HOF Votes

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from djcbuffum. Show djcbuffum's posts

    HOF Votes

    Who gets yours?

     

    PlayerVotesPercent
    Jack Morris    
    Jeff Bagwell    
    Lee Smith    
    Tim Raines    
    Alan Trammell    
    Edgar Martínez    
    Fred McGriff    
    Larry Walker    
    Mark McGwire    
    Don Mattingly    
    Dale Murphy    
    Rafael Palmeiro    
    Bernie Williams    
    Sandy Alomar, Jr.    
    Craig Biggio    
    Barry Bonds    
    Jeff Cirillo    
    Royce Clayton    
    Roger Clemens    
    Jeff Conine    
    Steve Finley    
    Julio Franco    
    Shawn Green    
    Roberto Hernández    
    Ryan Klesko    
    Kenny Lofton    
    José Mesa    
    Mike Piazza    
    Reggie Sanders    
    Curt Schilling    
    Aaron Sele    
    Sammy Sosa    
    Mike Stanton    
    Todd Walker    
    David Wells    
    Rondell White    
    Woody Williams
     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from djcbuffum. Show djcbuffum's posts

    Re: HOF Votes

    I think the evidence is strong enough that Bonds, Clemens, Sosa, McGuire and Palmiero used steroids that I wouldn't vote for any of them.  I'd vote "yes" on Bagwell, Schilling, Martinez and Piazza.  I'd have to look closed at Morris, Trammel, Raines, and McGriff.

     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from Joebreidey. Show Joebreidey's posts

    Re: HOF Votes

    • Smith (was all-time saves leader at one point)
    • Murphy (B2B MVP, multiple up-the-middle GG winner with 396 HR before PEDs
    • Trammell (better overall than Ozzie)
    • Morris (really good, with great playoff moments)
    • Raines (on base ~ 4,000 times, 

    No one elite.  Bonds was elite, but cheated.

     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from mef429. Show mef429's posts

    Re: HOF Votes

    i like Cafardos explanation on how he is going to vote.. ill try to find the link to it.

    http://www.boston.com/sports/baseball/redsox/extras/extra_bases/2012/11/erasing_a_line.html

    this is a pretty good read. his main explanation is that the HoF is a museum of the game and steroids were a BIG part of its history. can't really argue with his new stance as it is a sound argument and is fair to entire pool of steroid era players (cheaters or not).

     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from djcbuffum. Show djcbuffum's posts

    Re: HOF Votes

    In response to mef429's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    i like Cafardos explanation on how he is going to vote.. ill try to find the link to it.

    http://www.boston.com/sports/baseball/redsox/extras/extra_bases/2012/11/erasing_a_line.html

    this is a pretty good read. his main explanation is that the HoF is a museum of the game and steroids were a BIG part of its history. can't really argue with his new stance as it is a sound argument and is fair to entire pool of steroid era players (cheaters or not).

    [/QUOTE]

    I don't like the argument that the voters should just abdicate their responsibility to be discerning in maters of PEDs.  If you want to give a "reasonable doubt" to players, that's great.  But make a case-by-case decision, and if the evidence is overwhelming, keep them out.  Examine the facts and make an informed decision; don't just throw up your hands and let 'em all in.  That's just dodging responsibility.

     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from djcbuffum. Show djcbuffum's posts

    Re: HOF Votes

    And while it's true that the HOF is a museum of the history of the game, and steroids are a part of the game, it's also true that the HOF is actually just one exhibit of the museum -- the best of the best (suppoedly) -- and there's an entire museum surrounding the HOF that's devoted to the rest of the history.  Further, most fans will never see the museum, but just the list of inductees.  To those fans it is less of a museum and more of an honor or award. 

     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from Ice-Cream. Show Ice-Cream's posts

    Re: HOF Votes

     

    Curt Schilling and Trammell (who should have won the 1987 AL MVP instead of George Bell of Toronto). 

     

     

     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from Drewski5. Show Drewski5's posts

    Re: HOF Votes

    The only players who should be excluded due to PEDs are ones who have actually tested positive.  You cant disqualify someone due to suspicion, no matter how much circumstantial evidence may exist.

    Bagwell

    L. Walker

    Schilling

    FWIW, Schilling's stats are better than Morris almost across the board.

    LOL to Todd Walker being on the list.  A .290 , 15 HR/ yr , lousy D second baseman.  Never received an MVP vote in his life.  Loved him in 03, but on the HOF ballot?  Really?

    FYI: I put a lot of stock into how many years were you seriously considered for an MVP.

     
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  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from Drewski5. Show Drewski5's posts

    Re: HOF Votes

    In 1994 Bagwell had 39 HRs in only 400 at-bats (.750 slugging % !!!).  He batted .368 that year and won a GG.

     

     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from Drewski5. Show Drewski5's posts

    Re: HOF Votes

    Bagwell's 94 season may be teh best season ever by any player not named Bonds or Ruth.

    He's the only clear cut in, IMO.

    However, Id vote for L. Walker and Schilling too.  Maybe Biggio as well.

     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from Drewski5. Show Drewski5's posts

    Re: HOF Votes

    By the way, Bagwell only had 400 at bats in 94 because of the strike.

     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from Joebreidey. Show Joebreidey's posts

    Re: HOF Votes

    In response to Drewski5's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Bagwell's 94 season may be teh best season ever by any player not named Bonds or Ruth.

    He's the only clear cut in, IMO.

    However, Id vote for L. Walker and Schilling too.  Maybe Biggio as well.

    [/QUOTE]

    I thought only 4 AS appearances hurts Bagwell's chances.

     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from Drewski5. Show Drewski5's posts

    Re: HOF Votes

    In response to Joebreidey's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to Drewski5's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Bagwell's 94 season may be teh best season ever by any player not named Bonds or Ruth.

    He's the only clear cut in, IMO.

    However, Id vote for L. Walker and Schilling too.  Maybe Biggio as well.

    [/QUOTE]

    I thought only 4 AS appearances hurts Bagwell's chances.

    [/QUOTE]

    Probably does, but what the heck is up with all of those all-star snubs anyways?  Bagwell received an MVP vote in a year where he did not make the all-star team six times.  How the heck does that happen?

     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from Drewski5. Show Drewski5's posts

    Re: HOF Votes

    I'm looking back on it, and it looks like Bagwell lost some all-star bids to Braves players (McGriff, Galaragga).  I'm thinking that the fact that the Braves were on national TV helped their players get in w/ fan voting.

    It also didnt help that his career coincided with Maguire, whose celebrity status was through the roof throughout the nineties.

     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from vtfanofcs. Show vtfanofcs's posts

    Re: HOF Votes

      Bagwell Bonds Biggio Clemens Piazza in

      Mcgwire and Palmeiro someday

      Raines Smith Schilling Morris McGriff future maybes

      Sosa corked his bat because steroids weren't enough

     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from Hetchinspete. Show Hetchinspete's posts

    Re: HOF Votes

    In response to Drewski5's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    I'm looking back on it, and it looks like Bagwell lost some all-star bids to Braves players (McGriff, Galaragga).  I'm thinking that the fact that the Braves were on national TV helped their players get in w/ fan voting.

    It also didnt help that his career coincided with Maguire, whose celebrity status was through the roof throughout the nineties.

    [/QUOTE]

    Drewski, 

    If the voters choose to ignore, Bonds and Clemens, Bagwell is the only player of the bunch up this year who should be a clear choice. If he'd played a few more years and got to the magic 500hr mark he'd probably be a clearer choice to the voters, but his stats speak for themselves, especially a lifetime .408obp which ranks up there at 29th all time and up with many of the great already in the HOF. Bagwell was one trade that never should have been made. 

    Hetch

     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from notin. Show notin's posts

    Re: HOF Votes

    Very little love for Biggio and his 3, 000 hits.

     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from kimsaysthis. Show kimsaysthis's posts

    Re: HOF Votes

    If baseball tested everyone evenly, and throughout the season instead of "random" LOL testing and only at the beginning, then you could say to only exclude those who test positive. For instance, if you're HUGE, and the Yankees scoop you up just to smack HRs for them, I think that could be evidence of PEDs.

    As for the All Star voting, I would equate that to American Idol voting -- more to do with politics in baseball than actually counting personal votes.

     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from Drewski5. Show Drewski5's posts

    Re: HOF Votes

    In response to notin's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Very little love for Biggio and his 3, 000 hits.

    [/QUOTE]


    Notin, I feel that Biggio has the best chance of getting in. 

     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from Schumpeters-Ghost. Show Schumpeters-Ghost's posts

    Re: HOF Votes

    In response to Drewski5's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to notin's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Very little love for Biggio and his 3, 000 hits.

    [/QUOTE]


    Notin, I feel that Biggio has the best chance of getting in. 

    [/QUOTE]


     

    I agree.  Biggio was tremendous and the best player at his position in his league for many years.

    I'd also like to see Lee Smith get some love.  The guy was the all time saves leader when he retired.

    Trammell - an absolute yes. 

    If we ignore PEDs - there are obviously a lot more on the list that get in.

     

     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from nhsteven. Show nhsteven's posts

    Re: HOF Votes

    In response to kimsaysthis' comment:
    [QUOTE]

    If baseball tested everyone evenly, and throughout the season instead of "random" LOL testing and only at the beginning, then you could say to only exclude those who test positive. For instance, if you're HUGE, and the Yankees scoop you up just to smack HRs for them, I think that could be evidence of PEDs.

    As for the All Star voting, I would equate that to American Idol voting -- more to do with politics in baseball than actually counting personal votes.

    [/QUOTE]

    You're obsessed; and BTW, whether you think so or not; the RS have about as many cheaters as the NYY and any other team.

     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from kimsaysthis. Show kimsaysthis's posts

    Re: HOF Votes

    In response to nhsteven's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to kimsaysthis' comment:
    [QUOTE]

    If baseball tested everyone evenly, and throughout the season instead of "random" LOL testing and only at the beginning, then you could say to only exclude those who test positive. For instance, if you're HUGE, and the Yankees scoop you up just to smack HRs for them, I think that could be evidence of PEDs.

    As for the All Star voting, I would equate that to American Idol voting -- more to do with politics in baseball than actually counting personal votes.

    [/QUOTE]

    You're obsessed; and BTW, whether you think so or not; the RS have about as many cheaters as the NYY and any other team.

    [/QUOTE]


    What huge player did the Red Sox acquire to hit homeruns for them? I bet anyone on this board can name plenty for the Yankees.

     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from nhsteven. Show nhsteven's posts

    Re: HOF Votes

    In response to kimsaysthis' comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to nhsteven's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to kimsaysthis' comment:
    [QUOTE]

    If baseball tested everyone evenly, and throughout the season instead of "random" LOL testing and only at the beginning, then you could say to only exclude those who test positive. For instance, if you're HUGE, and the Yankees scoop you up just to smack HRs for them, I think that could be evidence of PEDs.

    As for the All Star voting, I would equate that to American Idol voting -- more to do with politics in baseball than actually counting personal votes.

    [/QUOTE]

    You're obsessed; and BTW, whether you think so or not; the RS have about as many cheaters as the NYY and any other team.

    [/QUOTE]


    What huge player did the Red Sox acquire to hit homeruns for them? I bet anyone on this board can name plenty for the Yankees.

    [/QUOTE]

    U mean like Vaughn, Garciaparra, Manny, Ortiz, Stanley, Wily Mo, Hinske, Jeremi Giambi, Javy Lopez, Kapler, Lowell, Victor, AGon, Ross, & Napoli?

     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from Sheriff-Rojas. Show Sheriff-Rojas's posts

    Re: HOF Votes

    In response to Drewski5's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    The only players who should be excluded due to PEDs are ones who have actually tested positive.  You cant disqualify someone due to suspicion, no matter how much circumstantial evidence may exist.

    Bagwell

    L. Walker

    Schilling

    FWIW, Schilling's stats are better than Morris almost across the board.

    LOL to Todd Walker being on the list.  A .290 , 15 HR/ yr , lousy D second baseman.  Never received an MVP vote in his life.  Loved him in 03, but on the HOF ballot?  Really?

    FYI: I put a lot of stock into how many years were you seriously considered for an MVP.

    [/QUOTE]

    Damn you Drewski!  You stole my thunder.  I wanted to be the first to suggest the Legendary Todd Walker.  

     

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