September, and so far he has not hit in the early going this year. The Sox need him to hammer the ball in those months -- at the start and at the finish.  On balance so far this year, he has not been a big help to the club on offense. Any number of first basemen could so far have put up similar numbers to his. And, as I said, a few timely hits would probably have won games for the Sox. He once said, "That won't happen again." The 0 for 8 hasn't happened again, but not not coming through when needed has. Look, I expect him to hit better, maybe a lot better, with impressive power. But the "right now" is just that. Players have had bad years. He probably won't have one. But until he turns it around, "right now" is not what he's on the team for.
    Posted by expitch[/QUOTE]

    I don't know expitch.  I will take a .900+ OPS over the course of a season anyday.  I too want him to hit more HRs.  But, paying close attention, it is clear that he is finding his stroke over the past couple weeks. It is clear that his eye/mechanics are getting in better sync.  He isn't getting fooled as much as he was in september.  Yes, we need him to hit in September/October and he did not do so last September, so the verdict is still out in that regard.  Good point.  But, I think it is myopic to look at HRs as "what he was signed to do".  His dip in HRs last season (most likely because of shoulder) is hardly a big disappointment when you put those 27 in context with the RBIs, the OPS, the slugging (2nd best of his career), the career high average.  I am of the camp that says HRs is actually not what Gonzalez was signed for.  It is one aspect of the main reason, which is that he is one of the premier hitters in baseball, and hits with power to boot.  
     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from 111SoxFan111. Show 111SoxFan111's posts

    Re: Gonzalez

    Space - You and I are on the same side of this argument but I need to point this out.  AGon had a .977 OPS last September.  Sure more XBH would have been good, but you really can't use September as a sign of AGon's supposed decline.  If anyone wants to use Sept to question how much a hitter is paid, they should look at Ortiz (1HR .769 OPS).  His Sept was much worse than AGon's and his salary decision came during the following offseason. BTW, how has that worked out so far?
     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from SpacemanEephus. Show SpacemanEephus's posts

    Re: Gonzalez

    In Response to Re: Gonzalez:
    [QUOTE]Space - You and I are on the same side of this argument but I need to point this out.   AGon had a .977 OPS last September .  Sure more XBH would have been good, but you really can't use September as a sign of AGon's supposed decline.  If anyone wants to use Sept to question how much a hitter is paid, they should look at Ortiz (1HR .769 OPS).  His Sept was much worse than AGon's and his salary decision came during the following offseason. BTW, how has that worked out so far?
    Posted by 111SoxFan111[/QUOTE]

    Good point about Adrian's September 111. 
     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from aussiewill2. Show aussiewill2's posts

    Re: Gonzalez

    If you want to put a player's value to the test, ask the question. Bottom of the ninth two outs Sox down by a run runner on second , how would you rate the hitter you would like to have at the plate. I would rate them 1. Ortiz ( that's easy) 2. Pedroia (easy) 3. Ellsbury ( when in the lineup) 4. Youk ( when healthy) 5. Gonzo . 
     
    For a guy on $20 mil per season for 7 years wouldn't one expect this player  would rank at least 2nd. He's not , when push comes to shove , he will not come through in the clutch. He goes 0 for 8 strikes out against a first baseman. Those who think he was a great signing, what team would pick up his contract if they put Gonzo on waivers? None.
     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from andrewmitch. Show andrewmitch's posts

    Re: Gonzalez

    In Response to Re: Gonzalez:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Gonzalez : OK, in the sense that the Gonzalez verdict is out until he makes playoff magic happen, fine.  I concede Meullar is better, by virtue of not even being able to make the comparison. But, Bill Meullar vs. Adrian Gonzalez as baseball players?  I will save my breath and let the staggering offensive statistical differences do the talking.   And as for this totally subjective style of play thing, fine.  Bill Meullar, dirt dog.  I loved his style of play too.  But I also love Adrian's style of play.  Smoooth.  Methodical.  I appreciate that.  A true baseball man.  You see it opposite.  Fine.  I will never try and argue something with such subjective weight as fact.
    Posted by SpacemanEephus[/QUOTE]

    Look at Adrian's stats as a Red Sox only and understand I am using Billy's single best season (2003) - so I will admit that I am hedging but still it's a fair comparison
     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from SpacemanEephus. Show SpacemanEephus's posts

    Re: Gonzalez

    In Response to Re: Gonzalez:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Gonzalez : Look at Adrian's stats as a Red Sox only and understand I am using Billy's single best season (2003) - so I will admit that I am hedging but still it's a fair comparison
    Posted by andrewmitch[/QUOTE]

    OK.  As long as we are clear on what we are comparing.  So, let us see how this year plays out and revisit.
     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from andrewmitch. Show andrewmitch's posts

    Re: Gonzalez

    In Response to Re: Gonzalez:
    [QUOTE]Gonzalez needs to be a slugger for the Sox to be a championship caliber team. His position in the batting order requires this. He has not done this so far this season. He needs to do it all the time. Life and baseball are not fair. If Papi needs to be a force, so does Adrian. It's time for him to get with the program.
    Posted by devildavid[/QUOTE]

    Yes, and this was the arguement AGAINST Drew.   He was brought in to bat in the middle of the order and to be a run producer.  There is no disputing that.  His contract supported that.  But when he becomes purely a guy who can take more than his fair share of walks, the spin comes out and we are told this is what he was brought here for.

    I can't wait to hear that AG was brought here to be a good defensive 1B.  Why not just keep Kotchman if that were the case?
     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from expitch. Show expitch's posts

    Re: Gonzalez

    In Response to Re: Gonzalez:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Gonzalez : I don't know expitch.  I will take a .900+ OPS over the course of a season anyday.  I too want him to hit more HRs.  But, paying close attention, it is clear that he is finding his stroke over the past couple weeks. It is clear that his eye/mechanics are getting in better sync.  He isn't getting fooled as much as he was in september.  Yes, we need him to hit in September/October and he did not do so last September, so the verdict is still out in that regard.  Good point.  But, I think it is myopic to look at HRs as "what he was signed to do".  His dip in HRs last season (most likely because of shoulder) is hardly a big disappointment when you put those 27 in context with the RBIs, the OPS, the slugging (2nd best of his career), the career high average.  I am of the camp that says HRs is actually not what Gonzalez was signed for.  It is one aspect of the main reason, which is that he is one of the premier hitters in baseball, and hits with power to boot.  
    Posted by SpacemanEephus[/QUOTE]
    When you sign a power-hitting first baseman, you sign him to hit the ball out of the park. Are you saying that that wasn't in Theo's mind?
    The dip in homers last season might be traced to his shoulder, but he's healthy this year. Look, I don't deny that Gonzalez had a good year at the plate last season, even though he tailed off somewhat after the break. What I am saying is that he has not been a notable help to the offense ( as I see his function ) so far this season. I don't know how that observation can be got round. He is rightly expected to punish the ball, especially when the big hit would make a big difference. He hasn't been doing that. Long balls in the middle of the lineup change the complexion of a game, and affect the opponent's strategy. 
    He looks a little better at the plate but not good, IMO, as I have been following pitch by pitch. And pitchers will continue to challenge him until he turns a few of those fat pitches around. I'll bet that is the book on him NOW. 
    Like you, I like his "smooth, methodical style." When he's on both in the field and at the plate, his performance is like a work of art. But I can comment only on what I've seen so far, for what those comments are worth. I appreciate your point of view. The season is in the 7th week, heading towards 1/3 of it. That's a hunk of time.
    I hope he breaks out against Tampa and continues to rake on the trip. And has a terrific season. As should all Sox fans.

     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from 111SoxFan111. Show 111SoxFan111's posts

    Re: Gonzalez

    In Response to Re: Gonzalez:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Gonzalez : Look at Adrian's stats as a Red Sox only and understand I am using Billy's single best season (2003) - so I will admit that I am hedging but still it's a fair comparison
    Posted by andrewmitch[/QUOTE]
    It is a fair comparison if you simply say, "AG's career averages are similar to Mueller's one great year."  You weren't saying that, you were judging AGon's contract by comparing that to paying Mueller the same amount.  The argument is dishonest and your spin of the argument is equally dishonest.

    Above you say, "look at Adrian's stats as a Red Sox only."  I have looked at that.  His OPS as a Red Sox is higher than his career OPS.  
     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from andrewmitch. Show andrewmitch's posts

    Re: Gonzalez

    In Response to Re: Gonzalez:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Gonzalez : When you sign a power-hitting first baseman, you sign him to hit the ball out of the park. Are you saying that that wasn't in Theo's mind? The dip in homers last season might be traced to his shoulder, but he's healthy this year. Look, I don't deny that Gonzalez had a good year at the plate last season, even though he tailed off somewhat after the break. What I am saying is that he has not been a notable help to the offense ( as I see his function ) so far this season. I don't know how that observation can be got round. He is rightly expected to punish the ball, especially when the big hit would make a big difference. He hasn't been doing that. Long balls in the middle of the lineup change the complexion of a game, and affect the opponent's strategy.  He looks a little better at the plate but not good, IMO, as I have been following pitch by pitch. And pitchers will continue to challenge him until he turns a few of those fat pitches around. I'll bet that is the book on him NOW.  Like you, I like his "smooth, methodical style." When he's on both in the field and at the plate, his performance is like a work of art. But I can comment only on what I've seen so far, for what those comments are worth. I appreciate your point of view. The season is in the 7th week, heading towards 1/3 of it. That's a hunk of time. I hope he breaks out against Tampa and continues to rake on the trip. And has a terrific season. As should all Sox fans.
    Posted by expitch[/QUOTE]

    Unfortunately, the problem with Theo and many of his followers is that they don't think HR's and RBI are the best stats to look at; in fact Theo would say RBI is a meaningless stat.  They prefer to use OPS which I believe I have wrote many times why that stat can be very misleading and not the proper way to gauge production....
     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from SpacemanEephus. Show SpacemanEephus's posts

    Re: Gonzalez

    In Response to Re: Gonzalez:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Gonzalez : When you sign a power-hitting first baseman, you sign him to hit the ball out of the park. Are you saying that that wasn't in Theo's mind? The dip in homers last season might be traced to his shoulder, but he's healthy this year. Look, I don't deny that Gonzalez had a good year at the plate last season, even though he tailed off somewhat after the break. What I am saying is that he has not been a notable help to the offense ( as I see his function ) so far this season. I don't know how that observation can be got round. He is rightly expected to punish the ball, especially when the big hit would make a big difference. He hasn't been doing that. Long balls in the middle of the lineup change the complexion of a game, and affect the opponent's strategy.  He looks a little better at the plate but not good, IMO, as I have been following pitch by pitch. And pitchers will continue to challenge him until he turns a few of those fat pitches around. I'll bet that is the book on him NOW.  Like you, I like his "smooth, methodical style." When he's on both in the field and at the plate, his performance is like a work of art. But I can comment only on what I've seen so far, for what those comments are worth. I appreciate your point of view. The season is in the 7th week, heading towards 1/3 of it. That's a hunk of time. I hope he breaks out against Tampa and continues to rake on the trip. And has a terrific season. As should all Sox fans.
    Posted by expitch[/QUOTE]

    Certainly, as we approach a third of the season, we are upon the hour where "slow starting power hitter" is no longer a valid excuse.  So, this suddenly raging debate over Adrian's performance and performance indicators makes sense.  And I am not defending his slow start.  I am merely asserting, given his history of performance, that I believe he is already turning it around and before long he will be doing exactly what he is supposed to be doing.  His eye and his mechanics were all afoul last month.  But looking at these past couple weeks, while he is not "punishing" balls yet, he is getting his feel back.  He is hitting.  And, maybe they are not punishing, but he had 7 hits last week, 6 of them doubles, and I'm pretty sure he isn't stretching singles with his wheels.  These are clear signs to me that he starting to get locked in.  Once he is fully locked, in my estimation right about nowish, the dingers will start popping, and the pitchers will give him his due respect again.  If I am wrong, well, then I will unhappily concede that he is a bust and somehow lost his skills in the last 12 months.  But I find that very hard to believe.  Much more likely, he has been going through what even the best hitters go through quite often, a stretch where he just isn't seeing the ball or whatever.  Albeit a long one.  But, I see in this past couple weeks a progressive return to bopping.  
     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from SpacemanEephus. Show SpacemanEephus's posts

    Re: Gonzalez

    In Response to Re: Gonzalez:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Gonzalez : Unfortunately, the problem with Theo and many of his followers is that they don't think HR's and RBI are the best stats to look at; in fact Theo would say RBI is a meaningless stat.  They prefer to use OPS which I believe I have wrote many times why that stat can be very misleading and not the proper way to gauge production....
    Posted by andrewmitch[/QUOTE]

    You are right with this.  So, lets talk RBIs.
     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from dannycater. Show dannycater's posts

    Re: Gonzalez

    It's May 16, AGON is getting slammed by the board. I'll tell you what, I'm calling it right here. AGON will hit 30 home runs, drive in 100, and hit .325 or better. I'm not sure people get how good he was just last year...sickeningly good numbers, guy nearly reached base 300 times, led MLB in hits with 213...oh yeah, and he hits for more power than Boggs, drives in more runs than Yaz, and is one of the few guys on the team I absolutely feel is a sure bet to get a key hit. I'm not worried, never have, never will..not about AGON...guy is a natural.
     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from andrewmitch. Show andrewmitch's posts

    Re: Gonzalez

    In Response to Re: Gonzalez:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Gonzalez : You are right with this.  So, lets talk RBIs.
    Posted by SpacemanEephus[/QUOTE]

    Sure, in 2011 his RBI total was great.  For 2012, he is way off that pace.
     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from andrewmitch. Show andrewmitch's posts

    Re: Gonzalez

    325/30/100 is "sickening good"? 

    For a first baseman?

    Earning over 150 million?

    I'd say that is merely "meeting expecations"

    Of course, he is yet to hit 30 HR's as a Red Sox.......
     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from andrewmitch. Show andrewmitch's posts

    Re: Gonzalez

    In Response to Re: Gonzalez:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Gonzalez : Certainly, as we approach a third of the season, we are upon the hour where "slow starting power hitter" is no longer a valid excuse.  So, this suddenly raging debate over Adrian's performance and performance indicators makes sense.  And I am not defending his slow start.  I am merely asserting, given his history of performance, that I believe he is already turning it around and before long he will be doing exactly what he is supposed to be doing.  His eye and his mechanics were all afoul last month.  But looking at these past couple weeks, while he is not "punishing" balls yet, he is getting his feel back.  He is hitting.  And, maybe they are not punishing, but he had 7 hits last week, 6 of them doubles, and I'm pretty sure he isn't stretching singles with his wheels.  These are clear signs to me that he starting to get locked in.  Once he is fully locked, in my estimation right about nowish, the dingers will start popping, and the pitchers will give him his due respect again.  If I am wrong, well, then I will unhappily concede that he is a bust and somehow lost his skills in the last 12 months.  But I find that very hard to believe.  Much more likely, he has been going through what even the best hitters go through quite often, a stretch where he just isn't seeing the ball or whatever.  Albeit a long one.  But, I see in this past couple weeks a progressive return to bopping.  
    Posted by SpacemanEephus[/QUOTE]

    getting his feel back from what exactly?  he's paid a fortune and we gave up a lot so he will always have his feel.......every game......
     
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