HELLO! THEO...GET A NEW CATCHER!

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from majorleague. Show majorleague's posts

    Re: HELLO! THEO...GET A NEW CATCHER!

    Hill55, nice suggestion for the radar.

    Rang, I would like to compliment you on an excellent thread.
     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from tom-uk. Show tom-uk's posts

    Re: HELLO! THEO...GET A NEW CATCHER!

    With their offensive firepower, the Red Sox should not care whether their defensively adept catcher hits .210.


    Hey Hill I respectfully disagree a bit.  Every position is based on value.  Of course I think the team make up/payroll needs a balance.  For a big market team you will draft at the bottom , so you will need more FAs to remain a contender.  Because FAs come at a premium having some homegrown cheaper players is a necessity.

    But when looking at the skill sets of each individual, value is value.  The Sox have a relatively cheap catching tandem, and the performance will probably end up being fairly commensurate.  If a player like VMart provides value by putting up say a 140 OPS+ and poor but not terrible D, the team would not suffer.

     Imagine a team like Seattle 2010. Should the Seattle FO have cared if they had an all bat no glove catcher?   Would that have balanced the team.

    Considering that the average American League catcher this season has hit .211 with a .290 on-base percentage and .359 slugging percentage. A .210 BA,  defensively adept catcher would be of great value,because he would be above average. The pertinent question is how much he would cost to fit in the team payroll.
     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from redsoxdirtdog. Show redsoxdirtdog's posts

    Re: HELLO! THEO...GET A NEW CATCHER!

    Hold the presses!!!  I actually partially agree with majorleague..... 

    I must be sick....  :)

    LOVE the A-Gon deal !!!!  HE will come to personify the Red Sox for years to come.......

    V-Mart???   Wish we had kept him???  His RH bat would have been sweet in this lineup...... His D?????  Could have eventually taken over for Big Papi at DH

    Crawford Deal!?!?!?   I was ecstatic when we made the deal...........
    *******  Crawford will more than earn his keep here for years to come..........
    If we don't keep Els. for the long term :(:(:(:(:(  Crawford will be key!!!!

    V-Mart vs. Crawford NOT MUTUALLY EXCLUSIVE!!!!!!!!!!

    I get the $ & cents of it, but I really wish we had done all 3 deals!!!

     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from maxbialystock. Show maxbialystock's posts

    Re: HELLO! THEO...GET A NEW CATCHER!

    In Response to Re: HELLO! THEO...GET A NEW CATCHER!:
    [QUOTE]Taking 3 in Yankee stadium was a joyous sign! It totally made my weekend and in reference to your question I certainly agree that as the pitching staff puts up better numbers it's a good sign. We should be putting up great numbers though with one of the most expensive pitching staffs in baseball.  Right now though we are still 12th in the AL in pitching, just ahead of the Twins and Orioles. 12th. Did anyone notice Buchholz putting his head down to think between each pitch. He's calling his own pitches and just waiting for the catcher to put the right finger down. Most pitchers must be thinking about what they want to throw next right? I would think that few mlb level pitches let the catcher take that totally out of their hands. They have a game plan before the game starts and generally they work a pre organized plan.
    Posted by Boomerangsdotcom[/QUOTE]

    Buchholz did fine Friday night with Salty.  So has Matsuzaka this year, off and on. 

    The 12th best ERA is misleading from two perspectives.  First, it's mostly the result of all thos horrific games early in the season, plus Lackey at 8.05, plus the infamous Wheeler and Jenks.  The current pitchers are better, except for Lackey.  The other thing is that the Sox are in low 4's for ERA.  If the Sox lop off just .5 from the team ERA of 4.27, they would be 5th best in the AL. 
     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from harness. Show harness's posts

    Re: HELLO! THEO...GET A NEW CATCHER!

    In Response to Re: HELLO! THEO...GET A NEW CATCHER!:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: HELLO! THEO...GET A NEW CATCHER! : Buchholz did fine Friday night with Salty.  So has Matsuzaka this year, off and on.  The 12th best ERA is misleading from two perspectives.  First, it's mostly the result of all thos horrific games early in the season, plus Lackey at 8.05, plus the infamous Wheeler and Jenks.  The current pitchers are better, except for Lackey.  The other thing is that the Sox are in low 4's for ERA.  If the Sox lop off just .5 from the team ERA of 4.27, they would be 5th best in the AL. 
    Posted by maxbialystock[/QUOTE]


    You are way off. Dice has one start with Salty. He was crushed. Tito has had Tek catch him ever since.

    To 791: Please do not put words into my mouth. I never attribute it all to the catcher. Not ever. I am going by the data at hand. All data involving averages are flawed. You keep saying it (the variance) could very well be less. Of course it can be less. What you never acknowledge is: It could also be more!
     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from pelosireturns. Show pelosireturns's posts

    Re: HELLO! THEO...GET A NEW CATCHER!

    Boom, it's a not a matter of VMART over Salty. It's a matter of AGONE/CRAWFORD over Beltre/VMART. The idea is to replace production with production

    False! AGon was essential, but Crawford was not. It was AGon or Beltre, end of story. VMart could and should have been signed to catch, with a competent solid defensive backup catcher. VMart could have played the 5 or 10 games off that AGon will have to take but doesn't want to take off, plus another 25 to 30 reps at DH. That would be year one of a 4 year contract. Year 2 would be the same if Ortiz still has gas in the tank. 

    The contract on VMart was a perfect fit with Ortiz aging out. VMart would be 32 in year one, and 33 in year two, hardly too old unless you think that Varitek wasn't too old when he was catching full-time in his late 30's. Ortiz would have been 2 years, max, at which time the Red Sox would have had an excellent hitting starting DH in year 3 and 4 who also would be the backup catcher and first baseman.

    Crawford's contract was a joke, is a joke, and will always be a joke. Bellsbury was already in place for the next 3 years, with other lefty slap hitters deep on the farm. 

    Signing VMart would have allowed a smoothly timed trasition to the new full-time young catcher and for Ortiz to retire either this year or the end of next year when VMart would DH and catch part time to more than earn his 13 to 14M in the last 2 years of the deal.

    Theo made the silly mistake of falling for Crawford, I gave him the essential this winter move on AGon and how the Padres would sell for certain. Theo then went to Walmart for Salty, to cover for his lazy spending spree on Crawford. Getting Salty was fine, but going with Salty and Varitek was GM malfeasance and the very reason why the team started so pitifully. There is an adjustment period for pitcher pitching to any new catcher (Salty), as well as the fact that Salty does not currently have the offensive, throwing and blocking skills to handle an everday catcher role. Varitek is just an old washed up profile who, even though he can still provide marginal very part-time backup catching, there was no need to settle for that with the weakness at the position. 

    Salty should have started at AAA, VMart should have been signed, and a solid MLB ready defensive but weak hitting catcher should have been acquired. Varitek should have been told to retire, or be given the squatter's roster spot that Wakefield has, allowing for late inning pinch hitting moves via carrying a 3rd catcher. 

    The VMart contract fit perfectly, and had nothing to do with trading for AGon. Theo gets these silly ideas in his head and has too much money to play with without adult supervision. 

    Had Cameron moved in for Crawford, Mac and Kalish and Reddick been the outfield depth, VMart signed to the 4 year deal, Salty in AAA, a solid defensive catcher weak hitter been acquired, the Red Sox are likely a 104 wins or more team. 

    Crawford instead of VMart was the mistake, and a big time value and 2011 fit mistake. The fact that the current team is championship material doesn't change the fact that this move was stupidity, short and long term.    

    Theo has been an abject failure in not handling fan PR and moving on old washed up veterans. The squatters roster spots for these old veterans is GM malfeasance.



    Very nice summary. Softlaw does make sense.
     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from Boomerangsdotcom. Show Boomerangsdotcom's posts

    Re: HELLO! THEO...GET A NEW CATCHER!

    Hill55, I like Marson also. He even blocks the plate well. He hit a little in the minors and it wouldn't surprise me if he could hit .250 eventually but not with much power.

    But he is quick to 2nd with the throws and gives every indication of being a solid receiver. I'd take him in a heartbeat over either of our guys and he may well be available at a decent price. The best solution would be to slot him in Salty's roll.
     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from Boomerangsdotcom. Show Boomerangsdotcom's posts

    Re: HELLO! THEO...GET A NEW CATCHER!

    He does hit RH though, and he is a valuable backup guy in Cleveland and they are giving it a pretty good run so far this year. They probably are not anxious to sell.
    It is a viable target though for the Sox IMO also.
     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from Boomerangsdotcom. Show Boomerangsdotcom's posts

    Re: HELLO! THEO...GET A NEW CATCHER!

    Hill55...Nice touch on the Avatar tribute to Harmon Killebrew. He was a tremendous player I would think you are too young to remember but you are one knowledgeable BB fan!
     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from royf19. Show royf19's posts

    Re: HELLO! THEO...GET A NEW CATCHER!

    In theory, softy's analysis sounds good and to some extent, it's a reasonable viewpoint. However, the problem with signing Martinez and transitioning him to DH as Ortiz ages is this. Even if Martinez was the No. 1 catcher, how many games are you going to catch him? To me, it would only work if he can catch about 125 games. A-Gon will play about 160 games so Martinez will get only two or three games (if that) at 1B. Ortiz will play at least 145 games as DH, so there's 17 more games. So I don't see Martinez playing more than about 145 games -- maybe 150 if he pinch-hits some games. And that's fine. 

    But that scenario only works if he's catches 125 games. He's already been hurt this year in Detroit where he's just a backup. So I wonder if he'd be able to catch more than 100 games, and if that's the case and he gets the extra 20 games or so I mentioned above, are you really going to play him that kind of money to play 120 games? Where are you going to find another 20 games or so?

    Crawford was overpaid and I wasn't gung-ho about signing him like some were a couple of years ago when some posters were drooling to get him. However, he is an All-Star caliber player, and when all is said and done, I expect his production to be very good.

     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from Boomerangsdotcom. Show Boomerangsdotcom's posts

    Re: HELLO! THEO...GET A NEW CATCHER!

    I was basically saying last winter, let Ortiz go for the pick, save the $12.5 mil, use it to retain Martinez who is probably going to hit close to that level and give us a decent part time catching solution. Martinez would be catching more in Detroit but Avila is a good option there and it's just not necessary for VMart to catch as much in Detroit.

    Tek is catching at 39. Posada caught until he was 37. I was just asking for VMart to catch part time until he was 36. I offer that letting Ortiz go would have been controversial and most here would probably say in hindsight that it was a mistake. I think Martinez would have replaced most of Ortiz's offense though and supported a much more important position on the field. We would have been a better team with Martinez. We could have still added an Agon or retained Beltre and been just fine offensively. 

    I was never thinking of platooning Ortiz and Martinez at DH. One or the other had to go. I think the team would have been better overall if we kept Martinez. We could have paid every dime of Martinez's salary just from the Ortiz money. When Martinez was catching we could have had someone like Lowrie, Youk or Cameron DH. The players get some needed rest and recuperation time. We would have roster flexibility benefits. It was a better solution overall IMO.
     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from adam4522. Show adam4522's posts

    Re: HELLO! THEO...GET A NEW CATCHER!

    In Response to Re: HELLO! THEO...GET A NEW CATCHER!:
    [QUOTE]I was basically saying last winter, let Ortiz go for the pick, save the $12.5 mil, use it to retain Martinez who is probably going to hit close to that level and give us a decent part time catching solution. Martinez would be catching more in Detroit but Avila is a good option there and it's just not necessary for VMart to catch as much in Detroit. Tek is catching at 39. Posada caught until he was 37. I was just asking for VMart to catch part time until he was 36. I offer that letting Ortiz go would have been controversial and most here would probably say in hindsight that it was a mistake. I think Martinez would have replaced most of Ortiz's offense though and supported a much more important position on the field. We would have been a better team with Martinez. We could have still added an Agon or retained Beltre and been just fine offensively.  I was never thinking of platooning Ortiz and Martinez at DH. One or the other had to go. I think the team would have been better overall if we kept Martinez. We could have paid every dime of Martinez's salary just from the Ortiz money. When Martinez was catching we could have had someone like Lowrie, Youk or Cameron DH. The players get some needed rest and recuperation time. We would have roster flexibility benefits. It was a better solution overall IMO.
    Posted by Boomerangsdotcom[/QUOTE]

    I agree.  This was my take as well.  As much as I like papi...his position, or lack there of, severly limits the sox' options.  I would have not picked up papi's option, and spent the $ elsewhere.  Martin or Martinez were the better choice for defense and roster flexibility...
     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from hill55. Show hill55's posts

    Re: HELLO! THEO...GET A NEW CATCHER!

    In Response to Re: HELLO! THEO...GET A NEW CATCHER!:
    [QUOTE]Hill55...Nice touch on the Avatar tribute to Harmon Killebrew. He was a tremendous player I would think you are too young to remember but you are one knowledgeable BB fan!
    Posted by Boomerangsdotcom[/QUOTE]
    Boom, thanks for the compliment ... this forum has made most of us more knowledgeable.

    Harmon Killebrew was the first hero of my upper Midwest childhood. While on vacation in Minnesota in 1964, a family friend bought me a Twins cap and told me that Minnesota had a young team on the rise. The family friend died of a brain tumor less than a month later, so he never experienced the Twins' pennant run the following year. I turned 10 on the travel day between Games 2 and 3 of the thrilling 1965 World Series. Killebrew homered in the both ends of a doubleheader on August 28, 1966, at Chicago's old Comiskey Park in the my first trip to an MLB ballpark.

    My avatar on this forum is the avatar I've used for years for my fantasy baseball team (which has a name that is a hybrid between Harmon Killebrew and my somewhat similar surname).

    I guess this post belongs in the Harmon Killebrew thread.
     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from Boomerangsdotcom. Show Boomerangsdotcom's posts

    Re: HELLO! THEO...GET A NEW CATCHER!

    Hill55...all I remember was that every time he came up he scared the bejesus out of me. The guy was a class act though. We are almost exactly the same age by the way! Harmon could really crank them and he put up some great numbers in the 60s. Lots of tape measure HR.

    That was back when the game was dominated by pitching and he was putting up 40 HR season after season. The Redsox and Twins were rivals a lot during that era.

    Great avatar!
     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from Boomerangsdotcom. Show Boomerangsdotcom's posts

    Re: HELLO! THEO...GET A NEW CATCHER!

    I think it's time to start the official Bengie Molina watch!

    Look out, he's tieing the shoe laces on his spikes right about now!
     
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