Here's Why I've Become a John Lackey Fan

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from joyceand. Show joyceand's posts

    Re: Here's Why I've Become a John Lackey Fan

    This is his 3rd year with the Sox and he has yet to produce results.  He was decent (not great) for the Angels but he always had a history of struggling at Fenway.  Of course I hope that he has a good season for the team's sake but I think that the signing was a mistake.  Oh well, at least the hot dogs cost less.

     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from patrickford. Show patrickford's posts

    Re: Here's Why I've Become a John Lackey Fan

    I have tremendous respect for Lackey. His failing is the same one which shortened the career of Larry Bird. The same one which may well shorten the career of Pedroia. Total warriors who need someone to tell them to sit down. 

    They also suffer because they don't make excuses. If anything they will tell the press they feel fine, when it's obvious they should not even be trying to play. If Larry Bird had been as cautious as J.D.Drew he might have played until he was 50. 

    Get off his back. 

     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Here's Why I've Become a John Lackey Fan

     He was decent (not great) for the Angels but he always had a history of struggling at Fenway. 

    False.

    His career numbers at Fenway before coming to Boston were not good, but that was because of early troubles there. He had actually pitched pretty well at Fenway for a couple seasons up to the signing. Rememeber, Fenway is a hitter's park and the Sox had a great offense the seasons listed below:

    2009  0-1  2.35 ERA  7.2 IP  8H  3 BB

    2008  1-0  2.00 ERA  9 IP 2 H 2 BB

    2008 Game 4 ALDS @ Fenway:  0-0  0.00 ERA  7 IP  4H  2 BB

     

    2 year totals, counting '08 playoffs:

    1-1  23.2 IP  4 ER 14 H  & 7 BB

    ERA: 1.52

    WHIP: 0.887

     

     

     

     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Here's Why I've Become a John Lackey Fan

    In response to joyceand's comment:

    In response to carnie's comment:

     

    I'm glad you brought up him pitching on a shredded elbow in 2011. To me, a guy who'll keep going out there in a tremendous amount of pain start after start is a real team guy and someone who is deserving of our support. He's probably overpaid and a lot of "fans" hold that against him, just like they did with Crawford. But in this day and age, show me a veteran baseball player who isn't overpaid.

     




    If he had a bad elbow, how did he pass the Sox' physical?  Seems to me as if he got an enormous contract under false pretenses.

     



    The Sox knew about the elbow issue and insisted on an injury clause that has kicked in. Lackey will be under a minimum wage contract for an additional year. 

     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Here's Why I've Become a John Lackey Fan

    In response to patrickford's comment:

    I have tremendous respect for Lackey. His failing is the same one which shortened the career of Larry Bird. The same one which may well shorten the career of Pedroia. Total warriors who need someone to tell them to sit down. 

    They also suffer because they don't make excuses. If anything they will tell the press they feel fine, when it's obvious they should not even be trying to play. If Larry Bird had been as cautious as J.D.Drew he might have played until he was 50. 

    Get off his back. 



    I agree, but sometimes this warrior mentality can hurt the team. If Lackey had spoken up about the 2011 injury, perhaps he could have had the surgery earlier, been helpful by a healthy return almost a year earlier (we could have used him midway through 2012), and perhaps a replacement pitcher could have done better than his 2011 numbers: 12-12  6.41 1.619 WHIP.

    Possible Sox SPs that might have taken some of Lackey's 28 GS'd:

    Wakefield  5.12  1.358

    A. Miller     5.54  1.815

    Morales      3.62  1.268

    Or, maybe we trade for a SP in addition to or better than Bedard.

     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from georom4. Show georom4's posts

    Re: Here's Why I've Become a John Lackey Fan

    In response to patrickford's comment:

    I have tremendous respect for Lackey. His failing is the same one which shortened the career of Larry Bird. The same one which may well shorten the career of Pedroia. Total warriors who need someone to tell them to sit down. 

    They also suffer because they don't make excuses. If anything they will tell the press they feel fine, when it's obvious they should not even be trying to play. If Larry Bird had been as cautious as J.D.Drew he might have played until he was 50. 

    Get off his back. 



    I agre 100%  I have said this about Dustin and folks say I'm bashing him....I am almost certain his style of play will cut his career down at least 3-4 years and seriously limit his effectiveness....but like Bird he will leave on his own terms and you have to respect that

     
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  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from maxbialystock. Show maxbialystock's posts

    Re: Here's Why I've Become a John Lackey Fan

    I admit I have never pulled for Lackey, so the OP was a good corrective.  I certainly reacted badly to Lackey's histrionics on the mound.  I did however like the new Lackey this spring and was definitely rooting for him.  Yesterday's start was, despite that 2-run dinger (by a team that has already hit a lot of them), pretty impressive.  Plus I give Lackey credit for working quickly. 

    In the end of course we all want performance.  If that muscle pull or whatever is short-lived, I think Lackey could have a good season.  Goodness knows the Sox need good pitching this year. 

     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from southpaw777. Show southpaw777's posts

    Re: Here's Why I've Become a John Lackey Fan

    In response to royf19's comment:

    In response to redsoxdirtdog's comment:

     

    I looked into his eyes and saw a new soul.  :)

     



    When he had that meltdown in 2011 about how his life was falling apart -- or however he phrased it -- I felt bad for him. He came across a guy who was dealing with a lot of bad stuff and did not know how to handle it all.

     

    They way some fans demonize players is ridiculous. Not that some players don't deserve it, but most of the time, it goes way overboard.




    Thats when I started to really look at the whole situation. The Sox were the ones that offered him that deal, who wouldnt have taken it? I didnt really agree with the signing, but since then Ive always wished him to do well while hes here.

    I felt for him with his personal situation and everyone in Boston getting on him. But he kept taking the ball every 5 days even with a bad wing and all that turmoil. I respect that. Who am I to say hes unprofessional or a bad teammate when those very teammates are they guys saying just the opposite. I have a whole new respect for lackey and truly hope this injury isnt one that puts him on the shelf for a long time. He worked his azz off to get back and looked great in those 4 IP.

     

     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from patrickford. Show patrickford's posts

    Re: Here's Why I've Become a John Lackey Fan

    In response to georom4's comment:

    In response to patrickford's comment:

     

     

    I agre 100%  I have said this about Dustin and folks say I'm bashing him....I am almost certain his style of play will cut his career down at least 3-4 years and seriously limit his effectiveness....but like Bird he will leave on his own terms and you have to respect that

     




    You don't want to see a guy be less aggressive. What I really mean is a Bird, Lackey, or Pedroia should not play when they are pretty seriously hurt and only making the injury worse. If it's bloody sock for a championship game, well that's maybe when you take a risk. Lackey went a whole season with a bloody sock, Pedroia was out there last year with a bad hand. Bird returned way to soon  from his back injuries which just kept getting worse and worse. I recall reading Bird would spend the night in traction and then go out and play. That's just crazy. 

     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Here's Why I've Become a John Lackey Fan

    In response to patrickford's comment:

    In response to georom4's comment:

     

    In response to patrickford's comment:

     

     

    I agre 100%  I have said this about Dustin and folks say I'm bashing him....I am almost certain his style of play will cut his career down at least 3-4 years and seriously limit his effectiveness....but like Bird he will leave on his own terms and you have to respect that

     

     




     

    You don't want to see a guy be less aggressive. What I really mean is a Bird, Lackey, or Pedroia should not play when they are pretty seriously hurt and only making the injury worse. If it's bloody sock for a championship game, well that's maybe when you take a risk. Lackey went a whole season with a bloody sock, Pedroia was out there last year with a bad hand. Bird returned way to soon  from his back injuries which just kept getting worse and worse. I recall reading Bird would spend the night in traction and then go out and play. That's just crazy. 



    One difference: the team knew he was in traction the night before playing. It was also their choice to continue playing him and risk future production. It is my undertsnading that Lackey kept it a secret not just from the media, but the team as well. (Correct me if I am wrong here.)

    It reminds me of the season Jed Lowrie, fighting for a roster spot, kept his injury secret, he went something like 2 for 45 until the injury was "discovered", and the team barely missed the playoffs.

     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from craze4sox. Show craze4sox's posts

    Re: Here's Why I've Become a John Lackey Fan

    In response to Joebreidey's comment:

     

    But it goes beyond that too. Hypocritical fans pushed me in that direction. J.D. Drew was ripped for not playing if he had a slight hang nail. Yet Lackey went out in 2011 with a fried elbow, and he was ripped because he struggled. And to go back to 2010, he was a lot better than he's given credit for. He started slow but had an ERA in the 3.s the last couple of months.

    That's just the fans that hate every player on the RS.

    And hate the FO.

    And hate Fenway.

    And hate the coaches.

    And hate Boston.

     



    I don't hate all of the above but certainly never liked the fact we signed Lackey.

     

    If Lackey is in fact doing any of the things you mentioned it's probably to get back into good graces with his teammates, FO and fans that have seen him take up a spot on the roster with very little production or "role model" qualities since arriving.  It was great to see a decent start from him yesterday but now hes probably back on the DL again.  Not his fault granted but it doesn't help our team.

    Liking Lackey for being competitive is one thing as long he can accept/own up to his own weaknesses without pointing fingers or making excuses for them.  I put Lackey, Beckett and Aceves all in the same category.  Lackey lacks the overall talent and health to be a consistent asset to team at 82mil.  Josh actually had talent but could only pitch to Tek and Aceves is probably the biggest head case of all. 

    All stubborn, head strong personalities that the team could do without.  If Lackey has changed thats a good thing but lets wait a few games before trying to change his personality for him.

     
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  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from slomag. Show slomag's posts

    Re: Here's Why I've Become a John Lackey Fan

    I can't speak for all the "haters" but what is so troubling to me about Lackey is his disrespect for other players while on the mound.  He doesn't seem to have any trouble showing up a defender making a mistake - no matter how badly he pitches that day.  In post-game interviews, he sounded delusional - like the wind took his pitches into the bats.  After one game in Toronto a couple of years ago, he had given up a HR to John McDonald, and mocked him in his interview - saying something like nobody should be careful to McDonald; it was out frustration, but it was petulant and unprofessional.

    As for his "bulldog mentality" - keep in mind that the discovery of his injury led to his surgery, which triggered his minimum salary clause.  So forgive me if I'm skeptical in thinking that his playing through pain had more to do with the personal loss of $14M than it did with the love of his team.

    Maybe I'm wrong, and I'll root for him as long as he wears the uniform.  I really like what I've seen and heard from him this year, and I don't think yesterday's injury will prove all that serious.  But what I would really love is to hear an apology - not for his performances of the past, but his tantrums and displays of unprofessionalism.  That, IMO, would do more toward clearing the slate than an ERA title.

    I love my team - I only "hate" on the guys who make that a little harder.

     
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  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from carnie. Show carnie's posts

    Re: Here's Why I've Become a John Lackey Fan

    In response to softlaw2's comment:

    I valued my FA offer for Lackey, too high, at 3 years and 30 million, max. He's the value bust I knew he would be.




    You are so smart. Are you sure you're not from the Peoples' Republic of New England? Anyway I bow down to your greatness.

     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from patrickford. Show patrickford's posts

    Re: Here's Why I've Become a John Lackey Fan

    In response to carnie's comment:

    I'm glad you brought up him pitching on a shredded elbow in 2011. To me, a guy who'll keep going out there in a tremendous amount of pain start after start is a real team guy and someone who is deserving of our support. He's probably overpaid and a lot of "fans" hold that against him, just like they did with Crawford. But in this day and age, show me a veteran baseball player who isn't overpaid.



    AND he didn't really mention the elbow. He pretty much made out like it was an irritation, that he felt he should have been pitching better, and was letting the team down.

    What got me was the press did not have his back. A guy can't complain about being hurt in Boston, it just doesn't cut it here. The press should have been out front on this saying what Lackey couldn't say. They also could have said managment should not have him out there. He was most often not effective, and he was shreding his elbow. You don't say the man is hurting the team by trying to pitch hurt, you say managment is doing Lacky and the team a disservice. 

     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from xdrive. Show xdrive's posts

    Re: Here's Why I've Become a John Lackey Fan

    In response to royf19's comment:

    I'm rooting heavily for John Lackey. First and foremost, he'll help the Red Sox.

    But it goes beyond that too. Hypocritical fans pushed me in that direction. J.D. Drew was ripped for not playing if he had a slight hang nail. Yet Lackey went out in 2011 with a fried elbow, and he was ripped because he struggled. And to go back to 2010, he was a lot better than he's given credit for. He started slow but had an ERA in the 3.s the last couple of months.

    Now many will add to his personality -- the way he talked in interviews. Yes, at times he said some dumb things, but also it's superficial. The guy doesn't come across well in an interview, so we kill him. So what -- if he snowed us with great personality, etc. we'd like him?

    Others will bring up his attitude on the field. Yes at times it appeared he was showing up teammates. However, some of it also could be simply he was just upset because he gave up another bomb. He wasn't mad that the ball wasn't caught. He was mad that it couldn't be caught because he made another bad pitch.

    Again, here's where J.D. comes in along with A-Gon. Fans ripped them because they played with no emotion and it looked like they didn't care. Lackey wore his emotion on his sleeve, and he's ripped because he does care.

    Also, I look at Lackey in 2011 as a human being. He was going out every day and taking his turn despite a bad elbow and was struggling. His personal life was falling apart. So his life was falling apart professionally and personally. That's a lot for anyone to deal with.

    He was ripped last year for traveling with the team despite being on the DL, but I think that was a good thing for him. His teammates were a support system -- a family -- that helped him get through the divorce and the not playing.

    By all accounts, Lackey is the type of teammate we should admire. He takes young players under his wing, picking up checks, buying them suits, helping them adjust to the majors, etc.

    And to top it off, it appears he has worked out hard to come back strong, which should show the one thing that fans say they care about.

    THAT HE CARES.

    So now, I don't care what is contract is. I think he really cares about doing well, so I'm rooting big-time for him.

     



    Good post I'm rooting for him too, hope he's ok

     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from patrickford. Show patrickford's posts

    Re: Here's Why I've Become a John Lackey Fan

    In response to slomag's comment:

    I can't speak for all the "haters" but what is so troubling to me about Lackey is his disrespect for other players while on the mound.  He doesn't seem to have any trouble showing up a defender making a mistake - 




    And yet can you find teammates or ex-teammates who dislike the guy? I think it's a little more nuanced than getting annoyed over a bad play. If the players know him and like him off the field they aren't going to worry about getting a dirty look. Reports I've seen indicate ex-teamates stick up for the guy. 

     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from patrickford. Show patrickford's posts

    Re: Here's Why I've Become a John Lackey Fan

    In response to moonslav59's comment:

     

    It is my undertsnading that Lackey kept it a secret not just from the media, but the team as well. (Correct me if I am wrong here.)




    Without looking it up, I think that's wrong. I mean they had the elbow clause in his contract. And didn't he get treatment once or twice during the year? And what of the arm strength monitoring the team is always talking about? 

    I'd say Lacky was doing what Bird used to do. He would say he felt fine, when he was in obvious pain. There are three reasons for that. 

    If you say you are hurt it look like you're making excuses.

    You are telling the other team you are hurt which might give them an advantage.

    You are admiting a problem when you are in a position where you have to will yourself past the problem, try and block it out. 

    The team had to know he was hurt. It doesn't matter if he's saying he's fine, that's his job. The job of managment is to sit him down. 

    Same thing with Pedroia's thumb last year. It was ridiculous they let him play through that. That's how things end up needing surgery or suffering from chronic deterioration. 

     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Here's Why I've Become a John Lackey Fan

    In response to slomag's comment:

    I can't speak for all the "haters" but what is so troubling to me about Lackey is his disrespect for other players while on the mound.  He doesn't seem to have any trouble showing up a defender making a mistake - no matter how badly he pitches that day.  In post-game interviews, he sounded delusional - like the wind took his pitches into the bats.  After one game in Toronto a couple of years ago, he had given up a HR to John McDonald, and mocked him in his interview - saying something like nobody should be careful to McDonald; it was out frustration, but it was petulant and unprofessional.

    As for his "bulldog mentality" - keep in mind that the discovery of his injury led to his surgery, which triggered his minimum salary clause.  So forgive me if I'm skeptical in thinking that his playing through pain had more to do with the personal loss of $14M than it did with the love of his team.

    Maybe I'm wrong, and I'll root for him as long as he wears the uniform.  I really like what I've seen and heard from him this year, and I don't think yesterday's injury will prove all that serious.  But what I would really love is to hear an apology - not for his performances of the past, but his tantrums and displays of unprofessionalism.  That, IMO, would do more toward clearing the slate than an ERA title.

    I love my team - I only "hate" on the guys who make that a little harder.



    I thought the same about John, but then I heard his team mates did not feel he was showing them up after he talked to them. I think I read he told them he was mad at himself not them, and they either believed or of fell for it.

    I've heard his team mates love him, but I do not like the antics either.

     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Here's Why I've Become a John Lackey Fan

    In response to patrickford's comment:

    In response to moonslav59's comment:

     

     

    It is my undertsnading that Lackey kept it a secret not just from the media, but the team as well. (Correct me if I am wrong here.)

     




     

    Without looking it up, I think that's wrong. I mean they had the elbow clause in his contract. And didn't he get treatment once or twice during the year? And what of the arm strength monitoring the team is always talking about? 

    I'd say Lacky was doing what Bird used to do. He would say he felt fine, when he was in obvious pain. There are three reasons for that. 

    If you say you are hurt it look like you're making excuses.

    You are telling the other team you are hurt which might give them an advantage.

    You are admiting a problem when you are in a position where you have to will yourself past the problem, try and block it out. 

    The team had to know he was hurt. It doesn't matter if he's saying he's fine, that's his job. The job of managment is to sit him down. 

    Same thing with Pedroia's thumb last year. It was ridiculous they let him play through that. That's how things end up needing surgery or suffering from chronic deterioration. 



    You are probably right, but I wonder if Lackey was minimizing the pain he felt, it might have made a difference. Our medical staff has certainly proven to be mistake prone, so we may never know.

     
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