HOF Votes

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from kimsaysthis. Show kimsaysthis's posts

    Re: HOF Votes

    In response to nhsteven's comment:
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    In response to kimsaysthis' comment:
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    In response to nhsteven's comment:
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    In response to kimsaysthis' comment:
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    If baseball tested everyone evenly, and throughout the season instead of "random" LOL testing and only at the beginning, then you could say to only exclude those who test positive. For instance, if you're HUGE, and the Yankees scoop you up just to smack HRs for them, I think that could be evidence of PEDs.

    As for the All Star voting, I would equate that to American Idol voting -- more to do with politics in baseball than actually counting personal votes.

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    You're obsessed; and BTW, whether you think so or not; the RS have about as many cheaters as the NYY and any other team.

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    What huge player did the Red Sox acquire to hit homeruns for them? I bet anyone on this board can name plenty for the Yankees.

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    U mean like Vaughn, Garciaparra, Manny, Ortiz, Stanley, Wily Mo, Hinske, Jeremi Giambi, Javy Lopez, Kapler, Lowell, AGon, Ross, & Napoli?

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    Was Garciarparra huge? Manny wasn't doing steroids until he had to, that's when Torre decided to take him. Was Hinske huge? Kapler? Wasn't Mike Lowell added into a deal? Agon really isn't that huge either. I can't believe you even put Ross as huge. And Napoli remains to be seen. Since I don't know enough about the others, I would bet they weren't that big of a deal. Andruw Jones on the other hand was.

     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from nhsteven. Show nhsteven's posts

    Re: HOF Votes

    In response to kimsaysthis' comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to nhsteven's comment:
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    In response to kimsaysthis' comment:
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    In response to nhsteven's comment:
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    In response to kimsaysthis' comment:
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    If baseball tested everyone evenly, and throughout the season instead of "random" LOL testing and only at the beginning, then you could say to only exclude those who test positive. For instance, if you're HUGE, and the Yankees scoop you up just to smack HRs for them, I think that could be evidence of PEDs.

    As for the All Star voting, I would equate that to American Idol voting -- more to do with politics in baseball than actually counting personal votes.

    [/QUOTE]

    You're obsessed; and BTW, whether you think so or not; the RS have about as many cheaters as the NYY and any other team.

    [/QUOTE]


    What huge player did the Red Sox acquire to hit homeruns for them? I bet anyone on this board can name plenty for the Yankees.

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    U mean like Vaughn, Garciaparra, Manny, Ortiz, Stanley, Wily Mo, Hinske, Jeremi Giambi, Javy Lopez, Kapler, Lowell, AGon, Ross, & Napoli?

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    Was Garciarparra huge? Manny wasn't doing steroids until he had to, that's when Torre decided to take him. Was Hinske huge? Kapler? Wasn't Mike Lowell added into a deal? Agon really isn't that huge either. I can't believe you even put Ross as huge? And Napoli remains to be seen. Since I don't know enough about the others, I would bet they weren't that big of a deal. Andruw Jones on the other hand was.

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    If you don't think Garciaparra & Lowell were doing them, I don't know what to say. Ever look at Lowell in a Marlins uniform when he hit 40+ HRs? How do you think he got that bad hip? Why did Nomar break down so soon? And to think Manny wasn't doing it then because it makes you feel better to believe that is ridiculous. AJones is not exactly "huge" either. He hit 51 HRs once while a gazelle in CF; but I do believe he's done them. Is ARod huge? Palmiero? And we know they're guilty. The only really 'huge' guys I can think of are the Giambi Bros, McGwire, Bonds, Hill, Bagwell, Fielder (Dad & Son), Piazza, and perhaps a few others. But that's not the point; you have a Yankee related problem.

     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from kimsaysthis. Show kimsaysthis's posts

    Re: HOF Votes

    In response to nhsteven's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to kimsaysthis' comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to nhsteven's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to kimsaysthis' comment:
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    In response to nhsteven's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to kimsaysthis' comment:
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    If baseball tested everyone evenly, and throughout the season instead of "random" LOL testing and only at the beginning, then you could say to only exclude those who test positive. For instance, if you're HUGE, and the Yankees scoop you up just to smack HRs for them, I think that could be evidence of PEDs.

    As for the All Star voting, I would equate that to American Idol voting -- more to do with politics in baseball than actually counting personal votes.

    [/QUOTE]

    You're obsessed; and BTW, whether you think so or not; the RS have about as many cheaters as the NYY and any other team.

    [/QUOTE]


    What huge player did the Red Sox acquire to hit homeruns for them? I bet anyone on this board can name plenty for the Yankees.

    [/QUOTE]

    U mean like Vaughn, Garciaparra, Manny, Ortiz, Stanley, Wily Mo, Hinske, Jeremi Giambi, Javy Lopez, Kapler, Lowell, AGon, Ross, & Napoli?

    [/QUOTE]


    Was Garciarparra huge? Manny wasn't doing steroids until he had to, that's when Torre decided to take him. Was Hinske huge? Kapler? Wasn't Mike Lowell added into a deal? Agon really isn't that huge either. I can't believe you even put Ross as huge? And Napoli remains to be seen. Since I don't know enough about the others, I would bet they weren't that big of a deal. Andruw Jones on the other hand was.

    [/QUOTE]

    If you don't think Garciaparra & Lowell were doing them, I don't know what to say. Ever look at Lowell in a Marlins uniform when he hit 40+ HRs? How do you think he got that bad hip? Why did Nomar break down so soon? And to think Manny wasn't doing it then because it makes you feel better to believe that is ridiculous. AJ is not exactly "huge" either. He hit 51 HRs once while a gazelle in CF. Is ARod huge? Palmiero? And we know they're guilty. The only really 'huge' guys I can think of are the Giambi Bros, McGwire, Bonds, Hill, Bagwell, Piazza, and perhaps a few others. But that's not the point; you have a Yankee related problem.

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    I said Huge players the RS acquired just to hit HRs. You seemed to make a list of players perhaps you thought did PEDs while on the Sox. I know that Garciaparra is not huge and was not brought to the Sox just to smack HRs. Again, Lowell was in a trade. So, not huge and brought to the Sox to hit HRs. Try to stick to the subject. I believe the Yankees intentionally sign huge players just to smack hrs. And it's a short-lived contract. Just for the purpose of that particular time period and then they're gone. And the next are brought in.

    IMO the Yankees, even though it's supposedly illegal in baseball, find these players and add them to the roster as hired guns. And they know it when they do it.

     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from nhsteven. Show nhsteven's posts

    Re: HOF Votes

    The subject is not clear cut, as it crosses other boundaries; regardless, if anybody veered from the subject it was you, since this is a HOF thread, and you jumped from that via PEDs to your NYY obsession.

     
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  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from SonicsMonksLyresVicars. Show SonicsMonksLyresVicars's posts

    Re: HOF Votes

    In response to Joebreidey's comment:
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    • Smith (was all-time saves leader at one point)
    • Murphy (B2B MVP, multiple up-the-middle GG winner with 396 HR before PEDs
    • Trammell (better overall than Ozzie)
    • Morris (really good, with great playoff moments)
    • Raines (on base ~ 4,000 times, 

    No one elite.  Bonds was elite, but cheated.

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    Of those 5, I'd make Raines and Trammell a yes and the other 3 a no.  Morris a thundering no.

     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from SonicsMonksLyresVicars. Show SonicsMonksLyresVicars's posts

    Re: HOF Votes

    In response to Drewski5's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    The only players who should be excluded due to PEDs are ones who have actually tested positive.  You cant disqualify someone due to suspicion, no matter how much circumstantial evidence may exist.

    Bagwell

    L. Walker

    Schilling

    FWIW, Schilling's stats are better than Morris almost across the board.

    LOL to Todd Walker being on the list.  A .290 , 15 HR/ yr , lousy D second baseman.  Never received an MVP vote in his life.  Loved him in 03, but on the HOF ballot?  Really?

    FYI: I put a lot of stock into how many years were you seriously considered for an MVP.

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    Doesn't every player that meets a minimum standard (of years?) make the list?  I think so, and support that.

     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from Drewski5. Show Drewski5's posts

    Re: HOF Votes

    In response to SonicsMonksLyresVicars' comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to Drewski5's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    The only players who should be excluded due to PEDs are ones who have actually tested positive.  You cant disqualify someone due to suspicion, no matter how much circumstantial evidence may exist.

    Bagwell

    L. Walker

    Schilling

    FWIW, Schilling's stats are better than Morris almost across the board.

    LOL to Todd Walker being on the list.  A .290 , 15 HR/ yr , lousy D second baseman.  Never received an MVP vote in his life.  Loved him in 03, but on the HOF ballot?  Really?

    FYI: I put a lot of stock into how many years were you seriously considered for an MVP.

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    Doesn't every player that meets a minimum standard (of years?) make the list?  I think so, and support that.

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    not sure.  Just thought it was kind of funny

    Bonds

    Bagwell

    Biggio

    Trammell

    T. Walker

     

    HAHAHA

     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from SonicsMonksLyresVicars. Show SonicsMonksLyresVicars's posts

    Re: HOF Votes

     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from Beantowne. Show Beantowne's posts

    Re: HOF Votes

    In response to Drewski5's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    The only players who should be excluded due to PEDs are ones who have actually tested positive.  You cant disqualify someone due to suspicion, no matter how much circumstantial evidence may exist.

    Bagwell

    L. Walker

    Schilling

    FWIW, Schilling's stats are better than Morris almost across the board.

    LOL to Todd Walker being on the list.  A .290 , 15 HR/ yr , lousy D second baseman.  Never received an MVP vote in his life.  Loved him in 03, but on the HOF ballot?  Really?

    FYI: I put a lot of stock into how many years were you seriously considered for an MVP.

    [/QUOTE]

    I believe every player after five years is on the ballot. regardless of whether they were all stars or not. As for those that used vs those suspected of using peds, it's a tough call. Many played in era where the use was largely ignored and never were subjected to testing. 

    Bagwell might be the poster boy for a group of players that emassed hof numbers that today are suspected of use. Who's overall numbers are worthy, but the suspision of use might cost him the votes needed to surpass 75 percent. The same could be said of Piazza too?

    to me the most deserving on this years ballot if we ignore the pedis issue are Bonds & Clemens...the others are Biggio, Piazza, Bagwell, Edar Martinez & Lee Smith. 

    Then there's the group of close but fall just short....including Schilling, Morris, Murphy & Larry Walker.... 

     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from djcbuffum. Show djcbuffum's posts

    Re: HOF Votes

    In response to Drewski5's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    The only players who should be excluded due to PEDs are ones who have actually tested positive.  You cant disqualify someone due to suspicion, no matter how much circumstantial evidence may exist.

    [/QUOTE]


    I like your position because it's principled and makes a case-by-case assessment.  I don't really agree with it though.  "Circumstntial" evidence is often very, very compelling.  If you see a guy running down the block carrying a T.V. wearing  ski mask and gloves, and there's a broken window in an electronics store a half-block away, that's all circumstantial evidence; but absent some countervailing evidence, you'd convict, wouldn't you?

     

    Similar for PEDs; a guy may never test positive, but if you have records of sales reciepts, or his name is on a list of buyers on a dealer's laptop, or something equally incriminating, that might be good  enough for me.  

     

    I wouldn't convict on speculation and innuendo; just because a guy got big, or broke down, or hit a lot of home runs, wouldn't be enough by itself.  But if other players (or ex-players) say a guy used, and it seems corroborrated by other more circumstantial evidence, that might be enough for me.

     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from jete02fan. Show jete02fan's posts

    Re: HOF Votes

    In response to djcbuffum's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Who gets yours?

     

    PlayerVotesPercent Jack Morris  *   Jeff Bagwell  *   Lee Smith  *   Tim Raines  *   Alan Trammell  *   Edgar Martínez     Fred McGriff     Larry Walker  *   Mark McGwire     Don Mattingly     Dale Murphy  *   Rafael Palmeiro     Bernie Williams     Sandy Alomar, Jr.     Craig Biggio  *   Barry Bonds  *   Jeff Cirillo     Royce Clayton     Roger Clemens  *   Jeff Conine     Steve Finley     Julio Franco     Shawn Green     Roberto Hernández     Ryan Klesko     Kenny Lofton     José Mesa     Mike Piazza  *   Reggie Sanders     Curt Schilling  *   Aaron Sele     Sammy Sosa     Mike Stanton     Todd Walker     David Wells     Rondell White     Woody Williams

    [/QUOTE] my votes in bold


     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from nhsteven. Show nhsteven's posts

    Re: HOF Votes

    IMO, Morris & Trammell.

     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from Alibiike. Show Alibiike's posts

    Re: HOF Votes

    I think these players should get looked at hard:

    Trammel

    Smith

    Piazza

    Bagwell

    Mattingly

     
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  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from hill55. Show hill55's posts

    Re: HOF Votes

    Edgar Martinez:

    http://www.cbssports.com/mlb/blog/eye-on-baseball/21424761/ranking-the-2013-hall-of-fame-candidates-no-10-edgar-martinez

     

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