Gonzalez

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from SpacemanEephus. Show SpacemanEephus's posts

    Re: Gonzalez

    In Response to Re: Gonzalez:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Gonzalez : getting his feel back from what exactly?  he's paid a fortune and we gave up a lot so he will always have his feel.......every game......
    Posted by andrewmitch[/QUOTE]

    C'mon andrew.  This is baseball.  Everyone, EVERYONE (hitters anyway), loses his feel, and not infrequently.  If the great ones didn't lose their feel, we would have guys hitting 100+ HRs, 300 RBIS, .400 averages all the time.  The mechanics and split second timing of hitting are unforgiving.  The notion that he is being paid to always have his feel doesn't stack up, because that is impossible.
     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from andrewmitch. Show andrewmitch's posts

    Re: Gonzalez

    He should always have his feel.  Slumps are part of it but to lose your "feel"?  I'm not buying it........
     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from SpacemanEephus. Show SpacemanEephus's posts

    Re: Gonzalez

    In Response to Re: Gonzalez:
    [QUOTE]He should always have his feel.  Slumps are part of it but to lose your "feel"?  I'm not buying it........
    Posted by andrewmitch[/QUOTE]

    OK, I cannot sell what you won't buy.  But, now we are getting into semantics.  I would venture to say that slumps are what happen when you lose your feel.  
     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from andrewmitch. Show andrewmitch's posts

    Re: Gonzalez

    I've noticed you chose to ingore the talk on RBI?  Or is that another semantic?
     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from 111SoxFan111. Show 111SoxFan111's posts

    Re: Gonzalez

    In Response to Re: Gonzalez:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Gonzalez : Sure, in 2011 his RBI total was great.  For 2012, he is way off that pace.
    Posted by andrewmitch[/QUOTE]
    FWIW, we just passed one fifth of the season and are approaching one quarter ... not one third.  I won't deny that AGon has not lived up to his career numbers so far this year.  He is currently on pace for 90 RBI.  

    I would disagree with anyone saying he was less than impressive last year based solely upon the fact he "only" hit 27 HR.  This is off-base as # of HR isn't a sign of success or failure in a vacuum.  What matters is helping the team and you do that by creating runs and saving runs.  He created plenty of runs and provided stellar defense.  Did he live up to the hype or any single person's expectations ... that is subjective.  Objectively, he has been off this year.  But with a player of his caliber over a 1000 GAME SAMPLE SIZE, I think it's premature to say he is a bust based on 36 subpar games this year ... especially in light of what he did last year ... and the prior 5 years.  He probably won't be Manny c.2005 with the bat (close maybe but not quite that good) ... but then again, he won't be Manny with the glove either.
     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from harv53. Show harv53's posts

    Re: Gonzalez

    In Response to Re: Gonzalez:
    [QUOTE]Six million a year is a pretty big financial commitment for a guy who's done absolutely nothing. And Mike Aviles and Cody Ross each have more runs batted in and a better slugging percentage than Gonzalez. Daniel Nava has one home run less than Gonzo and he's batted fifteen times this year.
    Posted by davetheknave[/QUOTE]

    I can be selective with stats too. Agon has a .360 OBP compared to .292 and .321 for Aviles and Ross respectively.
    Agon has a .287 BA but his BABIP is .339. Compare that to Aviles at .260 with a .270 BABIP.
    Ross's BABIP is .301 but is .267 over his last 14 days.
    I won't even begin to compare defensive stats. No comparison.
     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from andrewmitch. Show andrewmitch's posts

    Re: Gonzalez

    In Response to Re: Gonzalez:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Gonzalez : FWIW, we just passed one fifth of the season and are approaching one quarter ... not one third.  I won't deny that AGon has not lived up to his career numbers so far this year.  He is currently on pace for 90 RBI .   I would disagree with anyone saying he was less than impressive last year based solely upon the fact he "only" hit 27 HR.  This is off-base as # of HR isn't a sign of success or failure in a vacuum.  What matters is helping the team and you do that by creating runs and saving runs.  He created plenty of runs and provided stellar defense.  Did he live up to the hype or any single person's expectations ... that is subjective.  Objectively, he has been off this year.  But with a player of his caliber over a 1000 GAME SAMPLE SIZE , I think it's premature to say he is a bust based on 36 subpar games this year ... especially in light of what he did last year ... and the prior 5 years.  He probably won't be Manny c.2005 with the bat (close maybe but not quite that good) ... but then again, he won't be Manny with the glove either.
    Posted by 111SoxFan111[/QUOTE]\

    Are you indicating that I said the season is one-third over?  If so, can you please provide that?

    I know he's on pace for 90 RBI (vs 117); which is whay I said he is way off.  Do you think 90 RBI would be considered to be "Meeting Expectations" for AG?
     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from Roadrunner9234. Show Roadrunner9234's posts

    Re: Gonzalez

    Andrew, I don't think you ever played the game.

    Anyone who's ever stood at the plate with a bat in their hands knows what it's like to lose their timing, balance, hand-eye coordination...their feel. Whatever that is that allows them to hit a baseball well.
     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from andrewmitch. Show andrewmitch's posts

    Re: Gonzalez

    In Response to Re: Gonzalez:
    [QUOTE]Andrew, I don't think you ever played the game.
    Posted by Roadrunner9234[/QUOTE]

    Uh huh.......can you please post your baseball card on here?  Thanks.
     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from BosoxJoe5. Show BosoxJoe5's posts

    Re: Gonzalez

    In response to "Re: Gonzalez": [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Gonzalez : Unfortunately, the problem with Theo and many of his followers is that they don't think HR's and RBI are the best stats to look at; in fact Theo would say RBI is a meaningless stat.  They prefer to use OPS which I believe I have wrote many times why that stat can be very misleading and not the proper way to gauge production.... Posted by andrewmitch[/QUOTE] OPS is by far the best way to gauge production the only thing is could be better is OPS+ because it Is normalize.
     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from Roadrunner9234. Show Roadrunner9234's posts

    Re: Gonzalez

    I didn't play beyond little league, and my point is still valid.
     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from andrewmitch. Show andrewmitch's posts

    Re: Gonzalez

    You're point can not be valid because you're "point" is not true.

    In fact, you have no point.  You are just someone who makes claims about people who they do not know.

    Good luck to you though......
     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from harv53. Show harv53's posts

    Re: Gonzalez

    I don't know what games some of you are watching but Agon is simply not getting good pitches to hit. he is not being "challenged" by pitchers, as some here have indicated. No need to cahllenge him because he's hitting 4th and there is no one behind him of significance.
    He's been going the other way a lot because that's where everyone is pitching him. doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure that out.
    Would you rather he roll over on those pitches and hit a weak ground ball to 2B?
    I'll take doubles off the wall all day long.
    He's hitting .405 w/RISP folks. Get a clue!
     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from SpacemanEephus. Show SpacemanEephus's posts

    Re: Gonzalez

    In Response to Re: Gonzalez:
    [QUOTE]I don't know what games some of you are watching but Agon is simply not getting good pitches to hit. he is not being "challenged" by pitchers, as some here have indicated. No need to cahllenge him because he's hitting 4th and there is no one behind him of significance. He's been going the other way a lot because that's where everyone is pitching him. doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure that out. Would you rather he roll over on those pitches and hit a weak ground ball to 2B? I'll take doubles off the wall all day long. He's hitting .405 w/RISP folks. Get a clue!
    Posted by harv53[/QUOTE]

    Right harv.  To wit, everyone points to the shoulder/HR Derby as the cause of his 2nd half power dip.  Partially.  But, I think Youk going down was as signficant a factor.  He didn't see a good pitch after the middle of july.
     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from Roadrunner9234. Show Roadrunner9234's posts

    Re: Gonzalez

    The point is hitters go in and out of the zone. And similar to something Space said, if it weren't true hitters wouldn't go into occasional slumps.

    You are so demonstrably wrong on this it's not even worth the time it's taken me to refute your point.

     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from 111SoxFan111. Show 111SoxFan111's posts

    Re: Gonzalez

    In Response to Re: Gonzalez:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Gonzalez : \ Are you indicating that I said the season is one-third over?  If so, can you please provide that? I know he's on pace for 90 RBI (vs 117); which is whay I said he is way off.  Do you think 90 RBI would be considered to be "Meeting Expectations" for AG?
    Posted by andrewmitch[/QUOTE]

    Expitch said 1/3 of the season and others took that and started using it.  I didn't mean to imply you said it, but I wanted to make sure we had the right info when extrapolating his RBI pace so far this year since 60 and 90 are very very different.

    I clearly stated that AGon was off so far this year ... no one disputes that.  90 RBI isn't enough given his contract ... but for a smallish sample from a guy who started slow last year too, it isn't a number that makes me hit the panic button yet.  Like I have said more than once, I think he will be fine based on:
    1 - a 1000 game sample that indicates he is an elite hitter and GG first baseman
    2 - he had a fine season last year
    3 - the claim his slump started last year can't be substantiated beyond counting HR (he had a .977 OPS last September and some people here claim he was awful in Sept???)

    If he is still off in July/August I will start to worry but even then it would be premature to call the contract a bust.  Everyone is always so eager to use the NOW to predict the future even when a long history contradicts what is happening right now.
    Yell
     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from dannycater. Show dannycater's posts

    Re: Gonzalez

    andrew doesn't think reaching base 300 times in a season is good enough. Apparently he wants 1984 Tony Armas. I actually don't care if Gonzalez hits 20 home runs. If he drives in 110 and gets on base at a .400 clip, he's fine by me.
     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from 111SoxFan111. Show 111SoxFan111's posts

    Re: Gonzalez

    In Response to Re: Gonzalez:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Gonzalez : Sure, in 2011 his RBI total was great.  For 2012, he is way off that pace.
    Posted by andrewmitch[/QUOTE]

    So are you saying he earned his money last year? Is your only problem that he is off that pace so far this year?  If he hits 95 RBI over the next 126 games will you say he was good?  

    I am just wondering what your actual position is here ... it's hard to tell when you keep switching arguments and asking if Billy Mueller was worth $150m or whatever.  Take a clear position: What does AGon need to do for you to feel like he is worth $21m/year?
     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from harv53. Show harv53's posts

    Re: Gonzalez

    Why is no complaining about the millions thrown away to these guys on the DL?
    At least Agon is on the field day in and day out.
     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from andrewmitch. Show andrewmitch's posts

    Re: Gonzalez

    In Response to Re: Gonzalez:
    [QUOTE]andrew doesn't think reaching base 300 times in a season is good enough. Apparently he wants 1984 Tony Armas. I actually don't care if Gonzalez hits 20 home runs. If he drives in 110 and gets on base at a .400 clip, he's fine by me.
    Posted by dannycater[/QUOTE]

    fair points but there's only one problem with that:  he's not even close to giving you 110 RBI/400 OBP/300 H + BB ............
     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from andrewmitch. Show andrewmitch's posts

    Re: Gonzalez

    In Response to Re: Gonzalez:
    [QUOTE]Why is no complaining about the millions thrown away to these guys on the DL? At least Agon is on the field day in and day out.
    Posted by harv53[/QUOTE]

    I am complaining about all the dead contracts and AGone is not our biggest problem by far.......but the 154 million was not allocated properly....that coupled w/ the ripple effect (Youk/Beltre) is what I have issue with.  I've been pretty consistent here.........
     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from dannycater. Show dannycater's posts

    Re: Gonzalez

    Now this is where sort of agree. I never advocated for the Sox to throw a boatload of money to get AGON as I felt they had a very good combo of Youks at 1b, Beltre at 3B, and even VMART as a C-1B-DH for Ortiz when  David couldn't hit lefties. To me, they had good defense with Youks/Beltre and they had plenty of hitting between the 4 guys. This is also why I felt CC signing was even more ridiculous as why spend 142 mil on a guy who was a B version copy of your CF. Then you consider the 83 spent on Lackey, who again at the time of the deal, it didn't seem like the Sox were entirely hurting at SP...they had Beckett, Lester, Buchholz, yes Wakefield. So now we're talking about 400 million dollars spent at times where you just have to wonder what exactly was the thinking. On AGON, they really had the bridge year to allow them to see AGON become a free agent. That's how badly they wanted him. No player should be wanted 2 seasons away. Ever.
     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from dannycater. Show dannycater's posts

    Re: Gonzalez

    The devil's advocate or 20-20 hindsight is that Youks has since fallen apart, Middlebrooks could be a great one at 3b, and AGON is the team's All-Star 1b. While Ortiz has done a Bagger Vance on us all. He's done FOUND his stroke against lefties, against the shift, everything like he did during the primo Manny years.
     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from BosoxJoe5. Show BosoxJoe5's posts

    Re: Gonzalez

    In response to "Re: Gonzalez": [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Gonzalez : I am complaining about all the dead contracts and AGone is not our biggest problem by far.......but the 154 million was not allocated properly....that coupled w/ the ripple effect (Youk/Beltre) is what I have issue with.  I've been pretty consistent here......... Posted by andrewmitch[/QUOTE] If Gonzalez is the biggest problem then this team with his current stats this team would be on pace to win 100 games, there are much more pressing issues on this team.
     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from 111SoxFan111. Show 111SoxFan111's posts

    Re: Gonzalez

    In Response to Re: Gonzalez:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Gonzalez : fair points but there's only one problem with that:  he's not even close to giving you 110 RBI/400 OBP/300 H + BB ............
    Posted by andrewmitch[/QUOTE]

    He's on pace for 90 RBI / .360 OBP / 257 H+BB ... that's with 22% of the season done so it's pretty easy for the #'s to go up or down.  Up is more likely since that's where his career average is but who knows.  

    Andrew: I will ask again, what end of season stats will make you think his salary is reasonable?  If he goes 110 RBI / .380 OBP / 280 H+BB, would that do it?  If not, then what?
     

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