Haves and Haves Not

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from S5. Show S5's posts

    Re: Haves and Haves Not

    In response to mef429's comment:

    In response to softlaw2's comment:

     

    Spring training isn't a couple of weeks, and I stated, over and over, that Bradley would struggle at the plate over the big sample but would adjust.

    I'm enjoying the Carp and Nava Euphoria, from an amusment point of view. Nava's a good bench role guy, Carp isn't.

     



    that explains the ST but not the 2 game and 1AB sample sizes you used to bash player...... so i say it again.. hypocrite.

     



    It doesn't even explain the Spring Training.  A game in ST isn't equal to a game in the regular season.  Early in ST the starters get maybe 2 AB's - about half a game.  Later in the season they progress to three AB's or 6-7 innings.   Even in the last week it's rare for a "regular" to play an entire game. 

    In addition to that there are more days off for individual players during ST than in the regular season.

    Leave it to Softy to muddy the water by implying that a two AB game is equal to a four AB game and that players participate in as many games in a month of ST as in a month of regular season.

    What a clown!

     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Haves and Haves Not

    In response to S5's comment:

    In response to mef429's comment:

     

    In response to softlaw2's comment:

     

    Spring training isn't a couple of weeks, and I stated, over and over, that Bradley would struggle at the plate over the big sample but would adjust.

    I'm enjoying the Carp and Nava Euphoria, from an amusment point of view. Nava's a good bench role guy, Carp isn't.

     



    that explains the ST but not the 2 game and 1AB sample sizes you used to bash player...... so i say it again.. hypocrite.

     

     



    It doesn't even explain the Spring Training.  A game in ST isn't equal to a game in the regular season.  Early in ST the starters get maybe 2 AB's - about half a game.  Later in the season they progress to three AB's or 6-7 innings.   Even in the last week it's rare for a "regular" to play an entire game. 

     

    In addition to that there are more days off for individual players during ST than in the regular season.

    Leave it to Softy to muddy the water by implying that a two AB game is equal to a four AB game and that players participate in as many games in a month of ST as in a month of regular season.

    What a clown!



    He was bashing Drew after a 1 game sample size. Somehow, those small sample sizes count, but ones 10 times that are to be ignored.

     
  3. This post has been removed.

     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Haves and Haves Not

    In response to softlaw2's comment:

    No, stooge, I was criticizing S. Drew before the Red Sox signed the guy! You applauded the guy for the slugging skills he has. How's that working out!



    Clown. I have wanted Iggy as our FT SS before you even knew who he was.

    I said Drew is a better hitter than Iggy and he is, but you prefer to look at the tiny sample size of this year, again, and prove again that you cherry pick small sample sizes to your liking and disregard those that make you look clownish-- like almost all of them.

     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Haves and Haves Not

    We were all "have nots" tonight.

    Here's the updated OBP numbers:

    Carp  .417

    Nava .409

    Pede .404

    Gom  .375

    Vict   .364

    Ells   .333

    Nap  .310

    Salt  .295

    JBJ  .263

    Drew .225

    Midd  .203

     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from maxbialystock. Show maxbialystock's posts

    Re: Haves and Haves Not

    The Athletics offensive deluge notwithstanding, last night was a miserable one for baseball--cold and wet. 

    I have a slightly different take on haves and haves not, which is simply that the haves not have room for improvement and probably will improve. 

    Also, I think sometimes OBP can be over-rated.  Pedroia has a great OBP, but isn't scoring or batting in runs, I think, because his slugging percentage and OPS are down, and this is not good for a guy in the #3 slot.  Surprisingly, Ellsbury in the leadoff slot has a low OBP but easily leads the team in runs scored, some of which is thanks to having Victorino follow him in the lineup. 

     

     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Haves and Haves Not

    In response to maxbialystock's comment:

    The Athletics offensive deluge notwithstanding, last night was a miserable one for baseball--cold and wet. 

    I have a slightly different take on haves and haves not, which is simply that the haves not have room for improvement and probably will improve. 

    Also, I think sometimes OBP can be over-rated.  Pedroia has a great OBP, but isn't scoring or batting in runs, I think, because his slugging percentage and OPS are down, and this is not good for a guy in the #3 slot.  Surprisingly, Ellsbury in the leadoff slot has a low OBP but easily leads the team in runs scored, some of which is thanks to having Victorino follow him in the lineup. 

     



    Yes, I agree that things will even out over time.

    OBP is still one of the most important factors in increasing the odds of scoring runs, but there are other factors invloved on scoring.

    I like OPS better, and even though it weighs SLG% too much, it is a better indicator than just OBP.

     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Haves and Haves Not

    10 hits and 4 BBs last night brought some guys up in OBP:

    Papi   .529

    Iggy   .476

    Carp   .462

    Nava  .426

    Pedey .404

    Gomes .381

    Victor  .358

     

    Ellsb    .337

    Naps   .330

    Chiri   .316

    Salty   .295

     

    JBJ      .263

     

    S Drew .227

    Midd    .193

    Ross    .154

     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from southpaw777. Show southpaw777's posts

    Re: Haves and Haves Not

    In response to moonslav59's comment:

    10 hits and 4 BBs last night brought some guys up in OBP:

    Papi   .529

    Iggy   .476

    Carp   .462

    Nava  .426

    Pedey .404

    Gomes .381

    Victor  .358

     

    Ellsb    .337

    Naps   .330

    Chiri   .316

    Salty   .295

     

    JBJ      .263

     

    S Drew .227

    Midd    .193

    Ross    .154




    Gomes has a ton of walks which is mostly how his OBP is so high. 42 PA 32 AB. 10BB and 6 Hits.. If he gets that bat going consistently, that OPS will rise to over .900.

    I suspect a few more names will have their OBP rise on this list as well. Salty will hang around where hes at. maybe get a little over .300. Drew should get somewhere around .350ish, give or take a few either way. Ells should be near.380 and naps should rise a little. carp and nava should come down a bit. papi too. Pedey could stay around .400.

    Come June its should be closer to reality.

     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Haves and Haves Not

    In response to southpaw777's comment:

    In response to moonslav59's comment:

     

    10 hits and 4 BBs last night brought some guys up in OBP:

    Papi   .529

    Iggy   .476

    Carp   .462

    Nava  .426

    Pedey .404

    Gomes .381

    Victor  .358

     

    Ellsb    .337

    Naps   .330

    Chiri   .316

    Salty   .295

     

    JBJ      .263

     

    S Drew .227

    Midd    .193

    Ross    .154

     




    Gomes has a ton of walks which is mostly how his OBP is so high. 42 PA 32 AB. 10BB and 6 Hits.. If he gets that bat going consistently, that OPS will rise to over .900.

     

    I suspect a few more names will have their OBP rise on this list as well. Salty will hang around where hes at. maybe get a little over .300. Drew should get somewhere around .350ish, give or take a few either way. Ells should be near.380 and naps should rise a little. carp and nava should come down a bit. papi too. Pedey could stay around .400.

    Come June its should be closer to reality.



    I really don't get why so many people see Drew as such a good offensive player. Sure, as compared to most SSs over the years, he's on the plus side, but where do you get this .350ish number from?

    He's only been over .333 once since his rookie season in 2006. Since 2009, he's only been over .320 once. Maybe Fenway can help some, but I'm thinking that .325 may be a stretch.

     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from craze4sox. Show craze4sox's posts

    Re: Haves and Haves Not

    In response to moonslav59's comment:

    In response to southpaw777's comment:

     

    In response to moonslav59's comment:

     

    10 hits and 4 BBs last night brought some guys up in OBP:

    Papi   .529

    Iggy   .476

    Carp   .462

    Nava  .426

    Pedey .404

    Gomes .381

    Victor  .358

     

    Ellsb    .337

    Naps   .330

    Chiri   .316

    Salty   .295

     

    JBJ      .263

     

    S Drew .227

    Midd    .193

    Ross    .154

     




    Gomes has a ton of walks which is mostly how his OBP is so high. 42 PA 32 AB. 10BB and 6 Hits.. If he gets that bat going consistently, that OPS will rise to over .900.

     

    I suspect a few more names will have their OBP rise on this list as well. Salty will hang around where hes at. maybe get a little over .300. Drew should get somewhere around .350ish, give or take a few either way. Ells should be near.380 and naps should rise a little. carp and nava should come down a bit. papi too. Pedey could stay around .400.

    Come June its should be closer to reality.

     



    I really don't get why so many people see Drew as such a good offensive player. Sure, as compared to most SSs over the years, he's on the plus side, but where do you get this .350ish number from?

     

    He's only been over .333 once since his rookie season in 2006. Since 2009, he's only been over .320 once. Maybe Fenway can help some, but I'm thinking that .325 may be a stretch.



    Drew has impressed me defensively, given the fact Iggy was really struggling the last couple of seasons and Ciriaco didn't have much ML experience it looked like we needed a SS this season that could get on OB a bit more.

    Our FO could have covered the DH, 3B and 1B back up positions by signing Youk again.  Now guys like Gomes, Drew and Middy are all struggling badly while Ciriaco is our only real choice at 3B.  Unfortunately we may need to trade for another backup 3B/DH before Iggy gets another shot. 

     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Haves and Haves Not

    In response to craze4sox's comment:

    In response to moonslav59's comment:

     

    In response to southpaw777's comment:

     

    In response to moonslav59's comment:

     

    10 hits and 4 BBs last night brought some guys up in OBP:

    Papi   .529

    Iggy   .476

    Carp   .462

    Nava  .426

    Pedey .404

    Gomes .381

    Victor  .358

     

    Ellsb    .337

    Naps   .330

    Chiri   .316

    Salty   .295

     

    JBJ      .263

     

    S Drew .227

    Midd    .193

    Ross    .154

     




    Gomes has a ton of walks which is mostly how his OBP is so high. 42 PA 32 AB. 10BB and 6 Hits.. If he gets that bat going consistently, that OPS will rise to over .900.

     

    I suspect a few more names will have their OBP rise on this list as well. Salty will hang around where hes at. maybe get a little over .300. Drew should get somewhere around .350ish, give or take a few either way. Ells should be near.380 and naps should rise a little. carp and nava should come down a bit. papi too. Pedey could stay around .400.

    Come June its should be closer to reality.

     



    I really don't get why so many people see Drew as such a good offensive player. Sure, as compared to most SSs over the years, he's on the plus side, but where do you get this .350ish number from?

     

    He's only been over .333 once since his rookie season in 2006. Since 2009, he's only been over .320 once. Maybe Fenway can help some, but I'm thinking that .325 may be a stretch.

     



    Drew has impressed me defensively, given the fact Iggy was really struggling the last couple of seasons and Ciriaco didn't have much ML experience it looked like we needed a SS this season that could get on OB a bit more.

     

    Our FO could have covered the DH, 3B and 1B back up positions by signing Youk again.  Now guys like Gomes, Drew and Middy are all struggling badly while Ciriaco is our only real choice at 3B.  Unfortunately we may need to trade for another backup 3B/DH before Iggy gets another shot. 



    Gomes is over .380. If that's struggling, then what is Drew doing?

    I wonder if Drew can play 3B.

     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from craze4sox. Show craze4sox's posts

    Re: Haves and Haves Not

    In response to moonslav59's comment:

    In response to craze4sox's comment:

     

    In response to moonslav59's comment:

     

    In response to southpaw777's comment:

     

    In response to moonslav59's comment:

     

    10 hits and 4 BBs last night brought some guys up in OBP:

    Papi   .529

    Iggy   .476

    Carp   .462

    Nava  .426

    Pedey .404

    Gomes .381

    Victor  .358

     

    Ellsb    .337

    Naps   .330

    Chiri   .316

    Salty   .295

     

    JBJ      .263

     

    S Drew .227

    Midd    .193

    Ross    .154

     




    Gomes has a ton of walks which is mostly how his OBP is so high. 42 PA 32 AB. 10BB and 6 Hits.. If he gets that bat going consistently, that OPS will rise to over .900.

     

    I suspect a few more names will have their OBP rise on this list as well. Salty will hang around where hes at. maybe get a little over .300. Drew should get somewhere around .350ish, give or take a few either way. Ells should be near.380 and naps should rise a little. carp and nava should come down a bit. papi too. Pedey could stay around .400.

    Come June its should be closer to reality.

     



    I really don't get why so many people see Drew as such a good offensive player. Sure, as compared to most SSs over the years, he's on the plus side, but where do you get this .350ish number from?

     

    He's only been over .333 once since his rookie season in 2006. Since 2009, he's only been over .320 once. Maybe Fenway can help some, but I'm thinking that .325 may be a stretch.

     



    Drew has impressed me defensively, given the fact Iggy was really struggling the last couple of seasons and Ciriaco didn't have much ML experience it looked like we needed a SS this season that could get on OB a bit more.

     

    Our FO could have covered the DH, 3B and 1B back up positions by signing Youk again.  Now guys like Gomes, Drew and Middy are all struggling badly while Ciriaco is our only real choice at 3B.  Unfortunately we may need to trade for another backup 3B/DH before Iggy gets another shot. 

     



    Gomes is over .380. If that's struggling, then what is Drew doing?

     

    I wonder if Drew can play 3B.



    True, Gomes is at least getting on base but has supplied us with 0 power.  Something I think we were hoping for when signing him and may still happen.

     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from southpaw777. Show southpaw777's posts

    Re: Haves and Haves Not

    In response to moonslav59's comment:

    In response to southpaw777's comment:

     

    In response to moonslav59's comment:

     

    10 hits and 4 BBs last night brought some guys up in OBP:

    Papi   .529

    Iggy   .476

    Carp   .462

    Nava  .426

    Pedey .404

    Gomes .381

    Victor  .358

     

    Ellsb    .337

    Naps   .330

    Chiri   .316

    Salty   .295

     

    JBJ      .263

     

    S Drew .227

    Midd    .193

    Ross    .154

     




    Gomes has a ton of walks which is mostly how his OBP is so high. 42 PA 32 AB. 10BB and 6 Hits.. If he gets that bat going consistently, that OPS will rise to over .900.

     

    I suspect a few more names will have their OBP rise on this list as well. Salty will hang around where hes at. maybe get a little over .300. Drew should get somewhere around .350ish, give or take a few either way. Ells should be near.380 and naps should rise a little. carp and nava should come down a bit. papi too. Pedey could stay around .400.

    Come June its should be closer to reality.

     



    I really don't get why so many people see Drew as such a good offensive player. Sure, as compared to most SSs over the years, he's on the plus side, but where do you get this .350ish number from?

     

    He's only been over .333 once since his rookie season in 2006. Since 2009, he's only been over .320 once. Maybe Fenway can help some, but I'm thinking that .325 may be a stretch.




    2008-2010 is what I use because 2011 and 2012 are incomplete years. .333, ,.320, .352. Its not a stretch to think he could be .340-.350. Thats why I said .350ish. I guess if Im being a little more direct I would guess .340-.350.

    You contunue to use his 2 half season in 11' and 12'...If you look in 2011 he had a very nice OBP and went into a little slump before the injury. all the way into mid june he was around .370ish and then slowly started slumping...In 2012 he was just trying to get everything back from being off for a year.

    I didnt think he would end the year at .370 in 2011, but I also figured .350ish was closer to where it would be if I had to guess since the year before he was at .352.

    So an OBP of .340-.350 is certainly a reasonable estimate.

     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Haves and Haves Not

    I really don't get why so many people see Drew as such a good offensive player. Sure, as compared to most SSs over the years, he's on the plus side, but where do you get this .350ish number from?

     

    He's only been over .333 once since his rookie season in 2006. Since 2009, he's only been over .320 once. Maybe Fenway can help some, but I'm thinking that .325 may be a stretch.

     




    2008-2010 is what I use because 2011 and 2012 are incomplete years. .333, ,.320, .352. Its not a stretch to think he could be .340-.350. Thats why I said .350ish. I guess if Im being a little more direct I would guess .340-.350.

     

    This is taking cherry-picking to an extreme. To take a player's 3 year span out of a hat like that is borderline absurd.

    Why throw out 2007?

    He wasn't hurt in 2011 until the injury and was off to a bad start. They are legitimate PAs that should be an indicator of what Drew is capable of.

     

    You contunue to use his 2 half season in 11' and 12'...If you look in 2011 he had a very nice OBP and went into a little slump before the injury. all the way into mid june he was around .370ish and then slowly started slumping...In 2012 he was just trying to get everything back from being off for a year.

    No, I looked at all his years since his rookie year and saw one season at .350...ONE! I am not cherry-picking. I'm fine with ignoring 2012.

    Drew's OBP from 2007-2011 (all healthy) was .328. It's .330 from 2006-2011.

    2007-2010: .332

    2006-2010: .332

    All of these time frames are just as legitimate as your chosen one, and noe indicate a strong potential for .350. 

    Even your cherry-picked timeframe of 2008-2010 shows just a .335 OBP. I guess that's close enough to .340, but There is just no indication that he should improve in 2013 over what he was from 3 to 5 years ago as a healthy player entering his prime.

     

    I didnt think he would end the year at .370 in 2011, but I also figured .350ish was closer to where it would be if I had to guess since the year before he was at .352.

    He had a .317 OBP in 354 PAs in 2011, He'd have to have had a .390 OBP for his last 320 PAs in 2011 to end up at .352. While that might be possible, it was highly unlikely. In 2010, he had a .356 2nd half OBP. That would have brought him to about .335 had he repeated 2010- his best career year.

    So an OBP of .340-.350 is certainly a reasonable estimate.

    It's a possible super high end possibility, but is not a defendable or realistic estimate.

     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Haves and Haves Not

    11 hits and 4 BBs....

     

    Papi   .571

    Iggy   .476

    Carp   .471

    Nava  .425

    Pedey .408

    Gomes .381

    Victor  .358

     

    Ellsb    .330

    Naps   .326

    Chiri   .316

    Salty   .308

     

    JBJ      .263

     

    S Drew .229

    Midd     .195

    Ross    .154

     

     

     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Haves and Haves Not

    Some interesting names on the top OPS guys in MLB with 70+ PAs:

    1) Chris Davis  1.233

    2) J Upton         1.200

    4) Choo

    5) M Reynolds

    6) Lucas Duda

    8) Jed Lowrie

    9) Cuddyer

    11) Coco Crisp

    16) Seth Smith

    18) Nava

    22) V Wells

    28) A Gon

    38) A Gordon

    39) De Jesus

    43) Napoli

    48) Swisher

    50) Crawford

    54) B Butler

    65) B Moss

    66) Pujols

    75) Ellsbury

    76) M Morse

    80) Pedey

    116) Victorino

    139) Overbay

    141) Smoak

    150) Middlebrooks

    152) G Stanton

    155) A LaRoche

    157) Reddick

    159) Scutaro

    162) BJ Upton

    166) VMart

    173) Keppinger

    174) Aaron Hicks in last place with a .315 OPS.

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from georom4. Show georom4's posts

    Re: Haves and Haves Not

    Napoli can hit...even with half a hip or whatever malady he's suffering from....i dont care what the staTS SAY

     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Haves and Haves Not

    In response to georom4's comment:

    Napoli can hit...even with half a hip or whatever malady he's suffering from....i dont care what the staTS SAY



    Well the "stats" say he's been about a top 20% hitter thus far.

     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Haves and Haves Not

    In response to softlaw2's comment:

    It's import is the same as an 11 day sample. In a 162 game season, individual offensive aggregate stats mean nothing. 10 weeks of plate work into a player's season is the time to take them seriously.  



    But, somehow the ST sample size was monumental in your judgements. 

    The 1 game Drew sample size was enough for you to complain and compare him to Iggy's tiny and IF hit influenced bloated offensive numbers.

    The countless other Sox players bashed over 1 game or one week sample sizes over the years.

    For once, try to keep your criteria the same for the 37 Sox player you despise and the 3 you love.

     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Haves and Haves Not

    Sox OPS

    Carp 1.529

    Ortiz 1.395

    Iggy  1.026

    Nava  .919

    Naps  .909

    Ross  .818

    Pedey.792

    Ellsb  .769

    Salty .765

    Chiri  .737

    Vict   .677

    Midd  .634

    Gomes .605

    Drew   .420

    JBJ     .392

     

     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from mef429. Show mef429's posts

    Re: Haves and Haves Not

    In response to moonslav59's comment:

    In response to softlaw2's comment:

     

    It's import is the same as an 11 day sample. In a 162 game season, individual offensive aggregate stats mean nothing. 10 weeks of plate work into a player's season is the time to take them seriously.  

     



    But, somehow the ST sample size was monumental in your judgements. 

     

    The 1 game Drew sample size was enough for you to complain and compare him to Iggy's tiny and IF hit influenced bloated offensive numbers.

    The countless other Sox players bashed over 1 game or one week sample sizes over the years.

    For once, try to keep your criteria the same for the 37 Sox player you despise and the 3 you love.



    don't gorget the 1AB sample size he used to say Carp sucked.....

     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Haves and Haves Not

    don't gorget the 1AB sample size he used to say Carp sucked.....

    don't forget the one pitch sample size he used to say someone sucked...

     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Haves and Haves Not

    Last 14 days....

    Carp  1.441

    Papi   1.422

    Naps   1.121

    Ross     .980

    Pedey  .828

    Ells      .785

    Salty   .747

    Nava   .728

    Chir    ,646

    Vict     .563

    Gomes .561

    Midd     .545

    Drew    .536

     

    last 7 days...

    Ross   1.750

    Chir    1.500

    Papi    1.447

    Naps   1.154

    Pedey    .944

    MIdd      .941

    Salty      .842

    Carp       .804

    Drew      .746

    Ells          .690

    Nava       .638

    Vict         .523

    Gomes    .473

     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Haves and Haves Not

    @ TOR Lester vs Morrow

    @ TOR Buch vs Buehrle

    @ TOR Demp vs Happ

    @ TEX Doub vs Holland

    @ TEX Lackey vs ???

    @ TEX Lester vs ???

    ...then, home for 4 against MN and 3 vs TB before going on a long 9 game road trip (TB, MN, CWS).

     
Sections
Shortcuts

Share