Hamilton Yes No

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from jasko2248. Show jasko2248's posts

    Re: Hamilton Yes No

    In response to Joebreidey's comment:

    Hamilton is a once in a generation talent,

    Part of my reasoning for saying no is that he really isn't a once-in-a-generation talent.

    He is 21st in WAR over the past 4 years.  The biggest mistake that GMs make is signing guys for huge contracts that aren't unique players.

    When SF signed Zito, his K/W was a terrible 1.53, and his whip a pretty poor 1.403.

    When Pujols was signed, his OPS was .903.

    Some contracts just don't work out, but a lot of contracts are predicated more on reputation than numbers.  Hamilton has had a very good .903 OPS over the past four years, with 123 games per year, at an age where his skills should start declining.

    Unique he is not, imo.




    I'll agree to disagree on his "talent," Joe, because I think he is as "talented" a left handed hitter as there is in the game.  His admitted lapses in "concentration," off the field demons and ability to stay healthy have made it impossible to play up to that talent level.  I know what the "stats" say, but if he stayed healthy, and got his head in the right place, again, I think he has the natural ability to be the best player in the game. 

    That said, I wouldn't give him $150 million or any kind of long term deal, but if the the contract was for 4 years or less, you would have to at least do some due dilligence on the guy, as the Sox certainly will...

     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from Joebreidey. Show Joebreidey's posts

    Re: Hamilton Yes No

    That said, I wouldn't give him $150 million or any kind of long term deal, but if the the contract was for 4 years or less, you would have to at least do some due dilligence on the guy, as the Sox certainly will...

    I agree with that.  Almost identical to Greinke in a way.  They're both talented, but both carry risks.  You take their true estmated value and discount for the risk factors.  If you can get them for that price, go for it.  If not, you have to walk.  

    StL offered $200M+ to Pujols, which was an overpay.  LAA way overpaid, so StL walked away.  They then used that money on Beltran with a muck lowere overall risk, and put Craig at 1B.  Beltran had a .842, Craig had a .876 and Pujols had a .859.  StL is in the ALDS, and LA missed the playoffs.

    This is the same thing as Crawford.  Crawford has talent, but as soon as Werth got signed to his ridiculous contract, and CC wanted to top that, we should've walked away.

     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from jasko2248. Show jasko2248's posts

    Re: Hamilton Yes No

    In response to Joebreidey's comment:

    That said, I wouldn't give him $150 million or any kind of long term deal, but if the the contract was for 4 years or less, you would have to at least do some due dilligence on the guy, as the Sox certainly will...

    I agree with that.  Almost identical to Greinke in a way.  They're both talented, but both carry risks.  You take their true estmated value and discount for the risk factors.  If you can get them for that price, go for it.  If not, you have to walk.  

    StL offered $200M+ to Pujols, which was an overpay.  LAA way overpaid, so StL walked away.  They then used that money on Beltran with a muck lowere overall risk, and put Craig at 1B.  Beltran had a .842, Craig had a .876 and Pujols had a .859.  StL is in the ALDS, and LA missed the playoffs.

    This is the same thing as Crawford.  Crawford has talent, but as soon as Werth got signed to his ridiculous contract, and CC wanted to top that, we should've walked away.




    Agree with all, Joe.  The Sox thought they had Werth at 5/90 all but signed, then they panicked when Washington blew that deal out of the water. 

     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from SFBostonFan. Show SFBostonFan's posts

    Re: Hamilton Yes No

    In response to Ice-Cream's comment:

     

    For the right price, I say "yes". 

    A 4-year, $80 million would be my max offer (I know some team out there will offer more years and dollars). 

    We can talk about his so-called demons all we want, but as a whole, I believe he will be a fine addition to the Red Sox.  We need another big bat in the line-up.

    Besides, the real demons have been players such as Lackey and Dice-K. 

     

     



    Let's not be blinded because we have so much cash available due to the Dodgers inheriting some albatross contracts. In real estate, a difficult to sell property or one when the seller was uncertain that he/she would get the asking price, the sale came down to a willing seller and willing buyer. Many teams would love to have Hamilton & I believe the Sox would too but he did make a lackadaisical effort letting a fly ball drop & his offense was mediocre & then in crunch time he struck out miserably and did not  even foul a few off. Now is Hamilton going to be a little humble realizing his effort did not help his sales price ??? Dunno ???  I would not go out more than 4 years and $20 mil per year as has been mentioned by you above and others.  Keep in mind the As  total payroll is $55 mil !!!  I thought maybe we'd build a team with relative  no names as Billy Beane's "Moneyball" of the A's has done. It might take us 2-3 years to be a playoff team.  I do not even think with Hamilton we'd be strongly favored next year. Got to keep Pedroia, Ellsbury, Ortiz, Middlebrooks, Ross, Iglesias(hoping he improves his offense), Loney too at the right price and maybe a couple of others & then clean house. Our pitching staff is not terrific either. Who are our best, Doubront, Buchholz, Lester...  dunno ? Our relief pitchers are mediocre and Bailey was supposed be be our Paplebon. Monday morning QB I know but I'd rather have had Reddick's 32 Hrs. I think, although he did not  look terrific either, we should go after Napoli who has always played well against us & he can catch & play 1st & be  a designated hitter  if we can come up with a solid catching prospect as I am not sold on Salty & Lavarnway.

    Again, what kind of a bidding war will there be for Hamilton ? I think the key is do the Yankees want him & would we drive up the bidding price to keep them out of it or would they go after him as they did Teixeira ?  Would he prefer to go to NY ? Lastly, the $80 mil and we do not  know if he would (his agent) settle for that could get a lot of pitching and hitting young prospects. It is like buying 5-10 penny stocks, but only 1-2 are profitable. In short, take Hamilton only at the right price !!!

     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from georom4. Show georom4's posts

    Re: Hamilton Yes No

    pitching...as in an ace

     

    a shortstop ...as in not a journeyman....but these team has more holes than a sponge...

     

    a closer as in not bailey or aceves

     

    a power hitter to go along with salty and papi/ross

     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from notin. Show notin's posts

    Re: Hamilton Yes No

    In response to georom4's comment:

    pitching...as in an ace

     

    a shortstop ...as in not a journeyman....but these team has more holes than a sponge...

     

    a closer as in not bailey or aceves

     

    a power hitter to go along with salty and papi/ross




    Sox fans are getting a little quick to judge Bailey, who pitched coming off an injury, and may not have been 100%.  Thumb injuries can ruin a pitcher's grip and lead to serious control and velocity problems.

     

    I find it very interesting that Bailey's critics are now saying this year is proof positive that Bailey cannot handle a big markjet pressure.  The irony is, no one is saying that maybe inability to handle that same pressure is why Reddick has been doing so well in Oakland...

     

     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from BosoxJoe5. Show BosoxJoe5's posts

    Re: Hamilton Yes No

    In response to georom4's comment:

    pitching...as in an ace

     

    a shortstop ...as in not a journeyman....but these team has more holes than a sponge...

     

    a closer as in not bailey or aceves

     

    a power hitter to go along with salty and papi/ross



    The Sox aren't going to add amother shortstop with Aviles and Igalias on the roster. Bailey is an allstar and should return to form.

     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from sportsbozo1. Show sportsbozo1's posts

    Re: Hamilton Yes No

    I say yup! He's a bonafide power hitter who can carry a team unlike all of the guys on this team not named Pedrioa or Ortiz.

     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from traven. Show traven's posts

    Re: Hamilton Yes No

    Hard to turn this guy down but since everyone feels that there is a plethera of non-unique players available like Hamilton...who also have the desire to flock to Boston with their talents for pittance and short term contracts...I agree, why even look at Hamilton?

     
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  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from Joebreidey. Show Joebreidey's posts

    Re: Hamilton Yes No

    In response to georom4's comment:

    pitching...as in an ace

     

    a shortstop ...as in not a journeyman....but these team has more holes than a sponge...

     

    a closer as in not bailey or aceves

     

    a power hitter to go along with salty and papi/ross



    The first item blows away all else.  We need an ace.  We need Lee.

     
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  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from georom4. Show georom4's posts

    Re: Hamilton Yes No

    what am i supposed to judge bailey on? he was lousy and his return to "form" to me means being injured all the time....he was a mistake...a huge one because we thought he could fill paps shoes and we gave away Reddick....it dont get worse than that...

     

    aviles and iggy are our shortstops???? please staRT pedro c and trade these guys for any package deal that gets us Felix/ace.....Iggy, aviles, and Ells.....send them all packing...one cant hit,ne cant field, one cant stay healthy....

     

    we have middlebrooks coming back - i would rather sign papi or ross than josh for a zillion bucks

     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from ma6dragon9. Show ma6dragon9's posts

    Re: Hamilton Yes No

    People forget about Middlebrooks (me included)...if healthy, he seems to be destined for a middle of the order spot.

    Forget Hamilton.

    Sayanora Papi.

    Gimmee Bogaerts in 2014 with a little Bradley and I'm a happy camper.

    Bradley

    Pedroia

    Bogaerts

    Middlebrooks

    Your 2014 1-4. Yes please, and thank you. No need to waste money in a shallow free agent pool.

     
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  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from ma6dragon9. Show ma6dragon9's posts

    Re: Hamilton Yes No

    2013 should be a year spent figuring out a LOT of players currently ON the roster:

    Bard

    Bailey

    Lackey

    Lester

    Lavarnway

    Saltalamacchia

    Middlebrooks

    Kalish

    SOme of these guys are going to be VERY valuable, some are not. This team, with a lot of help, will be lucky to get back to .500. Have a little patience.

    Players currently slated to become FA after 2013:

    Votto

    Wright

    Cano

    Kinsler

    Pence

    Michael Morse

    Cruz

    Alex Gordon

    Hart

    Adam Jones

    McCann

    Lincecum

    Haren

    Garza

    Wainright

    Josh Johnson

    Gavin Floyd

    Jurrjens

    Brian Wilson

    Staufer

    Nolasco

    Hanrahan

    Obviously some of those will be extended, but HALF of that list is far more talent than available this off-season.

    Have. Some. Freaking. Patience.

     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from Soxdog67. Show Soxdog67's posts

    Re: Hamilton Yes No

    Just say NO!

    Not a good fit for Boston for many reasons:

    • Past his prime for a multi-year contract
    • substance abuse issues
    • not the best "chemistry" player or leader that the Sox need
    • it's time to stop playing the big dollar free agent game...it doesn't work more often then not.

    If you must do something, give me Nick Swisher for half the price and you have the chemistry guy this team could use...plus he plays two positions of need for the Sox...1B and OF.

     

     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from jasko2248. Show jasko2248's posts

    Re: Hamilton Yes No

    In response to ma6dragon9's comment:

    2013 should be a year spent figuring out a LOT of players currently ON the roster:

    Bard

    Bailey

    Lackey

    Lester

    Lavarnway

    Saltalamacchia

    Middlebrooks

    Kalish

    SOme of these guys are going to be VERY valuable, some are not. This team, with a lot of help, will be lucky to get back to .500. Have a little patience.

    Players currently slated to become FA after 2013:

    Votto

    Wright

    Cano

    Kinsler

    Pence

    Michael Morse

    Cruz

    Alex Gordon

    Hart

    Adam Jones

    McCann

    Lincecum

    Haren

    Garza

    Wainright

    Josh Johnson

    Gavin Floyd

    Jurrjens

    Brian Wilson

    Staufer

    Nolasco

    Hanrahan

    Obviously some of those will be extended, but HALF of that list is far more talent than available this off-season.

    Have. Some. Freaking. Patience.



    Take away Votto (who is under Reds control through 2024) as well as Cano who is not going anywhere, Wright who really isn't a fit and likely will be extended and Kinsler who isn't a fit, and that list loses a lot of luster.  The Sox have the nucleus to be competitive next year, if they make a few moves and some things break right.  They are going to put a competitive team on the field in 2013...

     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from antiqueman1. Show antiqueman1's posts

    Re: Hamilton Yes No

    In response to moonslav59's comment:

    No, as in No WAY!




    Correct moon. NO WAY. NO HOW. Hopefully never. Bad idea. Not a good fit for SOX

     
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  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from BosoxJoe5. Show BosoxJoe5's posts

    Re: Hamilton Yes No

    In response to georom4's comment:

    what am i supposed to judge bailey on? he was lousy and his return to "form" to me means being injured all the time....he was a mistake...a huge one because we thought he could fill paps shoes and we gave away Reddick....it dont get worse than that...

     

    aviles and iggy are our shortstops???? please staRT pedro c and trade these guys for any package deal that gets us Felix/ace.....Iggy, aviles, and Ells.....send them all packing...one cant hit,ne cant field, one cant stay healthy....

     

    we have middlebrooks coming back - i would rather sign papi or ross than josh for a zillion bucks




    First of all you should judge Bailey on the fact he is an Allstar closer whose ERA is largely inflated on one appearance. You give an All Star closer more than 8 chances. Also Reddick had a pretty bad season overall. On Aviles, I think his glove is fine given his bat. The OBP was low but that was probably due to Bobby V not preaching patience. On Iggy, shouldn't you hold your judgement on young middle infielders, since Dustin Pedroia is not currently selling sausage.

     

    The Sox need a LFer. Lets assume Ortiz or Ross come back or the Sox also need a DH and RF in addition to LFer and 1B. So you would have him in addition to those guys.

     
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  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from Schumpeters-Ghost. Show Schumpeters-Ghost's posts

    Re: Hamilton Yes No

    No. 

    We need two starting pitchers.

     

     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from notin. Show notin's posts

    Re: Hamilton Yes No

    In response to jasko2248's comment:

    In response to ma6dragon9's comment:

    2013 should be a year spent figuring out a LOT of players currently ON the roster:

    Bard

    Bailey

    Lackey

    Lester

    Lavarnway

    Saltalamacchia

    Middlebrooks

    Kalish

    SOme of these guys are going to be VERY valuable, some are not. This team, with a lot of help, will be lucky to get back to .500. Have a little patience.

    Players currently slated to become FA after 2013:

    Votto

    Wright

    Cano

    Kinsler

    Pence

    Michael Morse

    Cruz

    Alex Gordon

    Hart

    Adam Jones

    McCann

    Lincecum

    Haren

    Garza

    Wainright

    Josh Johnson

    Gavin Floyd

    Jurrjens

    Brian Wilson

    Staufer

    Nolasco

    Hanrahan

    Obviously some of those will be extended, but HALF of that list is far more talent than available this off-season.

    Have. Some. Freaking. Patience.



    Take away Votto (who is under Reds control through 2024) as well as Cano who is not going anywhere, Wright who really isn't a fit and likely will be extended and Kinsler who isn't a fit, and that list loses a lot of luster.  The Sox have the nucleus to be competitive next year, if they make a few moves and some things break right.  They are going to put a competitive team on the field in 2013...




    Votto signed a 12 year deal prior to this season.

    Cano and Wright will both very likely be extended this offseason as well.

    That leaves Ian Kinsler and Hunter Pence as the top potential FA targets for 2014. 

    Likr I said, star platers do not reach free agency as quickly anymore...

     
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