Hey Moon, Wakefield is no good

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from BostonTrollSpanker. Show BostonTrollSpanker's posts

    Re: Hey Moon, Wakefield is no good

    I'm looking forward to Wakefield's detractors posting a list of our clearly superior starting pitching options that are healthy and ready to do right now. I'll save you the energy of putting Jon Lester's name down. Who else have you got? 

    In reality this is truly shining a light on John Lackey, this should be his time to shore things up and he can't do it. Wakefield right now is better than Lackey. This is a more serious problem.
     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from BurritoT. Show BurritoT's posts

    Re: Hey Moon, Wakefield is no good

    And had Bard not imploded the "W" certainly would not have been well earned.
     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from Kamdog. Show Kamdog's posts

    Re: Hey Moon, Wakefield is no good

    In Response to Re: Hey Moon, Wakefield is no good:
    In Response to Re: Hey Moon, Wakefield is no good : Love your tongue & cheek humor--


    It is called tongue-in-cheek, not tongue and cheek.  You put your tongue in your cheek to stop yourself from laughing.  Tongue and cheek makes no sense.

    Just FYI
     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from S0ftl@w. Show S0ftl@w's posts

    Re: Hey Moon, Wakefield is no good

    And had Bard not imploded and Wake got #200

    Had Wastefield not given up a homer, 2 passed balls and 5 runs then he would have helped himself get the 200 win HOF career milestone. The good news is that Theo is resting up the hurt players so Wastefield will get that 200th win before year end. The main focus now, since playoffs are locked up, is to get Timmy that 200th win. The team is playing hard and well and wants to get it for him. They tried hard, tonight, but the team simply wasn't very good at scoring runs for Timmy. Timmy did his job and was really solid over those 5 quality innings.

    Red Sox need to be concerned that Timmy might get away in a FA bidding war.

    Playoff starting pitching roster, based upon Moonslow's stat snipets and large sample should be:

    Beckett
    Lester
    Wastefield starting Game 3

    Bedard and Lackey have been terrible and can't match Timmy's numbers. In a playoff atmosphere is where Timmy thrives. It brings out the best in him.

     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from stormcrow7878. Show stormcrow7878's posts

    Re: Hey Moon, Wakefield is no good

    Moon, I have come to a point where I just don't see the point of debating people like Softy or Kimsays...you present them with facts and they either go off on a conspiracy rant, or they present the same insignificant talking point over and over (i.e. "ERA over 5 for 2 years") while having no context at all for that talking point. The other option they go down is to present some fabricated nonesense as their reason for the point they are making (such as the "reverse pivot" argument) I am resolving to TRY not to respond to such lunacy anymore... I would much rather talk to the knowledgeable baseball fans on this board.  Recently I was attacked for being a Yankee fan, as if it something I am trying to hide. I am a proud Yankee fan, I post on several Yankee related boards, and I come to THIS board because I have respect for the Boston fans as knowledgeable passionate group who are fun to talk baseball with. My experiences on this board bear that out...with a few notable excpetions (Softy etc..) Kimsys said I shouldn't even post here because I am not a Sox fan, yet I think there is a lot to be learned from fans of opposing teams, especially your biggest rival... You are the epitome of that so thanks!
     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from dannycater. Show dannycater's posts

    Re: Hey Moon, Wakefield is no good

    In Response to Re: Hey Moon, Wakefield is no good:
    In Response to Re: Hey Moon, Wakefield is no good : no but that would be dcater , harness , and moon 's point... Tim kept them in the game (which is laughable to the rest of us).
    Posted by BurritoT


    The very fact you blame Tim Wakefield for this loss is pretty much indicative of what harness has said about you. I think you can be a very smart poster, and you can be very witty at times, but here you show your complete ignorance. I guess you prefer Lackey and 10 hits over 5 innings, or Miller imploding 4 outs into a game. Would you be saying anything if the Sox bulpen had simply done it's job?
     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from BurritoT. Show BurritoT's posts

    Re: Hey Moon, Wakefield is no good

    I don't prefer any of them. This staff is screwed and the entire team will follow. No chance agaisnt Philly.
     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from dannycater. Show dannycater's posts

    Re: Hey Moon, Wakefield is no good

    good, it's official, you could care less.
     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from BurritoT. Show BurritoT's posts

    Re: Hey Moon, Wakefield is no good

    You guys need to take responsibility for being bananas... Wakefield has failed miserably this season. I was all for his being on the team in the Spring but the time has come to let him go. No spot on the play-off roster only solidifies how wrong you are.
     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from dannycater. Show dannycater's posts

    Re: Hey Moon, Wakefield is no good

    Also, not that it means anything, but if a guy catches another guy and it results in 4 shutout innings against a pretty good lineup, couldn't the manager think outside of the box just once and allow that catcher to catch the knuckler....Tek over Salty who not only does struggle with the pitch, but doesn't know you can mix on a few curves and a few fastballs to improve the performance of the pitcher. The only reason why Tek had a history of not catching Wakefield was the Sox created that environment. I thought he caught him better than anyone this season in the Texas relief job. He called for fastballs at smart moment in the count and he didn't rely strictly on all knuckleballs.
     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from dannycater. Show dannycater's posts

    Re: Hey Moon, Wakefield is no good

    Burrito, I look at what works, and Tito looks at what is predictable.
     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from BurritoT. Show BurritoT's posts

    Re: Hey Moon, Wakefield is no good

    Its at the point where even if Lackey or Wake threw a no hitter their next start you still cannot count on them for the following start.

    I just hate to see Beckett an Bedard have injuries, however small, as it further exposes just how bad the others have been (Lester aside).

    Baseball is along season and to go down like this makes it tough to take.

    The only plus I see is Clay perhaps solidifyin the bullpen for the play-offs. That could be a difference maker.
     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from dannycater. Show dannycater's posts

    Re: Hey Moon, Wakefield is no good

    The Sox pitching staff is in shambles right now, including an over-taxed pen. It's time all the SPs go longer in games, enough of this 5 inning bullshoy.
     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from 111SoxFan111. Show 111SoxFan111's posts

    Re: Hey Moon, Wakefield is no good

    I wonder if fans of other teams have so many intense debates about their #6 starters?

    FWIW, I don't think Timmy has really prevented anyone worthwhile in AAA from getting a shot.  Who exactly has he denied a proper opportunity to prove themselves in the MLB?  Where should Theo/Tito have placed all these precious innings Wake has eaten up?  The only thing that has prevented Miller from getting more innings is, well, pitching better.  Doubront? Injuries.  

    The only argument I can find is that Aceves should be starting.  I personally feel like he might be a better value for the team as a starter but there is definitely an interesting argument to had on the merits of his BP role vs. his potential value starting every 5th game.  Anyway, other than that, I just don't see anyone being blocked here ... and to be clear, Aceves isn't blocked.  I'm sure for TheTito (or is it Theotio?) it is only an issue of the relative values of Aceves starting vs. relieving and that has zero to do with Wake.
     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from ADG. Show ADG's posts

    Re: Hey Moon, Wakefield is no good

    In Response to Re: Hey Moon, Wakefield is no good:
    In Response to Re: Hey Moon, Wakefield is no good : That is a more accurate statement than you can admit to. #4 and #5 do not exist on this team. And now our #1 and # 3 have injuries.
    Posted by BurritoT


    You are absolutely correct. The only starter right now that is above a #4 would be Lester.

    Lackey has the worst ERA in all of baseball for any starter with qualified innings.
    Miller can not be counted on.
    Wakefield has an ERA over 5
    Weiland probably isn't major league ready yet.

    With Beckett out, they have one reliable starter.
     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from ADG. Show ADG's posts

    Re: Hey Moon, Wakefield is no good

    In Response to Re: Hey Moon, Wakefield is no good:
    Wakefield is still better than Lackey.
    Posted by Ice-Cream


    Nobody said he wasn't. Lackey is actually the worst starter (ERA statistically) in all of baseball.
     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from ADG. Show ADG's posts

    Re: Hey Moon, Wakefield is no good

    In Response to Re: Hey Moon, Wakefield is no good:
    And had Bard not imploded and Wake got #200, you'd be no where to be found.
    Posted by harness


    What Bard did had nothing to do with Wakefield. Wakefield was staked to a lead and he proceed to give up 5 runs in the first three innings. He said it himself.
     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from dannycater. Show dannycater's posts

    Re: Hey Moon, Wakefield is no good

    sox, Aceves is very valuable in his 3-inn stint role, but it is an interesting debate to put him back in. He didn't do very well in his few starts.
     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from 111SoxFan111. Show 111SoxFan111's posts

    Re: Hey Moon, Wakefield is no good

    In Response to Re: Hey Moon, Wakefield is no good:
    I'm going to add a little fuel to the fire.  The Sox now have around 45 unearned runs, and Wakefield has 15 or 16 of them.  The next most unearned runs on the Sox is four, and two guys, one of them Lackey, have them. This is not bad luck or coincidence or anything like that.  It's the direct result of the way this guy pitches, especially this year.  His knuckler is either very hittable or almost uncatchable.  I therefore think that his earned run average of around 5 is artificially low (even though it isn't low).
    Posted by maxbialystock

    This is the most intelligent thing said in this thread.  I say this even though I believe Wake is providing a significant team value at his contact rate for this season.
     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from dannycater. Show dannycater's posts

    Re: Hey Moon, Wakefield is no good

    It's uncatchable for Salty, didn't look so uncatchable for Varitek v. Texas....but hey even now that Tek is a backup or 2 start a week guy, it's impossible for Tito to allow him to cach Wakefield. I think it would be magic.

     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from 111SoxFan111. Show 111SoxFan111's posts

    Re: Hey Moon, Wakefield is no good

    Max - FWIW, if you go by runs/9IP (including unearned) here's what you get: 

    Beckett 2.59
    Lester 3.09
    Buchholz 3.70
    Bedard 4.22
    Miller 5.75
    Wake 6.05
    Lackey 6.37
    Weiland 6.75
     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from SFBostonFan. Show SFBostonFan's posts

    Re: Hey Moon, Wakefield is no good

    In Response to Re: Hey Moon, Wakefield is no good:
    In Response to Re: Hey Moon, Wakefield is no good : It is called tongue-in-cheek, not tongue and cheek.  You put your tongue in your cheek to stop yourself from laughing.  Tongue and cheek makes no sense. Just FYI
    Posted by Kamdog


    Just "FYI" back at you !!! Am on the West Coast so just getting to read the rest of the comments on this post and found yours. I wouldn't really have even responded but I'm so angry about the loss which, of course, has nothing to do with your telling me "Tongue and cheek makes no sense", I desired to respond & defend myself and mean it in, hopefully, what will be taken as a friendly rebuttal.

    So, in fact…I would say that “zeitgeist49’s” comments were the epitome of the, expression of tongue & cheek i.e., “rough stretch, 8th attempt, winning 200 is a great milestone, get concerned if not done by his 12th attempt, ERA just over 6.00, # 2 starter, if not this season will get 200th next year, Wake is awesome and so is Theo”.

    Yes , Shakespeare, you are correct that it is spelled tongue-in-cheek but I hope the fact I did not put dashes in did not deter people from its comprehension. Also, you are right about one putting one’s tongue aside one’s cheek to keep from laughing thus it is the antithesis of the phrase - ''with a straight face'’. I reiterate that the comments to which I responded I felt were good synonyms or related words of tongue-in-cheek humor,  jokingly, kiddingly, cleverly amusing in tone, ironically, not seriously, whimsical exaggeration, characterized by insincerity etc.

     
    In Response to Re: Hey Moon, Wakefield is no good:

    Wake  is  just  going  through  a  rough  stretch.  It's  only  his  eighth  attempt  to  win  200.  I'd  keep  him  in  the  lineup  cause  winning  200  is  a  great  milestone.  If  he  doesn't  win  200  by  his  12th  attempt  I'd  start  to  get  concerned. Wake's  ERA  is  just  over  6.00  but  he'll  come  around  in  the  playoffs.  If  Beckett  is  hurt, I'd  list  Wake  as  our  #2  starter  in  the  playoffs.  If  Wake  doesn't  get  200  this  season, I'm  sure  he  get  his  200th  win  next  year.  Wake  is  awesome.  And  so  is  Theo !
    Posted by zeitgeist49


    Love your tongue & cheek humor---I know that when I'm really upset, pissed, disgusted, I try to put a smile on my face and inject some humor into the situation...you, have, and I enjoyed your comments !!!

    Ya know...can't really completely blame Wakefield tonight ---he gave up only 3 hits !!!  As a good gesture, I would not pitch him against a low era pitcher but one from whom we can be expected to hit & give Wake at least 5 runs so that he has a good chance to win # 200.  But that wasn’t the case tonight !!! But after he gets 200, this year or next,  either retire him or let him do some relief for a couple of innings.  I believe he can fool teams the first time around but good hitters figure him out and his slow sinking balls can come across as big as a softball the 2nd or 3rd time around.  Let’s not forget that the “300 club” is among the highest accomplishments a starting pitcher can achieve and only 25 have done it I believe. Some retired  with exactly 300 & a few others right after. It seems that this goal of 200 is a big plum for Wake, the Red Sox & the Fans so let it be and then, let him retire.
     
    Tonight, we're ahead 8-6 and give up 1 hit batter & 3 walks & then the double clears the bases. They get 5 runs on 2 hits & in the 9th, wouldn't you know it, we get 2 runs on 3 hits !!!

    Ah, yes, but our offensive juggernaut got 14 hits to only 8---that's kind off  positive ain't it...+6 hits !!!

    Sorry to appear the prophet of doom but I'm despondent & disgusted !!!

    And to think, the Yankees lost !!!  
     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from soxchamp99. Show soxchamp99's posts

    Re: Hey Moon, Wakefield is no good

    Even though this is not Wake's fault or did he intend it that way, but the quest for 200 has a taken a life of its own and is putting unnecessary pressure on the team. Francona surprisingly took out Wake after 5 innings last night.  Normally he doesn't do that.  Wake wasn't stellar last night but he did settle down the last 2 innings and with a 3 run lead at the time, maybe he could have squeeze a couple more outs from Wake. Now you have to cover 4 innings with your bp and it's a tall order given the inconsistency from the middle relief. It backfired on him.

    Bard after the game was quoted as saying they were all trying to get the win for Wake. Not that it may have anything to do with his implosion but the pressure of knowing you have to pitch well so Wake can get his 200th win certainly doesn't help. Maybe he was trying a little too hard, who knows?
     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from Alibiike. Show Alibiike's posts

    Re: Hey Moon, Wakefield is no good

    In Response to Re: Hey Moon, Wakefield is no good:
    I'm going to add a little fuel to the fire.  The Sox now have around 45 unearned runs, and Wakefield has 15 or 16 of them.  The next most unearned runs on the Sox is four, and two guys, one of them Lackey, have them. This is not bad luck or coincidence or anything like that.  It's the direct result of the way this guy pitches, especially this year.  His knuckler is either very hittable or almost uncatchable.  I therefore think that his earned run average of around 5 is artificially low (even though it isn't low).  That is, when there is an error and he then gives up a bunch of runs which are "unearned," he is getting off the hook for what in reality was an error plus lousy pitching.  Wakefield needs to go.  Maybe not immediately because the Sox are already committed in the near term to starting Miller and Weiland in addition to Lackey, Lester, and Wakefield, but soon.  After his last outing when he went 4 shutout innings in relief, I had the gall to say he had an outside shot at the playoffs, but I don't think that now. 
    Posted by maxbialystock


    Very hittable or uncatchable. What a maroon.
    The reason Salty can't catch the ball is that he can't catch the ball. He has several PBs other than with Wake. Vmart caught Wake last year and had 4 PBs all season, for all pitchers. Explain that away.
    Unearned runs are cause by more than PBs, and WPs could be avoided with a catcher behind the plate that knew how to block pitches.
     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Hey Moon, Wakefield is no good

    In Response to Re: Hey Moon, Wakefield is no good:
    In Response to Re: Hey Moon, Wakefield is no good : Nobody said he wasn't. Lackey is actually the worst starter (ERA statistically) in all of baseball.
    Posted by ADG


    And Miller is the worst in 2010-2011 combined (WHIP statistically). These are the two guys you want over Wake.

    Coming from you, it makes sense, since you see the opposite of what is there. 

     
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