GONZO is slugging at.374 with.705 OPS, should MIDDLEBROOKS be hitting 4th?

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from COMMUNIST-CONTRARIAN. Show COMMUNIST-CONTRARIAN's posts

    GONZO is slugging at.374 with.705 OPS, should MIDDLEBROOKS be hitting 4th?

    i dont care about his batting average. this is PUTRID and has been trending this way for a while. yep he may hit the wall but its just a long single. he should never hit 3rd or even 4th ever again. middlebrooks should be hitting cleanup with papi at 3rd, pedy at 2nd. put any monkey at lead off for all i care. heck make sweeney the lead off hitter.

    middlebrooks is now like a nomar when he came up. no way you take him out barring injury. win or lose, its time to see what the kid can do at the major league level.. period. put him in the OF if you must, put this kid should be out there EVERY freakin game.. period! he could play LF. i rather see him develop at the mlb level esp since he's proven he can hit at the minors level. enough of that. the kid is slugging at an eye-popping .952 with 1.361 OPS. aviles is at .454 slugging, pedy's at .513, papi's at an expected .685, even darnell mcdonald is at .474 slugging.

    in fact, a-gon has the LOWEST slugging average of ANYONE on the team not named nick punto or byrd! think about that for a sec? we are stuck with 6 more years with this untradeable guy. anyone would rather have gonzo over tex at this time? hopefully he can turn it around but this is just more reminder of how putrid theo ended his tenure. jd drew is his best big money signing in comparison, that says a lot. lackey, dice, gonzo, crawford... one has to try really hard to be this horrible. all said though, i too would have gone after gonzo if i didnt have YOUK. just too unfortunate.

    dice k is the one move i would have done frankly as is from both a business (china market) and baseball sense. it was fine as an isolated gamble. the rest were just a big market team going after LUXURIES! the gawds have fought back!
     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from royf19. Show royf19's posts

    Re: GONZO is slugging at.374 with.705 OPS, should MIDDLEBROOKS be hitting 4th?

    anyone would rather have gonzo over tex at this time?

    Yup, I want A-Gon over Tex. 

    Texieria: 4 HR, 16 RBI, 222 BA, ..271 OBP, 380 SLG, .651 OPS

    Gonazlez: 2 HR, 16 RBI, .270 BA, .331 OBP, .374 SLG, .705 OPS
     
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  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from seannybboi. Show seannybboi's posts

    Re: GONZO is slugging at.374 with.705 OPS, should MIDDLEBROOKS be hitting 4th?

    Is this a joke? Gonzo should never hit 3rd or 4th again? I can't believe what I'm reading here these days....

    Yes WM is off to the best start he can possibly have but come on..... seriously... WM eventually will be our middle of the lineup guy but saying Gonzo should never hit 3rd or 4th again? I'll have to get back to you on this at the end of May and see you still support your theory..
     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from maxbialystock. Show maxbialystock's posts

    Re: GONZO is slugging at.374 with.705 OPS, should MIDDLEBROOKS be hitting 4th?

    Batting order ain't everything.  Middlebrooks can hit, but probably doesn't need the pressure of batting cleanup.  AGon is still a very good hitter with a long track record.  Middlebrooks has all of 4 games. 
     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from S5. Show S5's posts

    Re: GONZO is slugging at.374 with.705 OPS, should MIDDLEBROOKS be hitting 4th?

    My memo to Gonzo:

    You're going down in the order today, maybe to 6th or 7th.  We'd love to have you hitting 3rd or 4th and when you start to hit again you'll be back there.  We believe you will be in a month or so, but in the meantime you're hurting the team by batting where you are.  (We'd like to move you down even further but, believe it or not, there are still a couple of guys on this team who are more pathetic at the plate than you are.)

    And BTW, you could help yourself some if you'd actually RUN to 1st base on those IF grounders, even if it's 3/4 speed, rather than just the fast jog you've been using lately.

    Thanks for your time!

    BV
     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from sindarin-erebor. Show sindarin-erebor's posts

    Re: GONZO is slugging at.374 with.705 OPS, should MIDDLEBROOKS be hitting 4th?

    Gonzo going forward should be no higher in the order than 5th. Middlebrooks at clean up with his speed makes sense since Gonzo hits tons of double play balls. Take the pressure of Gonzo, he can't handle it whatsovever.
     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from wideright. Show wideright's posts

    Re: GONZO is slugging at.374 with.705 OPS, should MIDDLEBROOKS be hitting 4th?

    4 games in. Really?
     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: GONZO is slugging at.374 with.705 OPS, should MIDDLEBROOKS be hitting 4th?

    vs RHPs:
    1) Sweeney
    2) Pedey
    3) Papi
    4) AGon
    5) Middlebrooks
    6) Aviles
    7) Salty
    8) Ross
    9) Byrd

    vs LHPs:
    1) Aviles
    2) Pedey
    3) Ortiz
    4) Middlebrooks
    5) Ross
    6) AGon (until he hits)
    7) Sweeney
    8) Shoppach
    9) Byrd
     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from LloydDobler. Show LloydDobler's posts

    Re: GONZO is slugging at.374 with.705 OPS, should MIDDLEBROOKS be hitting 4th?

    In Response to Re: GONZO is slugging at.374 with.705 OPS, should MIDDLEBROOKS be hitting 4th?:
    [QUOTE]4 games in. Really?
    Posted by wideright[/QUOTE]
    +1
    (Beat me to it).
     
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  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from harv53. Show harv53's posts

    Re: GONZO is slugging at.374 with.705 OPS, should MIDDLEBROOKS be hitting 4th?

    I'm Amazed by the level of stupidity on this forum. Throwing Gonzalez under the bus because he's not blasting home runs or hitting .330. Get a grip people!

    The fact of the matter is that Agon should be moved back to the 3 spot with Ortiz 4th, Ross 5th, Middlebrooks 6th, Shoppach 7th, Sweeney 8th, and Byrd 9th.
     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from rsinsider. Show rsinsider's posts

    Re: GONZO is slugging at.374 with.705 OPS, should MIDDLEBROOKS be hitting 4th?

    Slow down guys ......AG is a very good hitter who goes on tears for weeks at a time ....... This is almost to silly to comment on !!!!!!
     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from S5. Show S5's posts

    Re: GONZO is slugging at.374 with.705 OPS, should MIDDLEBROOKS be hitting 4th?

    In Response to Re: GONZO is slugging at.374 with.705 OPS, should MIDDLEBROOKS be hitting 4th?:
    [QUOTE]I'm Amazed by the level of stupidity on this forum. Throwing Gonzalez under the bus because he's not blasting home runs or hitting .330. Get a grip people! The fact of the matter is that Agon should be moved back to the 3 spot with Ortiz 4th, Ross 5th, Middlebrooks 6th, Shoppach 7th, Sweeney 8th, and Byrd 9th.
    Posted by harv53[/QUOTE]

    I, too, am Amazed at the level of stupidity on this forum.  Throwing Buchholtz under the bus because he's not striking out 7-8 people a game or having an ERA of under 3.00.  Get a grip people!

    The fact of the matter is that Buch shold be placed in the #3 spot in the rotation with Bard #4 and Dubront #5.

    Sheesh. 

    This team isn't winning and it's because some of the people who were counted on to do well aren't doing well.  The fact that they CAN do well or have done well in the past is kinda moot right now. 

    I'm all for giving Gonzo time to work through his problems but not if he's going to be a black hole (read:  automatic out) in the top five.  Move him down.  When he starts to hit - and I believe he will - bring him back up.

    Why is that such a difficult concept? 
     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from devildavid. Show devildavid's posts

    Re: GONZO is slugging at.374 with.705 OPS, should MIDDLEBROOKS be hitting 4th?

    If Middlebrooks can continue to produce at his current clip it would be worth a try to move him up in the order and Gonzo down. Gonzo is not hitting like a slugger at the present time and so has earned a move down in the order. Games are played today, not yesterday. Play your best hand until things change. If Gonzo is truly a great hitter that will not change if he is dropped in the order. Eventually he should earn his way into a sluggers spot in the batting order if that is what he truly is.
     
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  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from 111SoxFan111. Show 111SoxFan111's posts

    Re: GONZO is slugging at.374 with.705 OPS, should MIDDLEBROOKS be hitting 4th?

    In Response to Re: GONZO is slugging at.374 with.705 OPS, should MIDDLEBROOKS be hitting 4th?:
    [QUOTE]Gonzo going forward should be no higher in the order than 5th. Middlebrooks at clean up with his speed makes sense since Gonzo hits tons of double play balls. Take the pressure of Gonzo, he can't handle it whatsovever.
    Posted by sindarin-erebor[/QUOTE]

    On Pedroia, Gonzalez and perceptions

    Posted by Peter Abraham, Globe Staff May 8, 2012 12:45 PM

    KANSAS CITY — Here's a little lunch time quiz for you.

    Red Sox Player A: Is 13 of 33 (.394) with runners in scoring position this season with a .425 in-base percentage and .606 slugging percentage. He has 15 RBIs this season.

    He hit .337/.441/.483 with RISP in 2011.

    Red Sox Player B: Is 9 of 29 (.310) with runners in scoring position this season with a .375 on-base percentage and a .446 slugging percentage. He has 11 RBIs this season.

    He hit .316/.408/.471 with RISP in 2011.

    Which is one is scrappy, passionate, ever-so-clutch Dustin Pedroia and which one is Adrian Gonzalez, the emotionless supposed choker who can't handle Boston?

    Gonzalez is Player A and Pedroia is Player B.

     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from 111SoxFan111. Show 111SoxFan111's posts

    Re: GONZO is slugging at.374 with.705 OPS, should MIDDLEBROOKS be hitting 4th?

    In Response to GONZO is slugging at.374 with.705 OPS, should MIDDLEBROOKS be hitting 4th?:
    [QUOTE]
    [AGon] should never hit 3rd or even 4th ever again

    dice k is the one move i would have done frankly as is from both a business (china market) and baseball sense. it was fine as an isolated gamble. the rest were just a big market team going after LUXURIES! the gawds have fought back!
    Posted by COMMUNIST-CONTRARIAN[/QUOTE]

    I am pretty sure part of my brain melted while reading this.   
     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from S5. Show S5's posts

    Re: GONZO is slugging at.374 with.705 OPS, should MIDDLEBROOKS be hitting 4th?

    In Response to Re: GONZO is slugging at.374 with.705 OPS, should MIDDLEBROOKS be hitting 4th?:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: GONZO is slugging at.374 with.705 OPS, should MIDDLEBROOKS be hitting 4th? : On Pedroia, Gonzalez and perceptions Permalink | Comments ( 11 ) Posted by Peter Abraham, Globe Staff   May 8, 2012 12:45 PM By Peter Abraham, Globe Staff KANSAS CITY — Here's a little lunch time quiz for you. Red Sox Player A:  Is 13 of 33 (.394) with runners in scoring position this season with a .425 in-base percentage and .606 slugging percentage. He has 15 RBIs this season. He hit .337/.441/.483 with RISP in 2011. Red Sox Player B:  Is 9 of 29 (.310) with runners in scoring position this season with a .375 on-base percentage and a .446 slugging percentage. He has 11 RBIs this season. He hit .316/.408/.471 with RISP in 2011. Which is one is scrappy, passionate, ever-so-clutch Dustin Pedroia and which one is Adrian Gonzalez, the emotionless supposed choker who can't handle Boston? Gonzalez is Player A and Pedroia is Player B.
    Posted by 111SoxFan111[/QUOTE]

    This proves that perceptions are interesting things. Sometimes a perception is accurate while sometimes it's not - but it IS a perception. 

    When I see a player (Player A, let's call him) digging his way down the line in an effort to beat out a grounder to short and I see that same player drop an F-bomb when he's out I perceive that that player CARES. When I see that same player with a look of disgust on his face when he strikes out and he pounds his bat into his hand on the way back to the dugout I perceive that he's a hard-nosed player who's frustrated with himself and wants to do better.

    When I see a player (Player B?) go into a fast trot to first base, resigned to the fact that he's going to be out on a grounder or a fly ball and there's nothing he can do about it I perceive that this guy doesn't care.  He's just resigned to being out.  When I see that same player walk back to the dugout with no expression on his face following a strike-out I again perceive that he doesn't care.

    I may be wrong in one or both of those perceptions, but those are the things that perceptions are built on, and when both of those guys go 0-8, guess which one I'm going to still like.

    My point is that Gonzo may have earned the lack of 'slack' he's being cut here by his lack of hustle.  If he'd at least try to make it look like he's trying harder and that he cares I could probably be more forgiving in times when he's struggling.   
     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from freediro. Show freediro's posts

    Re: GONZO is slugging at.374 with.705 OPS, should MIDDLEBROOKS be hitting 4th?

    Perceptions are reality, so call like you see it but the numbers don't lie. A-Gon is in a slump no doubt about it, but he is a great hitter who isn't going anywhere. Did no one notice how excited he got for Middlebrooks' HRs? Probably not since that will go against everything you think about him. You're also the same people who would get on him if he did hustle down to 1B and blew out a hammy knowing full well he wouldnt have beat it out. Say what you want but A-Gon is one if not our best overall hitters.
     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from harv53. Show harv53's posts

    Re: GONZO is slugging at.374 with.705 OPS, should MIDDLEBROOKS be hitting 4th?

    In Response to Re: GONZO is slugging at.374 with.705 OPS, should MIDDLEBROOKS be hitting 4th?:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: GONZO is slugging at.374 with.705 OPS, should MIDDLEBROOKS be hitting 4th? : I, too, am Amazed at the level of stupidity on this forum.  Throwing Buchholtz under the bus because he's not striking out 7-8 people a game or having an ERA of under 3.00.  Get a grip people! The fact of the matter is that Buch shold be placed in the #3 spot in the rotation with Bard #4 and Dubront #5. Sheesh.  This team isn't winning and it's because some of the people who were counted on to do well aren't doing well.  The fact that they CAN do well or have done well in the past is kinda moot right now.  I'm all for giving Gonzo time to work through his problems but not if he's going to be a black hole (read:  automatic out) in the top five.  Move him down.  When he starts to hit - and I believe he will - bring him back up. Why is that such a difficult concept? 
    Posted by S5[/QUOTE]

    Gonzalez has paid his dues and deserves more respect than that. He has been a #3 hitter most of his career and we know what he is capable of doing. He is not hurting us, the pitching is.
    Moving a guy like Agon out of his comfort zone, will do and has done, more harm than good IMO.
    This is not Youk or Aviles, this is Adrian Gonzalez, one of the premier players in the game.

    The guy could just need a rest. When is last time he had a day off?
     
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  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from S5. Show S5's posts

    Re: GONZO is slugging at.374 with.705 OPS, should MIDDLEBROOKS be hitting 4th?

    In Response to Re: GONZO is slugging at.374 with.705 OPS, should MIDDLEBROOKS be hitting 4th?:
    [QUOTE]Perceptions are reality, so call like you see it but the numbers don't lie. A-Gon is in a slump no doubt about it, but he is a great hitter who isn't going anywhere. Did no one notice how excited he got for Middlebrooks' HRs? Probably not since that will go against everything you think about him. You're also the same people who would get on him if he did hustle down to 1B and blew out a hammy knowing full well he wouldnt have beat it out. Say what you want but A-Gon is one if not our best overall hitters.
    Posted by freediro[/QUOTE]

    That is absolutely wrong.  I will NEVER criticize a player for too much hustle.  And I'm not even asking him to dig it out, flat out, risking injury every time - nobody does that.  Heck, I didn't when I played (at a MUCH lower level!).  But I DO want for him to at least make it look like he's running hard, like 3/4 speed running. 

    And we agree, AGon is one of our best hitters who's in a horrible, prolonged slump which he WILL come out of. Good hitters don't just stop hitting.
     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from S5. Show S5's posts

    Re: GONZO is slugging at.374 with.705 OPS, should MIDDLEBROOKS be hitting 4th?

    In Response to Re: GONZO is slugging at.374 with.705 OPS, should MIDDLEBROOKS be hitting 4th?:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: GONZO is slugging at.374 with.705 OPS, should MIDDLEBROOKS be hitting 4th? : Gonzalez has paid his dues and deserves more respect than that. He has been a #3 hitter most of his career and we know what he is capable of doing. He is not hurting us, the pitching is. Moving a guy like Agon out of his comfort zone, will do and has done, more harm than good IMO. This is not Youk or Aviles, this is Adrian Gonzalez, one of the premier players in the game. The guy could just need a rest. When is last time he had a day off?
    Posted by harv53[/QUOTE]

    To say that he's not hurting us is a little...wrong.  This guy went 0-2 in two AB with RISP on Friday in an extra inning game and then went 0-8 in another extra inning game on Sunday. There's just no way that's not hurting us!

    The "comfort zone" argument is like the one we had last year regarding Crawford, only in reverse. Some said wait until he hits, then move him up, while others said that if you put him in the top three in the order he'll hit.

    I'll say the same thing about the Agon situation that I said about putting Crawford in the top three - that's a great idea, as long as it works! Right now having Agon there isn't working. 

    Players know when they're hurting the team.  It's not insulting to him to move him down until he hits. He's a big boy and would recognize that. If he doesn't recognize it then his ego needs a reality check. 

    Don't get me wrong, he's a great player and I'm rooting for him all the way.  But on a bigger scale I'm also advocating doing everything they can to help this team win.
     
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