HOF Votes

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from Joebreidey. Show Joebreidey's posts

    Re: HOF Votes

    • Smith (was all-time saves leader at one point)
    • Murphy (B2B MVP, multiple up-the-middle GG winner with 396 HR before PEDs
    • Trammell (better overall than Ozzie)
    • Morris (really good, with great playoff moments)
    • Raines (on base ~ 4,000 times, 

    No one elite.  Bonds was elite, but cheated.

     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from mef429. Show mef429's posts

    Re: HOF Votes

    i like Cafardos explanation on how he is going to vote.. ill try to find the link to it.

    http://www.boston.com/sports/baseball/redsox/extras/extra_bases/2012/11/erasing_a_line.html

    this is a pretty good read. his main explanation is that the HoF is a museum of the game and steroids were a BIG part of its history. can't really argue with his new stance as it is a sound argument and is fair to entire pool of steroid era players (cheaters or not).

     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from Ice-Cream. Show Ice-Cream's posts

    Re: HOF Votes

     

    Curt Schilling and Trammell (who should have won the 1987 AL MVP instead of George Bell of Toronto). 

     

     

     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from Drewski5. Show Drewski5's posts

    Re: HOF Votes

    The only players who should be excluded due to PEDs are ones who have actually tested positive.  You cant disqualify someone due to suspicion, no matter how much circumstantial evidence may exist.

    Bagwell

    L. Walker

    Schilling

    FWIW, Schilling's stats are better than Morris almost across the board.

    LOL to Todd Walker being on the list.  A .290 , 15 HR/ yr , lousy D second baseman.  Never received an MVP vote in his life.  Loved him in 03, but on the HOF ballot?  Really?

    FYI: I put a lot of stock into how many years were you seriously considered for an MVP.

     
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  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from Drewski5. Show Drewski5's posts

    Re: HOF Votes

    In 1994 Bagwell had 39 HRs in only 400 at-bats (.750 slugging % !!!).  He batted .368 that year and won a GG.

     

     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from Drewski5. Show Drewski5's posts

    Re: HOF Votes

    Bagwell's 94 season may be teh best season ever by any player not named Bonds or Ruth.

    He's the only clear cut in, IMO.

    However, Id vote for L. Walker and Schilling too.  Maybe Biggio as well.

     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from Drewski5. Show Drewski5's posts

    Re: HOF Votes

    By the way, Bagwell only had 400 at bats in 94 because of the strike.

     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from Joebreidey. Show Joebreidey's posts

    Re: HOF Votes

    In response to Drewski5's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Bagwell's 94 season may be teh best season ever by any player not named Bonds or Ruth.

    He's the only clear cut in, IMO.

    However, Id vote for L. Walker and Schilling too.  Maybe Biggio as well.

    [/QUOTE]

    I thought only 4 AS appearances hurts Bagwell's chances.

     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from Drewski5. Show Drewski5's posts

    Re: HOF Votes

    In response to Joebreidey's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to Drewski5's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Bagwell's 94 season may be teh best season ever by any player not named Bonds or Ruth.

    He's the only clear cut in, IMO.

    However, Id vote for L. Walker and Schilling too.  Maybe Biggio as well.

    [/QUOTE]

    I thought only 4 AS appearances hurts Bagwell's chances.

    [/QUOTE]

    Probably does, but what the heck is up with all of those all-star snubs anyways?  Bagwell received an MVP vote in a year where he did not make the all-star team six times.  How the heck does that happen?

     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from Drewski5. Show Drewski5's posts

    Re: HOF Votes

    I'm looking back on it, and it looks like Bagwell lost some all-star bids to Braves players (McGriff, Galaragga).  I'm thinking that the fact that the Braves were on national TV helped their players get in w/ fan voting.

    It also didnt help that his career coincided with Maguire, whose celebrity status was through the roof throughout the nineties.

     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from vtfanofcs. Show vtfanofcs's posts

    Re: HOF Votes

      Bagwell Bonds Biggio Clemens Piazza in

      Mcgwire and Palmeiro someday

      Raines Smith Schilling Morris McGriff future maybes

      Sosa corked his bat because steroids weren't enough

     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from Hetchinspete. Show Hetchinspete's posts

    Re: HOF Votes

    In response to Drewski5's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    I'm looking back on it, and it looks like Bagwell lost some all-star bids to Braves players (McGriff, Galaragga).  I'm thinking that the fact that the Braves were on national TV helped their players get in w/ fan voting.

    It also didnt help that his career coincided with Maguire, whose celebrity status was through the roof throughout the nineties.

    [/QUOTE]

    Drewski, 

    If the voters choose to ignore, Bonds and Clemens, Bagwell is the only player of the bunch up this year who should be a clear choice. If he'd played a few more years and got to the magic 500hr mark he'd probably be a clearer choice to the voters, but his stats speak for themselves, especially a lifetime .408obp which ranks up there at 29th all time and up with many of the great already in the HOF. Bagwell was one trade that never should have been made. 

    Hetch

     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from notin. Show notin's posts

    Re: HOF Votes

    Very little love for Biggio and his 3, 000 hits.

     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from kimsaysthis. Show kimsaysthis's posts

    Re: HOF Votes

    If baseball tested everyone evenly, and throughout the season instead of "random" LOL testing and only at the beginning, then you could say to only exclude those who test positive. For instance, if you're HUGE, and the Yankees scoop you up just to smack HRs for them, I think that could be evidence of PEDs.

    As for the All Star voting, I would equate that to American Idol voting -- more to do with politics in baseball than actually counting personal votes.

     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from Drewski5. Show Drewski5's posts

    Re: HOF Votes

    In response to notin's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Very little love for Biggio and his 3, 000 hits.

    [/QUOTE]


    Notin, I feel that Biggio has the best chance of getting in. 

     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from Schumpeters-Ghost. Show Schumpeters-Ghost's posts

    Re: HOF Votes

    In response to Drewski5's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to notin's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Very little love for Biggio and his 3, 000 hits.

    [/QUOTE]


    Notin, I feel that Biggio has the best chance of getting in. 

    [/QUOTE]


     

    I agree.  Biggio was tremendous and the best player at his position in his league for many years.

    I'd also like to see Lee Smith get some love.  The guy was the all time saves leader when he retired.

    Trammell - an absolute yes. 

    If we ignore PEDs - there are obviously a lot more on the list that get in.

     

     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from nhsteven. Show nhsteven's posts

    Re: HOF Votes

    In response to kimsaysthis' comment:
    [QUOTE]

    If baseball tested everyone evenly, and throughout the season instead of "random" LOL testing and only at the beginning, then you could say to only exclude those who test positive. For instance, if you're HUGE, and the Yankees scoop you up just to smack HRs for them, I think that could be evidence of PEDs.

    As for the All Star voting, I would equate that to American Idol voting -- more to do with politics in baseball than actually counting personal votes.

    [/QUOTE]

    You're obsessed; and BTW, whether you think so or not; the RS have about as many cheaters as the NYY and any other team.

     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from kimsaysthis. Show kimsaysthis's posts

    Re: HOF Votes

    In response to nhsteven's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to kimsaysthis' comment:
    [QUOTE]

    If baseball tested everyone evenly, and throughout the season instead of "random" LOL testing and only at the beginning, then you could say to only exclude those who test positive. For instance, if you're HUGE, and the Yankees scoop you up just to smack HRs for them, I think that could be evidence of PEDs.

    As for the All Star voting, I would equate that to American Idol voting -- more to do with politics in baseball than actually counting personal votes.

    [/QUOTE]

    You're obsessed; and BTW, whether you think so or not; the RS have about as many cheaters as the NYY and any other team.

    [/QUOTE]


    What huge player did the Red Sox acquire to hit homeruns for them? I bet anyone on this board can name plenty for the Yankees.

     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from nhsteven. Show nhsteven's posts

    Re: HOF Votes

    In response to kimsaysthis' comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to nhsteven's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to kimsaysthis' comment:
    [QUOTE]

    If baseball tested everyone evenly, and throughout the season instead of "random" LOL testing and only at the beginning, then you could say to only exclude those who test positive. For instance, if you're HUGE, and the Yankees scoop you up just to smack HRs for them, I think that could be evidence of PEDs.

    As for the All Star voting, I would equate that to American Idol voting -- more to do with politics in baseball than actually counting personal votes.

    [/QUOTE]

    You're obsessed; and BTW, whether you think so or not; the RS have about as many cheaters as the NYY and any other team.

    [/QUOTE]


    What huge player did the Red Sox acquire to hit homeruns for them? I bet anyone on this board can name plenty for the Yankees.

    [/QUOTE]

    U mean like Vaughn, Garciaparra, Manny, Ortiz, Stanley, Wily Mo, Hinske, Jeremi Giambi, Javy Lopez, Kapler, Lowell, Victor, AGon, Ross, & Napoli?

     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from Sheriff-Rojas. Show Sheriff-Rojas's posts

    Re: HOF Votes

    In response to Drewski5's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    The only players who should be excluded due to PEDs are ones who have actually tested positive.  You cant disqualify someone due to suspicion, no matter how much circumstantial evidence may exist.

    Bagwell

    L. Walker

    Schilling

    FWIW, Schilling's stats are better than Morris almost across the board.

    LOL to Todd Walker being on the list.  A .290 , 15 HR/ yr , lousy D second baseman.  Never received an MVP vote in his life.  Loved him in 03, but on the HOF ballot?  Really?

    FYI: I put a lot of stock into how many years were you seriously considered for an MVP.

    [/QUOTE]

    Damn you Drewski!  You stole my thunder.  I wanted to be the first to suggest the Legendary Todd Walker.  

     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from kimsaysthis. Show kimsaysthis's posts

    Re: HOF Votes

    In response to nhsteven's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to kimsaysthis' comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to nhsteven's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to kimsaysthis' comment:
    [QUOTE]

    If baseball tested everyone evenly, and throughout the season instead of "random" LOL testing and only at the beginning, then you could say to only exclude those who test positive. For instance, if you're HUGE, and the Yankees scoop you up just to smack HRs for them, I think that could be evidence of PEDs.

    As for the All Star voting, I would equate that to American Idol voting -- more to do with politics in baseball than actually counting personal votes.

    [/QUOTE]

    You're obsessed; and BTW, whether you think so or not; the RS have about as many cheaters as the NYY and any other team.

    [/QUOTE]


    What huge player did the Red Sox acquire to hit homeruns for them? I bet anyone on this board can name plenty for the Yankees.

    [/QUOTE]

    U mean like Vaughn, Garciaparra, Manny, Ortiz, Stanley, Wily Mo, Hinske, Jeremi Giambi, Javy Lopez, Kapler, Lowell, AGon, Ross, & Napoli?

    [/QUOTE]


    Was Garciarparra huge? Manny wasn't doing steroids until he had to, that's when Torre decided to take him. Was Hinske huge? Kapler? Wasn't Mike Lowell added into a deal? Agon really isn't that huge either. I can't believe you even put Ross as huge. And Napoli remains to be seen. Since I don't know enough about the others, I would bet they weren't that big of a deal. Andruw Jones on the other hand was.

     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from nhsteven. Show nhsteven's posts

    Re: HOF Votes

    In response to kimsaysthis' comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to nhsteven's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to kimsaysthis' comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to nhsteven's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to kimsaysthis' comment:
    [QUOTE]

    If baseball tested everyone evenly, and throughout the season instead of "random" LOL testing and only at the beginning, then you could say to only exclude those who test positive. For instance, if you're HUGE, and the Yankees scoop you up just to smack HRs for them, I think that could be evidence of PEDs.

    As for the All Star voting, I would equate that to American Idol voting -- more to do with politics in baseball than actually counting personal votes.

    [/QUOTE]

    You're obsessed; and BTW, whether you think so or not; the RS have about as many cheaters as the NYY and any other team.

    [/QUOTE]


    What huge player did the Red Sox acquire to hit homeruns for them? I bet anyone on this board can name plenty for the Yankees.

    [/QUOTE]

    U mean like Vaughn, Garciaparra, Manny, Ortiz, Stanley, Wily Mo, Hinske, Jeremi Giambi, Javy Lopez, Kapler, Lowell, AGon, Ross, & Napoli?

    [/QUOTE]


    Was Garciarparra huge? Manny wasn't doing steroids until he had to, that's when Torre decided to take him. Was Hinske huge? Kapler? Wasn't Mike Lowell added into a deal? Agon really isn't that huge either. I can't believe you even put Ross as huge? And Napoli remains to be seen. Since I don't know enough about the others, I would bet they weren't that big of a deal. Andruw Jones on the other hand was.

    [/QUOTE]

    If you don't think Garciaparra & Lowell were doing them, I don't know what to say. Ever look at Lowell in a Marlins uniform when he hit 40+ HRs? How do you think he got that bad hip? Why did Nomar break down so soon? And to think Manny wasn't doing it then because it makes you feel better to believe that is ridiculous. AJones is not exactly "huge" either. He hit 51 HRs once while a gazelle in CF; but I do believe he's done them. Is ARod huge? Palmiero? And we know they're guilty. The only really 'huge' guys I can think of are the Giambi Bros, McGwire, Bonds, Hill, Bagwell, Fielder (Dad & Son), Piazza, and perhaps a few others. But that's not the point; you have a Yankee related problem.

     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from kimsaysthis. Show kimsaysthis's posts

    Re: HOF Votes

    In response to nhsteven's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to kimsaysthis' comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to nhsteven's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to kimsaysthis' comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to nhsteven's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to kimsaysthis' comment:
    [QUOTE]

    If baseball tested everyone evenly, and throughout the season instead of "random" LOL testing and only at the beginning, then you could say to only exclude those who test positive. For instance, if you're HUGE, and the Yankees scoop you up just to smack HRs for them, I think that could be evidence of PEDs.

    As for the All Star voting, I would equate that to American Idol voting -- more to do with politics in baseball than actually counting personal votes.

    [/QUOTE]

    You're obsessed; and BTW, whether you think so or not; the RS have about as many cheaters as the NYY and any other team.

    [/QUOTE]


    What huge player did the Red Sox acquire to hit homeruns for them? I bet anyone on this board can name plenty for the Yankees.

    [/QUOTE]

    U mean like Vaughn, Garciaparra, Manny, Ortiz, Stanley, Wily Mo, Hinske, Jeremi Giambi, Javy Lopez, Kapler, Lowell, AGon, Ross, & Napoli?

    [/QUOTE]


    Was Garciarparra huge? Manny wasn't doing steroids until he had to, that's when Torre decided to take him. Was Hinske huge? Kapler? Wasn't Mike Lowell added into a deal? Agon really isn't that huge either. I can't believe you even put Ross as huge? And Napoli remains to be seen. Since I don't know enough about the others, I would bet they weren't that big of a deal. Andruw Jones on the other hand was.

    [/QUOTE]

    If you don't think Garciaparra & Lowell were doing them, I don't know what to say. Ever look at Lowell in a Marlins uniform when he hit 40+ HRs? How do you think he got that bad hip? Why did Nomar break down so soon? And to think Manny wasn't doing it then because it makes you feel better to believe that is ridiculous. AJ is not exactly "huge" either. He hit 51 HRs once while a gazelle in CF. Is ARod huge? Palmiero? And we know they're guilty. The only really 'huge' guys I can think of are the Giambi Bros, McGwire, Bonds, Hill, Bagwell, Piazza, and perhaps a few others. But that's not the point; you have a Yankee related problem.

    [/QUOTE]


    I said Huge players the RS acquired just to hit HRs. You seemed to make a list of players perhaps you thought did PEDs while on the Sox. I know that Garciaparra is not huge and was not brought to the Sox just to smack HRs. Again, Lowell was in a trade. So, not huge and brought to the Sox to hit HRs. Try to stick to the subject. I believe the Yankees intentionally sign huge players just to smack hrs. And it's a short-lived contract. Just for the purpose of that particular time period and then they're gone. And the next are brought in.

    IMO the Yankees, even though it's supposedly illegal in baseball, find these players and add them to the roster as hired guns. And they know it when they do it.

     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from nhsteven. Show nhsteven's posts

    Re: HOF Votes

    The subject is not clear cut, as it crosses other boundaries; regardless, if anybody veered from the subject it was you, since this is a HOF thread, and you jumped from that via PEDs to your NYY obsession.

     

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