Gordon Edes takes Daisuke Matsuzaka to task for his disappointing tenure with the Red Sox. Do you agree?

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from BurritoT. Show BurritoT's posts

    Re: Gordon Edes takes Daisuke Matsuzaka to task for his disappointing tenure with the Red Sox. Do you agree?

    He needs to pitch better - and at this point - the Red Sox should let him dictate his own regiment.  Nothing left to loose.
     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from SoxLose. Show SoxLose's posts

    Re: Gordon Edes takes Daisuke Matsuzaka to task for his disappointing tenure with the Red Sox. Do you agree?

    In Response to Re: Gordon Edes takes Daisuke Matsuzaka to task for his disappointing tenure with the Red Sox. Do you agree?:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Gordon Edes takes Daisuke Matsuzaka to task for his disappointing tenure with the Red Sox. Do you agree? : Re Asian pitchers being usually flash-in-the-pans....is that true?  Not challenging, asking.  In most cases I think they had to play 10 years in Japan before being free to move to MLB - though the posting system has changed that - so many were in their 30s before arriving. Matsuzaka, Nomo, Irabu, Hasegawa, Okajima, Kuroda, Saito.....are they the elite group?  Overall a pretty solid book of work. Is Oki's steady decline from age 31-34 due to his flashing pan or his turning odometer?  Or maybe a bit of both?
    Posted by SonicsMonksLyresVicars[/QUOTE]

    You definitely have a good point. Speaking only from the results we've seen, setting age aside, these guys seem to come over here and do fairly well at first (even impressive at times). However- whether it's aging or hitters catching on- they seem to inevitably go south in a rather short period of time. At least that's been my observation. I'm not sure the reason why but I think pitching in Japan is an entirely different animal. Nomo aside, what other japanese pitcher has demonstrated longevity?
     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from zzzzxxxx. Show zzzzxxxx's posts

    Re: Gordon Edes takes Daisuke Matsuzaka to task for his disappointing tenure with the Red Sox. Do you agree?

    Dice K has been a disappointment, but so haven't many other players.  It's the way it goes in all sports.  Should anyone take him to task?  Of course not.  Does anyone think he deliberately plans to have one horrible inning in just about every game he pitches?  I have a feeling he'll be living back in Japan before too long.
     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from massillon8. Show massillon8's posts

    Re: Gordon Edes takes Daisuke Matsuzaka to task for his disappointing tenure with the Red Sox. Do you agree?

    Edes is funny, He blames Dice K for being what he is a Japanese pitcher, instead of being what Edes wants him to be a $100 Million Pitcher.  Sorry Gordo I told you a few years ago in Cleveland, I say it again now.   if you go out and give
    give $100 million dollars to a pitcher who has never pitched in the Majors, EVER and you are supposed to be smart, pulse on the trigger.  You don't realize that Japanese pitchers have never ever worked out....ever Long Term and you offer a $51 Million bid to sign a guy, then offer 6 years $52 Million on top of that, your dumb.  And Edes your dumb for writing a P... O.. S.. article how its Dice K's fault but somehow Theo is absolved.  Other funny thoughts,, Gyro Ball, Tracking John Henry's plane, Outbidding the Yankees., Scouting Dice K as the new Ultimate #1, Marketing opportunitys abound.....joke, joke, joke. 
     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from royf19. Show royf19's posts

    Re: Gordon Edes takes Daisuke Matsuzaka to task for his disappointing tenure with the Red Sox. Do you agree?

    In Response to Re: Gordon Edes takes Daisuke Matsuzaka to task for his disappointing tenure with the Red Sox. Do you agree?:
    [QUOTE]. If you supported DiceK you wouldn't make the comments you have made. Like most Boston fans, you pretend to support Japanese players and then love bigoted articels from "give me access" hacks like Edes.
    Posted by BaseballGM[/QUOTE]

    OK softy, what comments have I made show that I don't support and haven't supported DiceK? I was one of the few who defended him for playing for his country in the World Baseball Classic.

    You're utterly pathetic the way you try to twist posts to fit your warped mind. 

    You can't simply disagree with someone's opinion. Edes writes a column you disagree with and he's a bigot. I make a point that DiceK, if he hasn't, should have in the four years he's been here made an effort to learn the language so he can fit it with his teammates, something I expect an American player who plays in Japan do do, and I'm a racist? You have to resort to name-calling because you know your views can't stand on their own. How sad? What a miserable little life you must lead -- a sad, pathetic excuse for a human being. 
     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Gordon Edes takes Daisuke Matsuzaka to task for his disappointing tenure with the Red Sox. Do you agree?

    It's Ok for softy to bash Wake for being ol, but if anyone dares bash Dice-K (worse numbers since 2009), he calls them racist.

    It was the same with BHall last year. Her's a guy I was all for since day one an praised him all year, but when I tried to show that Jed had about equal "pop" as BHall, he called me a racist.
     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from BaseballGM. Show BaseballGM's posts

    Re: Gordon Edes takes Daisuke Matsuzaka to task for his disappointing tenure with the Red Sox. Do you agree?

    And Edes your dumb for writing a P... O.. S.. article how its Dice K's fault but somehow Theo is absolved

    Of course, Theo is always absolved. It's DiceK's fault for not "learning the language". How about Theo and Tito learning a little Japanese and understanding that they signed a player who learned the game the Japenese league way. But, no, DiceK's got to be taken to task by some loser beat writer who simply wants a lot of access.
     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from stormcrow7878. Show stormcrow7878's posts

    Re: Gordon Edes takes Daisuke Matsuzaka to task for his disappointing tenure with the Red Sox. Do you agree?

    Wow, the Dice-K & Lackey comparisons are a little off. First off, whatever you think of Lackey, he is reliably consistent. Since 2003 he has thrown over 200 innings 5 times, and one of the years he did not he threw 198.1.  Dice-K has cleared that hurdle just once(his rookie year) and has not come within 30 innings of that total since (and if you dont think innings pitched is an important stat for a starting pitcher you are nuts) These are 2 pitchers with totally diffrent problems. Lackey is a flyball pitcher, in a park where you DO NOT want to be a flyball pitcher. despite that, he will not kill your bullpen..give you 6-8 innings of 3-5 run ball and keep you in the game. Dice-K on the other hand is usually at the 100 pitch mark between the late 4th to early 6th inning. Not only does he put a ton of runners on base (whatever happened to the unhittable "gyroball"?) but he is out of most games early, putting a ton of pressure on the bullpen. Dice K is just another in a long line of unproven guys who get hyped and overpaid. (Hideo Nomo was 10x the pitcher that Dice K is) . I would keep LAckey and try as hard as I could to unload DIce-K. That being said, a lot of good points to the contrary, and you guys have a great debate going.
     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from BaseballGM. Show BaseballGM's posts

    Re: Gordon Edes takes Daisuke Matsuzaka to task for his disappointing tenure with the Red Sox. Do you agree?

    No one is going to take Lackey unless a lot of money comes with him. Total innings is overrated. It's the quality of the work, not the quantity.
     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from BostonTrollSpanker. Show BostonTrollSpanker's posts

    Re: Gordon Edes takes Daisuke Matsuzaka to task for his disappointing tenure with the Red Sox. Do you agree?

    So according to the BasementGM, if you don't like Dice K's maddening pitching style and massive ERA, you're a racist. 

    Dice K made some meaningful contributions to this team in the past, but he looks pretty close to done to me. He will always be remembered as a mediocre signing given the $50 million bounty. Otherwise his contract was not that terrible given the Sox have a ring to show for it. 

    The BasementGM has a hard time on an analytically equally playing field, which is strange when it's so simple: right now, Lackey, Dice K and Wake all stink. 

    Of the three, Lackey has the best chance to come back and justify some part of his contract going forward. We'll see.


     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from harness. Show harness's posts

    Re: Gordon Edes takes Daisuke Matsuzaka to task for his disappointing tenure with the Red Sox. Do you agree?

    Notice it was Softy who brought up the race card. Another ambulance-chasing tactic to divert attention from the last two years+.

    This clown thinks he's a race martyr by using bigotry as an excuse.

    Yeah, where was all this "bigotry" against Dice in 2008?
    Where was it from 2007-9 with Oki?
    Where was it w/Papi - when he was breaking all sorts of records?

    Roy
    , you understated the fact this b@stard Softlaw is a pathetic human being. He should be exiled. I wonder if Burrito has room in his Cambodian hut.

    I do like your point about alluding to "live & learn".
    In the future, contractual language should include training technique, adopting M.L. pitching approach, etc.


    To Katz (reply to post tab not functional): You seem to be losing sight of the fact Dice's "injuries"  have mostly been traced to shoulder  fatigue. He was never willing to make the adjustments to M.L. regime. The competition in the states is tougher. M.L. Hitters don't go for all the junk the hitters in Japan were fooled by. The baseballs are larger. Pitcher's don't have the luxury of hurling once a week.
    He wasn't willing to train effectively to allow for these adjustments.

    His 2008 numbers were a bit of a fluke. He was  burdensome to the pen, even in his best years. You say he gets an unfair shake from the press due to the language barrier. Was this so in 2007-8?
    Was it so with Oki from 2007-9?
    I think you play the press thing a bit too much.
     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from BaseballGM. Show BaseballGM's posts

    Re: Gordon Edes takes Daisuke Matsuzaka to task for his disappointing tenure with the Red Sox. Do you agree?

    Of the three, Lackey has the best chance to come back and justify some part of his contract going forward. We'll see.

    Wakefield has no chance to come back and be more than a laughing stock that he is. Lackey is a bust who will be no better than a marginal #4 starter.

    All one has to do is look at the abuse DiceK and Oki have taken since going to bigot beantown. The issue isn't that DiceK hasn't met the hype put out by ownership, it's that fat slobs like Lackey and Beckett get a pass because they are good guys who speak the language while DiceK and Oki shun the local media and refust to learn english so Varitek can teach them how to wipe their back sides.

    Another poster recently made one of the most astute observations on this board. He said that ownership and management takes the so called "good guys" and pays them to spit in dugout, but pulls a much earlier plug on the "bad guys" and uses tools like Edes to bash them for being "bad guys" who refuse to do what they are told. He is 100% correct.
     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from stormcrow7878. Show stormcrow7878's posts

    Re: Gordon Edes takes Daisuke Matsuzaka to task for his disappointing tenure with the Red Sox. Do you agree?

    Total innings are NOT overrated. Starters (especially 3,4, & 5 starters) who put a lot of innings in, help keep a bullpen fresh, and the fact that they pitch a lot of innings usually means they are keeping their team in the game. Look at the staffs of recent champs and you will find at least 2 guys with 200+ innings and usually 4 guys with 150+. Those are important innings. If you are going to compare Lackey & Dice-K... I will take Lackey, who is NOT going to kill my bullpen, and usually pitch into the mid 6th or 7th at worst. Dice-K on the other hand is a bullpen killer who is exhausted in the early 5th, and will force Tito (One of baseballs top 3 managers) to use several pitchers to cover for him.
     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from harness. Show harness's posts

    Re: Gordon Edes takes Daisuke Matsuzaka to task for his disappointing tenure with the Red Sox. Do you agree?

    In Response to Re: Gordon Edes takes Daisuke Matsuzaka to task for his disappointing tenure with the Red Sox. Do you agree?:
    [QUOTE]Total innings are NOT overrated. Starters (especially 3,4, & 5 starters) who put a lot of innings in, help keep a bullpen fresh, and the fact that they pitch a lot of innings usually means they are keeping their team in the game. Look at the staffs of recent champs and you will find at least 2 guys with 200+ innings and usually 4 guys with 150+. Those are important innings. If you are going to compare Lackey & Dice-K... I will take Lackey, who is NOT going to kill my bullpen, and usually pitch into the mid 6th or 7th at worst. Dice-K on the other hand is a bullpen killer who is exhausted in the early 5th, and will force Tito (One of baseballs top 3 managers) to use several pitchers to cover for him.
    Posted by stormcrow7878[/QUOTE]


    Some clowns here don't have the baseball acumen to comprehend this.
     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from BaseballGM. Show BaseballGM's posts

    Re: Gordon Edes takes Daisuke Matsuzaka to task for his disappointing tenure with the Red Sox. Do you agree?

    usually means they are keeping their team in the game

    Lackey wasn't keeping the team in many games, pal. Beckett admitted he stunk, last year, the fat slob Lackey pretends he didn't. Big difference. 

    Wakefield is an example of how total innings are meaningless. Let's remember how lousy Wakefield was last year, Gordon. Let's remember how lousy Beckett was, last year, Gordon. Lets remember how lousy Slackey was last year, Gordon.

    It's hard to admit to having animosty towards Asians, and a double standard toward Asians. It's a couple of weeks into the season and Edes is "taking DiceK to task", and he has a parade of bigots with him. If Gordon would that fat slob Lackey to task, the guy who looks like a lot of Red Sox fans, he would have some crediblity. He has zero.  
     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from harness. Show harness's posts

    Re: Gordon Edes takes Daisuke Matsuzaka to task for his disappointing tenure with the Red Sox. Do you agree?

    Lackey didn't keep his team in many games last year?
    Define "many".
     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from BaseballGM. Show BaseballGM's posts

    Re: Gordon Edes takes Daisuke Matsuzaka to task for his disappointing tenure with the Red Sox. Do you agree?

    Define "innings eater".
     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from harness. Show harness's posts

    Re: Gordon Edes takes Daisuke Matsuzaka to task for his disappointing tenure with the Red Sox. Do you agree?

    In this day and age, an innings eater is 7 frames, give or take an out.

    Now, please define "many" in the context of how you worded it.

     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from BaseballGM. Show BaseballGM's posts

    Re: Gordon Edes takes Daisuke Matsuzaka to task for his disappointing tenure with the Red Sox. Do you agree?

    "Many" is a large number. Lackey is zero, this year. Last year, he did not have a large number of games he kept his team "in the game".

    Is an innings eater a guy who gives up 6 runs in "6 frames"? Is it a guy with a WHIP near 1.5?
     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from harness. Show harness's posts

    Re: Gordon Edes takes Daisuke Matsuzaka to task for his disappointing tenure with the Red Sox. Do you agree?

    {"Many" is a large number}.
    Thanks for such an educational response. 1,000,000 is also a large number.



    In fact,   12 can be a large number.

    When you said Lackey didn't keep the team in many games, what pct. are you referring to? 50% of his games? 90% of his games?
     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from BaseballGM. Show BaseballGM's posts

    Re: Gordon Edes takes Daisuke Matsuzaka to task for his disappointing tenure with the Red Sox. Do you agree?

    No, 12 is a small number.

    You didn't answer my question.

     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from harness. Show harness's posts

    Re: Gordon Edes takes Daisuke Matsuzaka to task for his disappointing tenure with the Red Sox. Do you agree?

    You didn't answer mine. What % constitutes "many"?
    He started 33 games. How many of those games did you think he give his  team a chance to win?
     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from stormcrow7878. Show stormcrow7878's posts

    Re: Gordon Edes takes Daisuke Matsuzaka to task for his disappointing tenure with the Red Sox. Do you agree?

    A guy who puts up 200+ innings every year is obviously an innings eater, and obviously kept his team in many games... or he would have gotten the hook, and burned the bullpen.

    You can't compare Lackey and Beckett last year. Beckett was hurt, had one of the worst ERA's of any starter in the AL, and failed from beginning to end. Lackey (please try very hard to understand this... made 30+ starts, gave up about 4.5 runs per 9 innings [with the BoSox offense, that kept them in A LOT of games] and pitched over 200 innings. Lackey has never been an "ace", he is probably overpaid, but he did pretty much exactly what he has always done last year. His value in 2010 FAR SURPASSED Beckett's.
     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from jackyldo. Show jackyldo's posts

    Re: Gordon Edes takes Daisuke Matsuzaka to task for his disappointing tenure with the Red Sox. Do you agree?

    AS Bobby V   said   he was a 5 pitch pitcher in Japan and  now he's a 2 pitch pitcher here.  If his location is not spot on he's hittable..
    He's done what the Sox asked as have most  Japanese pitchers that have come here.. Money was nice but few have been dominant beyond a season or two..

    He's   got 2 seasons left at $10M a year.  get used to seeing him  because unless someone thinks the can make a run in the NL he has limited trade value.
     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from harness. Show harness's posts

    Re: Gordon Edes takes Daisuke Matsuzaka to task for his disappointing tenure with the Red Sox. Do you agree?

    Still wasting for UR answer. How many of Lackey's 33 starts did he keep his team in the game?
     

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