Re: Here's What's Next...
posted at 8/26/2012 6:27 PM EDT
- andrewmitch
- Posts: 16690
- First: 6/4/2005
- Last: 9/23/2012
In Response to
Re: Here's What's Next...:
In Response to Re: Here's What's Next... : Despite their wild spending, the 2012 Dodgers would not be in the postseason if the season ended today.
Posted by hill55
I am sorry is the season over today?
Had the season ended last year in August would the Sox have won it all and the Rays never had made it? What about the Cards?
Silly Silly Logic.....
Re: Here's What's Next...
posted at 8/26/2012 6:28 PM EDT
- andrewmitch
- Posts: 16690
- First: 6/4/2005
- Last: 9/23/2012
In Response to
Re: Here's What's Next...:
In Response to Re: Here's What's Next... : This is very strange logic. Replace Gonzalez with Mike Napoli and Ortiz, a player already on the roster? Replace Crawford by re-signing a player currently in the lineup? Lost in the argument that we haven't been a playoff team the last three years is the fact that we've had about 10 times the number of injuries of the next closest team. How about we solve that problem before we start shipping out every player on the team?
Posted by slomag
Sure - let's solve the probelm by making sure no one gets hurt next year. After that, let's solve the oil crisis and world hunger. Then, I'd like to be able to fly on my own power......
Re: Here's What's Next...
posted at 8/26/2012 6:30 PM EDT
- slomag
- Posts: 3657
- First: 8/31/2009
- Last: 6/19/2013
One very good player we might be able to land is Carlos Gonzalez. The Rockies are not going to contend with LA and SF any time soon. It would take a lot of prospects to land him, but I'd rather see the Sox push for Cargo than Justin Upton. They could give him Adrian's number, so we don't have to buy new jerseys.
Re: Here's What's Next...
posted at 8/26/2012 6:31 PM EDT
In Response to
Here's What's Next...:
Other than Papi, we should look to trade all our players who will be Free Agents in 2013 if we can get a worthwhile prospect: Ross Padilla Loney Cook Pods
Posted by moonslav59
My view:
- Ross has the only significant trade value of the bunch, and it's pretty significant. He's also the only one I really want signed for 2013 and beyond so would be concerned trading him is a bad message. Maybe I'm being too delicate. But I think he can add big value to a 2013 rebuilding but competitive roster.
- I love Pods, and think he could fit into our 2013 team, but no one will pay anything for a 36-year old release monkey. [no disrespect intended, I have huge admiration for him in many ways]
- Padilla? Maybe a nibble or two, I think it's a sell (relatively) high situation but only for peanuts
- Coney/Look? Worst players in MLB? Not far off.
Re: Here's What's Next...
posted at 8/26/2012 6:31 PM EDT
- andrewmitch
- Posts: 16690
- First: 6/4/2005
- Last: 9/23/2012
In Response to
Re: Here's What's Next...:
In Response to Re: Here's What's Next... : Lee is definitely an improvement over Beckett, but we'd be paying $100M for years 34 - 37. Assuming full health and no decline, we're getting even value, but what are the chances of that? It also makes for a lefty-heavy rotation in a park that calls Fenway its home. Napoli isn't close to Gonzalez offensively or defensively. And Kalish probably needs to show something more at AAA before you pencil him into the starting lineup. This would add about $40M to the payroll, which is a little less than what we had before. But the team is not nearly as talented. I give it 3 months before you're complaining about these contracts.
Posted by slomag
It's not $40 Million More
CC + AG + JB = 59
CL + MN + RK= 39
You saved $20 Million
Plus, you are looking at current year money........my contracts are up in 3 years........the old ones were still going in 5 or 6 years....
Finally, I never said Napoli would completely replace AG but with better pitching and some improvements in other places we accept the trade-off......It's all about trade-offs.......
Re: Here's What's Next...
posted at 8/26/2012 6:32 PM EDT
- slomag
- Posts: 3657
- First: 8/31/2009
- Last: 6/19/2013
In Response to
Re: Here's What's Next...:
In Response to Re: Here's What's Next... : Sure - let's solve the probelm by making sure no one gets hurt next year. After that, let's solve the oil crisis and world hunger. Then, I'd like to be able to fly on my own power......
Posted by andrewmitch
You're right - let's assume that a team we never actually saw all play together healthy, all at the same time, sucks. Let's blow it up and trade all the bad contracts, and start the rebuilding process by trading for a guy in his mid-thirties making $25M /year. By the way, Lee is owed that for four more years, not three. There's a buyout on that fourth year. It's $12.M.
This post has been removed.
Re: Here's What's Next...
posted at 8/26/2012 6:36 PM EDT
Just go away. please.
Re: Here's What's Next...
posted at 8/26/2012 6:39 PM EDT
- slomag
- Posts: 3657
- First: 8/31/2009
- Last: 6/19/2013
In Response to
Re: Here's What's Next...:
In Response to Re: Here's What's Next... : It's not $40 Million More CC + AG + JB = 59 CL + MN + RK= 39 You saved $20 Million Plus, you are looking at current year money........my contracts are up in 3 years........the old ones were still going in 5 or 6 years.... Finally, I never said Napoli would completely replace AG but with better pitching and some improvements in other places we accept the trade-off......It's all about trade-offs.......
Posted by andrewmitch
It's $40M more than our current payroll, after the trade (assuming $15M for Napoli). I don't think one of the best FAs in the market (in a terrible year) is going to sign a 3-year deal. And if you buy out Lee's fourth year, it will cost $12.5M.
Beckett only had 2 more years.
Re: Here's What's Next...
posted at 8/26/2012 6:44 PM EDT
- moonslav59
- Posts: 35071
- First: 9/27/2005
- Last: 6/20/2013
softy's just mad because he was wrong again several times on one move.
He said Punto "was untradable".
He said CC was untradable".
He no longer has the "$30M for 2 OF'ers" argument to rant on and on about.
He's scared they might extend the next Teddy...I mean, Jake.
He no longer can call Josh a fat, lazy union slug.
Re: Here's What's Next...
posted at 8/26/2012 6:52 PM EDT
- slomag
- Posts: 3657
- First: 8/31/2009
- Last: 6/19/2013
One thing we're going to have going for us next year is that Xander Bogaerts is going to jump considerably in the prospect rankings - he's outperformed top ten ranked short-stops Manny Machado and Jurickson Profar. He could be the center-piece of a trade for established talent for a re-building club.
Re: Here's What's Next...
posted at 8/26/2012 6:53 PM EDT
- tom-uk
- Posts: 1907
- First: 8/13/2010
- Last: 6/5/2013
In Response to
Re: Here's What's Next...:
Without freeing up all that dough how do the Sox improve? They couldn't sign Kuroda this year and it could have made a world of difference. Take the money and the players and run. 260 million is just too much to say no too The Red Sox are paying at least 12 million. They aren't getting 260 million. Slomag gets it.
Posted by TrotterNixon
Sorry Slomag but this reminds me of when you and Softy claimed the AGon contract deal was not going to happen early season April 2011. We know how that ended.
The majority of RSN will support a scrappier team for 2013, rather than the status quo which was 66 - 87. I'm not saying there won't be moaners when the young guys slump, but more fans would prefer watching some combination of the following: Middlebrooks, Kalish, Lava, Iglesias, Ciriaco, Linares, ... and looking forward to the top prospects in AA.
Keith Law said today that the Sox now have a top ten farm system. Does it always pan out, of course not but it beats watching: Jenks, DiceK, Lackey, Crawford (compared to what he was, and knowing the contract), and most of all Beckett (not that I agree).
Re: Here's What's Next...
posted at 8/26/2012 6:56 PM EDT
- carnie
- Posts: 10933
- First: 5/26/2008
- Last: 6/18/2013
In Response to
Re: Here's What's Next...:
In Response to Re: Here's What's Next... : Sorry Slomag but this reminds me of when you and Softy claimed the AGon deal was not going to happen in Spring 2011. We know how that ended. The majority of RSN will support a scrappier team for 2103, rather than the status quo which was 66 - 87. I'm not saying there won't be moaners when the young guys slump, but more fans would prefer watching some combination of the following: Middlebrooks, Kalish, Lava, Iglesias, Ciriaco, Linares, ... and looking forward to the top prospects in AA. Keith Law said today that the Sox now have a top ten farm system. Does it always pan out, of course not but it beats watching: Jenks, DiceK, Lackey, Crawford (compared to what he was, and knowing the contract), and most of all Beckett (not that I agree).
Posted by tom-uk
+1
Re: Here's What's Next...
posted at 8/26/2012 6:58 PM EDT
- moonslav59
- Posts: 35071
- First: 9/27/2005
- Last: 6/20/2013
My guess is that Bogaerts, Bradley and Barnes all jump way up in the prospects top 100 list.
The prospects gained from LA may allow us to make some significant trades without including one of the 3 killer B's (4 if you count Brentz).
Re: Here's What's Next...
posted at 8/26/2012 7:00 PM EDT
- carnie
- Posts: 10933
- First: 5/26/2008
- Last: 6/18/2013
In Response to
Re: Here's What's Next...:
One thing we're going to have going for us next year is that Xander Bogaerts is going to jump considerably in the prospect rankings - he's outperformed top ten ranked short-stops Manny Machado and Jurickson Profar. He could be the center-piece of a trade for established talent for a re-building club.
Posted by slomag
Or he could be the middle of the order bat we need. I'd really like to see him in right field. He has a very good arm.
This post has been removed.
Re: Here's What's Next...
posted at 8/26/2012 7:12 PM EDT
- hill55
- Posts: 7762
- First: 1/14/2006
- Last: 6/19/2013
In a more readable format:
Re: LA Times:Dodgers interested in Gonzalez/Would they also take Crawford/Beckett?Update:Dodgers awarded waiver claim on Adrian Gonzalez.posted at 8/24/2012 3:51 PM EDT | |
 Posts: 1257
First: 7/3/2012
Last: 8/26/2012 d2869c36545a1654bacd36e2f26e38f7 | Yes, there are a lot of beat reporters who aren't accountable for blather. There is no substance to this, at all. Boston baseball ratings market is dead. Weak try. |
Re: LA Times:Dodgers interested in Gonzalez/Would they also take Crawford/Beckett?Thoughts?posted at 8/24/2012 11:31 AM EDT | |
| Posts: 1257
First: 7/3/2012
Last: 8/26/2012 d2869c36545a1654bacd36e2f26e38f7 | Why would the Red Sox want to trade AGon?
There is no way the Dodgers will take Crawford without the Red Sox getting nothing for something. This bugaboo thread just shows how the Red Sox current season has lost nearly all interest. |
Re: Here's What's Next...
posted at 8/26/2012 7:20 PM EDT
- slomag
- Posts: 3657
- First: 8/31/2009
- Last: 6/19/2013
In Response to
Re: Here's What's Next...:
In Response to Re: Here's What's Next... : Sorry Slomag but this reminds me of when you and Softy claimed the AGon contract deal was not going to happen early season April 2011. We know how that ended. The majority of RSN will support a scrappier team for 2013, rather than the status quo which was 66 - 87. I'm not saying there won't be moaners when the young guys slump, but more fans would prefer watching some combination of the following: Middlebrooks, Kalish, Lava, Iglesias, Ciriaco, Linares, ... and looking forward to the top prospects in AA. Keith Law said today that the Sox now have a top ten farm system. Does it always pan out, of course not but it beats watching: Jenks, DiceK, Lackey, Crawford (compared to what he was, and knowing the contract), and most of all Beckett (not that I agree).
Posted by tom-uk
I just don't understand the cheering for dollars, Tom. I love our prospects too, but if you're going to trade AGon, do it straight up - we could have had half the LA farm system, held on to two bad contracts (one that expires in 2014) and still had $60M to spend on improvements. That's not what I wanted, but I'd rather have a bunch of new prospects to be excited about than a bunch of new dollars to spend on talent that doesn't exist.
Re: Here's What's Next...
posted at 8/26/2012 7:23 PM EDT
- slomag
- Posts: 3657
- First: 8/31/2009
- Last: 6/19/2013
In Response to
Re: Here's What's Next...:
In Response to Re: Here's What's Next... : Or he could be the middle of the order bat we need. I'd really like to see him in right field. He has a very good arm.
Posted by carnie
He's a tremendous bat and value for a SS. Not so much as a RF.
Speaking of RF, and getting back on topic, Michael Bourn is a possibility. We'd be bidding against teams who need CFers, so of course we'll need to overpay.
Re: Here's What's Next...
posted at 8/26/2012 7:31 PM EDT
- tom-uk
- Posts: 1907
- First: 8/13/2010
- Last: 6/5/2013
In Response to
Re: Here's What's Next...:
In Response to Re: Here's What's Next... : I just don't understand the cheering for dollars, Tom. I love our prospects too, but if you're going to trade AGon, do it straight up - we could have had half the LA farm system, held on to two bad contracts (one that expires in 2014) and still had $60M to spend on improvements. That's not what I wanted, but I'd rather have a bunch of new prospects to be excited about than a bunch of new dollars to spend on talent that doesn't exist.
Posted by slomag
Fair point,
and another worry is that the "loopholes" Theo used have been partially closed. Going overslot in draft, IFA signings, dead-line deals just for FA compensation picks (Wagner from Mets), signing one year rentals and getting two picks (Beltre picks Swihart and Brad;ey Jr.).
Re: Here's What's Next...
posted at 8/26/2012 7:35 PM EDT
- carnie
- Posts: 10933
- First: 5/26/2008
- Last: 6/18/2013
In Response to
Re: Here's What's Next...:
In Response to Re: Here's What's Next... : He's a tremendous bat and value for a SS. Not so much as a RF. Speaking of RF, and getting back on topic, Michael Bourn is a possibility. We'd be bidding against teams who need CFers, so of course we'll need to overpay.
Posted by slomag
I'm hoping that Ben waits until late in the offseason before he signs any FAs. That's usually when you can get the values. Ross would be nice to have back if we could get him on a 2 year deal. I woulodn't mind seeing Linares out in right either.
Re: Here's What's Next...
posted at 8/26/2012 7:50 PM EDT
- moonslav59
- Posts: 35071
- First: 9/27/2005
- Last: 6/20/2013
We should look to trade for young players like Justin Upton, find a bridge 1Bman to Travis Shaw or Gomez (or even move Lava, Bogaerts or Cecchini to 1B), maybe a Morneau type, and take a chance on McCarthy and Marcum. This coul be our 2013 team:
C Salty/Lava
DH Lava (Papi? Ross?)
1B Morneau
2B Pedey
3B Middlebrooks
SS Ciriaco/Iggy/Aviles
LF Linares/Nava (Ross?)
CF Ellsbury
RF Upton/Sweeney
SP Buch, Lester, McCarthy, Marcum, Lackey
SP/LR Doubront, Morales, Mortensen, Tazawa, Stewart
RP Bailey, Aceves, Breslow, Miller, Hill, Atchison, Melancon
We coul even add a Greinke of Hamilton and still be under where we are now.
Re: Here's What's Next...
posted at 8/26/2012 7:54 PM EDT
- CA_Sox
- Posts: 592
- First: 4/20/2012
- Last: 8/29/2012
In Response to
Re: Here's What's Next...:
In Response to Re: Here's What's Next... : He's a tremendous bat and value for a SS. Not so much as a RF. Speaking of RF, and getting back on topic, Michael Bourn is a possibility. We'd be bidding against teams who need CFers, so of course we'll need to overpay.
Posted by slomag
Overpay? now that sounds familiar....
Re: Here's What's Next...
posted at 8/26/2012 7:57 PM EDT
- moonslav59
- Posts: 35071
- First: 9/27/2005
- Last: 6/20/2013
In Response to
Re: Here's What's Next...:
In Response to Re: Here's What's Next... : He's a tremendous bat and value for a SS. Not so much as a RF. Speaking of RF, and getting back on topic, Michael Bourn is a possibility. We'd be bidding against teams who need CFers, so of course we'll need to overpay.
Posted by slomag
Bourn would also allow Jacoby to bat 3rd, filling a need in the middle of our line-up and bringing some speed to spacious Fenway RF.
Re: Here's What's Next...
posted at 8/26/2012 8:03 PM EDT
In Response to
Re: Here's What's Next...:
In Response to Re: Here's What's Next... : I appreciate your analysis but can you give us some idea of these 5-6 highly productive players you are considering?
Posted by CA_Sox
In time my friend. As has already been said, there's not much out there this off season. I hope they go slow. Really do their homework, & go after those second teir guys who might me available.
