Hats off to BEN C. , the pride of RED SOX NATION...............

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  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from devildavid. Show devildavid's posts

    Re: Hats off to BEN C. , the pride of RED SOX NATION...............

    Yes, Ben was very smart to sign Ortiz to a 2 year deal. Glad you finally see the light.





    "Hold it fellows, that don't move me. Let's get real, real gone for a change."

    -Elvis Presley

     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from Hfxsoxnut. Show Hfxsoxnut's posts

    Re: Hats off to BEN C. , the pride of RED SOX NATION...............

    Now try and convince your pal Softy of this.

     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from ZILLAGOD. Show ZILLAGOD's posts

    Re: Hats off to BEN C. , the pride of RED SOX NATION...............


    We all said the same about Theo.....until the losing started.

    A GM is only as good as the team on the field. How many people are nominating the Houston GM or the Mets GM for honors? By the same token, how many people are looking at St. Louis, a team that lost the best slugger on the planet and hasn't skipped a beat? Do any of us even know the name of the Cardinals GM?....I'd give this guy my vote, and his team's division is no cakewalk, with Pittsburgh and Cincinnati progressing nicely.

    We tend to view our GMs with either rose colored glasses or too much disdain. The guy made some good moves, then some bad moves , then a few more good moves....but ultimately it is up to the players he acquires to stay healthy, play well and be loved by the fans. Too many things he has no control over, best to wait a few years and make assessmnet based on teh big picture not jump on the bandwagon and nominate he guy for and award based on 7/8ths of a season that has a ways to go yet.

    If we lose the first playoff series, do they fire Ben or still give him the award?

    "Advertising is the rattling of a stick inside a swill bucket."- George Orwell

     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from mannyortez3424. Show mannyortez3424's posts

    Re: Hats off to BEN C. , the pride of RED SOX NATION...............

    Yup. I'm not expecting anything this year as I am sure most of you felt coming into the season. I still feel that way.

    Ben turned a 69-win team into a potential 96-win team with a bunch of low-risk quality signings.

    I'll take a 90+ win season when everyone is expecting a rebuild every day.

    It's pretty amazing how he has turned this team around really.

    In response to ZILLAGOD's comment:


    We all said the same about Theo.....until the losing started.

    A GM is only as good as the team on the field. How many people are nominating the Houston GM or the Mets GM for honors? By the same token, how many people are looking at St. Louis, a team that lost the best slugger on the planet and hasn't skipped a beat? Do any of us even know the name of the Cardinals GM?....I'd give this guy my vote, and his team's division is no cakewalk, with Pittsburgh and Cincinnati progressing nicely.

    We tend to view our GMs with either rose colored glasses or too much disdain. The guy made some good moves, then some bad moves , then a few more good moves....but ultimately it is up to the players he acquires to stay healthy, play well and be loved by the fans. Too many things he has no control over, best to wait a few years and make assessmnet based on teh big picture not jump on the bandwagon and nominate he guy for and award based on 7/8ths of a season that has a ways to go yet.

    If we lose the first playoff series, do they fire Ben or still give him the award?

    "Advertising is the rattling of a stick inside a swill bucket."- George Orwell




     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from royf19. Show royf19's posts

    Re: Hats off to BEN C. , the pride of RED SOX NATION...............

    In response to ZILLAGOD's comment:


    We all said the same about Theo.....until the losing started.

    A GM is only as good as the team on the field. How many people are nominating the Houston GM or the Mets GM for honors? By the same token, how many people are looking at St. Louis, a team that lost the best slugger on the planet and hasn't skipped a beat? Do any of us even know the name of the Cardinals GM?....I'd give this guy my vote, and his team's division is no cakewalk, with Pittsburgh and Cincinnati progressing nicely.

    We tend to view our GMs with either rose colored glasses or too much disdain. The guy made some good moves, then some bad moves , then a few more good moves....but ultimately it is up to the players he acquires to stay healthy, play well and be loved by the fans. Too many things he has no control over, best to wait a few years and make assessmnet based on teh big picture not jump on the bandwagon and nominate he guy for and award based on 7/8ths of a season that has a ways to go yet.

    If we lose the first playoff series, do they fire Ben or still give him the award?

    "Advertising is the rattling of a stick inside a swill bucket."- George Orwell



    Well stated.

    Too many want to paint managers or GMs in black and white terms. I'm still leaning toward Dick O'Connell as the greatest GM in Sox history, but it's still sort of incomplete because he was abrubtly dismissed at a key time. (I still think the Sox would have won in the late 1970s had O'Connell stayed as GM instead of Haywood Sullivan.)

    But Theo is close. Yes he made some bad moves, but he made a lot of good moves too. And he had some bad luck (injuries). Because of how it ended a lot of fans want to dump on him and overstate the bad news and underrate the good moves and give Duquette more credit for 2004 than he deserves.

    Personally, I have a lot of problems with Duquette for a number of reasons. Having said that, I will acknowledge the good things he did. he did make some great moves and deserves some credit for 2004 because of Pedro, Manny, Damon, Lowe and Tek.

    So as for Ben, right now he's done a great job. Sure some moves didn't work out -- or at least not yet -- but there's not a lot ot complain about. We'll see what happens going forward. The big thing is if he can keep the minor  league strong. For all the bad feelings toward Theo because of the end, one thing that helps him is wealth of prospects that the Sox brought in during Theo's reign.

    In the end, that'sone of my issues with Duquette. Yes, there were some prospects in the system when he left, but overall, the farm system wasn't very strong and that was something he said was going to be a big focus.

     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from ZILLAGOD. Show ZILLAGOD's posts

    Re: Hats off to BEN C. , the pride of RED SOX NATION...............

    Also , you have to consider how the game has changed from Dick O'Connell to Ben Cherrington. The sport is so much more dependant on TV money, which is escalating salaries. The trade deadline , which we never even heard about in 1967, is a big deal now. It's a chance to get that missing piece or dump that unwanted player(s) on some team that thinks he or they are a better fit. The DH didn't exist in 1967, and the league ( like all other sports) is watered down by over-expansion. You can "rebuild" your farm system in a single multi-player trade, by acquiring a handful of prospects for an overpaid star. Add to this the new 2-Wilcard team format and players coming from Japan, Korea, Cuba and many Central and South American countries( even Canada once in a while)...man, it's a complicated mess being a GM in today's MLB!!!, how do these guys find time to sleep?

    I think it's even tougher for the GM off a small market team. How do you build a farm system and a competitve team when you have no money to spend?

    "Advertising is the rattling of a stick inside a swill bucket."- George Orwell

     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from 67redsox. Show 67redsox's posts

    Re: Hats off to BEN C. , the pride of RED SOX NATION...............

    In response to Bill-806's comment:

     

    It has been a long haul since last October........  One thing is very clear, Ben has "TRANSFORMED" this team, for sure !!!

     



    Agreed!  He put a competative team full of baseball players on the field.  No chicken and video guys in this bunch.  It's nice to see these dirt dogs love the game and play hard.  Ben chose wisely!

     

     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from royf19. Show royf19's posts

    Re: Hats off to BEN C. , the pride of RED SOX NATION...............

    In response to ZILLAGOD's comment:

    Also , you have to consider how the game has changed from Dick O'Connell to Ben Cherrington. The sport is so much more dependant on TV money, which is escalating salaries. The trade deadline , which we never even heard about in 1967, is a big deal now. It's a chance to get that missing piece or dump that unwanted player(s) on some team that thinks he or they are a better fit. The DH didn't exist in 1967, and the league ( like all other sports) is watered down by over-expansion. You can "rebuild" your farm system in a single multi-player trade, by acquiring a handful of prospects for an overpaid star. Add to this the new 2-Wilcard team format and players coming from Japan, Korea, Cuba and many Central and South American countries( even Canada once in a while)...man, it's a complicated mess being a GM in today's MLB!!!, how do these guys find time to sleep?

    I think it's even tougher for the GM off a small market team. How do you build a farm system and a competitve team when you have no money to spend?

    "Advertising is the rattling of a stick inside a swill bucket."- George Orwell



    O'Connell did a great job building the 1967 team, but I'm more impressed with how he built those teams in the 1970s when there was DH. Remember, he had the foresight to find a top DH (Cepeda) when the rules changed. I think he would have handled free agency in the late 1970s better than Sullivan did.

    The trade deadline is interesting. I remember when it was in the middle of June. Trades back then had simply to do with filling holes on the field, rather than making guys available to dump salary. There trades involving veterans to help a team now for young players to help for the future, but it still was based on team building, not because of salaries.

     

     
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  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from andrewmitch. Show andrewmitch's posts

    Re: Hats off to BEN C. , the pride of RED SOX NATION...............

    BC is doing a good job but he did make some pretty bad trades

    Lowrie for Oppy

    Reddick for Bailey

    Trading for Hanrahan

    Trading for Thornton

    His ability to trade for bull pen arms is very disturbing

     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from mef429. Show mef429's posts

    Re: Hats off to BEN C. , the pride of RED SOX NATION...............

    In response to andrewmitch's comment:

    BC is doing a good job but he did make some pretty bad trades

    Lowrie for Oppy

    Reddick for Bailey

    Trading for Hanrahan

    Trading for Thornton

    His ability to trade for bull pen arms is very disturbing



    if the worst thing you can say about BC is that he can't trade for a BP arm then i'd say he's doing a damn fine job. good thing BP arms grow on trees and are the easiest positions to fill from within

     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from andrewmitch. Show andrewmitch's posts

    Re: Hats off to BEN C. , the pride of RED SOX NATION...............

    He did a good job, I agree.  I'd just have Ben let someone else make decisions re trading for bull pen arms.  By the way, they do not grow on trees.  If they did, he wouldn't have traded for such garbage and every team would have a lights out pen.

     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from mef429. Show mef429's posts

    Re: Hats off to BEN C. , the pride of RED SOX NATION...............

    In response to andrewmitch's comment:

    He did a good job, I agree.  I'd just have Ben let someone else make decisions re trading for bull pen arms.  By the way, they do not grow on trees.  If they did, he wouldn't have traded for such garbage and every team would have a lights out pen.



    they "grow on trees" more than any other position..

     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from andrewmitch. Show andrewmitch's posts

    Re: Hats off to BEN C. , the pride of RED SOX NATION...............

    But I thought there was only ONE Mariano Rivera?

     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from mef429. Show mef429's posts

    Re: Hats off to BEN C. , the pride of RED SOX NATION...............

    In response to andrewmitch's comment:

    But I thought there was only ONE Mariano Rivera?



    BP arms grow on trees = Mariano Riveras grow on trees?

     
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