Gonzalez

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from maxbialystock. Show maxbialystock's posts

    Re: Gonzalez

    AGon is good value for the Sox.  The power will return.  Plus he already has made a better hitter out of Ortiz by showing him how to go the other way.  AGon is also fun to watch, a real pro.  Youk was good at 1B too and always hustled, but was prone to tantrums and way too willing to mouth off to the press.  AGon was more than happy to play RF last year so Ortiz could play 1B, and was fine.  Youk was a disaster in the OF. 
     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from andrewmitch. Show andrewmitch's posts

    Re: Gonzalez

    In Response to Re: Gonzalez:
    [QUOTE]Now this is where sort of agree. I never advocated for the Sox to throw a boatload of money to get AGON as I felt they had a very good combo of Youks at 1b, Beltre at 3B, and even VMART as a C-1B-DH for Ortiz when  David couldn't hit lefties. To me, they had good defense with Youks/Beltre and they had plenty of hitting between the 4 guys. This is also why I felt CC signing was even more ridiculous as why spend 142 mil on a guy who was a B version copy of your CF. Then you consider the 83 spent on Lackey, who again at the time of the deal, it didn't seem like the Sox were entirely hurting at SP...they had Beckett, Lester, Buchholz, yes Wakefield. So now we're talking about 400 million dollars spent at times where you just have to wonder what exactly was the thinking. On AGON, they really had the bridge year to allow them to see AGON become a free agent. That's how badly they wanted him. No player should be wanted 2 seasons away. Ever.
    Posted by dannycater[/QUOTE]


    Exactly
     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from andrewmitch. Show andrewmitch's posts

    Re: Gonzalez

    In Response to Re: Gonzalez:
    [QUOTE]The devil's advocate or 20-20 hindsight is that Youks has since fallen apart, Middlebrooks could be a great one at 3b, and AGON is the team's All-Star 1b. While Ortiz has done a Bagger Vance on us all. He's done FOUND his stroke against lefties, against the shift, everything like he did during the primo Manny years.
    Posted by dannycater[/QUOTE]

    I firmly believe that Youk stays healthy and productive (excluding the thumb injury) if he remained at 1B
     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from 86redsox. Show 86redsox's posts

    Re: Gonzalez

    Good point about the lineup ( pitched around).
     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from andrewmitch. Show andrewmitch's posts

    Re: Gonzalez

    In Response to Re: Gonzalez:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Gonzalez : He's on pace for 90 RBI / .360 OBP / 257 H+BB ... that's with 22% of the season done so it's pretty easy for the #'s to go up or down.  Up is more likely since that's where his career average is but who knows.   Andrew: I will ask again, what end of season stats will make you think his salary is reasonable?  If he goes 110 RBI / .380 OBP / 280 H+BB, would that do it?  If not, then what?
    Posted by 111SoxFan111[/QUOTE]

    Tough to say exactly.  Remember we were sold that 40 HR in SD = 50 in Fenway.  Just like Drew was going to be the new clean up hitter once Theo could deal away Manny.

    Also, averages don't tell the whole the story.  Consistency is what counts....

    And finally, there is coming through in key spots which the stats won't tell.

    But 300/400/30/ and club leader in RBI would be stats.  Of course, I'd also want to benchmark him against 1b and also look at $.......
     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from 111SoxFan111. Show 111SoxFan111's posts

    Re: Gonzalez

    That's not unreasonable, though club leader in RBI is a bit out of his control.  We are paying the best DH in baseball $14m for this season ... we might have some expectations of him too.  Not to mention Will is on pace for 200 RBI last time I checked ;)
     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from andrewmitch. Show andrewmitch's posts

    Re: Gonzalez

    Well, he should be the club leader in RBI

    1 yr/14 vs 7 yr/154 ?  Come on. no comparison there.......

    Will does not have any projectable sample size; AG does

    As I said, AG's stats don't bother me - it was the gross misallocation of resources that does
     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from 111SoxFan111. Show 111SoxFan111's posts

    Re: Gonzalez

    I don't know why you think AGon's contract was a gross misallocation.  He is a premier hitter and defensive first baseman entering his prime.  His prior 1000 games support that status and the contract.  Last year's stats don't support your position and it's too early to draw conclusions from this one.  I liked Beltre but he was much more of a risk at 5 years than AGon at 7.
     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from expitch. Show expitch's posts

    Re: Gonzalez

    In Response to Re: Gonzalez:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Gonzalez : Expitch said 1/3 of the season and others took that and started using it.  I didn't mean to imply you said it, but I wanted to make sure we had the right info when extrapolating his RBI pace so far this year since 60 and 90 are very very different. I clearly stated that AGon was off so far this year ... no one disputes that.  90 RBI isn't enough given his contract ... but for a smallish sample from a guy who started slow last year too, it isn't a number that makes me hit the panic button yet.  Like I have said more than once, I think he will be fine based on: 1 - a 1000 game sample that indicates he is an elite hitter and GG first baseman 2 - he had a fine season last year 3 - the claim his slump started last year can't be substantiated beyond counting HR (he had a .977 OPS last September and some people here claim he was awful in Sept???) If he is still off in July/August I will start to worry but even then it would be premature to call the contract a bust.  Everyone is always so eager to use the NOW to predict the future even when a long history contradicts what is happening right now.
    Posted by 111SoxFan111[/QUOTE]
    What is happening right now contradicts a long history, but right now might not continue for long. We hope.

     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from andrewmitch. Show andrewmitch's posts

    Re: Gonzalez

    154 million for a 1B?

    We already had Youk

    We could have spent that $ elsewhere

    Thus, misallocation
     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from expitch. Show expitch's posts

    Re: Gonzalez

    In Response to Re: Gonzalez:
    [QUOTE]I don't know what games some of you are watching but Agon is simply not getting good pitches to hit. he is not being "challenged" by pitchers, as some here have indicated. No need to cahllenge him because he's hitting 4th and there is no one behind him of significance. He's been going the other way a lot because that's where everyone is pitching him. doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure that out. Would you rather he roll over on those pitches and hit a weak ground ball to 2B? I'll take doubles off the wall all day long. He's hitting .405 w/RISP folks. Get a clue!
    Posted by harv53[/QUOTE] 
    He has been hitting weak ground balls to second base. He gets jammed on balls on the inner third. He swings and misses pitches right down the pipe. If he continues to hit the kind of rainbows off the monster on the road, they will not be doubles.
    Protection is overrated. Pitchers are not bullseye throwers. Not even the best all the time. They make mistakes. Gonzalez is not hitting mistakes.
    You and I are watching different ballgames.

     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from dannycater. Show dannycater's posts

    Re: Gonzalez

    In Response to Re: Gonzalez:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Gonzalez : I am paying attention to what is happening now and it makes me miss Billy Muellar, his gritty play, clutch hits and affordable salary even more!
    Posted by andrewmitch[/QUOTE]
    It's Bill Mueller, I think you are thinking of that two-headed monster known as Kevill Muellar
     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from dannycater. Show dannycater's posts

    Re: Gonzalez

    In Response to Re: Gonzalez:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Gonzalez :   He has been hitting weak ground balls to second base. He gets jammed on balls on the inner third. He swings and misses pitches right down the pipe. If he continues to hit the kind of rainbows off the monster on the road, they will not be doubles. Protection is overrated. Pitchers are not bullseye throwers. Not even the best all the time. They make mistakes. Gonzalez is not hitting mistakes. You and I are watching different ballgames.
    Posted by expitch[/QUOTE]

    uh, see in MLB, there's this thing called, um, what's it called, um...a slump. Yeah, that's it. That's the ticket. Albert Pujols? Slump. AGON? Slump. It happens. Then it ends. 
     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from andrewmitch. Show andrewmitch's posts

    Re: Gonzalez

    :)

    what was I?  1 letter off?  that was a confusing few years w/ both of the MILLERS on the team......both had career years in 2003, Billy also did very good in 2004........
     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from dannycater. Show dannycater's posts

    Re: Gonzalez

    Bill Mueller's 2003 was about as good as it gets
     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from andrewmitch. Show andrewmitch's posts

    Re: Gonzalez

    In Response to Re: Gonzalez:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Gonzalez : uh, see in MLB, there's this thing called, um, what's it called, um...a slump. Yeah, that's it. That's the ticket. Albert Pujols? Slump. AGON? Slump. It happens. Then it ends. 
    Posted by dannycater[/QUOTE]

    not all slumps end and some slumps may show some bounce-back but also the "new normal".......

    is Jenks still in a slump?  Keith Foulke?
     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from dannycater. Show dannycater's posts

    Re: Gonzalez

    And I tell you, he was awesome and I take nothing away from Dave Roberts in saying this--I think Mueller has never gotten his just due. Roberts, it seems, gets all the fame and Mueller was the one who had to knock him in...against a pitcher who is considered the greatest closer of alltime.
     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from dannycater. Show dannycater's posts

    Re: Gonzalez

    Big time hitters usually get out of slumps. For instance, Adam Dunn had an entire season slump.
     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from expitch. Show expitch's posts

    Re: Gonzalez

    Space, I have a hunch ( just a hunch ) that the elves in Theo's numbers works charted virtually everything Gonzalez hit at Petco and on the road over the last couple of years, then stacked those charts up against Fenway and other AL parks, and ( voila ) projected at least 40 HR's for him. We know that Theo gave a dumb contract to Crawford, but no way ( my guess ) does he make that trade and offer that extension to Gonzalez without happily expecting big power numbers -- including many RBI is which one of them was indisputably provided by his own bat, starting with a swing at the plate. 
    Those expected numbers may yet come, but they didn't, for one reason or another, and so far they don't seem to be coming this year. He's not even spanking the ball.  That is all we know for certain. That could turn around in a hurry. Let's hope it does.
     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from dannycater. Show dannycater's posts

    Re: Gonzalez

    mitch, Jason Bay may be your answer to that earlier post. the slump that never ended.
     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from andrewmitch. Show andrewmitch's posts

    Re: Gonzalez

    In Response to Re: Gonzalez:
    [QUOTE]Space, I have a hunch ( just a hunch ) that the elves in Theo's numbers works charted virtually everything Gonzalez hit at Petco and on the road over the last couple of years, then stacked those charts up against Fenway and other AL parks, and ( voila ) projected at least 40 HR's for him. We know that Theo gave a dumb contract to Crawford, but no way ( my guess ) does he make that trade and offer that extension to Gonzalez without happily expecting big power numbers -- including many RBI is which one of them was indisputably provided by his own bat, starting with a swing at the plate.  Those expected numbers may yet come, but they didn't, for one reason or another, and so far they don't seem to be coming this year. He's not even spanking the ball.  That is all we know for certain. That could turn around in a hurry. Let's hope it does.
    Posted by expitch[/QUOTE]

    Not to mention that Theo gave the man an extension a YEAR sooner than he needed to AFTER LEARNING THE MAN NEEDED SHOULDER SURGERY

    Remind you of anyone else (JB?)
     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from andrewmitch. Show andrewmitch's posts

    Re: Gonzalez

    In Response to Re: Gonzalez:
    [QUOTE]mitch, Jason Bay may be your answer to that earlier post. the slump that never ended.
    Posted by dannycater[/QUOTE]

    there you go, i was in a rush but there are many

    Lackey has a new normal now w/ the Sox

    Chone Figgins

    Etc
     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from andrewmitch. Show andrewmitch's posts

    Re: Gonzalez

    In Response to Re: Gonzalez:
    [QUOTE]And I tell you, he was awesome and I take nothing away from Dave Roberts in saying this--I think Mueller has never gotten his just due. Roberts, it seems, gets all the fame and Mueller was the one who had to knock him in...against a pitcher who is considered the greatest closer of alltime.
    Posted by dannycater[/QUOTE]

    Not me, I am a huge Billy Mueller fan - I am sure you've seen me talk about him in at least several of my 13 thousand posts.........I liked him when he was w/ the Giants and was pumped when they signed him
     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from andrewmitch. Show andrewmitch's posts

    Re: Gonzalez

    10th Player Winner in 2003 and he won the Harley.........
     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from dannycater. Show dannycater's posts

    Re: Gonzalez

    I look back at Lynn, and then I wonder about Bay. It's like he got to Boston and he was a kid in the candy store. He could drive balls over the Monster and his swing was suited almost to a perfect match to the ballpark. Then he went back to the NL. It's pretty scary his downfall.
     

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