Grienke

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from kimsaysthis. Show kimsaysthis's posts

    Re: Grienke

    I would never want Grienke here for his sake. He needs to be on a lower profile team. A team that's good, but doesn't have every single thing they do played out in the media. Come to think of it, I wish the Red Sox were a team like that.

     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from Mchampion. Show Mchampion's posts

    Re: Grienke

    In response to kimsaysthis' comment:
    [QUOTE]

    I would never want Grienke here for his sake. He needs to be on a lower profile team. A team that's good, but doesn't have every single thing they do played out in the media. Come to think of it, I wish the Red Sox were a team like that.

    [/QUOTE]

    Very good point kim. Its to bad there is not a way to protect or deflect all the media attention away from the players here in Boston.  It is over the top.  Its great to follow the team but the media here is extreme and not in a good way.  A guy like Grienke should be able to come to Boston and play but he is a cause for concern because he has some special issues that can for the most part be handled in other cities.  Disappointing to say the least.

     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from ADG. Show ADG's posts

    Re: Grienke

    In response to Mchampion's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Why is no one talking about getting this guy. Grienke is the only pitcher to go after.  He is the best out there and we need an Ace.  Once our rotation gets corrected then we can start to think about getting the batting line up to speed.  Yes it will cost alot, but at least the guy is young and can pitch and I would think it would be our only big contract signing.  

    I know he had issues early in his career dealing with depression, I have not heard anything negative recently and he has been on a few different teams.

    Grienke, Lester, Buch, Lackey,Doubrant.  All the sudden the Sox rotation looks credible and the already has very good bullpen depth. 

    If the Sox don't get an Ace there is no reason to sign a pitcher, we already have a bunch of middle rotation guys we don't need another one.

     

    [/QUOTE]
    He can't pitch in big markets.

     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from mef429. Show mef429's posts

    Re: Grienke

    In response to Mchampion's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to kimsaysthis' comment:
    [QUOTE]

    I would never want Grienke here for his sake. He needs to be on a lower profile team. A team that's good, but doesn't have every single thing they do played out in the media. Come to think of it, I wish the Red Sox were a team like that.

    [/QUOTE]

    Very good point kim. Its to bad there is not a way to protect or deflect all the media attention away from the players here in Boston.  It is over the top.  Its great to follow the team but the media here is extreme and not in a good way.  A guy like Grienke should be able to come to Boston and play but he is a cause for concern because he has some special issues that can for the most part be handled in other cities.  Disappointing to say the least.

    [/QUOTE]


    i just think it would be better if the people in the media weren't such "the sky is falling" types. everything that happens they over-react exponentially, take statements out of context and persue non-stop until public opinion of that issue is in the toilet. look at what they did to beckett, T-franc, chickengate (the most absurd of them) and everything else. Its very rare someone leaves boston without their name being dragged through the mud..

     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from Flapjack07. Show Flapjack07's posts

    Re: Grienke

    Joebreidy has pretty much owned this thread. All the anxiety issues aside, I wish more people would take a longer look at Greinke's career stats (which aren't terribly far off of what John Lackey's were before signing in Boston) and realize that he's really not the sure-thing ace they seem to think he is.

    Not that he isn't a good pitcher...but Carl Crawford was a very good player in Tampa Bay, just not worth 7 yrs & $140 million. This team has gotten into enough trouble in recent years by overpaying players who just happened to be the best on the FA market at the time, whether or not they were actually worth the money; hopefully, after jettisoning a couple such contracts, Ben C. isn't in a hurry to do the same thing again.

     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from Drewski5. Show Drewski5's posts

    Re: Grienke

    Luckily, the Sox have a lot more resources available when it comes to assessing Greinke's fit than we do.  Greinke's arm is absolutely elite.  He has top 5 stuff.  The difficulty in acquiring a pitcher of Greinke's caliber means the sox should (and probably already have) discussed him as a possibility.  You have to at least consider him an option (even at 7 yrs / 140) because a pitcher of greinke's stature may not be acquirable for the next 5-10 yrs.

    That being said, the sox should interview him, look at his medical records (including mental health), and do their due diligence.  They need to consider him, but they also need to do their homework.  If they conclude that the documented issues are real and have a legitimate chance of resurfacing, then he may not be worth the enormous price tag.  But they shouldnt just assume that because he has past issues, he isnt a fit.  If the mental stuff is behind him , he is worth every penny of 7 yrs / 140 million.  People citing the 3.8 ERA havent seen him pitch enough.  he's not a 3.8 ERA pitcher.  Stats can lie.  He is a legitimate ace.

     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from mef429. Show mef429's posts

    Re: Grienke

    In response to Drewski5's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Luckily, the Sox have a lot more resources available when it comes to assessing Greinke's fit than we do.  Greinke's arm is absolutely elite.  He has top 5 stuff.  The difficulty in acquiring a pitcher of Greinke's caliber means the sox should (and probably already have) discussed him as a possibility.  You have to at least consider him an option (even at 7 yrs / 140) because a pitcher of greinke's stature may not be acquirable for the next 5-10 yrs.

    That being said, the sox should interview him, look at his medical records (including mental health), and do their due diligence.  They need to consider him, but they also need to do their homework.  If they conclude that the documented issues are real and have a legitimate chance of resurfacing, then he may not be worth the enormous price tag.  But they shouldnt just assume that because he has past issues, he isnt a fit.  If the mental stuff is behind him , he is worth every penny of 7 yrs / 140 million.  People citing the 3.8 ERA havent seen him pitch enough.  he's not a 3.8 ERA pitcher.  Stats can lie.  He is a legitimate ace.

    [/QUOTE]

    idk about legitimate ace. numbers never lie. especially in such a large sample size.

    if you said he COULD BE an ace (potential-wise) i would agree with you

     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from Drewski5. Show Drewski5's posts

    Re: Grienke

    In response to mef429's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to Drewski5's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Luckily, the Sox have a lot more resources available when it comes to assessing Greinke's fit than we do.  Greinke's arm is absolutely elite.  He has top 5 stuff.  The difficulty in acquiring a pitcher of Greinke's caliber means the sox should (and probably already have) discussed him as a possibility.  You have to at least consider him an option (even at 7 yrs / 140) because a pitcher of greinke's stature may not be acquirable for the next 5-10 yrs.

    That being said, the sox should interview him, look at his medical records (including mental health), and do their due diligence.  They need to consider him, but they also need to do their homework.  If they conclude that the documented issues are real and have a legitimate chance of resurfacing, then he may not be worth the enormous price tag.  But they shouldnt just assume that because he has past issues, he isnt a fit.  If the mental stuff is behind him , he is worth every penny of 7 yrs / 140 million.  People citing the 3.8 ERA havent seen him pitch enough.  he's not a 3.8 ERA pitcher.  Stats can lie.  He is a legitimate ace.

    [/QUOTE]

    idk about legitimate ace. numbers never lie. especially in such a large sample size.

    if you said he COULD BE an ace (potential-wise) i would agree with you

    [/QUOTE]

    Numbers , without context, can be misleading.  In 2011, he had a 3.8 ERA.  But he had a 10.5 K/9 adn a 2.4 BB/9.

    Having a 10.5 K/9 and a 2.4 BB/9 means that the 3.8 ERA was the function of a lot of bad luck.  ERA is not a be all end all stat.  His other stats show that the 3.8 ERA is the number out of place.

     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from mef429. Show mef429's posts

    Re: Grienke

    In response to Drewski5's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to mef429's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to Drewski5's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Luckily, the Sox have a lot more resources available when it comes to assessing Greinke's fit than we do.  Greinke's arm is absolutely elite.  He has top 5 stuff.  The difficulty in acquiring a pitcher of Greinke's caliber means the sox should (and probably already have) discussed him as a possibility.  You have to at least consider him an option (even at 7 yrs / 140) because a pitcher of greinke's stature may not be acquirable for the next 5-10 yrs.

    That being said, the sox should interview him, look at his medical records (including mental health), and do their due diligence.  They need to consider him, but they also need to do their homework.  If they conclude that the documented issues are real and have a legitimate chance of resurfacing, then he may not be worth the enormous price tag.  But they shouldnt just assume that because he has past issues, he isnt a fit.  If the mental stuff is behind him , he is worth every penny of 7 yrs / 140 million.  People citing the 3.8 ERA havent seen him pitch enough.  he's not a 3.8 ERA pitcher.  Stats can lie.  He is a legitimate ace.

    [/QUOTE]

    idk about legitimate ace. numbers never lie. especially in such a large sample size.

    if you said he COULD BE an ace (potential-wise) i would agree with you

    [/QUOTE]

    Numbers , without context, can be misleading.  In 2011, he had a 3.8 ERA.  But he had a 10.5 K/9 adn a 2.4 BB/9.

    Having a 10.5 K/9 and a 2.4 BB/9 means that the 3.8 ERA was the function of a lot of bad luck.  ERA is not a be all end all stat.  His other stats show that the 3.8 ERA is the number out of place.

    [/QUOTE]


    i'm not a fan of using ERA in single season sample sizes, i've done my homework on grienke. and found that he COULD be an ace as he is young and has his best years ahead of him. but if I am going to commit 100+ million to a guy its going to be for a sure thing. not the possibility of one.

     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from jasko2248. Show jasko2248's posts

    Re: Grienke

    In response to Drewski5's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Luckily, the Sox have a lot more resources available when it comes to assessing Greinke's fit than we do.  Greinke's arm is absolutely elite.  He has top 5 stuff.  The difficulty in acquiring a pitcher of Greinke's caliber means the sox should (and probably already have) discussed him as a possibility.  You have to at least consider him an option (even at 7 yrs / 140) because a pitcher of greinke's stature may not be acquirable for the next 5-10 yrs.

    That being said, the sox should interview him, look at his medical records (including mental health), and do their due diligence.  They need to consider him, but they also need to do their homework.  If they conclude that the documented issues are real and have a legitimate chance of resurfacing, then he may not be worth the enormous price tag.  But they shouldnt just assume that because he has past issues, he isnt a fit.  If the mental stuff is behind him , he is worth every penny of 7 yrs / 140 million.  People citing the 3.8 ERA havent seen him pitch enough.  he's not a 3.8 ERA pitcher.  Stats can lie.  He is a legitimate ace.

    [/QUOTE]

    Drewski,

    Read the interview with Greinke below and you will see how there is no way the Sox would ever consider giving this guy 100 plus million dollars, and maybe more importantly, I don't see how this guy would "ever" consider Boston when he'll get paid somewhere else. 


    http://www.jsonline.com/blogs/sports/116683129.html

     
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  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from Drewski5. Show Drewski5's posts

    Re: Grienke

    In response to mef429's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to Drewski5's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to mef429's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to Drewski5's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Luckily, the Sox have a lot more resources available when it comes to assessing Greinke's fit than we do.  Greinke's arm is absolutely elite.  He has top 5 stuff.  The difficulty in acquiring a pitcher of Greinke's caliber means the sox should (and probably already have) discussed him as a possibility.  You have to at least consider him an option (even at 7 yrs / 140) because a pitcher of greinke's stature may not be acquirable for the next 5-10 yrs.

    That being said, the sox should interview him, look at his medical records (including mental health), and do their due diligence.  They need to consider him, but they also need to do their homework.  If they conclude that the documented issues are real and have a legitimate chance of resurfacing, then he may not be worth the enormous price tag.  But they shouldnt just assume that because he has past issues, he isnt a fit.  If the mental stuff is behind him , he is worth every penny of 7 yrs / 140 million.  People citing the 3.8 ERA havent seen him pitch enough.  he's not a 3.8 ERA pitcher.  Stats can lie.  He is a legitimate ace.

    [/QUOTE]

    idk about legitimate ace. numbers never lie. especially in such a large sample size.

    if you said he COULD BE an ace (potential-wise) i would agree with you

    [/QUOTE]

    Numbers , without context, can be misleading.  In 2011, he had a 3.8 ERA.  But he had a 10.5 K/9 adn a 2.4 BB/9.

    Having a 10.5 K/9 and a 2.4 BB/9 means that the 3.8 ERA was the function of a lot of bad luck.  ERA is not a be all end all stat.  His other stats show that the 3.8 ERA is the number out of place.

    [/QUOTE]


    i'm not a fan of using ERA in single season sample sizes, i've done my homework on grienke. and found that he COULD be an ace as he is young and has his best years ahead of him. but if I am going to commit 100+ million to a guy its going to be for a sure thing. not the possibility of one.

    [/QUOTE]

    Fair point.

     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from S5. Show S5's posts

    Re: Grienke

     

    [/QUOTE]

    Drewski,

    Read the interview with Greinke below and you will see how there is no way the Sox would ever consider giving this guy 100 plus million dollars, and maybe more importantly, I don't see how this guy would "ever" consider Boston when he'll get paid somewhere else. 


    http://www.jsonline.com/blogs/sports/116683129.html

    [/QUOTE]

    What a great interview from a very candid, honest guy.  He appears to know exactly where he is, where he came from, and where he wants to go. 

    I think he may have spoken for most of MLB when he talked about reporters, "spending eight minutes buttering me up and then two minutes asking me a stupid question", and what a  distraction that is.  The difference in Boston would be that the reporters would spend 15 minutes buttering him up and then five more minutes asking him a really, really stupid question. 

    Here's a tip for the reporters:  Unless you have a meaningful question to ask, leave these guys alone and let them concentrate on their game.  Most of us don't care if a player buttons his shirt from the top down or from the bottom up so quit asking.  And by extention, stop telling us what that 'means'. 

    I'd like to have Grinke's skills here in Boston but I think he has more awareness of himself than to come here, which is probably a good thing for him. 

     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from Ice-Cream. Show Ice-Cream's posts

    Re: Grienke

     

    Let another team like the Angels overpay for Grienke.  

     

     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from GoUconn13. Show GoUconn13's posts

    Re: Grienke

    Why is no one talking about him, that is because everyone knew he wanted a 5 plus years for over 100 mm dollars contract!!!

     

    Do you really want to try to sign that guy for a big fat joke contract!!

    Come on, think!!

     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from dgalehouse. Show dgalehouse's posts

    Re: Grienke

    Players like Grienke and Hamilton are going to be very expensive. And , they come with significant risks. But they are the best free agents out there. I think the Sox are gun shy because of recent free agent blunders. So they are going to be cautious. That is understandable. The problem is that it is not easy to contend with a bunch of second-tier free agents. Just hoping to get lucky. Trades are a difficult route to improvement. You can easily get the worst of a trade.  Thinking that our young minor league prospects are all going to blossom into stars is delusional.  Sometimes you just have to roll the dice and spend the bucks. Or , are we turning into a small market franchise ?

     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from jasko2248. Show jasko2248's posts

    Re: Grienke

    In response to dgalehouse's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Players like Grienke and Hamilton are going to be very expensive. And , they come with significant risks. But they are the best free agents out there. I think the Sox are gun shy because of recent free agent blunders. So they are going to be cautious. That is understandable. The problem is that it is not easy to contend with a bunch of second-tier free agents. Just hoping to get lucky. Trades are a difficult route to improvement. You can easily get the worst of a trade.  Thinking that our young minor league prospects are all going to blossom into stars is delusional.  Sometimes you just have to roll the dice and spend the bucks. Or , are we turning into a small market franchise ?

    [/QUOTE]

    Trying to build through free agency is never a good idea...you need a balance, while focusing on the present as well as the future.  It's not realistic to think the Sox are going to all of a sudden be a small market team.  If they see value, they'll spend, but Zack Greinke is not worth it, even if he considered playing here, which is very doubtful.  If Hamilton wanted 3/80, the Sox would likely be all over him, but it's bad business to consider 6/150.  The Sox were given a gift by the Dodgers, they arent going to put themselves back in the same bad position they were in before the trade.

     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from dgalehouse. Show dgalehouse's posts

    Re: Grienke

    In response to jasko2248's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to dgalehouse's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Players like Grienke and Hamilton are going to be very expensive. And , they come with significant risks. But they are the best free agents out there. I think the Sox are gun shy because of recent free agent blunders. So they are going to be cautious. That is understandable. The problem is that it is not easy to contend with a bunch of second-tier free agents. Just hoping to get lucky. Trades are a difficult route to improvement. You can easily get the worst of a trade.  Thinking that our young minor league prospects are all going to blossom into stars is delusional.  Sometimes you just have to roll the dice and spend the bucks. Or , are we turning into a small market franchise ?

    [/QUOTE]

    Trying to build through free agency is never a good idea...you need a balance, while focusing on the present as well as the future.  It's not realistic to think the Sox are going to all of a sudden be a small market team.  If they see value, they'll spend, but Zack Greinke is not worth it, even if he considered playing here, which is very doubtful.  If Hamilton wanted 3/80, the Sox would likely be all over him, but it's bad business to consider 6/150.  The Sox were given a gift by the Dodgers, they arent going to put themselves back in the same bad position they were in before the trade.

    [/QUOTE]


    I understand what you are saying.  But what happens is , you let a top closer like Papelbon go. Then trade a promising young outfielder to fill the closer's role. You saved money , but the whole thing backfires. Papelbon does his thing with the Phils. Reddick blossoms into a key player for Oakland. Bailey flops big time with us.   We free up payroll with the deal with L.A.  But we still won't spend for quality. So , you wind up with the Aaron Cooks of the world.  Somebody will pay Grienke and Hamilton what they are seeking.  We will wind up with the second rate guys again.  As for as putting ourselves back in the same position as before ; how do you like the position we are in now ?  We are a last place ballclub.  Free agency is the quickest way to improve.  So, should we sign another Cook and bide our time until an unproven kid like Barnes becomes our next big thing ?  The chances are that Barnes will never be close to the pitcher that Grienke is. And Bradley Jr. will never be anywhere near the player that Hamilton is.   Let's hope that the Fenway faithful will continue to support mediocrity while the ownership and front office look for " value " and patiently wait for our young prospects to blossom. 

     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from parhunter55. Show parhunter55's posts

    Re: Grienke

    Tow things:

    1) As dgalehouse points out, you free up payroll.  For what purpose... to maximize return on your investment or to reinvest in your team?  Reinvesting in your team can be done several ways, but one way is to sign the better FAs and stop the dumpster diving (which has not brought any championships since 2004), and

    2) You use the FA signings to strengthen the areas where your farm system are weak and not delivering, ie.  Starting pitching and 1B.  And maybe an OF or two to tide you over until Bradley and Brentz are ready.

    So, as I stated earlier, I believe that if Grienke thinks he could handle Boston, AND he would sign a reasonable contract for reasonable length (4 years at 75 million with a possible 5th year option, or 4 years at 60 with a lot of incentives to earn more), BC should explore it.  He is the best starter arm available.  Not trying at all because of preconceived notions is as foolish as signing Crawford after extensive research and still blowing the call.

     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from ThefourBs. Show ThefourBs's posts

    Re: Grienke

    In response to dgalehouse's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to jasko2248's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to dgalehouse's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Players like Grienke and Hamilton are going to be very expensive. And , they come with significant risks. But they are the best free agents out there. I think the Sox are gun shy because of recent free agent blunders. So they are going to be cautious. That is understandable. The problem is that it is not easy to contend with a bunch of second-tier free agents. Just hoping to get lucky. Trades are a difficult route to improvement. You can easily get the worst of a trade.  Thinking that our young minor league prospects are all going to blossom into stars is delusional.  Sometimes you just have to roll the dice and spend the bucks. Or , are we turning into a small market franchise ?

    [/QUOTE]

    Trying to build through free agency is never a good idea...you need a balance, while focusing on the present as well as the future.  It's not realistic to think the Sox are going to all of a sudden be a small market team.  If they see value, they'll spend, but Zack Greinke is not worth it, even if he considered playing here, which is very doubtful.  If Hamilton wanted 3/80, the Sox would likely be all over him, but it's bad business to consider 6/150.  The Sox were given a gift by the Dodgers, they arent going to put themselves back in the same bad position they were in before the trade.

    [/QUOTE]


    I understand what you are saying.  But what happens is , you let a top closer like Papelbon go. Then trade a promising young outfielder to fill the closer's role. You saved money , but the whole thing backfires. Papelbon does his thing with the Phils. Reddick blossoms into a key player for Oakland. Bailey flops big time with us.   We free up payroll with the deal with L.A.  But we still won't spend for quality. So , you wind up with the Aaron Cooks of the world.  Somebody will pay Grienke and Hamilton what they are seeking.  We will wind up with the second rate guys again.  As for as putting ourselves back in the same position as before ; how do you like the position we are in now ?  We are a last place ballclub.  Free agency is the quickest way to improve.  So, should we sign another Cook and bide our time until an unproven kid like Barnes becomes our next big thing ?  The chances are that Barnes will never be close to the pitcher that Grienke is. And Bradley Jr. will never be anywhere near the player that Hamilton is.   Let's hope that the Fenway faithful will continue to support mediocrity while the ownership and front office look for " value " and patiently wait for our young prospects to blossom. 

    [/QUOTE]

    Evidently, Paplebon wasn't enough to keep the Phillies from being mediocre this year.

    A 50+ million contract for Papebon wouldn't have saved the Sox season either.

    You probably would've been kiling the Sox FO for signing him, if he had 4 blown saves, like he did in Plilly.

    Bradley probably won't be the player Hamilton is.

    The problem is, Hamilton is often not the player he should be.

    Hamilton hit just .252 with 18 homers and 55 RBIs and struck out in nearly a third of his at-bats after July 1, including 20 strikeouts in his last 46 at-bats.

    He was a big reason the the Rangers lost the lead in the AL West.


    If we just HAVE to have Greinke and Hamilton, what would you pay for them?

    Hamilton wants a seven year contract.

     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from S5. Show S5's posts

    Re: Grienke

    In response to dgalehouse's comment:
    [QUOTE]




    I understand what you are saying.  But what happens is , you let a top closer like Papelbon go. Then trade a promising young outfielder to fill the closer's role. You saved money , but the whole thing backfires. Papelbon does his thing with the Phils. Reddick blossoms into a key player for Oakland. Bailey flops big time with us.   We free up payroll with the deal with L.A.  But we still won't spend for quality. So , you wind up with the Aaron Cooks of the world.  Somebody will pay Grienke and Hamilton what they are seeking.  We will wind up with the second rate guys again.  As for as putting ourselves back in the same position as before ; how do you like the position we are in now ?  We are a last place ballclub.  Free agency is the quickest way to improve.  So, should we sign another Cook and bide our time until an unproven kid like Barnes becomes our next big thing ?  The chances are that Barnes will never be close to the pitcher that Grienke is. And Bradley Jr. will never be anywhere near the player that Hamilton is.   Let's hope that the Fenway faithful will continue to support mediocrity while the ownership and front office look for " value " and patiently wait for our young prospects to blossom. 

    [/QUOTE]

    I hear what you're saying and I hear and share your frustration.

    However....

    I think the FO is on the right track again.  They got themselves into this mess by signing the best FA available every year regardless of the needs of the team and/or the 'fit' of the player.  Two good examples of that are Crawford & Lackey.  They didn't have a natural spot for CC and Lackey was the best available that year so they signed them. 

    I see that they now have the opportunity to make the same mistakes this year.  They do have the money to sign Hamilton and Grienke but... why?   Just because they're the best available this year?  These two guys in particular have the potential to be a train wreck!.  In neither case is it due to their baseball talent but rather it's due to their own demons.  But those demons come with the players.

    I think they're moving in the right direction.  Up until recently Red Sox teams were built by identifying what the team needed and then filling that need.  Much of determining what the need was and who was going to be filling that need was determined by Bill James sabermetrics - with scouting input as being secondary (but it was still there). 

    Now they're saying that James is going to be much more involved in player acquisition.  It's going to take some time and sorting of the numbers to make this happen - to identify those 'value players'.  Then it'll take a little more time to negotiate with them and sign them,.  That's why I'm in no rush in November to charge out and overpay for someone like Hamilton and hamstring the team to a long term contract.  Rather than see them make a move I want to see them make the right move.

    I look for them to make one big "Splash" FA signing and then several lesser signings that make us say, "Why did they sign HIM?"  The "hims" may not be flashy or name players but they'll give the team what they need.

     

     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from jasko2248. Show jasko2248's posts

    Re: Grienke

    In response to parhunter55's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Tow things:

    1) As dgalehouse points out, you free up payroll.  For what purpose... to maximize return on your investment or to reinvest in your team?  Reinvesting in your team can be done several ways, but one way is to sign the better FAs and stop the dumpster diving (which has not brought any championships since 2004), and

    2) You use the FA signings to strengthen the areas where your farm system are weak and not delivering, ie.  Starting pitching and 1B.  And maybe an OF or two to tide you over until Bradley and Brentz are ready.

    So, as I stated earlier, I believe that if Grienke thinks he could handle Boston, AND he would sign a reasonable contract for reasonable length (4 years at 75 million with a possible 5th year option, or 4 years at 60 with a lot of incentives to earn more), BC should explore it.  He is the best starter arm available.  Not trying at all because of preconceived notions is as foolish as signing Crawford after extensive research and still blowing the call.

    [/QUOTE]

    The Sox Front Office literally "explores" every player in baseball.  My guess is Greinke took less than a minute.  The bottom line is that the Angels, Dodgers and Rangers are all in on Greinke, which means his contract will easily head north of 100 million, a number the Sox would never consider for a guy like Greinke.  Also, read his interview.  If you still think he would want to pitch here, read it again.  

     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from parhunter55. Show parhunter55's posts

    Re: Grienke

    But Grienke and Hamilton both fit the team well, if talent is all you are considering.  Which is to say, Crawford was never a good fit talent-wise because we already had a top of the order, speedy LH hitting outfielder.  Hamilton is the power hitting OFer the Sox lack.  Lackey was the best in a weak crop of starters at a time when the Sox were thinking they were cementing an already strong rotation.  Grienke is a far better talent, in a deeper field of candidates, to be considered at a time when the team has a porous starting rotation that is their number one need.

     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from jasko2248. Show jasko2248's posts

    Re: Grienke

    In response to dgalehouse's comment:
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    In response to jasko2248's comment:
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    In response to dgalehouse's comment:
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    Players like Grienke and Hamilton are going to be very expensive. And , they come with significant risks. But they are the best free agents out there. I think the Sox are gun shy because of recent free agent blunders. So they are going to be cautious. That is understandable. The problem is that it is not easy to contend with a bunch of second-tier free agents. Just hoping to get lucky. Trades are a difficult route to improvement. You can easily get the worst of a trade.  Thinking that our young minor league prospects are all going to blossom into stars is delusional.  Sometimes you just have to roll the dice and spend the bucks. Or , are we turning into a small market franchise ?

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    Trying to build through free agency is never a good idea...you need a balance, while focusing on the present as well as the future.  It's not realistic to think the Sox are going to all of a sudden be a small market team.  If they see value, they'll spend, but Zack Greinke is not worth it, even if he considered playing here, which is very doubtful.  If Hamilton wanted 3/80, the Sox would likely be all over him, but it's bad business to consider 6/150.  The Sox were given a gift by the Dodgers, they arent going to put themselves back in the same bad position they were in before the trade.

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    I understand what you are saying.  But what happens is , you let a top closer like Papelbon go. Then trade a promising young outfielder to fill the closer's role. You saved money , but the whole thing backfires. Papelbon does his thing with the Phils. Reddick blossoms into a key player for Oakland. Bailey flops big time with us.   We free up payroll with the deal with L.A.  But we still won't spend for quality. So , you wind up with the Aaron Cooks of the world.  Somebody will pay Grienke and Hamilton what they are seeking.  We will wind up with the second rate guys again.  As for as putting ourselves back in the same position as before ; how do you like the position we are in now ?  We are a last place ballclub.  Free agency is the quickest way to improve.  So, should we sign another Cook and bide our time until an unproven kid like Barnes becomes our next big thing ?  The chances are that Barnes will never be close to the pitcher that Grienke is. And Bradley Jr. will never be anywhere near the player that Hamilton is.   Let's hope that the Fenway faithful will continue to support mediocrity while the ownership and front office look for " value " and patiently wait for our young prospects to blossom. 

    [/QUOTE]

    Long term, big money contracts for closers are never a good idea.  There is an excellent article in NY Post today about the value of closers.  By the way, Bailey was an All star closer who got injured.  He didn't "flop big time."  It's way too early to make a final judgement on that trade...

     

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