Have you considered staying away from Fenway Park?

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    Re: Have you considered staying away from Fenway Park?

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    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Have you considered staying away from Fenway Park? : Why is so wrong that there is a 100th Anniversary Celebration for Fenway Park? I would think as Red Sox fans who love Fenway, we'd want to celebrate it.
    Posted by royf19[/QUOTE]

    First off, I think that ownership is leveraging the park's 100th anniversary to market the organization in 2012, and the players and the results of the games are a by-product and secondary to that celebration.

    Secondly, despite all the renovations and improvements the park is still antiquated and I feel that Boston fans deserve a more state-of-art venue for their baseball team. There are far too many seats that are misdirected or too small for most humans in the 21st century...let's not forget the narrow aisles and numerous obstructed views.

    If you visit other ballpark venues like Citizens Park in Philly or Camden Yards in Baltimore, you get to understand that almost everyone in attendance can actually have comfortable experience watching the game.

    Getting back to point one...my focus is and always will be the product that plays on the field and in the team winning, not how wonderful and awesome is...
    sadly this place has taken on a life of its own and will be here for years to come...along with the pathetic singing of Sweet Caroline even when the team is getting beaten badly...the pink hats need their celebratory song originated by a Yankee fan!

    I bet if the Titanic hadn't sunk in 1912 it would have been mothballed by now too. Maybe, if it was still around Sox ownership would have bought it and placed it in Boston Harbor and called it their 2nd wonder of Boston.




     
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    Re: Have you considered staying away from Fenway Park?

    spot on on the ownership failures, Buddy Leroux's coup attempt...uuuuuugly...poor Tony Conigliaro. The guy is probably turning over in his grave, thinking how could one MLB player have so much bad luck. That guy could hit a mile and he probably would have been a 500-home run guy with a healthy career. The Clipper-Celtics years were about as bad it gets. It's funny, I think both John Havlicek and Carl Yastrzemski, the two icons of their eras in Boston sports, both played their final year on pretty lousy teams. 
     
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    Re: Have you considered staying away from Fenway Park?

    Here's one for the books took, roy. I always thought what if Parcells had been fired and not allowed to coach that Packers Super Bowl. It would have changed history. Pats would have won that game. I really believe Bill had a cloud hanging over his head and that lockerroom. Not to mention the stupidity of constantly kicking it to Mr. Heisman.
     
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    Re: Have you considered staying away from Fenway Park?

    In Response to Re: Have you considered staying away from Fenway Park?:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Have you considered staying away from Fenway Park? : First off, I think that ownership is leveraging the park's 100th anniversary to market the organization in 2012, and the players and the results of the games are a by-product and secondary to that celebration. Secondly, despite all the renovations and improvements the park is still antiquated and I feel that Boston fans deserve a more state-of-art venue for their baseball team. There are far too many seats that are misdirected or too small for most humans in the 21st century...let's not forget the narrow aisles and numerous obstructed views. If you visit other ballpark venues like Citizens Park in Philly or Camden Yards in Baltimore, you get to understand that almost everyone in attendance can actually have comfortable experience watching the game. Getting back to point one...my focus is and always will be the product that plays on the field and in the team winning, not how wonderful and awesome is... sadly this place has taken on a life of its own and will be here for years to come...along with the pathetic singing of Sweet Caroline even when the team is getting beaten badly...the pink hats need their celebratory song originated by a Yankee fan! I bet if the Titanic hadn't sunk in 1912 it would have been mothballed by now too. Maybe, if it was still around Sox ownership would have bought it and placed it in Boston Harbor and called it their 2nd wonder of Boston.
    Posted by Soxdog67[/QUOTE]

    In all honesty, I think the only way you can say the bold statement is if you want to interprety their actions negatively. Like I pointed out before, they're spending money on the payroll. I really don't believe they'd be spending any more or would have handled the offseason any different regardless of the celebration.

    And the Titanic reference has nothing to do with the ballpark. The 100-years -- OK fine. But the Titanic? Really don't think it makes a difference. The ownership group has consistently gone all out with various celebrations. What would the outcry be if they ignored the 100 years?

    As for Sweet Carolina, OK some like it some don't, and I don't like it when they're losing. To me, it's kind of corny and I thought it was stupid when it started. But why is it wrong for the ownership group to try to make it a fun experience for everyone -- blending new things like the song, with old traditions like the organ music. I grew up with John Kiley and the organ and that's all I need. But the younger generation are used to more bells and whistles. 

    You said just your focus is always on the field. Well, mine is too. But there's nothing wrong with the ownership focusing on the entire product. It's not like Lucchino is planning these celebrations. That's Tom Werner's area. Luchhino handles the on-the-field product, so it's not like these activities take away from his duties.

    In other words, just because only "A" is important to us, it doesn't mean that when the teams also is doing "B" and "C" that it takes away from "A." In fact, the focus on the other areas helps generates revenue, which helps the on-the-field product.

    If the Sox don't make the playoffs, it won't have anything to do with "B" "C" etc. It will simply be that Cherrington and Larry made bad decision concerning signings. Like I said, I'm not going to look at a team with a $180 million-plus payroll and say they should have spent more. Smarter, yes, but nor more.

    As for the park, OK you don't like it. But many fans, many hardcore fans like it. Did you see the uproar that developed when Harrington tried to get a new ballpark going back in 2000. If Henry and Co. ever decide to go that route, it's not going to be easy getting a park built dealing with corrupt Boston politics and "Save Fenway" groups that will pop up and take things to court.

    You saw what it took for Kraft to get the new stadium built. I'm surprised the new Garden was able to get built. So I don't blame any ownership group for not wanting to deal with that headache.

    And let's say Henry and Co. said from the get-go they wanted to build a new park. Can you imagine the criticism they would have taken. Fans and media would have blasted them as outsiders who have no appreciation for Red Sox history. You have to at least admit this.

    Here, they're trying to show that appreciation for Red Sox history -- something they've tried to do in other areas -- and they're being criticized. They can't win.
     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from royf19. Show royf19's posts

    Re: Have you considered staying away from Fenway Park?

    In Response to Re: Have you considered staying away from Fenway Park?:
    [QUOTE]Here's one for the books took, roy. I always thought what if Parcells had been fired and not allowed to coach that Packers Super Bowl. It would have changed history. Pats would have won that game. I really believe Bill had a cloud hanging over his head and that lockerroom. Not to mention the stupidity of constantly kicking it to Mr. Heisman.
    Posted by dannycater[/QUOTE]

    I disagree. I think there would have been more of a cloud had Parcells not coached the game. But on that line, I've had two thoughts.

    1. What if Parcells was "allowed to buy the groceries" and stayed. Would the Pete Carrol years been better had Parcells coached those teams and would Belichick still eventually would have taken over? And if so, when?

    2. What if Fairbanks didn't bolt after the 1978 seasons. Or at least, what would have happened if none of became public until after the playoffs?
     
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    Re: Have you considered staying away from Fenway Park?

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    [QUOTE]The John Henry ownership group has brought two championships to Boston and forever changed the loveable loser reputation the Red Sox had for decades. But look at what else they've done - pink hats, selling bricks, a 24/7 marketing machine merchandising a "brand".....and look at all the dysfunction we're faced with now. This must be one of the most easily disliked clubs in sports and what does it cost to take a family of four to a game now? So I'm wondering - have you considered staying away from Fenway, or are you a true blue fan who will attend games no matter what?
    Posted by davetheknave[/QUOTE]

    The only way I could stay away from Fenway, or stop supporting our club would be if the park got shut down due to a natural or man made disaster.  
     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from S5. Show S5's posts

    Re: Have you considered staying away from Fenway Park?

    In Response to Re: Have you considered staying away from Fenway Park?:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Have you considered staying away from Fenway Park? :    despite all the renovations and improvements the park is still antiquated and I feel that Boston fans deserve a more state-of-art venue for their baseball team. ...
    If you visit other ballpark venues like Citizens Park in Philly or Camden Yards in Baltimore, you get to understand that almost everyone in attendance can actually have comfortable experience watching the game.
    ...
    Getting back to point one...my focus is and always will be the product that plays on the field and in the team winning, not how wonderful and awesome is...Posted by Soxdog67[/QUOTE]

    I've managed to get myself to four relatively new parks recently (although one of them is The Trop UGHH) and I've got to admit that they're more fan-friendly than is Fenway.  The "rub" is that the qualities they have lend themselves more to the present than the past.  OTOH, I agree with the preceeding post - portions of which I deleted - that parts of Fenway are difficult for the fans. 
    The trade-off there is that Fenway is steeped in baseball history while CY, YS, Trop, and Citibank have no history.  (Sorry Yankee fans, but that's the way I saw it.)

    So my question is, why can't we have it both ways??  Why can't we have fan-friendly stadiums that celebrate the archtecture and comforts of the future and at the same time retain places like Fenway and Wrigley as monuments to the past?  Let's not "Take paradise and put up a parking lot".

    And if your focus is on what's going on on the field and whether the team wins, why are you worried about the stadium anyway??
     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from Soxdog67. Show Soxdog67's posts

    Re: Have you considered staying away from Fenway Park?

    In Response to Re: Have you considered staying away from Fenway Park?:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Have you considered staying away from Fenway Park? : In all honesty, I think the only way you can say the bold statement is if you want to interprety their actions negatively. Like I pointed out before, they're spending money on the payroll. I really don't believe they'd be spending any more or would have handled the offseason any different regardless of the celebration. And the Titanic reference has nothing to do with the ballpark. The 100-years -- OK fine. But the Titanic? Really don't think it makes a difference. The ownership group has consistently gone all out with various celebrations. What would the outcry be if they ignored the 100 years? As for Sweet Carolina, OK some like it some don't, and I don't like it when they're losing. To me, it's kind of corny and I thought it was stupid when it started. But why is it wrong for the ownership group to try to make it a fun experience for everyone -- blending new things like the song, with old traditions like the organ music. I grew up with John Kiley and the organ and that's all I need. But the younger generation are used to more bells and whistles.  You said just your focus is always on the field. Well, mine is too. But there's nothing wrong with the ownership focusing on the entire product. It's not like Lucchino is planning these celebrations. That's Tom Werner's area. Luchhino handles the on-the-field product, so it's not like these activities take away from his duties. In other words, just because only "A" is important to us, it doesn't mean that when the teams also is doing "B" and "C" that it takes away from "A." In fact, the focus on the other areas helps generates revenue, which helps the on-the-field product. If the Sox don't make the playoffs, it won't have anything to do with "B" "C" etc. It will simply be that Cherrington and Larry made bad decision concerning signings. Like I said, I'm not going to look at a team with a $180 million-plus payroll and say they should have spent more. Smarter, yes, but nor more. As for the park, OK you don't like it. But many fans, many hardcore fans like it. Did you see the uproar that developed when Harrington tried to get a new ballpark going back in 2000. If Henry and Co. ever decide to go that route, it's not going to be easy getting a park built dealing with corrupt Boston politics and "Save Fenway" groups that will pop up and take things to court. You saw what it took for Kraft to get the new stadium built. I'm surprised the new Garden was able to get built. So I don't blame any ownership group for not wanting to deal with that headache. And let's say Henry and Co. said from the get-go they wanted to build a new park. Can you imagine the criticism they would have taken. Fans and media would have blasted them as outsiders who have no appreciation for Red Sox history. You have to at least admit this. Here, they're trying to show that appreciation for Red Sox history -- something they've tried to do in other areas -- and they're being criticized. They can't win.
    Posted by royf19[/QUOTE]

    Thanks for taking the time to comment on my post with a well articulated response. Your contrary point of view is noted.

    I have nothing against Sox ownership, except that I believe their focus is not some much on the team this year. Yes, they have spent a lot of money on the players and have one of the highest payrolls, but was it wise money spent??
    Maybe they have become gunshy now after making some ill-advised free agent acquisitions and are taking a step back. The only money really spent this offseason was resigning Ortiz, who is now a major piece of Sox history and I'm sure will be incorporated into the Fenway celebration...it would have been nice to have Papelbon there too with maybe a dance on the mound.

    But the team looks like it could be in some trouble now and Sox ownership seems to be just counting the days to April 13 to start the celebration.

    I guess what it comes down to for me is the fact that I really am not a big fan of the ballpark, and never have been...I am tainted because I have sat in many of the very bad seats in an effort to just experience the game live. I found it to be a more enjoyable experience watching the Sox play at their opponents home park...thankfully in Baltimore, it felt like home games with all the Sox fans in attendance.

    Your points about acceptance of a new stadium is somewhat correct...and there were numerous complaints about the New Garden when it first opened, lacking history and all that stuff...well, guess what...it has it's own history now and nobody complains about the venue anymore.

    Yes there would be a filibuster if the Sox decided to build a new park but over time people would accept it and end up enjoying the game experience a whole lot more. All this mumbo-jumbo about tradition and history means little if the current product is not competitive.

    Sox ownership better be careful, because the park has been getting filled by many pinkhats recently because the team was successful, which is good for ticket sales...but they may be killing the golden goose...stand by.
     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from Soxdog67. Show Soxdog67's posts

    Re: Have you considered staying away from Fenway Park?

    In Response to Re: Have you considered staying away from Fenway Park?:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Have you considered staying away from Fenway Park? : I've managed to get myself to four relatively new parks recently (although one of them is The Trop UGHH) and I've got to admit that they're more fan-friendly than is Fenway.  The "rub" is that the qualities they have lend themselves more to the present than the past.  OTOH,   I agree with the preceeding post - portions of which I deleted - that parts of Fenway are difficult for the fans.  The trade-off there is that Fenway is steeped in baseball history while CY, YS, Trop, and Citibank have no history.  (Sorry Yankee fans, but that's the way I saw it.) So my question is, why can't we have it both ways??  Why can't we have fan-friendly stadiums that celebrate the archtecture and comforts of the future and at the same time retain places like Fenway and Wrigley as monuments to the past?  Let's not "Take paradise and put up a parking lot". And if your focus is on what's going on on the field and whether the team wins, why are you worried about the stadium anyway??
    Posted by S5[/QUOTE]

    Gee maybe I worry about the stadium because I enjoy watching games live...but you're probably too young to remember the old jingle:

    "It's a beautiful day for a ballgame and being their is twice the fun"

    Well its not always more fun to attend a game at Fenway, especially when you end up sitting in an unmarked obstructed view seat...and there are many of those in that old ball yard...but that is supposed to be part of the charm, right??


     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from S5. Show S5's posts

    Re: Have you considered staying away from Fenway Park?

    In Response to Re: Have you considered staying away from Fenway Park?:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Have you considered staying away from Fenway Park? : Gee maybe I worry about the stadium because I enjoy watching games live...but you're probably too young to remember the old jingle: "It's a beautiful day for a ballgame and being their is twice the fun" Well its not always more fun to attend a game at Fenway, especially when you end up sitting in an unmarked obstructed view seat...and there are many of those in that old ball yard...but that is supposed to be part of the charm, right??
    Posted by Soxdog67[/QUOTE]

    LOL.  I WISH I were too young!! 

    I'm the first to admit that my situation is different from those who live in the city in that I only attend a few games a year; therefore I'm picky about where I sit.  I know that if I choose to sit in the Infield Grandstand seats there's a good chance I'll have an "obstruction" ('obstruction' by MY definition, not theirs) between me and some part of the field. That's why I usually take my time and use Precise Seating to decide on seats before I buy. And I accept the fact that that 'obstruction' will be there. 

    It's kinda like being with the same woman all your life.  She's not as svelte as she once was (I'm not either) and she's showing her age a bit, but there's so darn much history between us that I'm willing to accept that there's a lot to be said for growing old gracefully - so I'm not ready to throw her to the curb for a newer model. :-)
     
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    Re: Have you considered staying away from Fenway Park?

    In Response to Re: Have you considered staying away from Fenway Park?:
    [QUOTE]This Dragon poster should be put onto ignore. What a 24 / 7 whiner about everything. I'd much rather read posts from the reasonable, non-troll Yankee fans on the forum. Whether dragon man is a closet Yankee fan, a chronic Red Sox malcontent, or just a lonely man wanting attention is up to your judgement. My mind is made up. He goes onto Ignore.
    Posted by 6k42lt913c[/QUOTE]

    LOL....I just spit my coffee through my nose.

    kimpike, you whine about more stuff in here than every other poster combined.

    You are one screwed up individual (and by individual I mean individual with multiple monikers)  

     
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    Re: Have you considered staying away from Fenway Park?

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    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Have you considered staying away from Fenway Park? : I disagree. I think there would have been more of a cloud had Parcells not coached the game. But on that line, I've had two thoughts. 1. What if Parcells was "allowed to buy the groceries" and stayed. Would the Pete Carrol years been better had Parcells coached those teams and would Belichick still eventually would have taken over? And if so, when? 2. What if Fairbanks didn't bolt after the 1978 seasons. Or at least, what would have happened if none of became public until after the playoffs?
    Posted by royf19[/QUOTE]

    Yeah, I was thinking about Chuck Fairbanks and why it was so important for the Pats to not let him coach in the playoffs. But at the same time, Chuck's timing was without a doubt one of the most ill-timed decisions/moves I've ever heard of in sports history. NFL's most exciting team with everything to look forward to with a great amount of young talent, and then he bolts publicly by announcing he was taking Colorado job. I thought it was sad to not let him coach, but again, I can understand why they wouldn't let him. It was embarrassing to organization that he did what he did.
     
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    Re: Have you considered staying away from Fenway Park?

    For almost 40 years i've been rooting for the Sox no matter how the team does or who owns them. I spent 21 years in the U.S. Air Force and travelled all over the world and back, not once did I ever think about not rooting for the Sox. I never got a chance to see a game at Fenway Park during those years, but I did get to see them several times in Oakland Ca.  I live in central Florida and I have taken in spring training games at Ft. Myers and other locations when the Sox are playing. I will be in Boston the first week of July and will be taking my family to Fenway for the Yankee series.

    Go Sox!!

     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from Soxdog67. Show Soxdog67's posts

    Re: Have you considered staying away from Fenway Park?

    In Response to Re: Have you considered staying away from Fenway Park?:
    [QUOTE]For almost 40 years i've been rooting for the Sox no matter how the team does or who owns them. I spent 21 years in the U.S. Air Force and travelled all over the world and back, not once did I ever think about not rooting for the Sox. I never got a chance to see a game at Fenway Park during those years, but I did get to see them several times in Oakland Ca.  I live in central Florida and I have taken in spring training games at Ft. Myers and other locations when the Sox are playing. I will be in Boston the first week of July and will be taking my family to Fenway for the Yankee series. Go Sox!!
    Posted by Syd[/QUOTE]

    First off Thanks for your service!!

    Secondly, if you've never been to Fenway Park then a first time experience is a good thing! Hopefully you will have seats that will make it a comfortable and enjoyable experience for you and your family.

    There are some real good seats in that park, but there's also a lot of bad ones.

     
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    Re: Have you considered staying away from Fenway Park?

    As a native NYer, living in NJ, I make my yearly pilgrimage to Fenway, once or twice a year and have no plans to stop....still a great place to see a Ballgame and a great city to boot. This management has done wonders to make the ballpark experience more enjoyable and anybody who has been going there for years would have to agree.....just because of the drama of last year is no reason to abandon them.
     
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