Horrendous Umpiring

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from trouts. Show trouts's posts

    Horrendous Umpiring

     Is it just me or does anyone else think that the umpiring was especially bad last night? I thought that the whole crew was awful, from the home plate ump, who called strikes on pitches that were 6 inches off the plate, especially to our left handed hitters, to the first base ump who called Cabrera safe on the pickoff attempt and made a half dozen close calls all in the Royals favor. The there was the check swing strike call on Crawford by the 3rd base ump, who must have been picking his nose at the time, that wasn't even close. Sure we just didn't score enough runs to win this one, but that doesn't negate the fact that the officiating was simply dreadful
     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from royf19. Show royf19's posts

    Re: Horrendous Umpiring

    Overall, I thought the umpiring was just fine last night. I thought Cabrera was safe at first. There might have been a pitch or two that was missed, but I thought the balls and strikes were fine. The two times Lester started to walk off when he thought he had strike three were indeed balls. And there were a couple of borderline strike calls that the Royals didn't like that the umpires did call strikes.

    The one bad call, I thought, was the check swing by Crawford.
     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from maxbialystock. Show maxbialystock's posts

    Re: Horrendous Umpiring

    Plenty of bad calls on balls and strikes, but that is absolutely normal for 75% of MLB umps.  They are almost all inconsistent. 

    The unchecked swing by Crawford was the right call and, more than that, an act of mercy.  During that at bat, Carl was absolutely clueless and dead meat.   

    I was generally fine with the calls. 

    The Sox lost because they were prostrate every time a runner was in scoring position and because the Royals pitching was excellent. 

    However, I was kind of hoping that when Scutaro missed the bunt sign Francona would have asked the chief umpire for a "redo."  I mean, where's the fairness? 
     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from expitch. Show expitch's posts

    Re: Horrendous Umpiring

    In Response to Re: Horrendous Umpiring:
    [QUOTE]Plenty of bad calls on balls and strikes, but that is absolutely normal for 75% of MLB umps.  They are almost all inconsistent.  The unchecked swing by Crawford was the right call and, more than that, an act of mercy.  During that at bat, Carl was absolutely clueless and dead meat.    I was generally fine with the calls.  The Sox lost because they were prostrate every time a runner was in scoring position and because the Royals pitching was excellent.  However, I was kind of hoping that when Scutaro missed the bunt sign Francona would have asked the chief umpire for a "redo."  I mean, where's the fairness? 
    Posted by maxbialystock[/QUOTE]
    Max, for goodness sake, please stop making statements like the one about 75% of ML umps. You have no way of knowing that, even if you watched more games than you say you do. You talk a lot about "evidence" ( you and I don't agree on what constitutes dependable evidence ), but on this point you don't ever pretend to adduce evidence of any kind. 

     
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    Re: Horrendous Umpiring

    In Response to Re: Horrendous Umpiring:
    [QUOTE]Plenty of bad calls on balls and strikes, but that is absolutely normal for 75% of MLB umps.  They are almost all inconsistent.  The unchecked swing by Crawford was the right call and, more than that, an act of mercy.  During that at bat, Carl was absolutely clueless and dead meat.    I was generally fine with the calls.  The Sox lost because they were prostrate every time a runner was in scoring position and because the Royals pitching was excellent.  However, I was kind of hoping that when Scutaro missed the bunt sign Francona would have asked the chief umpire for a "redo."  I mean, where's the fairness? 
    Posted by maxbialystock[/QUOTE]

    One or the other, take your pick or maybe a bit of each.
     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from soxmeister. Show soxmeister's posts

    Re: Horrendous Umpiring

    Strike calls were way off the plate, if you believe the pitch zone graphic.   But it might have been that way on both sides. 

    No point in bemoaning a loss, we are still in first.  On with the games!
     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from georom4. Show georom4's posts

    Re: Horrendous Umpiring

    i dont know why in this day and age we even need umpires...we can easily electronically make all calls using existing technology...keep the ump behind the plate to make the call after he is given it by tech....his only job will be to scream out the correct call and call time outs....no more arguing....
     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from Alibiike. Show Alibiike's posts

    Re: Horrendous Umpiring

    In Response to Re: Horrendous Umpiring:
    [QUOTE]i dont know why in this day and age we even need umpires...we can easily electronically make all calls using existing technology...keep the ump behind the plate to make the call after he is given it by tech....his only job will be to scream out the correct call and call time outs....no more arguing....
    Posted by georom4[/QUOTE]

    How about we play baseball like golf.....the players call themselves out or safe, determine balls fair or foul, catchers call balls and strikes.
    The umpires only job would be to interpret rules, just like golf.
     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from Your-Echo. Show Your-Echo's posts

    Re: Horrendous Umpiring

    Who has the best view of a fair ball bouncing over third base, the runner scampering to first base, the thirdbaseman trying to catch the ball and then it passes him, the other players with poorer views, or those in the dugout or the beerbelly in the bleachers?
     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from royf19. Show royf19's posts

    Re: Horrendous Umpiring

    In Response to Re: Horrendous Umpiring:
    [QUOTE]i dont know why in this day and age we even need umpires...we can easily electronically make all calls using existing technology...keep the ump behind the plate to make the call after he is given it by tech....his only job will be to scream out the correct call and call time outs....no more arguing....
    Posted by georom4[/QUOTE]

    And why don't we use robots for players so they don't make any mistakes either?Talk about boring.
     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from Soxdog67. Show Soxdog67's posts

    Re: Horrendous Umpiring

    In Response to Horrendous Umpiring:
    [QUOTE] Is it just me or does anyone else think that the umpiring was especially bad last night? I thought that the whole crew was awful, from the home plate ump, who called strikes on pitches that were 6 inches off the plate, especially to our left handed hitters, to the first base ump who called Cabrera safe on the pickoff attempt and made a half dozen close calls all in the Royals favor. The there was the check swing strike call on Crawford by the 3rd base ump, who must have been picking his nose at the time, that wasn't even close. Sure we just didn't score enough runs to win this one, but that doesn't negate the fact that the officiating was simply dreadful
    Posted by trouts[/QUOTE]

    I also thought the plate umpire had a wide strike zone last night, but it seemed to go both ways so I did not give it much thought.

    The Cabrera pick-off call was made correctly, it was real close but he was safe...the replay proved that.

    The 3b ump strike call on Crawford was borderline and I agree it looked like he checked his swng, however, like someone else said, Crawford was flailing that entire at-bat and swung at 2 pitches not even near the strike zone, maybe the ump was trying to tell him he blew that at-bat right from the first pitch...and damn all we needed was a medium level fly ball which would have scored Agon.

    In any event, as fate has it this was a game the Sox were apparently not made to win...but by their own accord, not the influence of the umpires.
     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from maxbialystock. Show maxbialystock's posts

    Re: Horrendous Umpiring

    In Response to Re: Horrendous Umpiring:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Horrendous Umpiring : Max, for goodness sake, please stop making statements like the one about 75% of ML umps. You have no way of knowing that, even if you watched more games than you say you do. You talk a lot about "evidence" ( you and I don't agree on what constitutes dependable evidence ), but on this point you don't ever pretend to adduce evidence of any kind. 
    Posted by expitch[/QUOTE]

    Expitch, you are right.  I have no authoritative stats on ball/strike calls by the umpires.  The 75% is made up (by me).

    However.

    You and I and every other fan get to watch those little boxes and where the ball goes.  They aren't just on TV.  MLB.com will give them to you on every single pitch in every single game.  Let me repeat that.  The offical website for Major League Baseball gives you detailed information on all the ball and strike calls by their umpires.  And they show plenty of missed calls.  My favorite is the strike in the middle of the plate just below the mid point of the strike zone.  You'd be amazed at how often they call that a ball.  Plus that outside strike which can be as much as 6 inches outside and still be a strike. 

    In addition, there's the simple fact that umpires are blocked on low pitches by the catcher, to say nothing of the fact that they usually perch over the catcher's shoulder on the inside corner of the plate.  So in my opinion--and I agree that's all it is--it would be surprising if umpires made accurate calls on low pitches, on outside pitches, and on low and outside pitches.  To me the amazing thing is that some of them consistently make good calls on balls and strikes. 

    Let me also say that calling balls and strikes is in my opinion very difficult.  It isn't just the blocked vision problem.  It's also the fact that someone is throwing a 85-100 mph projectile at you that can instantly be redirected by a foul tip. You could get hurt.   Then there's the fact that MLB games are interminable and the umpires are the only ones who have to stand about for the entire 3 or 4 hours.  Plus the home plate umpire doesn't get to move around much.  Plus he has to make instant decisons on roughly 300 pitches a game, to say nothing of other calls.  I could not do that.  Home plate umpires (and they all get to do it) earn their pay. 

    Note, too, that I defended last night's umpires while at the same time stating what I think is obvious, that "bad" calls on balls and strikes are commonplace.  You may disagree, and you are certainly entitled to your opinion. 
     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from jrh1194. Show jrh1194's posts

    Re: Horrendous Umpiring

    In Response to Re: Horrendous Umpiring:
    [QUOTE]Strike calls were way off the plate, if you believe the pitch zone graphic.   But it might have been that way on both sides.  No point in bemoaning a loss, we are still in first.  On with the games!
    Posted by soxmeister[/QUOTE]

    No, not "might have been", the strike calls were bad for both teams. The Royals got lousy umping last night just like the Sox. It happens. Hopefully the final outcome will be better tonight.
     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from mrmojo1120. Show mrmojo1120's posts

    Re: Horrendous Umpiring

    While I didn't agree with the umpire's strike zone,at least he was consistent in his calls.Like others,I believe the call on Crawfords check swing wasn't right.But these are calls made without the advantage we have of seeing replays.It's a split second decision and they're going to get some wrong.It's helped the Red Sox in the past,as well as hurt them at times.It's all part of the game and on the grand scale of things,you get some and you don't get some.It kind of evens out in the end.  
     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from jrh1194. Show jrh1194's posts

    Re: Horrendous Umpiring

    In Response to Re: Horrendous Umpiring:
    [QUOTE]While I didn't agree with the umpire's strike zone,at least he was consistent in his calls.Like others,I believe the call on Crawfords check swing wasn't right.But these are calls made without the advantage we have of seeing replays.It's a split second decision and they're going to get some wrong.It's helped the Red Sox in the past,as well as hurt them at times.It's all part of the game and on the grand scale of things,you get some and you don't get some.It kind of evens out in the end.  
    Posted by mrmojo1120[/QUOTE]

    I agree 100%
     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from Alibiike. Show Alibiike's posts

    Re: Horrendous Umpiring

    Umpires are a necessary evil. They keep the game moving. Can you imagine having to rely on instant replay for baseball? The games are long enough as it is.
     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from ALittleBitSouth. Show ALittleBitSouth's posts

    Re: Horrendous Umpiring

    1. Grade the umpires; 2. discipline them, publically. 
     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from maxbialystock. Show maxbialystock's posts

    Re: Horrendous Umpiring

    They probably do grade the umpires.  I don't think public censure is a good idea. 
     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from georom4. Show georom4's posts

    Re: Horrendous Umpiring

    In Response to Re: Horrendous Umpiring:
    [QUOTE]Umpires are a necessary evil. They keep the game moving. Can you imagine having to rely on instant replay for baseball? The games are long enough as it is.
    Posted by Alibiike[/QUOTE]

    just the opposite   it would shorten games by a half hour...set up the gps to cover the strike zone and the same kind of tech used for tennis and swimming to determine contact/serves...when a strike is egistered it is based on the fixed strike zone based on the rules...who you gonna complain too? not boring at all   will speed things up
     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from maxbialystock. Show maxbialystock's posts

    Re: Horrendous Umpiring

    I have sometimes thought that something like what georom proposes could work.  But I have my doubts that MLB or the umpires will do it.  Baseball is pretty traditional and for the most part cherishes the human element. 
     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from expitch. Show expitch's posts

    Re: Horrendous Umpiring

    In Response to Re: Horrendous Umpiring:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Horrendous Umpiring : Expitch, you are right.  I have no authoritative stats on ball/strike calls by the umpires.  The 75% is made up (by me). However. You and I and every other fan get to watch those little boxes and where the ball goes.  They aren't just on TV.  MLB.com will give them to you on every single pitch in every single game.  Let me repeat that.  The offical website for Major League Baseball gives you detailed information on all the ball and strike calls by their umpires.  And they show plenty of missed calls.  My favorite is the strike in the middle of the plate just below the mid point of the strike zone.  You'd be amazed at how often they call that a ball.  Plus that outside strike which can be as much as 6 inches outside and still be a strike.  In addition, there's the simple fact that umpires are blocked on low pitches by the catcher, to say nothing of the fact that they usually perch over the catcher's shoulder on the inside corner of the plate.  So in my opinion--and I agree that's all it is--it would be surprising if umpires made accurate calls on low pitches, on outside pitches, and on low and outside pitches.  To me the amazing thing is that some of them consistently make good calls on balls and strikes.  Let me also say that calling balls and strikes is in my opinion very difficult.  It isn't just the blocked vision problem.  It's also the fact that someone is throwing a 85-100 mph projectile at you that can instantly be redirected by a foul tip. You could get hurt.   Then there's the fact that MLB games are interminable and the umpires are the only ones who have to stand about for the entire 3 or 4 hours.  Plus the home plate umpire doesn't get to move around much.  Plus he has to make instant decisons on roughly 300 pitches a game, to say nothing of other calls.  I could not do that.  Home plate umpires (and they all get to do it) earn their pay.  Note, too, that I defended last night's umpires while at the same time stating what I think is obvious, that "bad" calls on balls and strikes are commonplace.  You may disagree, and you are certainly entitled to your opinion. 
    Posted by maxbialystock[/QUOTE]
    I don't know what to agree or disagree with, since the method that seems to lead to your firm conclusion is less than persuasive. 
    But I will ask what you mean by "commonplace"? That bad calls are as common as good calls? What's the percentage of each according to your perspective?
    Ted Williams was asked why he never complained about a pitch. He said, "Umpires do a hard job pretty well."
    But how can we be sure that electronics would not have exposed Beans Reardon and Jocko Conlan as "missing" plenty of calls.
    I think you've gone overboard on this topic, and I'm not sure why you bring it up at all. It's been debated in three centuries -- 19, 20, and 21. To no profit. 
    Do you have a solution for what you seem to pose as a major problem? 

     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from kimsaysthis. Show kimsaysthis's posts

    Re: Horrendous Umpiring

    In Response to Re: Horrendous Umpiring:
    [QUOTE]i dont know why in this day and age we even need umpires...we can easily electronically make all calls using existing technology...keep the ump behind the plate to make the call after he is given it by tech....his only job will be to scream out the correct call and call time outs....no more arguing....
    Posted by georom4[/QUOTE]

    I completely agree. Especially since most of the umpires have their own "strike zone", and it's whatever they want it to be. Unreal.

    Depending on the pitcher, that can really change a game.
     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from kimsaysthis. Show kimsaysthis's posts

    Re: Horrendous Umpiring

    In Response to Re: Horrendous Umpiring:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Horrendous Umpiring : And why don't we use robots for players so they don't make any mistakes either?Talk about boring.
    Posted by royf19[/QUOTE]

    I've never understood the idea that wrong calls are just part of the game, or the fact that it would be "boring" to get the calls right.

    IMO, if you throw a strike, it should be a strike. If you throw a ball it should be a ball. No one person should be able to change that just by thier own opinion.
     

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