Grienke

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from Mchampion. Show Mchampion's posts

    Grienke

    Why is no one talking about getting this guy. Grienke is the only pitcher to go after.  He is the best out there and we need an Ace.  Once our rotation gets corrected then we can start to think about getting the batting line up to speed.  Yes it will cost alot, but at least the guy is young and can pitch and I would think it would be our only big contract signing.  

    I know he had issues early in his career dealing with depression, I have not heard anything negative recently and he has been on a few different teams.

    Grienke, Lester, Buch, Lackey,Doubrant.  All the sudden the Sox rotation looks credible and the already has very good bullpen depth. 

    If the Sox don't get an Ace there is no reason to sign a pitcher, we already have a bunch of middle rotation guys we don't need another one.

     

     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from boborielly224. Show boborielly224's posts

    Re: Grienke

    In response to Mchampion's comment:

    Why is no one talking about getting this guy. Grienke is the only pitcher to go after.  He is the best out there and we need an Ace.  Once our rotation gets corrected then we can start to think about getting the batting line up to speed.  Yes it will cost alot, but at least the guy is young and can pitch and I would think it would be our only big contract signing.  

    I know he had issues early in his career dealing with depression, I have not heard anything negative recently and he has been on a few different teams.

    Grienke, Lester, Buch, Lackey,Doubrant.  All the sudden the Sox rotation looks credible and the already has very good bullpen depth. 

    If the Sox don't get an Ace there is no reason to sign a pitcher, we already have a bunch of middle rotation guys we don't need another one.

     



    I not sure where you been, but gienke is big topic on this forum. I been waiting for the sox to sign a pitcher no signing yet. Grienke I think slip under Cherington's radar. I am speculating that Masterson or Haren will be the sox next signing.

     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from Mchampion. Show Mchampion's posts

    Re: Grienke

    In response to boborielly224's comment:

    In response to Mchampion's comment:

    Why is no one talking about getting this guy. Grienke is the only pitcher to go after.  He is the best out there and we need an Ace.  Once our rotation gets corrected then we can start to think about getting the batting line up to speed.  Yes it will cost alot, but at least the guy is young and can pitch and I would think it would be our only big contract signing.  

    I know he had issues early in his career dealing with depression, I have not heard anything negative recently and he has been on a few different teams.

    Grienke, Lester, Buch, Lackey,Doubrant.  All the sudden the Sox rotation looks credible and the already has very good bullpen depth. 

    If the Sox don't get an Ace there is no reason to sign a pitcher, we already have a bunch of middle rotation guys we don't need another one.

     



    I not sure where you been, but gienke is big topic on this forum. I been waiting for the sox to sign a pitcher no signing yet. Grienke I think slip under Cherington's radar. I am speculating that Masterson or Haren will be the sox next signing.



    I just got back on after a while but I hope you are wrong Boborielly.  I don't think we need another 3 or 4 .  We need an ace to get this team back on track.  I think after that things will start to fall into place.

     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from TitleTown11. Show TitleTown11's posts

    Re: Grienke

    Masterson cannot be signed...he is not a free agent. 

    Greinke will also not be signed because he fits in Boston as well as Crawford did. Do the Sox need an ace? Yes. Is Greinke an ace? One could make the arguement. However, given his social aanxiety issues (yes, I know it is unfair to continually bring up the issue against him - but... I am) I don't think he is cut out for the AL East and the Boston media.

    Oh, not to mention the 6 or 7 year deal for 140-160Million his agent will ask for.

    If Guthrie wants 3/$34M, then it only reassures me that free agency should be avoided. Time to draft, develop, and only supplement with FA.

     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from georom4. Show georom4's posts

    Re: Grienke

    In response to TitleTown11's comment:

    Masterson cannot be signed...he is not a free agent. 

    Greinke will also not be signed because he fits in Boston as well as Crawford did. Do the Sox need an ace? Yes. Is Greinke an ace? One could make the arguement. However, given his social aanxiety issues (yes, I know it is unfair to continually bring up the issue against him - but... I am) I don't think he is cut out for the AL East and the Boston media.

    Oh, not to mention the 6 or 7 year deal for 140-160Million his agent will ask for.

    If Guthrie wants 3/$34M, then it only reassures me that free agency should be avoided. Time to draft, develop, and only supplement with FA.




    Grienke has done pretty well in MLB....i think that includes Boston/Fenway Park...ROY and CY YOUNG...he is by far the best pitcher available and in his prime. Furthermore he will give Beckett and Lester some inspiration and competition (as opposed to Beckett's slacking and bad attitude).  We have the money, sign him....Pedro and Manny worked out ok, right?

     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from Mchampion. Show Mchampion's posts

    Re: Grienke

    In response to TitleTown11's comment:

    Masterson cannot be signed...he is not a free agent. 

    Greinke will also not be signed because he fits in Boston as well as Crawford did. Do the Sox need an ace? Yes. Is Greinke an ace? One could make the arguement. However, given his social aanxiety issues (yes, I know it is unfair to continually bring up the issue against him - but... I am) I don't think he is cut out for the AL East and the Boston media.

    Oh, not to mention the 6 or 7 year deal for 140-160Million his agent will ask for.

    If Guthrie wants 3/$34M, then it only reassures me that free agency should be avoided. Time to draft, develop, and only supplement with FA.



    I am not SURE he is cut out for Boston either but he seems to be doing fine for all the teams he has played for lately.  I don't mind 1 big deal when its an ace you need.  The kid is 28.  His prime years are coming up. The point is we go no where without pitching.  Once we have that we can look at all the other holes.  

     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from southpaw777. Show southpaw777's posts

    Re: Grienke

    Hes not worth 20M per for the next 7 years.

    Do a search for an interview he did in Milwaukee. Its very telling what kind of person he is and how he doesnt like to really be social with anybody, especially media. Hes just NOT a good fit for this team/city.

    hes better served in a lower profile place. He understands this and so does Ben...The best available doesnt always mean the best choice.

     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from Beantowne. Show Beantowne's posts

    Re: Grienke

    In response to southpaw777's comment:

    Hes not worth 20M per for the next 7 years.

    Do a search for an interview he did in Milwaukee. Its very telling what kind of person he is and how he doesnt like to really be social with anybody, especially media. Hes just NOT a good fit for this team/city.

    hes better served in a lower profile place. He understands this and so does Ben...The best available doesnt always mean the best choice.



    With 20-20 hindsight. The above about sums up in a nutshell. The signings of both Crawford and Lackey by our now departed leader Epstein...

    As for Greinke, we could do worse. My money's on him ending up in St. Louis. A city that has an established hall of fame pitching coach with a very supportive fan base. With a team/player friendly media...

     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from Ice-Cream. Show Ice-Cream's posts

    Re: Grienke

    Greinke is not worth the years and money.

    There are other very good pitchers out there the Red Sox can get for less years and money. 

     

     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from parhunter55. Show parhunter55's posts

    Re: Grienke

    There is a lot of assuming by a lot of people, about Grienke and his anti-social behavior not fitting in the Boston market, whether it be due to anxiety or depression.  I have suffered both.  Neither stopped me from performing music, BTW.  In my experience, the depression and resulting anxiety led to a sense of helplessness, and at one point led to almost a complete inability to be in open, crowded spaces.  Now, some years later, I happily walk down NY streets during the holiday season.  These things can be controlled and overcome.  And even at my lowest I never stopped wanting to play music.  That was one of the few things that alleviated my depression--doing something I loved and felt I was good at.

    Not to say Grienke would be a great fit for Boston, and the media market that dominates the local sports.  But, the Sox had spies tailing Crawford and concluded he would fit fine in the Boston market.  WRONG!  It is possible they are wrong to assume Grienke would not.  With Farrell here to protect him and watch out for him, he might do just fine...just don't expect him to be anything like Pedroia or Ortiz when it comes to giving interviews and quotes, or hosting golf outings, etc.  Nor would he need to be, we already have Pedroia and Ortiz.

    I agree with those that think he is the best starter available and that the Sox need a real top of the rotation starter, not another #4 or #5 guy.  If Grienke can be signed at reasonable cost and length, the Sox would be dumb not to explore it, at the very least, and complete a deal if he is willing (after all, only he really knows what his anxiety/depression issues really are and how they affect his decision making process--if he relishes performing in high stress situations, and all indications are that he does, he probably does not care where).

     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from Ice-Cream. Show Ice-Cream's posts

    Re: Grienke

     

    Hello parhunter55  :)

    I admire and respect you overcoming adversity to continue to do what you love which is music.  :)

    The Angels want Grienke so much, I doubt the Red Sox can even offer a similar contract.

    Therefore, I believe the Red Sox can still get top pitching in the free agent market or through trades with a team like Oakland (e.g. Brett Anderson).

     

     

     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from EnchiladaT. Show EnchiladaT's posts

    Re: Grienke

    Sign him now, ten years and 30 million per. 

     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from Joebreidey. Show Joebreidey's posts

    Re: Grienke

    There is a lot of assuming by a lot of people, about Grienke and his anti-social behavior not fitting in the Boston market, whether it be due to anxiety or depression.  I have suffered both. 

    Fro various reasons, I'm not a crowd person either.  It doesn't bother me, much, but I know I'm good with 2-3-4 people at a time, and that's okay.

    The reason why I mention is this is because, after I've gone throught the cycle of management, I've come to realize and accept that I don't want to be in charge of anything any more.  I'd much prefer to be locked in an office, do some fairly complex work, and then hand it off to someone that likes to attend the meetings.  It doesn't pay as well, but for me, it is much more enjoyable.

    I suspect it could be the same for Greinke.

     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from Soxdog67. Show Soxdog67's posts

    Re: Grienke

    My two cents about Greinke...

    First, if Greinke would fail playing in Boston it would be a result of the intense media and fan attention in Boston that would impact his game. Rather than focus on the game, he gets caught up in the hoopla which adversely impacts his game.

    Second, a guy like Schilling and even Pedro knew how to handle the scrutiny of playing in Boston and actually were driven by it. Is Greinke this type of more of the Carl Crawford type?

    If that question is out there, paying him $30million for 10 years, or any type of realistic long-term commitment would not make sense and take them right back to where they were before...undisiplined.

     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from Joebreidey. Show Joebreidey's posts

    Re: Grienke

    1-Over the past 3 years, Greinke's ERA is 3.83.  Certainly good, but certainly not ace.  That ranks #50 over 3 years.

    2-He is 19-2 with ~ 3.05 at home over the past two years, and 12-9 with ~ 4.30 on the road.  That hints that he might not like being out of his comfort zone.

    3-In his one year in the playoffs, he had an ERA of 6.48, hinting at issues with pressure.

    4-On the road against the other ALE teams, he is a career 1-11.

     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from jasko2248. Show jasko2248's posts

    Re: Grienke

    In response to Joebreidey's comment:

    1-Over the past 3 years, Greinke's ERA is 3.83.  Certainly good, but certainly not ace.  That ranks #50 over 3 years.

    2-He is 19-2 with ~ 3.05 at home over the past two years, and 12-9 with ~ 4.30 on the road.  That hints that he might not like being out of his comfort zone.

    3-In his one year in the playoffs, he had an ERA of 6.48, hinting at issues with pressure.

    4-On the road against the other ALE teams, he is a career 1-11.



    Onre of the first things Ben Cherington said when asked about the biggesst difference between him and Theo was that he puts a lot more emphasis on a players "makeup," which is evident in his acquistions over the past year.  I can't see any situation where the Sox give a guy like Greinke anything in the neighborhood of 140 million dollars, and I don't see how a guy like Greinke, who "isn't comfortable around people," would ever consider signing with Boston, when there are teams that are willing to pay him big money in much more relaxed areas.

     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from parhunter55. Show parhunter55's posts

    Re: Grienke

    It is the feeling of not being in control that sets the anxiety in motion.  On the mound, where Grienke is in control, he should be perfectly fine.  However, the 1-11 vs. ALE on the road is a big red flag.

    And I am a little uncomfortable with the idea that Grienke does not fit with Ben's ideas about "makeup."  Grienke's makeup is fine.  There have been no indications that he is a clubhouse cancer, for instance.  Crawford's "makeup" was checked out thoroughly.  These guys are not shrinks, or even amateur psychologists.  They make a living evaluating baseball talent.  What do they know of "makeup?"  If they had a real good line on that they never would have signed Lackey or Crawford, or extended Beckett.

     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from jasko2248. Show jasko2248's posts

    Re: Grienke

    In response to parhunter55's comment:

    It is the feeling of not being in control that sets the anxiety in motion.  On the mound, where Grienke is in control, he should be perfectly fine.  However, the 1-11 vs. ALE on the road is a big red flag.

    And I am a little uncomfortable with the idea that Grienke does not fit with Ben's ideas about "makeup."  Grienke's makeup is fine.  There have been no indications that he is a clubhouse cancer, for instance.  Crawford's "makeup" was checked out thoroughly.  These guys are not shrinks, or even amateur psychologists.  They make a living evaluating baseball talent.  What do they know of "makeup?"  If they had a real good line on that they never would have signed Lackey or Crawford, or extended Beckett.



    Are you serious?  Did you read the interview he gave in Milwaukee?  You're not going to include a guy's personality in his "makeup?!" I'm not saying he's a bad guy, I'm just saying there are certainly questions as to whether he would be comfortable in this city, and you don't give 140 million to a guy like that.  It doesn't matter, because it's not happening.  They have no interest in each other...

     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from parhunter55. Show parhunter55's posts

    Re: Grienke

    Are you serious?  What do you know of his personality? Are you best buds?

    And where in my post did I say you you don't take a guy's personality into account in determining his "makeup."  I am just suggesting, rightly so, that the Sox have been horrible at assessing "makeup" and finding guys who blend well and fit together.  Theo hit magic back in 2004, but most of his recent signings were awful fits, at least if you believe the collapse was more about clubhouse chemistry than talent (and I do). 

    And when did I suggest giving Grienke 140 million?  Look at my first post.

    My point is, and will remain (and I am quite serious), that people here are assessing a guy that they do not know, based on a presumption of mental illness they do not understand, without giving any credit to the idea that maybe Grienke is the one who would best be fit to make the decision as to whether he would/could play in Boston, rather than assume and never even pursue the idea.

     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from parhunter55. Show parhunter55's posts

    Re: Grienke

    btw, I have not read the Milwaukee interview as a search for it led to a "webpage not found 404" message.  Have you actually read it?  I have read other people's takes on it, they are not hard to find.  The best of these (from Jeff Sullivan) actually makes my point:

    People who aren't close friends or relatives are closer to being complete mysteries than they are to being understood. We don't know strangers, even if we know a few things about them, and this obviously carries over to athletes and professional baseball players, whom we know for their skills.

     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from jasko2248. Show jasko2248's posts

    Re: Grienke

    In response to parhunter55's comment:

    Are you serious?  What do you know of his personality? Are you best buds?

    And where in my post did I say you you don't take a guy's personality into account in determining his "makeup."  I am just suggesting, rightly so, that the Sox have been horrible at assessing "makeup" and finding guys who blend well and fit together.  Theo hit magic back in 2004, but most of his recent signings were awful fits, at least if you believe the collapse was more about clubhouse chemistry than talent (and I do). 

    And when did I suggest giving Grienke 140 million?  Look at my first post.

    My point is, and will remain (and I am quite serious), that people here are assessing a guy that they do not know, based on a presumption of mental illness they do not understand, without giving any credit to the idea that maybe Grienke is the one who would best be fit to make the decision as to whether he would/could play in Boston, rather than assume and never even pursue the idea.

    You posted, "Greinke's makeup is fine." It's far from "fine." In his own words, "he isn't comfortable around people and autograph seekers and media types annoy him."  That was playing in KC and Milwaukee!  Do you really think there is any chance at all, that a GM who puts an emphasis on "makeup" is going to consider giving a "Crawford deal" to a guy like Greinke, especially, as you mentioned, after their recent failures in assessing "fits" on this team?

    No, you didn't say pay him "140 million," but that's the neighborhood you need be in if you want to be in on him and there is no way the Sox go there for a guy like that, and again, why would Greinke ever consider Boston, when he'll get that money in a much more relaxed environments in LA with both teams and Texas? 

    Again, signing Greinke has been beat to death on this board, despite the fact that there is no chance of it happening...

     

     

     

     

     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from Joebreidey. Show Joebreidey's posts

    Re: Grienke

    Grienke's makeup is fine.

    1-How do you define 'makeup'?

    2-How do you know it is fine?

    The reason I ask is that, for the fans that want to sign him, they always say he is fine, or he won't have issues on Boston.  But they have no way of telling that.  There is no evidence to support it.  And what evidence we do have, indicates that he does not feel overly comfortable.

    It's like the fans have a blind belief that he will suddenly be able to pitchi in the spot light.  I know the sample sizes are small, but is there a reason why someone would like to pay him $20M+ and have him face the NYY at YS, or in a playoff game?

     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from Joebreidey. Show Joebreidey's posts

    Re: Grienke

    My point is, and will remain (and I am quite serious), that people here are assessing a guy that they do not know, based on a presumption of mental illness they do not understand, without giving any credit to the idea that maybe Grienke is the one who would best be fit to make the decision as to whether he would/could play in Boston, rather than assume and never even pursue the idea.

    It's an opinion board, so we are offering opinions.

    The difference here is that, when I suggest that he would be a risk, I support it with numbers.  Those in favor of signing him are so far supporting it with nothing more than hope.

    Even past the social anxiety risk, no one in support of signing him has even addressed the issue of him have the #50 ERA over the past 3 years.

    All they know is that he won the CY once several years back.

    # of AS appearances -1-

    # of times even receiving a single CY vote -1-

    No single issue or stat is all-powerful, but there is seriously -0- reason to make this guy the highest-paid RH pitcher in history.  I could give you 10 reasons why we shouldn't, and not a single reason why we should.

     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from mef429. Show mef429's posts

    Re: Grienke

    In response to Joebreidey's comment:

    My point is, and will remain (and I am quite serious), that people here are assessing a guy that they do not know, based on a presumption of mental illness they do not understand, without giving any credit to the idea that maybe Grienke is the one who would best be fit to make the decision as to whether he would/could play in Boston, rather than assume and never even pursue the idea.

    It's an opinion board, so we are offering opinions.

    The difference here is that, when I suggest that he would be a risk, I support it with numbers.  Those in favor of signing him are so far supporting it with nothing more than hope.

    Even past the social anxiety risk, no one in support of signing him has even addressed the issue of him have the #50 ERA over the past 3 years.

    All they know is that he won the CY once several years back.

    # of AS appearances -1-

    # of times even receiving a single CY vote -1-

    No single issue or stat is all-powerful, but there is seriously -0- reason to make this guy the highest-paid RH pitcher in history.  I could give you 10 reasons why we shouldn't, and not a single reason why we should.




    well put JB. while i think Grienke could help us, that hefty pricetag is a total turnoff. to leave out his mental issues, he just simply isn't good enough to to warrant a GIANT contract (especially considering we just got out from under some monsterous ones...) The one selling point for him is that he is very young and certainly has the potential to be great but a 140 Million leap of faith is not what we need. throwing money at a problem won't fix it

     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from Joebreidey. Show Joebreidey's posts

    Re: Grienke

    well put JB. while i think Grienke could help us, that hefty pricetag is a total turnoff. to leave out his mental issues, he just simply isn't good enough to to warrant a GIANT contract (especially considering we just got out from under some monsterous ones...) The one selling point for him is that he is very young and certainly has the potential to be great but a 140 Million leap of faith is not what we need. throwing money at a problem won't fix it

    There has to be a risk discount on every player.  This is not too different than Hamilton.  There is an injury risk and relapse risk.  So you deduct for both those items.

     
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