Here's another debate for everyone

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from craze4sox. Show craze4sox's posts

    Re: Here's another debate for everyone

    In response to maxbialystock's comment:

    Answering the OP is easy.  There is no way in the world a change of catchers can make that big a difference.  No way.  Let's not forget, for example, the bench is calling the pitches.  I think last night was a combination of things--control issues, umpire squeezing the strike zone, not a very good mix of pitches, a changeup that was too hittable, etc.  On another thread I even asked whether Webster was tipping his pitches.  Why?  Because almost everyone in the Twins lineup was hitting him hard.  Even on fly outs, they hit the ball hard. 

    I think Salty could have contributed to the bad night for Webster (and Doubront), but I have also seen him catch good games, so I give him a pass.  Not his hair, of course, just his catching.  Also, no pass on his hitting. 



    max, just suggesting our bench calls the pitches may open up another can of worms :)  Most fans say our pitchers hardly ever shake of Salty and I rarely see any starting catcher look to the dugout before calling pitches.  

    We don't have a prayer of getting a six time all star like McCann anyway as long as Atlanta stays in the race.  I have to respectively but completely disagree that a good all round catcher wouldn't make a huge difference on this club.

    We have Salty, Middy and Napoli with horrible SO to BB ratios.  McCann would be a major improvement over Salty.  Forget last night and look at things like CERA, SO to BB ratio, CS and lack of common sense in some cases. 

     
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    Re: Here's another debate for everyone



    #1 McCann had a torn labrum which is a minor surgery and hes fine.

    http://espn.go.com/mlb/story/_/id/9244174/brian-mccann-atlanta-braves-set-come-dl-monday

    Let me educate a little further,

    #2 Offensively, McCann is only 29 with a career 351 OBP, 825 OPS and great SO to BB ratio.  This alone Salty will never have, my bet is he comes back strong.

    #3 Defensively, Brian is better period.  His arm is more accurate and he has better common sense/natural leadership ability.

    #4 His contract would be pro rated

    #5 He is a FA at the end of the year

     

     



    Tearing your labrum the way McCann did was ideed serious. It will take time to get back to his stellar 24% CS rate compared to saltys career 23%. The stat you always refer to. McCann has more PB and Salty caught Wake. Take away Wakes PB's and salty is obviously better at blocking balls. McCann is scary close to Saltys defensive stats, which you complain about all the time.

    And do you understand what the Braves would want for such a good catcher and let the sox pay his 10M, prorated, contract less than 2 months into the season? Yes, Please educate me.

    If salty is gone, Lavarnway would be a much better choiuce just on the financial aspect and the CS%. I dont suppose his defense is any worse either.

    Maybe Im wrong, but this looks more about you not liking Salty and wanting him gone than making the right move. You like offensive catchers, which is where McCann is better than Salty.



    Salty doesn't do anything better than McCann end probably never will.  I think you may be the one overlooking the facts.

     

     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from maxbialystock. Show maxbialystock's posts

    Re: Here's another debate for everyone

    crazesox, I never said Salty can't be improved upon because obviously he is doing his best to wear out his welcome.  I mean, the Sox FO flat out resurrected him after he was buried somewhere in Texas.  Right now I favor sending the corpse elsewhere.    I know nothing about McCann, but would not object to getting him. 

    I have definitely seen the Sox catchers look to the dugout for signals for the next pitch, Salty more than Ross.  That said, I am not an advocate of doing that, which is what Mike Scioscia does all the time. 

     
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    Re: Here's another debate for everyone

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    Their is a lot more to catching then CS. I didnt mean oppenents OBP or BA i meant his, as i said in almost all other ways salty is a better catcher besides CS. here is sox prospects break down on lavernways catching skills.

     

    "Rough overall catching skills. Limited range behind the dish and slow reactions. Tends to stab at offerings, and his catching hand drifts when framing pitches. Average blocking skills, he needs to improve how he controls balls bouncing out in front of him and the fluidity of his footwork. Has made ample strides with his catch-and-release mechanics since joining the organization. Hard worker dedicated to honing craft. Despite improvements, catching skills are still limited. Will need to increase defensive versatility. Projects as a DH/part-time catcher at the major league level."

    Salty is much better at framing pitchs and blocking balls, the only area in which lav excells at catcher is caught stealing, thats not enough for me to trade salty right now and hope that lav figures the rest out in the bigs.

     



    Give Lav the three years Salty has with Tek and Ross then maybe there would be a comparison.  Its not so much where Lav is just yet because we still have Ross.  Its more about what Salty doesn't have after getting a golden opportunity to work with a couple very intelligent veteran catchers.

     

     



    Sorry, but Vasquez will have long passed Lav by then. Im telling you, this kid is going to be very good. Keep Salty this year and if were out of it in July, trade him. If not, go with Salty/Ross combo and let Lav and Vasquez fight it out next year. I bet you will like Vasquez' catching skills much much better tha, Lavarnways and his bat isnt bad either. Vaquez reminds me so much of yadier Molina in a lot of ways.

     

     



    You are talking about a kid in the very low level of the minors in Vasquez, anything can happen between now and the time he hits the majors to change how some feel, it happens all the time.   Salty's BA is 253 with a 330 obp I say package him now when his stock is best, then bring up Lav or trade for McCann or another vet. to help Ross.

     

    I would bet my paycheck our lineup doesn't do any worse without Salty if Lav replaces him, while our lineup and staff would probably be much better with McCann and Ross. 

     




    Why would we want to get McCann (and give up what it would take to get him) when we have three good catching prospects already in our system? Thats not smart management.

     

     



    #1 McCann had a torn labrum which is a minor surgery and hes fine.

    http://espn.go.com/mlb/story/_/id/9244174/brian-mccann-atlanta-braves-set-come-dl-monday

    Let me educate a little further,

    #2 Offensively, McCann is only 29 with a career 351 OBP, 825 OPS and great SO to BB ratio.  This alone Salty will never have, my bet is he comes back strong.

    #3 Defensively, Brian is better period.  His arm is more accurate and he has better common sense/natural leadership ability.

    #4 His contract would be pro rated

    #5 He is a FA at the end of the year

     

     



    Tearing your labrum the way McCann did was ideed serious. It will take time to get back to his stellar 24% CS rate compared to saltys career 23%. The stat you always refer to. McCann has more PB and Salty caught Wake. Take away Wakes PB's and salty is obviously better at blocking balls. McCann is scary close to Saltys defensive stats, which you complain about all the time.

    And do you understand what the Braves would want for such a good catcher and let the sox pay his 10M, prorated, contract less than 2 months into the season? Yes, Please educate me.

    If salty is gone, Lavarnway would be a much better choiuce just on the financial aspect and the CS%. I dont suppose his defense is any worse either.

    Maybe Im wrong, but this looks more about you not liking Salty and wanting him gone than making the right move. You like offensive catchers, which is where McCann is better than Salty.

     



    Salty doesn't do anything better than McCann end probably never will.  I think you may be the one overlooking the facts.

     




    Listen craze, I respect your opinion. You know that. But McCann is NOT that great defensively. Him and Salty are about the same. Average. You like offensive catchers, I could tell that long ago. McCann IS the better offensive catcher. No denying that, but all you have to do is look at the stats to know that they are about the same defensively. Salty has some better defensive stats, some are the same and some are below McCann. Either way, they are incredibly close defensively. Thats all Im sayin man.

     

     
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    Re: Here's another debate for everyone

    In response to maxbialystock's comment:

     

    crazesox, I never said Salty can't be improved upon because obviously he is doing his best to wear out his welcome.  I mean, the Sox FO flat out resurrected him after he was buried somewhere in Texas.  Right now I favor sending the corpse elsewhere.    I know nothing about McCann, but would not object to getting him. 

    I have definitely seen the Sox catchers look to the dugout for signals for the next pitch, Salty more than Ross.  That said, I am not an advocate of doing that, which is what Mike Scioscia does all the time. 

     



    max,

     

    If McCann returns to his old form I doubt we could ever pry him away but the guy can do everything well enough to help a club.  Y. Molina is another guy I love, SORRY, I just get frustrated with our FO and SC'S because this has been an unresolved issue since 07.

     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from RSF4Life234. Show RSF4Life234's posts

    Re: Here's another debate for everyone

    You keep telling people that they arnt looking at the stats craze but we are. Lav is only better then salty in one are defensively and that is caught sterling. Mcann has a 1 percent better caught stealing rate. This thread is about the defensive stats of a catcher then keep it that way. Like I said earlier I think it is unlikely that they bring up lav over salty. You are bringing up a worse defensive player not a superior one. Lav is a dh and possibly a part time catcher not a full time major league catcher, just look at his scouting report on defense that I posted earlier in the thread.

     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from craze4sox. Show craze4sox's posts

    Re: Here's another debate for everyone

     


    Listen craze, I respect your opinion. You know that. But McCann is NOT that great defensively. Him and Salty are about the same. Average. You like offensive catchers, I could tell that long ago. McCann IS the better offensive catcher. No denying that, but all you have to do is look at the stats to know that they are about the same defensively. Salty has some better defensive stats, some are the same and some are below McCann. Either way, they are incredibly close defensively. Thats all Im sayin man.

    [/QUOTE]


    McCann is an intelligent catcher southpaw that rarely ever hurt his club in any way until the injuries.  I think Salty lacks natural talent and commen sense in some cases.  His learning curve may have hit it's ceiling.

     
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    Re: Here's another debate for everyone

    In response to RSF4Life234's comment:

    You keep telling people that they arnt looking at the stats craze but we are. Lav is only better then salty in one are defensively and that is caught sterling. Mcann has a 1 percent better caught stealing rate. This thread is about the defensive stats of a catcher then keep it that way. Like I said earlier I think it is unlikely that they bring up lav over salty. You are bringing up a worse defensive player not a superior one. Lav is a dh and possibly a part time catcher not a full time major league catcher, just look at his scouting report on defense that I posted earlier in the thread.



    I didn't say Lav is better than Salty but feel he would be adequate and possibly learn things much quicker.  Salty has been mentored by Tek and nor Ross while Lav takes what our FO gives him.  Of course there will be issues but Ross would also be doing a lot of the catching which in itself is better than Salty, especially with the staff.

     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from southpaw777. Show southpaw777's posts

    Re: Here's another debate for everyone

    In response to craze4sox's comment:

     

     


    Listen craze, I respect your opinion. You know that. But McCann is NOT that great defensively. Him and Salty are about the same. Average. You like offensive catchers, I could tell that long ago. McCann IS the better offensive catcher. No denying that, but all you have to do is look at the stats to know that they are about the same defensively. Salty has some better defensive stats, some are the same and some are below McCann. Either way, they are incredibly close defensively. Thats all Im sayin man.

     




    McCann is an intelligent catcher southpaw that rarely ever hurt his club in any way until the injuries.  I think Salty lacks natural talent and commen sense in some cases.  His learning curve may have hit it's ceiling.

     

    [/QUOTE]


    They are both pretty much what they are, average defensive catchers. The stats dont lie craze. McCann has probably hurt his team a few times too, like Salty. Hes never ever been talked about when it comes to defense, only offense. Thats fine, but thats who he is. There are very few Buster Poseys and Yadier Molinas, solid 2 way catchers who are well above average on both offense and defense.

    Overall, McCann is the better catcher over Salty because OF his offense. Neither are bad behind the plate, but McCann is more reliable with the bat.

    Personally, I dont think Salty is hurting us on defense to the point where he needs to be replaced. Hes hitting better this year too. Changing catchers with basically a rookie, would be a mistake IMO.

     
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    Re: Here's another debate for everyone

    In response to southpaw777's comment:

     

    In response to craze4sox's comment:

     

     


    Listen craze, I respect your opinion. You know that. But McCann is NOT that great defensively. Him and Salty are about the same. Average. You like offensive catchers, I could tell that long ago. McCann IS the better offensive catcher. No denying that, but all you have to do is look at the stats to know that they are about the same defensively. Salty has some better defensive stats, some are the same and some are below McCann. Either way, they are incredibly close defensively. Thats all Im sayin man.

     




    McCann is an intelligent catcher southpaw that rarely ever hurt his club in any way until the injuries.  I think Salty lacks natural talent and commen sense in some cases.  His learning curve may have hit it's ceiling.

     

     




    They are both pretty much what they are, average defensive catchers. The stats dont lie craze. McCann has probably hurt his team a few times too, like Salty. Hes never ever been talked about when it comes to defense, only offense. Thats fine, but thats who he is. There are very few Buster Poseys and Yadier Molinas, solid 2 way catchers who are well above average on both offense and defense.

     

    Overall, McCann is the better catcher over Salty because OF his offense. Neither are bad behind the plate, but McCann is more reliable with the bat.

    Personally, I dont think Salty is hurting us on defense to the point where he needs to be replaced. Hes hitting better this year too. Changing catchers with basically a rookie, would be a mistake IMO.

    [/QUOTE]


    Maybe southpaw but with Ross and the fact most of our pitchers, or staff already know what to throw a batter helps.  With Lav it would be more positioning and blocking pitches, he already has a more accurate arm and quicker release.  If Ross went on the DL for any length of time it may be a different story but Lav has caught and been around some of the staff.  I wouldn't consider him a rookie.

    As far as McCann goes he is a six time "all star" and only 29.  Tek hit and called a game better than Salty and never came close to achieving that.   Its not just Brians offense that got him there, the he guy is a pretty solid leader.  I do agree Salty is blocking the plate better, the offense?  The last two games has made a difference in his stats, hopefully he can keep them up.

     
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    Re: Here's another debate for everyone

    In response to craze4sox's comment:

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    Listen craze, I respect your opinion. You know that. But McCann is NOT that great defensively. Him and Salty are about the same. Average. You like offensive catchers, I could tell that long ago. McCann IS the better offensive catcher. No denying that, but all you have to do is look at the stats to know that they are about the same defensively. Salty has some better defensive stats, some are the same and some are below McCann. Either way, they are incredibly close defensively. Thats all Im sayin man.

     




    McCann is an intelligent catcher southpaw that rarely ever hurt his club in any way until the injuries.  I think Salty lacks natural talent and commen sense in some cases.  His learning curve may have hit it's ceiling.

     

     




    They are both pretty much what they are, average defensive catchers. The stats dont lie craze. McCann has probably hurt his team a few times too, like Salty. Hes never ever been talked about when it comes to defense, only offense. Thats fine, but thats who he is. There are very few Buster Poseys and Yadier Molinas, solid 2 way catchers who are well above average on both offense and defense.

     

    Overall, McCann is the better catcher over Salty because OF his offense. Neither are bad behind the plate, but McCann is more reliable with the bat.

    Personally, I dont think Salty is hurting us on defense to the point where he needs to be replaced. Hes hitting better this year too. Changing catchers with basically a rookie, would be a mistake IMO.




    Maybe southpaw but with Ross and the fact most of our pitchers, or staff already know what to throw a batter helps.  With Lav it would be more positioning and blocking pitches, he already has a more accurate arm and quicker release.  If Ross went on the DL for any length of time it may be a different story but Lav has caught and been around some of the staff.  I wouldn't consider him a rookie.

    As far as McCann goes he is a six time "all star" and only 29.  Tek hit and called a game better than Salty and never came close to achieving that.   Its not just Brians offense that got him there, the he guy is pretty solid.

    [/QUOTE]


    Allstars are picked by fans mostly for their offense for position players. Its a great accomplishment to have 6 AS appearences. Not trying to downplay that at all. But it is what it is.  Im not saying hes a bad catcher in any way shape or form craze, Im just saying hes more of an offensive one. I agreeing that hes better than salty too.

    With Lav, thats why I said hes Basically a rookie, because he has a month or so and some ST games with some of our starters. Thats not much at all to have any real idea.

    I think we see a move at that position if were out of it at the deadline or next year with what we have in the organization already. If Im wrong, ill let you serve me a big heaping plate of crow Wink

     
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    Re: Here's another debate for everyone

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    Listen craze, I respect your opinion. You know that. But McCann is NOT that great defensively. Him and Salty are about the same. Average. You like offensive catchers, I could tell that long ago. McCann IS the better offensive catcher. No denying that, but all you have to do is look at the stats to know that they are about the same defensively. Salty has some better defensive stats, some are the same and some are below McCann. Either way, they are incredibly close defensively. Thats all Im sayin man.

     




    McCann is an intelligent catcher southpaw that rarely ever hurt his club in any way until the injuries.  I think Salty lacks natural talent and commen sense in some cases.  His learning curve may have hit it's ceiling.

     

     




    They are both pretty much what they are, average defensive catchers. The stats dont lie craze. McCann has probably hurt his team a few times too, like Salty. Hes never ever been talked about when it comes to defense, only offense. Thats fine, but thats who he is. There are very few Buster Poseys and Yadier Molinas, solid 2 way catchers who are well above average on both offense and defense.

     

    Overall, McCann is the better catcher over Salty because OF his offense. Neither are bad behind the plate, but McCann is more reliable with the bat.

    Personally, I dont think Salty is hurting us on defense to the point where he needs to be replaced. Hes hitting better this year too. Changing catchers with basically a rookie, would be a mistake IMO.

     




    Maybe southpaw but with Ross and the fact most of our pitchers, or staff already know what to throw a batter helps.  With Lav it would be more positioning and blocking pitches, he already has a more accurate arm and quicker release.  If Ross went on the DL for any length of time it may be a different story but Lav has caught and been around some of the staff.  I wouldn't consider him a rookie.

     

    As far as McCann goes he is a six time "all star" and only 29.  Tek hit and called a game better than Salty and never came close to achieving that.   Its not just Brians offense that got him there, the he guy is pretty solid.




    Allstars are picked by fans mostly for their offense for position players. Its a great accomplishment to have 6 AS appearences. Not trying to downplay that at all. But it is what it is.  Im not saying hes a bad catcher in any way shape or form craze, Im just saying hes more of an offensive one. I agreeing that hes better than salty too.

    With Lav, thats why I said hes Basically a rookie, because he has a month or so and some ST games with some of our starters. Thats not much at all to have any real idea.

    I think we see a move at that position if were out of it at the deadline or next year with what we have in the organization already. If Im wrong, ill let you serve me a big heaping plate of crow Wink

    [/QUOTE]

    Fair enough southpaw but I have never been one to gloat on a prediction coming true so there won't be any plate of crow :)  Most of us have strong opinions on different subjects and "like" on others which makes for friendly and respectful debate.

     
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    Re: Here's another debate for everyone

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    Listen craze, I respect your opinion. You know that. But McCann is NOT that great defensively. Him and Salty are about the same. Average. You like offensive catchers, I could tell that long ago. McCann IS the better offensive catcher. No denying that, but all you have to do is look at the stats to know that they are about the same defensively. Salty has some better defensive stats, some are the same and some are below McCann. Either way, they are incredibly close defensively. Thats all Im sayin man.

     




    McCann is an intelligent catcher southpaw that rarely ever hurt his club in any way until the injuries.  I think Salty lacks natural talent and commen sense in some cases.  His learning curve may have hit it's ceiling.

     

     




    They are both pretty much what they are, average defensive catchers. The stats dont lie craze. McCann has probably hurt his team a few times too, like Salty. Hes never ever been talked about when it comes to defense, only offense. Thats fine, but thats who he is. There are very few Buster Poseys and Yadier Molinas, solid 2 way catchers who are well above average on both offense and defense.

     

    Overall, McCann is the better catcher over Salty because OF his offense. Neither are bad behind the plate, but McCann is more reliable with the bat.

    Personally, I dont think Salty is hurting us on defense to the point where he needs to be replaced. Hes hitting better this year too. Changing catchers with basically a rookie, would be a mistake IMO.

     




    Maybe southpaw but with Ross and the fact most of our pitchers, or staff already know what to throw a batter helps.  With Lav it would be more positioning and blocking pitches, he already has a more accurate arm and quicker release.  If Ross went on the DL for any length of time it may be a different story but Lav has caught and been around some of the staff.  I wouldn't consider him a rookie.

     

    As far as McCann goes he is a six time "all star" and only 29.  Tek hit and called a game better than Salty and never came close to achieving that.   Its not just Brians offense that got him there, the he guy is pretty solid.

     




    Allstars are picked by fans mostly for their offense for position players. Its a great accomplishment to have 6 AS appearences. Not trying to downplay that at all. But it is what it is.  Im not saying hes a bad catcher in any way shape or form craze, Im just saying hes more of an offensive one. I agreeing that hes better than salty too.

     

    With Lav, thats why I said hes Basically a rookie, because he has a month or so and some ST games with some of our starters. Thats not much at all to have any real idea.

    I think we see a move at that position if were out of it at the deadline or next year with what we have in the organization already. If Im wrong, ill let you serve me a big heaping plate of crow Wink



    Fair enough southpaw but I have never been one to gloat on a prediction coming true so there won't be any plate of crow :)  Most of us have strong opinions on different subjects and "like" on others which makes for friendly and respectful debate.

    [/QUOTE]


    agreed. And I do enjoy a good debate with you  craze. You keep it respectful, yet stay passionate about your position and are willing to consider another viewpoint.

     
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    Re: Here's another debate for everyone

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    Listen craze, I respect your opinion. You know that. But McCann is NOT that great defensively. Him and Salty are about the same. Average. You like offensive catchers, I could tell that long ago. McCann IS the better offensive catcher. No denying that, but all you have to do is look at the stats to know that they are about the same defensively. Salty has some better defensive stats, some are the same and some are below McCann. Either way, they are incredibly close defensively. Thats all Im sayin man.

     




    McCann is an intelligent catcher southpaw that rarely ever hurt his club in any way until the injuries.  I think Salty lacks natural talent and commen sense in some cases.  His learning curve may have hit it's ceiling.

     

     




    They are both pretty much what they are, average defensive catchers. The stats dont lie craze. McCann has probably hurt his team a few times too, like Salty. Hes never ever been talked about when it comes to defense, only offense. Thats fine, but thats who he is. There are very few Buster Poseys and Yadier Molinas, solid 2 way catchers who are well above average on both offense and defense.

     

    Overall, McCann is the better catcher over Salty because OF his offense. Neither are bad behind the plate, but McCann is more reliable with the bat.

    Personally, I dont think Salty is hurting us on defense to the point where he needs to be replaced. Hes hitting better this year too. Changing catchers with basically a rookie, would be a mistake IMO.

     




    Maybe southpaw but with Ross and the fact most of our pitchers, or staff already know what to throw a batter helps.  With Lav it would be more positioning and blocking pitches, he already has a more accurate arm and quicker release.  If Ross went on the DL for any length of time it may be a different story but Lav has caught and been around some of the staff.  I wouldn't consider him a rookie.

     

    As far as McCann goes he is a six time "all star" and only 29.  Tek hit and called a game better than Salty and never came close to achieving that.   Its not just Brians offense that got him there, the he guy is pretty solid.

     




    Allstars are picked by fans mostly for their offense for position players. Its a great accomplishment to have 6 AS appearences. Not trying to downplay that at all. But it is what it is.  Im not saying hes a bad catcher in any way shape or form craze, Im just saying hes more of an offensive one. I agreeing that hes better than salty too.

     

    With Lav, thats why I said hes Basically a rookie, because he has a month or so and some ST games with some of our starters. Thats not much at all to have any real idea.

    I think we see a move at that position if were out of it at the deadline or next year with what we have in the organization already. If Im wrong, ill let you serve me a big heaping plate of crow Wink

     



    Fair enough southpaw but I have never been one to gloat on a prediction coming true so there won't be any plate of crow :)  Most of us have strong opinions on different subjects and "like" on others which makes for friendly and respectful debate.

     




    agreed. And I do enjoy a good debate with you  craze. You keep it respectful, yet stay passionate about your position and are willing to consider another viewpoint.

    [/QUOTE]

    I try, sometimes I go a bit overboard :)

     
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    Re: Here's another debate for everyone

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    In response to craze4sox's comment:

     

     


    Listen craze, I respect your opinion. You know that. But McCann is NOT that great defensively. Him and Salty are about the same. Average. You like offensive catchers, I could tell that long ago. McCann IS the better offensive catcher. No denying that, but all you have to do is look at the stats to know that they are about the same defensively. Salty has some better defensive stats, some are the same and some are below McCann. Either way, they are incredibly close defensively. Thats all Im sayin man.

     




    McCann is an intelligent catcher southpaw that rarely ever hurt his club in any way until the injuries.  I think Salty lacks natural talent and commen sense in some cases.  His learning curve may have hit it's ceiling.

     

     




    They are both pretty much what they are, average defensive catchers. The stats dont lie craze. McCann has probably hurt his team a few times too, like Salty. Hes never ever been talked about when it comes to defense, only offense. Thats fine, but thats who he is. There are very few Buster Poseys and Yadier Molinas, solid 2 way catchers who are well above average on both offense and defense.

     

    Overall, McCann is the better catcher over Salty because OF his offense. Neither are bad behind the plate, but McCann is more reliable with the bat.

    Personally, I dont think Salty is hurting us on defense to the point where he needs to be replaced. Hes hitting better this year too. Changing catchers with basically a rookie, would be a mistake IMO.

     




    Maybe southpaw but with Ross and the fact most of our pitchers, or staff already know what to throw a batter helps.  With Lav it would be more positioning and blocking pitches, he already has a more accurate arm and quicker release.  If Ross went on the DL for any length of time it may be a different story but Lav has caught and been around some of the staff.  I wouldn't consider him a rookie.

     

    As far as McCann goes he is a six time "all star" and only 29.  Tek hit and called a game better than Salty and never came close to achieving that.   Its not just Brians offense that got him there, the he guy is pretty solid.

     




    Allstars are picked by fans mostly for their offense for position players. Its a great accomplishment to have 6 AS appearences. Not trying to downplay that at all. But it is what it is.  Im not saying hes a bad catcher in any way shape or form craze, Im just saying hes more of an offensive one. I agreeing that hes better than salty too.

     

    With Lav, thats why I said hes Basically a rookie, because he has a month or so and some ST games with some of our starters. Thats not much at all to have any real idea.

    I think we see a move at that position if were out of it at the deadline or next year with what we have in the organization already. If Im wrong, ill let you serve me a big heaping plate of crow Wink

     



    Fair enough southpaw but I have never been one to gloat on a prediction coming true so there won't be any plate of crow :)  Most of us have strong opinions on different subjects and "like" on others which makes for friendly and respectful debate.

     

     




    agreed. And I do enjoy a good debate with you  craze. You keep it respectful, yet stay passionate about your position and are willing to consider another viewpoint.

     

     



    I try, sometimes I go a bit overboard :)

     

    [/QUOTE]


    Haha...we all do, but we are Red Sox fans. The good ones can keep it on a respectable level though. Enjoy the game tonight craze

     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from Joebreidey. Show Joebreidey's posts

    Re: Here's another debate for everyone

    In response to BMav's comment:

    In response to Joebreidey's comment:



    I'd prefer to go with OPSa.  

     

     




     

    Here is the last 3 seasons of OPSa......

    2013
    Jarrod Saltalamacchia--.731
    David Ross--------------.683

    2012
    Jarrod Saltalamacchia--.779
    Kelly Shoppach---------.688

    2011
    Jarrod Saltalamacchia--.746
    Jason Varitek-----------.662

     

    Combined, those are huge advantages. About a .85 OPS advantage the last 2.2 seasons. Thats like having our pitchers have to face a SS every single at bat when the backups caught[Tek-Shop-Ross] and our pitchers having to face a corner OF every single at bat for the last 2.2 seasons when Salty caught. Its actually worse then that since that difference is only .70 OPS between an average SS and average corner OF.

    Let me add that those numbers don't even take into account PB's, WP's, or the entire running game. Which is why I still prefer CERA. But OPSa is useful and its Salt in the wound for Salty.

     

     

     

     



    No doubt, but he is better offensively than average.  I'm not crazy about him, but it isn't like he's making a ton of money either.  I'd be fine letting him walk next year, and breaking in Vazquez.  But at $4.5M, he is probably still a decent bargain.

     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from SinceYaz. Show SinceYaz's posts

    Re: Here's another debate for everyone

    In response to Hfxsoxnut's comment:

    Up to the minute:

    Ross CERA 2.72

    Salty CERA 4.64

     




     

    Sarah! Sarah!

     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from craze4sox. Show craze4sox's posts

    Re: Here's another debate for everyone

    In response to Joebreidey's comment:

    In response to BMav's comment:

     

    In response to Joebreidey's comment:



    I'd prefer to go with OPSa.  

     

     




     

    Here is the last 3 seasons of OPSa......

    2013
    Jarrod Saltalamacchia--.731
    David Ross--------------.683

    2012
    Jarrod Saltalamacchia--.779
    Kelly Shoppach---------.688

    2011
    Jarrod Saltalamacchia--.746
    Jason Varitek-----------.662

     

    Combined, those are huge advantages. About a .85 OPS advantage the last 2.2 seasons. Thats like having our pitchers have to face a SS every single at bat when the backups caught[Tek-Shop-Ross] and our pitchers having to face a corner OF every single at bat for the last 2.2 seasons when Salty caught. Its actually worse then that since that difference is only .70 OPS between an average SS and average corner OF.

    Let me add that those numbers don't even take into account PB's, WP's, or the entire running game. Which is why I still prefer CERA. But OPSa is useful and its Salt in the wound for Salty.

     

     

     

     

     



    No doubt, but he is better offensively than average.  I'm not crazy about him, but it isn't like he's making a ton of money either.  I'd be fine letting him walk next year, and breaking in Vazquez.  But at $4.5M, he is probably still a decent bargain.

     



    I have probably been a bit too hard on Salty guys.  I think he is what he is and may never be the offensive player, or call a game like Tek.  His contract is reasonable as you mentioned, at least for the remainder on the year.  I'm personally just more comfortable withy Ross behind the plate but its obvious he can't play as many games as Salty. 

    I personally haven't seen Vasquez play yet which is a bit unusual considering what I do but certainly look forward to it.

     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from RSF4Life234. Show RSF4Life234's posts

    Re: Here's another debate for everyone

    In response to craze4sox's comment:

    In response to Joebreidey's comment:

     

    In response to BMav's comment:

     

    In response to Joebreidey's comment:



    I'd prefer to go with OPSa.  

     

     




     

    Here is the last 3 seasons of OPSa......

    2013
    Jarrod Saltalamacchia--.731
    David Ross--------------.683

    2012
    Jarrod Saltalamacchia--.779
    Kelly Shoppach---------.688

    2011
    Jarrod Saltalamacchia--.746
    Jason Varitek-----------.662

     

    Combined, those are huge advantages. About a .85 OPS advantage the last 2.2 seasons. Thats like having our pitchers have to face a SS every single at bat when the backups caught[Tek-Shop-Ross] and our pitchers having to face a corner OF every single at bat for the last 2.2 seasons when Salty caught. Its actually worse then that since that difference is only .70 OPS between an average SS and average corner OF.

    Let me add that those numbers don't even take into account PB's, WP's, or the entire running game. Which is why I still prefer CERA. But OPSa is useful and its Salt in the wound for Salty.

     

     

     

     

     



    No doubt, but he is better offensively than average.  I'm not crazy about him, but it isn't like he's making a ton of money either.  I'd be fine letting him walk next year, and breaking in Vazquez.  But at $4.5M, he is probably still a decent bargain.

     

     



    I have probably been a bit too hard on Salty guys.  I think he is what he is and may never be the offensive player, or call a game like Tek.  His contract is reasonable as you mentioned, at least for the remainder on the year.  I'm personally just more comfortable withy Ross behind the plate but its obvious he can't play as many games as Salty. 

     

    I personally haven't seen Vasquez play yet which is a bit unusual considering what I do but certainly look forward to it.



    Salty is decent for now, I don't know what the future holds for him but its probable that he at least catches for the rest of this year. He has shown steady improvement in the previous 2 seasons so I expect him to do the same this year as well. If he regressess or stays the same his days in Boston will be numbered for sure, but its way to early in the season to say definitivel.

     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from craze4sox. Show craze4sox's posts

    Re: Here's another debate for everyone

    In response to RSF4Life234's comment:

     

    In response to craze4sox's comment:

     

    In response to Joebreidey's comment:

     

    In response to BMav's comment:

     

    In response to Joebreidey's comment:



    I'd prefer to go with OPSa.  

     

     




     

    Here is the last 3 seasons of OPSa......

    2013
    Jarrod Saltalamacchia--.731
    David Ross--------------.683

    2012
    Jarrod Saltalamacchia--.779
    Kelly Shoppach---------.688

    2011
    Jarrod Saltalamacchia--.746
    Jason Varitek-----------.662

     

    Combined, those are huge advantages. About a .85 OPS advantage the last 2.2 seasons. Thats like having our pitchers have to face a SS every single at bat when the backups caught[Tek-Shop-Ross] and our pitchers having to face a corner OF every single at bat for the last 2.2 seasons when Salty caught. Its actually worse then that since that difference is only .70 OPS between an average SS and average corner OF.

    Let me add that those numbers don't even take into account PB's, WP's, or the entire running game. Which is why I still prefer CERA. But OPSa is useful and its Salt in the wound for Salty.

     

     

     

     

     



    No doubt, but he is better offensively than average.  I'm not crazy about him, but it isn't like he's making a ton of money either.  I'd be fine letting him walk next year, and breaking in Vazquez.  But at $4.5M, he is probably still a decent bargain.

     

     



    I have probably been a bit too hard on Salty guys.  I think he is what he is and may never be the offensive player, or call a game like Tek.  His contract is reasonable as you mentioned, at least for the remainder on the year.  I'm personally just more comfortable withy Ross behind the plate but its obvious he can't play as many games as Salty. 

     

    I personally haven't seen Vasquez play yet which is a bit unusual considering what I do but certainly look forward to it.

     



    Salty is decent for now, I don't know what the future holds for him but its probable that he at least catches for the rest of this year. He has shown steady improvement in the previous 2 seasons so I expect him to do the same this year as well. If he regressess or stays the same his days in Boston will be numbered for sure, but its way to early in the season to say definitivel.

     

     



    I believe in this team despite what happens the rest of the way.  There are a lot of players we can point a finger at and improvements that can still be made, yet we are still doing better than most expected. 

     

    We can make the playoffs but guys like Ells, Salty, Gomes, Ross, Middy, SP and pen need to contribute the rest of the way or we will be dead in the water.  Everyone needs to contribute and stay healthy, its the only chance this team has if our FO is content with not making any additional moves this season. 

     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from RSF4Life234. Show RSF4Life234's posts

    Re: Here's another debate for everyone

    In response to craze4sox's comment:

    In response to RSF4Life234's comment:

     

    In response to craze4sox's comment:

     

    In response to Joebreidey's comment:

     

    In response to BMav's comment:

     

    In response to Joebreidey's comment:



    I'd prefer to go with OPSa.  

     

     




     

    Here is the last 3 seasons of OPSa......

    2013
    Jarrod Saltalamacchia--.731
    David Ross--------------.683

    2012
    Jarrod Saltalamacchia--.779
    Kelly Shoppach---------.688

    2011
    Jarrod Saltalamacchia--.746
    Jason Varitek-----------.662

     

    Combined, those are huge advantages. About a .85 OPS advantage the last 2.2 seasons. Thats like having our pitchers have to face a SS every single at bat when the backups caught[Tek-Shop-Ross] and our pitchers having to face a corner OF every single at bat for the last 2.2 seasons when Salty caught. Its actually worse then that since that difference is only .70 OPS between an average SS and average corner OF.

    Let me add that those numbers don't even take into account PB's, WP's, or the entire running game. Which is why I still prefer CERA. But OPSa is useful and its Salt in the wound for Salty.

     

     

     

     

     



    No doubt, but he is better offensively than average.  I'm not crazy about him, but it isn't like he's making a ton of money either.  I'd be fine letting him walk next year, and breaking in Vazquez.  But at $4.5M, he is probably still a decent bargain.

     

     



    I have probably been a bit too hard on Salty guys.  I think he is what he is and may never be the offensive player, or call a game like Tek.  His contract is reasonable as you mentioned, at least for the remainder on the year.  I'm personally just more comfortable withy Ross behind the plate but its obvious he can't play as many games as Salty. 

     

    I personally haven't seen Vasquez play yet which is a bit unusual considering what I do but certainly look forward to it.

     



    Salty is decent for now, I don't know what the future holds for him but its probable that he at least catches for the rest of this year. He has shown steady improvement in the previous 2 seasons so I expect him to do the same this year as well. If he regressess or stays the same his days in Boston will be numbered for sure, but its way to early in the season to say definitivel.

     

     



    I believe in this team despite what happens the rest of the way.  There are a lot of players we can point a finger at and improvements that can still be made, yet we are still doing better than most expected. 

     

    We can make the playoffs but guys like Ells, Salty, Gomes, Ross, Middy, SP and pen need to contribute the rest of the way or we will be dead in the water.  Everyone needs to contribute and stay healthy, its the only chance this team has if our FO is content with not making any additional moves this season. 



    Agree totally, no matter what happens this season its going to be a great season no matta what. I'm just happy baseball is back!

     

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