Here's why I like the signings so far

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from carnie. Show carnie's posts

    Here's why I like the signings so far

    Ben is bringing in ballplayers, not prima donnas. Are any of these guys superstars? No, and I don't think anyone will argue they are. But they remind me a lot of the 2003 off season when Theo went out and signed guys like Bill Mueller, Kevin Millar and David Ortiz. Were those sexy signings at the time? No, but how did they work out? Mueller won a batting championship, Millar was the heart of a great baseball team and David Ortiz went on to become arguably the greatest clutch hitter in Red Sox history. Granted, the core of the team is probably not as good as it was heading into 2004 (no one to compare to Pedro, Manny or Nomar) but every guy we've signed so far is a good solid baseball guy who comes to the park to play, not whine. I don't expect any of these guys to be superstars, but I have a suspicion that Napoli might crush the ball playing 81 games at Fenway.

     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from dgalehouse. Show dgalehouse's posts

    Re: Here's why I like the signings so far

    In response to carnie's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Ben is bringing in ballplayers, not prima donnas. Are any of these guys superstars? No, and I don't think anyone will argue they are. But they remind me a lot of the 2003 off season when Theo went out and signed guys like Bill Mueller, Kevin Millar and David Ortiz. Were those sexy signings at the time? No, but how did they work out? Mueller won a batting championship, Millar was the heart of a great baseball team and David Ortiz went on to become arguably the greatest clutch hitter in Red Sox history. Granted, the core of the team is probably not as good as it was heading into 2004 (no one to compare to Pedro, Manny or Nomar) but every guy we've signed so far is a good solid baseball guy who comes to the park to play, not whine. I don't expect any of these guys to be superstars, but I have a suspicion that Napoli might crush the ball playing 81 games at Fenway.

    [/QUOTE]


    I totally disagree. Just about every move that Ben has made has been a downgrade.  Bailey is not as good as Papelbon.  Ross is not as good as Reddick. Napoli is not as good as AGon. Gomes is not as good as Crawford. Cook is not as good as Beckett. Victorino is not as good as Ellsbury. Aviles was not as good as Scutaro. This team is getting worse , not better.  I know that I am a pessimist , while you are an optimist. We will find out who is right when we see how the team performs this coming season.  I am not very hopeful for them.  And , no , I am not going to find another team to root for. I just want to see the Sox improve. And , I am not seeing it.

     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from carnie. Show carnie's posts

    Re: Here's why I like the signings so far

    In response to dgalehouse's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to carnie's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Ben is bringing in ballplayers, not prima donnas. Are any of these guys superstars? No, and I don't think anyone will argue they are. But they remind me a lot of the 2003 off season when Theo went out and signed guys like Bill Mueller, Kevin Millar and David Ortiz. Were those sexy signings at the time? No, but how did they work out? Mueller won a batting championship, Millar was the heart of a great baseball team and David Ortiz went on to become arguably the greatest clutch hitter in Red Sox history. Granted, the core of the team is probably not as good as it was heading into 2004 (no one to compare to Pedro, Manny or Nomar) but every guy we've signed so far is a good solid baseball guy who comes to the park to play, not whine. I don't expect any of these guys to be superstars, but I have a suspicion that Napoli might crush the ball playing 81 games at Fenway.

    [/QUOTE]


    I totally disagree. Just about every move that Ben has made has been a downgrade.  Bailey is not as good as Papelbon.  Ross is not as good as Reddick. Napoli is not as good as AGon. Gomes is not as good as Crawford. Cook is not as good as Beckett. Victorino is not as good as Ellsbury. Aviles was not as good as Scutaro. This team is getting worse , not better.  I know that I am a pessimist , while you are an optimist. We will find out who is right when we see how the team performs this coming season.  I am not very hopeful for them.  And , no , I am not going to find another team to root for. I just want to see the Sox improve. And , I am not seeing it.

    [/QUOTE]


    Point taken. At least you didn't call me a bootlicker or kool aid drinker as some have. Like you said we'll see.

     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from Ice-Cream. Show Ice-Cream's posts

    Re: Here's why I like the signings so far

     

    The Red Sox are getting better with these moves.  But not better enough.  Especially in the competitive AL East where Toronto is now a playoff contender.  

    As of now, I see the Red Sox as an 84-78 team.  

     

     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from carnie. Show carnie's posts

    Re: Here's why I like the signings so far

    In response to Ice-Cream's comment:
    [QUOTE]

     

    The Red Sox are getting better with these moves.  But not better enough.  Especially in the competitive AL East where Toronto is now a playoff contender.  

    As of now, I see the Red Sox as an 84-78 team. 

    [/QUOTE]

    Kind of how the Red Sox were the greatest team ever after the 2010 winter meetings?

     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from pumpsie-green. Show pumpsie-green's posts

    Re: Here's why I like the signings so far

    Napoli......Ross.....Victorino.....YAWWWWWWWWWWWN. Wake me up when Cherries fixes the starting pitching.

     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from carnie. Show carnie's posts

    Re: Here's why I like the signings so far

    In response to pumpsie-green's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Napoli......Ross.....Victorino.....YAWWWWWWWWWWWN. Wake me up when Cherries fixes the starting pitching.

    [/QUOTE]


    Hopefully that's next. The Sox number one need is starting pitching, and has been since about last July.

     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from boborielly224. Show boborielly224's posts

    Re: Here's why I like the signings so far

    In response to pumpsie-green's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Napoli......Ross.....Victorino.....YAWWWWWWWWWWWN. Wake me up when Cherries fixes the starting pitching.

    [/QUOTE]


    I am happy with these signings, but yes lets get more serious Ben about the pitching. Pitching will take a team farther into season and play-offs. One superstar pitcher won't  take a team to the promise land. But a good solid, consistent and well manage pitching roster can take a team to the promise land. Take a look at Balt. pitching staff ,  it was consistent all the birds need now is run production.

     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from SpacemanEephus. Show SpacemanEephus's posts

    Re: Here's why I like the signings so far

    In response to dgalehouse's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to carnie's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Ben is bringing in ballplayers, not prima donnas. Are any of these guys superstars? No, and I don't think anyone will argue they are. But they remind me a lot of the 2003 off season when Theo went out and signed guys like Bill Mueller, Kevin Millar and David Ortiz. Were those sexy signings at the time? No, but how did they work out? Mueller won a batting championship, Millar was the heart of a great baseball team and David Ortiz went on to become arguably the greatest clutch hitter in Red Sox history. Granted, the core of the team is probably not as good as it was heading into 2004 (no one to compare to Pedro, Manny or Nomar) but every guy we've signed so far is a good solid baseball guy who comes to the park to play, not whine. I don't expect any of these guys to be superstars, but I have a suspicion that Napoli might crush the ball playing 81 games at Fenway.

    [/QUOTE]


    I totally disagree. Just about every move that Ben has made has been a downgrade.  Bailey is not as good as Papelbon.  Ross is not as good as Reddick. Napoli is not as good as AGon. Gomes is not as good as Crawford. Cook is not as good as Beckett. Victorino is not as good as Ellsbury. Aviles was not as good as Scutaro. This team is getting worse , not better.  I know that I am a pessimist , while you are an optimist. We will find out who is right when we see how the team performs this coming season.  I am not very hopeful for them.  And , no , I am not going to find another team to root for. I just want to see the Sox improve. And , I am not seeing it.

    [/QUOTE]

    OK.  Your downgrades are valid, but you are looking at them in a vacuum without any sense of context.  

    Papelbon is better than Bailey, yes.  But Papelbon was not signed because of the length of contract he wanted.  I still think that it was smart not to sign him for that long.  Can be debated of course.  I love Pap.  But we won't know the answer for a couple years.  

    Napoli is not replacing A-Gon as if it were a choice to have napoli instead of A-Gon.  Gonzalez was the sacrifice to get rid of albatross Crawford and Beckett.  

    Victorino is not replacing Ellsbury, unless Ellsbury is traded for a top of the rotation pitcher, in which case, fine, he is not as good as Ellsbury.  We got a necessary great pitcher for that downgrade.

    Getting rid of Scutaro was perhaps a mistake.  Granted.  Though he played 2B last year.  No one saw him as an answer at SS.  But I love Marco and was sad to see him go.  No doubt.

    And Cook has nothing to do with Beckett.  Cook was brought up to fill in long before Beckett was jettisoned because the rotation was in shambles.  Cook was just fill-in material, not a replacement for Josh Beckett.

    No doubt this is a team in transition, and, on paper, not as good as the club (should have been) in 2011.  But, you are not accounting for context in any of these comparisons.

     

     

     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from Alibiike. Show Alibiike's posts

    Re: Here's why I like the signings so far

    In response to Ice-Cream's comment:
    [QUOTE]

     

    The Red Sox are getting better with these moves.  But not better enough.  Especially in the competitive AL East where Toronto is now a playoff contender.  

    As of now, I see the Red Sox as an 84-78 team.  

     

    [/QUOTE]

    And where, pray tell, are those 84 wins going to come from with the pitching staff we have? Unless Ben signs 2 top starters, it does not matter how many runs we score if we can't keep the opposing teams from scoring more.

     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from pumpsie-green. Show pumpsie-green's posts

    Re: Here's why I like the signings so far

    In response to carnie's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to pumpsie-green's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Napoli......Ross.....Victorino.....YAWWWWWWWWWWWN. Wake me up when Cherries fixes the starting pitching.

    [/QUOTE]


    Hopefully that's next. The Sox number one need is starting pitching, and has been since about last July.

    [/QUOTE]


    I wrote earlier that I am not disappointed at the lack of alacrity with fixing this team, just that its really hard to get excited about our chances of escaping the cellar without revamping our starting pitching. I am not as hopeful as some here that Lester will come back to be more than a serviceable #4 SP or that Bucky can last a full season and be productive or that Lackey will contribute much of anything more than "depth". I think our SP is in shambles and we need an ace and probably another solid starter to compete next year. If they do that, great; if not, its back in the cellar.

     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from dgalehouse. Show dgalehouse's posts

    Re: Here's why I like the signings so far

    In response to SpacemanEephus' comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to dgalehouse's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to carnie's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Ben is bringing in ballplayers, not prima donnas. Are any of these guys superstars? No, and I don't think anyone will argue they are. But they remind me a lot of the 2003 off season when Theo went out and signed guys like Bill Mueller, Kevin Millar and David Ortiz. Were those sexy signings at the time? No, but how did they work out? Mueller won a batting championship, Millar was the heart of a great baseball team and David Ortiz went on to become arguably the greatest clutch hitter in Red Sox history. Granted, the core of the team is probably not as good as it was heading into 2004 (no one to compare to Pedro, Manny or Nomar) but every guy we've signed so far is a good solid baseball guy who comes to the park to play, not whine. I don't expect any of these guys to be superstars, but I have a suspicion that Napoli might crush the ball playing 81 games at Fenway.

    [/QUOTE]


    I totally disagree. Just about every move that Ben has made has been a downgrade.  Bailey is not as good as Papelbon.  Ross is not as good as Reddick. Napoli is not as good as AGon. Gomes is not as good as Crawford. Cook is not as good as Beckett. Victorino is not as good as Ellsbury. Aviles was not as good as Scutaro. This team is getting worse , not better.  I know that I am a pessimist , while you are an optimist. We will find out who is right when we see how the team performs this coming season.  I am not very hopeful for them.  And , no , I am not going to find another team to root for. I just want to see the Sox improve. And , I am not seeing it.

    [/QUOTE]

    OK.  Your downgrades are valid, but you are looking at them in a vacuum without any sense of context.  

    Papelbon is better than Bailey, yes.  But Papelbon was not signed because of the length of contract he wanted.  I still think that it was smart not to sign him for that long.  Can be debated of course.  I love Pap.  But we won't know the answer for a couple years.  

    Napoli is not replacing A-Gon as if it were a choice to have napoli instead of A-Gon.  Gonzalez was the sacrifice to get rid of albatross Crawford and Beckett.  

    Victorino is not replacing Ellsbury, unless Ellsbury is traded for a top of the rotation pitcher, in which case, fine, he is not as good as Ellsbury.  We got a necessary great pitcher for that downgrade.

    Getting rid of Scutaro was perhaps a mistake.  Granted.  Though he played 2B last year.  No one saw him as an answer at SS.  But I love Marco and was sad to see him go.  No doubt.

    And Cook has nothing to do with Beckett.  Cook was brought up to fill in long before Beckett was jettisoned because the rotation was in shambles.  Cook was just fill-in material, not a replacement for Josh Beckett.

    No doubt this is a team in transition, and, on paper, not as good as the club (should have been) in 2011.  But, you are not accounting for context in any of these comparisons.

     

     

    [/QUOTE]

    I understand what you are saying. My point is that we have gotten weaker at a number of positions with the moves that Ben has made so far in his tenure. 
     

     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from southpaw777. Show southpaw777's posts

    Re: Here's why I like the signings so far

    The pitching market is ready to be set with Grienke signs. Like after Upton signed, we all knew what OF'ers were gonna cost. Indians offered 4/44 to Victorino, we overpaid by 2M per, but got him for 3 years not 4.

    Once the first guy goes, the market will set and pitchers will start to fall off the board. All the while BC is exploring trades. Have to wait and see how it looks when were done in February. Lots of things can happen still.

     

    As we go we'll hear some interviews from these players weve already signed, and begin to get a feel for what their all about. They have a lot of RH bats now (SV switch-hitter) and BC already mentioned LH platoon guy for 1b and ideally play OF as well... Theres more to come.

    Well, I do know one thing. Character has a lot to do with these FA signings. These guys are all hard-nosed "ballplayers". Bottom line is Im waiting til were all done and know whos on the ST roster before I can give an honest opinion, but I do like the direction its headed so far.

     

     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from Flapjack07. Show Flapjack07's posts

    Re: Here's why I like the signings so far

    In response to carnie's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to dgalehouse's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to carnie's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Ben is bringing in ballplayers, not prima donnas. Are any of these guys superstars? No, and I don't think anyone will argue they are. But they remind me a lot of the 2003 off season when Theo went out and signed guys like Bill Mueller, Kevin Millar and David Ortiz. Were those sexy signings at the time? No, but how did they work out? Mueller won a batting championship, Millar was the heart of a great baseball team and David Ortiz went on to become arguably the greatest clutch hitter in Red Sox history. Granted, the core of the team is probably not as good as it was heading into 2004 (no one to compare to Pedro, Manny or Nomar) but every guy we've signed so far is a good solid baseball guy who comes to the park to play, not whine. I don't expect any of these guys to be superstars, but I have a suspicion that Napoli might crush the ball playing 81 games at Fenway.

    [/QUOTE]


    I totally disagree. Just about every move that Ben has made has been a downgrade.  Bailey is not as good as Papelbon.  Ross is not as good as Reddick. Napoli is not as good as AGon. Gomes is not as good as Crawford. Cook is not as good as Beckett. Victorino is not as good as Ellsbury. Aviles was not as good as Scutaro. This team is getting worse , not better.  I know that I am a pessimist , while you are an optimist. We will find out who is right when we see how the team performs this coming season.  I am not very hopeful for them.  And , no , I am not going to find another team to root for. I just want to see the Sox improve. And , I am not seeing it.

    [/QUOTE]


    Point taken. At least you didn't call me a bootlicker or kool aid drinker as some have. Like you said we'll see.

    [/QUOTE]


    I think a lot of this does boil down to differences in temperament (optimist vs pessimist, etc)...I've been none too impressed by the additions so far, but my first impulse is to give the FO the benefit of the doubt if at all possible and to wait to see how things turn out rather than assuming I know more about how to run a baseball team than they do.

    Unfortunately, I think a lot of the knee-jerk reaction crowd will spend the next 3 seasons ceaselessly bashing Napoli and Victorino for no other reason than because they didn't like the signings to begin with. Whatever one thinks about the FO's actions, I hope people can put that aside and root for the player once they put on a RS uniform.

     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from SpacemanEephus. Show SpacemanEephus's posts

    Re: Here's why I like the signings so far

    In response to dgalehouse's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to SpacemanEephus' comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to dgalehouse's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to carnie's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Ben is bringing in ballplayers, not prima donnas. Are any of these guys superstars? No, and I don't think anyone will argue they are. But they remind me a lot of the 2003 off season when Theo went out and signed guys like Bill Mueller, Kevin Millar and David Ortiz. Were those sexy signings at the time? No, but how did they work out? Mueller won a batting championship, Millar was the heart of a great baseball team and David Ortiz went on to become arguably the greatest clutch hitter in Red Sox history. Granted, the core of the team is probably not as good as it was heading into 2004 (no one to compare to Pedro, Manny or Nomar) but every guy we've signed so far is a good solid baseball guy who comes to the park to play, not whine. I don't expect any of these guys to be superstars, but I have a suspicion that Napoli might crush the ball playing 81 games at Fenway.

    [/QUOTE]


    I totally disagree. Just about every move that Ben has made has been a downgrade.  Bailey is not as good as Papelbon.  Ross is not as good as Reddick. Napoli is not as good as AGon. Gomes is not as good as Crawford. Cook is not as good as Beckett. Victorino is not as good as Ellsbury. Aviles was not as good as Scutaro. This team is getting worse , not better.  I know that I am a pessimist , while you are an optimist. We will find out who is right when we see how the team performs this coming season.  I am not very hopeful for them.  And , no , I am not going to find another team to root for. I just want to see the Sox improve. And , I am not seeing it.

    [/QUOTE]

    OK.  Your downgrades are valid, but you are looking at them in a vacuum without any sense of context.  

    Papelbon is better than Bailey, yes.  But Papelbon was not signed because of the length of contract he wanted.  I still think that it was smart not to sign him for that long.  Can be debated of course.  I love Pap.  But we won't know the answer for a couple years.  

    Napoli is not replacing A-Gon as if it were a choice to have napoli instead of A-Gon.  Gonzalez was the sacrifice to get rid of albatross Crawford and Beckett.  

    Victorino is not replacing Ellsbury, unless Ellsbury is traded for a top of the rotation pitcher, in which case, fine, he is not as good as Ellsbury.  We got a necessary great pitcher for that downgrade.

    Getting rid of Scutaro was perhaps a mistake.  Granted.  Though he played 2B last year.  No one saw him as an answer at SS.  But I love Marco and was sad to see him go.  No doubt.

    And Cook has nothing to do with Beckett.  Cook was brought up to fill in long before Beckett was jettisoned because the rotation was in shambles.  Cook was just fill-in material, not a replacement for Josh Beckett.

    No doubt this is a team in transition, and, on paper, not as good as the club (should have been) in 2011.  But, you are not accounting for context in any of these comparisons.

     

     

    [/QUOTE]

    I understand what you are saying. My point is that we have gotten weaker at a number of positions with the moves that Ben has made so far in his tenure. 
     

    [/QUOTE]

    Sure, facts are facts.  No arguement.  I would just say that most of the downgrades have been the result of the sins of his predecessor.  My verdict is still out on Ben.

     

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