Hot stove primer -- who is on the trading block and who won't be re-signed?

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from MadMc44. Show MadMc44's posts

    Re: Hot stove primer -- who is on the trading block and who won't be re-signed?

    In Response to Re: Hot stove primer -- who is on the trading block and who won't be re-signed?:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Hot stove primer -- who is on the trading block and who won't be re-signed? : I agree with everything up until here. Why on earth would the Padres trade the two big players they just got in return for Adrian Gonzalez for John Lackey? That makes no sense at all.
    Posted by jgallag1[/QUOTE]

    Actually I was on a site yesterday where they were discussing Lackey and going to the Padres--and it was indicated that Kelley, in the writers impression, might never make it to the Majors and Rizzo had been up and down and Fuentes--can't hit--great speed. 
    I probably could have done some research to see how well Kelley had done last season. Rizzo, I thought, was a player they were very high on.
     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from flag-waiver. Show flag-waiver's posts

    Re: Hot stove primer -- who is on the trading block and who won't be re-signed?

    With Theo and Tito going, that means a few things to me.
    Sox can get rid of a few players without excuses.
    Does not seem to be many free agents this year, but the possibility of trading
    players is very good. Ellisbury-Bard-Youk-and some rookies, could bring in new faces and talent. Everyone is expendable--everyone.
    These guys sitting back making millions and doing nothing is ruining the game. 
    Money has taken over, and the owners are being taken.
    Time IS here for new leadership and a new vision for the Sox. May take a few years to bounce back, but we do need a good change of players.
    Just hope Big Ben is not afraid to pull the trigger to mix things up. We'll see...
     
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    Re: Hot stove primer -- who is on the trading block and who won't be re-signed?

    flag,

    This has to be an active offseason for the Sox, unless people believe a new manager who sets the ground rules from day 1 is just what this team needs rather than a makeover.  I'm not so sure having the same team back is a good thing, and there are some guys with trade value on this roster.  It will be interesting to see what Cherington does, and I'd bet there may be a few fall guys because of the collapse, deservingly or undeservingly. 
     
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    Re: Hot stove primer -- who is on the trading block and who won't be re-signed?

    Something mentioned on the Big Show I thought was an interesting thought--
    NO RUMORS---NO SOX OFFICIAL SAYING ANYTHING--just one of us throwing something out there; from what I understand the person calling in didn't get to bring up the topic but from what Glenn said that was what the caller was going to bring up.

    What if the Sox went full bore after Albert Pujols and got him---would you consider trading AGon?????  We wouldn't have to, but we could--not knowing what his contract says but if there is no complicated clause would you explore it or try to trade AGon to a team like St.Louis for pitching or some other team for pitching?? OR trade CC to the Angels for something they have that we need???

    Albert is an interesting person to try  to bring to Boston...we easily have the money if we don't resign Papi, Pap, Drew,Tek and Wake...perhaps Ells would sign long term if Albert signed long term...
     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from maxbialystock. Show maxbialystock's posts

    Re: Hot stove primer -- who is on the trading block and who won't be re-signed?

    Amazing the number of folks who want to dump Ellsbury because he had a great year and his agent is Scott Boras.  He was the fangraphs top rated player in MLB and led MLB in total bases.  He had 21 rbi's and 8 dingers in September when everyone else on the Sox was next to useless.  He was the team MVP.  In three plus years of MLB he has made two errors.   

    So, of course, keep Crawford and unload Ellsbury on some poor unsuspecting NL team.  Heck, maybe the Sox should even offer to pay part of his salary like they did with Lugo, Renteria, et al. 

    Yes, I understand the problem with Crawford's salary.  But right now Ellsbury's upside looks to be better than anyone else on the team except AGon.  Pedroia never had a year this good, and he won the MVP in 2008.  Youk, forget it.  Ortiz had much better years, but he is on the downward slide to retirement. 
     
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    Re: Hot stove primer -- who is on the trading block and who won't be re-signed?

    Ortiz- this whole offseason will be determined by what RS do w/ Papi. If you don't resign = move Youk to DH and go find a 3rd baseman for next year? Problem lineup is to LH need more RH bats. Personally I bring back Papi 1 yr deal w/ team option, he's 36 no one is giving him 3 yrs. If Youk gets hurt we have Middlebrooks just about ready and Lowrie to fill in.
    Scuturo- would be perfect utility guy, not everyday SS anymore. OK w/ player option @ 3 mil.
    Lowrie- much depends on Papi. Prefer him @ 3rd if Youk moves to DH not SS everyday. Same old story though can he stay healthy? Might make good trade bait for a pitcher.
    Ellsbury- get him signed to an extension Boras or no Boras just get it done. Make offer he can't refuse, if he does then we know he doesn't want to be here and make him available for pitching, think King Felix he's from that area.
    Paps- earned the $. 3 years max though. If not willing to take H.Bell is an option.
    Team- Red Sox should be in market for RH hitting RF [Willingham] SS as usual could get by short term w/ Lowrie & Scuturo if FA's too expensive [Reyes/Rollins] and pitching, pitching, and more pitching. We have some chips in Lowrie, Reddick, and minor leaguers or if Ells unwilling to sign go after the King as in Felix. 
     
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    Re: Hot stove primer -- who is on the trading block and who won't be re-signed?

    In Response to Re: Hot stove primer -- who is on the trading block and who won't be re-signed?:
    [QUOTE]Amazing the number of folks who want to dump Ellsbury because he had a great year and his agent is Scott Boras.  He was the fangraphs top rated player in MLB and led MLB in total bases.  He had 21 rbi's and 8 dingers in September when everyone else on the Sox was next to useless.  He was the team MVP.  In three plus years of MLB he has made two errors.    So, of course, keep Crawford and unload Ellsbury on some poor unsuspecting NL team.  Heck, maybe the Sox should even offer to pay part of his salary like they did with Lugo, Renteria, et al.  Yes, I understand the problem with Crawford's salary.  But right now Ellsbury's upside looks to be better than anyone else on the team except AGon.  Pedroia never had a year this good, and he won the MVP in 2008.  Youk, forget it.  Ortiz had much better years, but he is on the downward slide to retirement. 
    Posted by maxbialystock[/QUOTE]

    Absolute best case scenario, Ellsbury has two more great years for a team whose offense is not an issue.  As great as Ellsbury was in 2011, how often was he the difference between winning and losing?  This team scored 875 runs - if you took away every run Ellsbury scored without replacement, we would still have finished 3rd in the AL.  Pitching is what failed us - if we trade Ellsbury now, we can get good young pitching in return.

     
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    Re: Hot stove primer -- who is on the trading block and who won't be re-signed?



    Lackey really needs to go.  Send Lackey to Ohio and have him hunt down the remaining tigers and bears. 
     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Hot stove primer -- who is on the trading block and who won't be re-signed?

    This is just fodder for discussion.  I'm taking the viewpoint that some players on this team MUST be traded, some may not be re-signed for various reasons and some are nearing the end of their arbitration life.  These are players that for various reasons may or may not be here next year.  Curious to see who makes a case for them to stay or go, and who could possibly replace them.     

    David Ortiz:  Is he a leader or the me-first diva that he seemed to be over the last month of the season?  He’s the face of the team, and he had a good season at DH.  But he’s just a DH and he’ll likely want multiple years at pretty big money.   This year was good, the year before that he was on the verge of being released.  Tough call – does the next GM take a deep breath and give him multiple years?

    What he "wants" is not necessarily what he gets. How many teams will offer him big money and multiple years? Maybe 1-3, maybe none.

    Marco Scutaro:   Was one of the few Sox players who actually thrived in the pressure of September.  Decent offensive production, mediocre range and defensive player.   Is 35, but Iglesias is not yet ready to assume the full time SS position.  Team option? 

    $6M team option is a lot, but we pay $1.5 if he walks, so the "real cost" is about 4.5M. BTW, his range is below mediocre.

    Jed Lowrie:   A perennial tease, good offensive  potential but constantly hurt. Can play multiple positions, can be productive offensively but where does he play every day?  SS or 3B?  Is he better than the current options?  Reportedly a standoffish or aloof player (not my opinion) that doesn’t meld very well with the current roster.

    He "melds" greatly in one area: he kills LHPs! Always has. That happens to be one of this current team's biggest weaknesses.

    Jacoby Ellsbury:  Proved that last year was a fluke and that he is a dynamic offensive player.   Played in 158 games, and was consistently among the league’s best offensive threats.  Good but not great defensive CF’er with average arm.   Next year is his last arb year and his trade value will never be higher.  Can the Sox justify paying two OF’ers $20+ mil per year.  Agent is Scott Boras, alas no hometown discounts and he will undoubtedly hit free agency.       

    He was hurt last year, so I wouldn't use the word "fluke". Had he been healthy, he may have had a year between 2009 and 2011's numbers in a natural progression to who he is now. 2011 could also be "the fluke", but I doubt it.

    Jonathan Papelbon:  Picked a good time to have a good year going into FA.  Disappointing in September, but was a stand up man in the bad times. Proven performer in a tough division and tough media market.   Other decent closers on the market this year, and he could price himself out of Boston quickly.  Based on what the Sox paid Jenks and the fact that if they whiff in FA their in-house closing options are limited, Sox should make a push to sign him.  Does he want to be here?  Will he be happy with what he’s offered here? On record as saying he wants to set the contract bar for closers.  He just may. 

    I'd go tops $50M/4, and that is too high.

    Kevin Youkilis:   Trending downward a bit, mostly due to injuries.  Can he play 3B for 130+ games over the next few years?  Can easily DH and play 3B and 1B in a pinch, an invaluable asset.   Can’t see him going anywhere.

    His OPS went up every year in MLB until 2011. I'm not sure I'd label it a downward trend yet, but as his injuries mount, it could be. I'd expect a year between his 2009-2010 seasons and his 2011 season. Up from 2011, but down from 2010 & 2009.      

    Josh Beckett:   Talented pitcher with baggage.  Ace when he wants to be, can be very average or worse.  Are the Sox going to get the Beckett of 2010 or 2011 going forward?  Has trade value.  Has he worn out his welcome?   Would a trade be addition by subtraction, or is he a staff workhorse going forward. 

    I think he comes to camp in shape with an axe to grind and something to prove.

    John Lackey:   Among the worst starting pitchers in baseball, statistically. Dubious that he can handle pitching in Boston and the AL East.  Not much trade value, severely damaged reputation, probably beyond reclamation.  Is it fish or cut bait time? 

    Boston is poison for him now. I think he was hurt and has potential to return and do Ok to pretty good, but I say "cut bait". 

    Jason Varitek:    Part of an offensively average catching duo.   Is he still the leader he was?  Is he a crutch for guys like Beckett?   Are the Sox better of going with Salty and seeing what they have in Lavarnway?

    The team won with VTek (42-22). VTek has the 16th best (out of 30) catcher OPS in MLB.. as a BACK-UP!

    Tim Wakefield:   150 innings but a 5+ ERA.  Time for a new #5 in the rotation?   Andrew Miller as an alternative doesn’t give much confidence. 

    Miller's option is $3M: no thanks. Wake is certainly replaceable, but maybe not at the same money. If you take the attitude that Henry can open the wallet: bye bye Timmy. If you try to look realistically at our budget and higher priorities, you'll see we will probably need at least 2 guys like Wake, Wang or Webb.

    ________________________
     
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    Re: Hot stove primer -- who is on the trading block and who won't be re-signed?

    Ellsbury has to stay; Lackey has to go; and Youkilis is the best trade bait we have.
     
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    Re: Hot stove primer -- who is on the trading block and who won't be re-signed?

    In Response to Re: Hot stove primer -- who is on the trading block and who won't be re-signed?:
    [QUOTE]Ellsbury has to stay; Lackey has to go; and Youkilis is the best trade bait we have.
    Posted by Schumpeters-Ghost[/QUOTE]

    How many teams need a 1Bman?

    I do not think anyone will look to youk as their 3b savior, unless they are one player away from contending. In that case, they'd give us prospects. I guess we could flip them for a useful piece, but I just don't see Youk going anywhere this winter.

     
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    Re: Hot stove primer -- who is on the trading block and who won't be re-signed?

    In Response to Re: Hot stove primer -- who is on the trading block and who won't be re-signed?:
    [QUOTE] How many teams need a 1Bman?
    Posted by moonslav59[/QUOTE]

    Nine
     
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    Re: Hot stove primer -- who is on the trading block and who won't be re-signed?

    Kim, I agree on Papi. He could've taken the high road and said "it was a tough year, some things need to change around here, and if I'm not back for any reason it's been a great run in Boston for me." His Yankee quote is presumptive -- like they're gonna overpay for him -- and in bad taste for a guy who was nothing before he came to Boston.  -- CablesWyndBairn
    --------------------------------------------------------

    Agreed. That would have been classier for sure. I don't believe there's a single Sox player that doesn't realize what it sounds like to fans who have loved them for years.
     
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    Re: Hot stove primer -- who is on the trading block and who won't be re-signed?

    The over riding factor in trading anyone from the Sox is money! They are all overpaid and they all have longterm deals. Beckett has the most market value,Youkilis if healthy is a great firstbaseman but only an average thirdbaseman,Lowrie has little or no trade value due to his injury problems. Reddick might have a decent trade value. If you really want to stun the team trade Pedey to whichever team hires his cribbage partner,you could ransom his talents for just about anything you want. As for the potential FA's Papelbon,Ortiz,Drew,Scrubtaro,Tek,Wakes and anyone else I may have missed only Paps and Ortiz have earned a return ticket, Tek might make a great replacement for the soon to be departed Curt Young as the pitching coach/b/u catcher.Scrubtaro is the second worst fielding SS that theo has brought in to man the position and he's definately not worth 6 mil a year! If i were the Sox i would let him walk but i would allow him to come back on his option for the 3 mil a year deal that he would get from the players option part of his contract,even with that said i would hand the job over to Iglesias. If Ortiz leaves then Youk automatically inherits the DH job and that opens up the thirdbase job for one of the following guys Lowrie,Aviles,Middlebrooks or maybe a surprise FA!!! Here my take on who the Sox should hire as the new manager,my brother should be the new manager he's won more championships than Tito and LaRussa combined! 6 division 5 State championships in two different states!!! Handles kids really well and knows baseball inside out. I don't know about his feelings about babying millionaires though....
     
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    Re: Hot stove primer -- who is on the trading block and who won't be re-signed?

    In Response to Re: Hot stove primer -- who is on the trading block and who won't be re-signed?:
    [QUOTE]Amazing the number of folks who want to dump Ellsbury because he had a great year and his agent is Scott Boras.  He was the fangraphs top rated player in MLB and led MLB in total bases.  He had 21 rbi's and 8 dingers in September when everyone else on the Sox was next to useless.  He was the team MVP.  In three plus years of MLB he has made two errors.    So, of course, keep Crawford and unload Ellsbury on some poor unsuspecting NL team.  Heck, maybe the Sox should even offer to pay part of his salary like they did with Lugo, Renteria, et al.  Yes, I understand the problem with Crawford's salary.  But right now Ellsbury's upside looks to be better than anyone else on the team except AGon.  Pedroia never had a year this good, and he won the MVP in 2008.  Youk, forget it.  Ortiz had much better years, but he is on the downward slide to retirement. 
    Posted by maxbialystock[/QUOTE]

    Max,

    My comments aren't necessarily about dumping Ellsbury, but that there are only so many guys who the Sox can pay like superstars.  I'd love to see Ells here, but given what they've paid Crawford can they do it?  They either keep him and take the chance that they lose him as a FA or they try to parlay his terrific season into other valuable assests.  If he has another year like last year, great.  But I think the Sox need to at least see what his market value is.   

     
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    Re: Hot stove primer -- who is on the trading block and who won't be re-signed?

    In Response to Re: Hot stove primer -- who is on the trading block and who won't be re-signed?:
    How many teams need a 1Bman?
    Posted by moonslav59


    Nine

    I'll trust your research.

    Then there are these:
    Player Club
    First Basemen

    Russell Branyan LAA
    Jorge Cantu SD
    Prince Fielder MIL
    Brad Hawpe SD
    Eric Hinske ATL *
    Ross Gload PHI
    Nick Johnson CLE
    Derrek Lee BAL
    Xavier Nady ARI
    David Ortiz BOS
    Lyle Overbay PIT
    Carlos Pena CHC
    Albert Pujols STL
    Jim Thome MIN

    After these guys are signed (some as a DH), there may be just 2-3 teams actively looking for a 1Bman. How many of them will be looking  hard enough to give up something in trade for 2 years of control of Youk?

    My point is that the trading maeket will not be hot for Youk at 1B. Maybe he could play 3B for someone, but I think most GMs realize his limited value as a fielder at 3B.

    Pretty slim pickings at 3rd:

    Third Basemen
    Wilson Betemit DET
    Casey Blake LAD *
    Eric Chavez NYY
    Mark DeRosa SF
    Greg Dobbs PHI
    Edwin Encarnacion TOR *
    Wes Helms FLA
    Melvin Mora ARI
    Aramis Ramirez CHC
    Miguel Tejada SF
    Omar Vizquel CWS

     
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    Re: Hot stove primer -- who is on the trading block and who won't be re-signed?

    In Response to Hot stove primer -- who is on the trading block and who won't be re-signed?:
    [QUOTE]This is just fodder for discussion.  I'm taking the viewpoint that some players on this team MUST be traded, some may not be re-signed for various reasons and some are nearing the end of their arbitration life.   These are players that for various reasons may or may not be here next year.   Curious to see who makes a case for them to stay or go, and who could possibly replace them.        David Ortiz:   Is he a leader or the me-first diva that he seemed to be over the last month of the season?   He’s the face of the team, and he had a good season at DH.   But he’s just a DH and he’ll likely want multiple years at pretty big money.    This year was good, the year before that he was on the verge of being released.   Tough call – does the next GM take a deep breath and give him multiple years? Marco Scutaro:     Was one of the few Sox players who actually thrived in the pressure of September.   Decent offensive production, mediocre range and defensive player.    Is 35, but Iglesias is not yet ready to assume the full time SS position.   Team option?   Jed Lowrie:    A perennial tease, good offensive   potential but constantly hurt.   Can play multiple positions, can be productive offensively but where does he play every day?   SS or 3B?   Is he better than the current options?   Reportedly a standoffish or aloof player (not my opinion) that doesn’t meld very well with the current roster. Jacoby Ellsbury:   Proved that last year was a fluke and that he is a dynamic offensive player.    Played in 158 games, and was consistently among the league’s best offensive threats.   Good but not great defensive CF’er with average arm.     Next year is his last arb year and his trade value will never be higher.   Can the Sox justify paying two OF’ers $20+ mil per year.   Agent is Scott Boras, alas no hometown discounts and he will undoubtedly hit free agency.            Jonathan Papelbon:   Picked a good time to have a good year going into FA.    Disappointing in September, but was a stand up man in the bad times.   Proven performer in a tough division and tough media market.    Other decent closers on the market this year, and he could price himself out of Boston quickly.   Based on what the Sox paid Jenks and the fact that if they whiff in FA their in-house closing options are limited, Sox should make a push to sign him.   Does he want to be here?   Will he be happy with what he’s offered here?   On record as saying he wants to set the contract bar for closers.   He just may.   Kevin Youkilis:    Trending downward a bit, mostly due to injuries.   Can he play 3B for 130+ games over the next few years?   Can easily DH and play 3B and 1B in a pinch, an invaluable asset.    Can’t see him going anywhere.            Josh Beckett:     Talented pitcher with baggage.   Ace when he wants to be, can be very average or worse.   Are the Sox going to get the Beckett of 2010 or 2011 going forward?   Has trade value.   Has he worn out his welcome?    Would a trade be addition by subtraction, or is he a staff workhorse going forward.   John Lackey:     Among the worst starting pitchers in baseball, statistically.   Dubious that he can handle pitching in Boston and the AL East.   Not much trade value, severely damaged reputation, probably beyond reclamation.   Is it fish or cut bait time?   Jason Varitek:      Part of an offensively average catching duo.     Is he still the leader he was?   Is he a crutch for guys like Beckett?    Are the Sox better of going with Salty and seeing what they have in Lavarnway?   Tim Wakefield:    150 innings but a 5+ ERA.   Time for a new #5 in the rotation?    Andrew Miller as an alternative doesn’t give much confidence.  
    Posted by CablesWyndBairn[/QUOTE]

    Jed and Lackey will be on the trading block.  Tek and Wake may not be invited back.  Papi, should be re-signed and Pap possibly the odd man out if we need more cash for other ungrades.  Scuter, I would personally bring back but Aviles could probably handle the task.  Having both Scuter and Youk would be best because Aviles can give either of them rest.
     
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    Re: Hot stove primer -- who is on the trading block and who won't be re-signed?

    David Ortiz:  Is he a leader or the me-first diva that he seemed to be over the last month of the season?  He’s the face of the team, and he had a good season at DH.  But he’s just a DH and he’ll likely want multiple years at pretty big money.   This year was good, the year before that he was on the verge of being released.  Tough call – does the next GM take a deep breath and give him multiple years?

    What he "wants" is not necessarily what he gets. How many teams will offer him big money and multiple years? Maybe 1-3, maybe none.

    You may be right, and his conciliatory response yesterday sort of makes your point. 

    Marco Scutaro:   Was one of the few Sox players who actually thrived in the pressure of September.  Decent offensive production, mediocre range and defensive player.   Is 35, but Iglesias is not yet ready to assume the full time SS position.  Team option? 

    $6M team option is a lot, but we pay $1.5 if he walks, so the "real cost" is about 4.5M. BTW, his range is below mediocre.

    I saw his UZR, I was being kind with the word mediocre.  You're right. 

    Jed Lowrie:   A perennial tease, good offensive  potential but constantly hurt. Can play multiple positions, can be productive offensively but where does he play every day?  SS or 3B?  Is he better than the current options?  Reportedly a standoffish or aloof player (not my opinion) that doesn’t meld very well with the current roster.

    He "melds" greatly in one area: he kills LHPs! Always has. That happens to be one of this current team's biggest weaknesses.

    Agreed, just not sure he's a FT player and if he had any trade value. 

    Jacoby Ellsbury:  Proved that last year was a fluke and that he is a dynamic offensive player.   Played in 158 games, and was consistently among the league’s best offensive threats.  Good but not great defensive CF’er with average arm.   Next year is his last arb year and his trade value will never be higher.  Can the Sox justify paying two OF’ers $20+ mil per year.  Agent is Scott Boras, alas no hometown discounts and he will undoubtedly hit free agency.       

    He was hurt last year, so I wouldn't use the word "fluke". Had he been healthy, he may have had a year between 2009 and 2011's numbers in a natural progression to who he is now. 2011 could also be "the fluke", but I doubt it.

    Fluke wasn't the best choice of words.  There's nothing fluky about getting your ribs smashed.  What I meant to say is that he proved he isn't as soft as some liked to think he was.  I agree that if he had a full year in 2010 he would've produced very good numbers.  I still say the GM to be named later has to at least explore what his market value is.   

    Jonathan Papelbon:  Picked a good time to have a good year going into FA.  Disappointing in September, but was a stand up man in the bad times. Proven performer in a tough division and tough media market.   Other decent closers on the market this year, and he could price himself out of Boston quickly.  Based on what the Sox paid Jenks and the fact that if they whiff in FA their in-house closing options are limited, Sox should make a push to sign him.  Does he want to be here?  Will he be happy with what he’s offered here? On record as saying he wants to set the contract bar for closers.  He just may. 

    I'd go tops $50M/4, and that is too high.

    I would go there too if I'm the Sox.  I'm willing to bet they get their money's worth even if there is some risk.  I used to think the Sox could survive without Papelbon, and maybe they can, but his comments during the Sept. swoon made me think that he "gets it" more than I ever thought he did.   

    Kevin Youkilis:   Trending downward a bit, mostly due to injuries.  Can he play 3B for 130+ games over the next few years?  Can easily DH and play 3B and 1B in a pinch, an invaluable asset.   Can’t see him going anywhere.

    His OPS went up every year in MLB until 2011. I'm not sure I'd label it a downward trend yet, but as his injuries mount, it could be. I'd expect a year between his 2009-2010 seasons and his 2011 season. Up from 2011, but down from 2010 & 2009.    

    Downward trend because of injuries only.  He was great at 1st, less wear and tear, and he's been beset by some tough injuries and I can't see that changing given his all out play and his age.  As as Tito once said, "I've seen him in the shower, he's not the Greek God of anything...".  His body is not a high performance engine, more of a rebuilt ford motor.    

    Josh Beckett:   Talented pitcher with baggage.  Ace when he wants to be, can be very average or worse.  Are the Sox going to get the Beckett of 2010 or 2011 going forward?  Has trade value.  Has he worn out his welcome?   Would a trade be addition by subtraction, or is he a staff workhorse going forward. 

    I think he comes to camp in shape with an axe to grind and something to prove.

    Agreed, but I'd still see what they could get for him. 

    John Lackey:   Among the worst starting pitchers in baseball, statistically. Dubious that he can handle pitching in Boston and the AL East.  Not much trade value, severely damaged reputation, probably beyond reclamation.  Is it fish or cut bait time? 

    Boston is poison for him now. I think he was hurt and has potential to return and do Ok to pretty good, but I say "cut bait".

    He was hurt, he was going through a divorce and he is one of thos guys that for some reason is easy to dislike (salary, demeanor).  While I think he could be the 4th-5th starter and a decent one, I think he's managed to lose the majority of Sox fans and if he struggles it could become very, very bad for him here

    Jason Varitek:    Part of an offensively average catching duo.   Is he still the leader he was?  Is he a crutch for guys like Beckett?   Are the Sox better of going with Salty and seeing what they have in Lavarnway?

    The team won with VTek (42-22). VTek has the 16th best (out of 30) catcher OPS in MLB.. as a BACK-UP!

    I'd like to see him back.  I think I'm one of the few that actually thought that Salty and Tek were a decent combo.  Can they upgrade?  Maybe. 

    Tim Wakefield:   150 innings but a 5+ ERA.  Time for a new #5 in the rotation?   Andrew Miller as an alternative doesn’t give much confidence. 

    Miller's option is $3M: no thanks. Wake is certainly replaceable, but maybe not at the same money. If you take the attitude that Henry can open the wallet: bye bye Timmy. If you try to look realistically at our budget and higher priorities, you'll see we will probably need at least 2 guys like Wake, Wang or Webb.

    As everyone always says, you can't have too many starting pitchers.  And Wake will subjugate his ego and do what the team needs (bullpen) if needed.  I wouldn't be disappointed if he's back...

     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from jgallag1. Show jgallag1's posts

    Re: Hot stove primer -- who is on the trading block and who won't be re-signed?

    One name I haven't really heard much of is Rollins. Still a solid player. I doubt that's where they go, but an interesting name nonetheless. I know there's a lot of points against Reyes. He's hurt a lot, and will cost a ton of cash, who knows what he'd do in the AL East compared to the NL and he's very similar to Jacoby and Crawford. But CC hates leadoff, and I think we've all seen that he needs his comfort zone as much as Snipes did in "The Fan". If they don't think they will be able to get Jacoby to stay (which I think they should take care of this offseason and just get it over with) then they may try to take a stab at Reyes to fill the leadoff spot. If they do that, I think Jacoby and Lowrie, plus maybe a Kalish or Reddick, could bring you just about any pitcher you'd want. And then maybe bring in Coco or the like to play Center  

    The big issues here are the money and the injuries. Ells was healthy this year, but who knows if it was this year or last year that will be the norm...he plays pretty balls out in the outfield, which I love, but can be dangerous. And then obviously, they would have to know that Jacoby would want more cash than they would be able to get Reyes for.

    For the record, I'd rather see Jacoby be the CF for the Sox for years to come, but you can't always get what you want.
     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Hot stove primer -- who is on the trading block and who won't be re-signed?

    In Response to Re: Hot stove primer -- who is on the trading block and who won't be re-signed?:
    [QUOTE]David Ortiz:   Is he a leader or the me-first diva that he seemed to be over the last month of the season?    He’s the face of the team, and he had a good season at DH.    But he’s just a DH and he’ll likely want multiple years at pretty big money.     This year was good, the year before that he was on the verge of being released.    Tough call – does the next GM take a deep breath and give him multiple years? What he "wants" is not necessarily what he gets. How many teams will offer him big money and multiple years? Maybe 1-3, maybe none. You may be right, and his conciliatory response yesterday sort of makes your point.  Marco Scutaro:      Was one of the few Sox players who actually thrived in the pressure of September.    Decent offensive production, mediocre range and defensive player.     Is 35, but Iglesias is not yet ready to assume the full time SS position.    Team option?   $6M team option is a lot, but we pay $1.5 if he walks, so the "real cost" is about 4.5M. BTW, his range is below mediocre. I saw his UZR, I was being kind with the word mediocre.  You're right.  Jed Lowrie:     A perennial tease, good offensive    potential but constantly hurt.   Can play multiple positions, can be productive offensively but where does he play every day?    SS or 3B?    Is he better than the current options?    Reportedly a standoffish or aloof player (not my opinion) that doesn’t meld very well with the current roster. He "melds" greatly in one area: he kills LHPs! Always has. That happens to be one of this current team's biggest weaknesses. Agreed, just not sure he's a FT player and if he had any trade value.   Jacoby Ellsbury:    Proved that last year was a fluke and that he is a dynamic offensive player.     Played in 158 games, and was consistently among the league’s best offensive threats.    Good but not great defensive CF’er with average arm.      Next year is his last arb year and his trade value will never be higher.    Can the Sox justify paying two OF’ers $20+ mil per year.    Agent is Scott Boras, alas no hometown discounts and he will undoubtedly hit free agency.             He was hurt last year, so I wouldn't use the word "fluke". Had he been healthy, he may have had a year between 2009 and 2011's numbers in a natural progression to who he is now. 2011 could also be "the fluke", but I doubt it. Fluke wasn't the best choice of words.  There's nothing fluky about getting your ribs smashed.  What I meant to say is that he proved he isn't as soft as some liked to think he was.  I agree that if he had a full year in 2010 he would've produced very good numbers.  I still say the GM to be named later has to at least explore what his market value is.    Jonathan Papelbon:    Picked a good time to have a good year going into FA.    Disappointing in September, but was a stand up man in the bad times.   Proven performer in a tough division and tough media market.     Other decent closers on the market this year, and he could price himself out of Boston quickly.    Based on what the Sox paid Jenks and the fact that if they whiff in FA their in-house closing options are limited, Sox should make a push to sign him.    Does he want to be here?    Will he be happy with what he’s offered here?   On record as saying he wants to set the contract bar for closers.    He just may.   I'd go tops $50M/4, and that is too high. I would go there too if I'm the Sox.  I'm willing to bet they get their money's worth even if there is some risk.  I used to think the Sox could survive without Papelbon, and maybe they can, but his comments during the Sept. swoon made me think that he "gets it" more than I ever thought he did.    Kevin Youkilis:     Trending downward a bit, mostly due to injuries.    Can he play 3B for 130+ games over the next few years?    Can easily DH and play 3B and 1B in a pinch, an invaluable asset.      Can’t see him going anywhere. His OPS went up every year in MLB until 2011. I'm not sure I'd label it a downward trend yet, but as his injuries mount, it could be. I'd expect a year between his 2009-2010 seasons and his 2011 season. Up from 2011, but down from 2010 & 2009.        Downward trend because of injuries only.  He was great at 1st, less wear and tear, and he's been beset by some tough injuries and I can't see that changing given his all out play and his age.  As as Tito once said, "I've seen him in the shower, he's not the Greek God of anything...".  His body is not a high performance engine, more of a rebuilt ford motor .     Josh Beckett:      Talented pitcher with baggage.    Ace when he wants to be, can be very average or worse.    Are the Sox going to get the Beckett of 2010 or 2011 going forward?    Has trade value.    Has he worn out his welcome?      Would a trade be addition by subtraction, or is he a staff workhorse going forward.   I think he comes to camp in shape with an axe to grind and something to prove. Agreed, but I'd still see what they could get for him.  John Lackey:      Among the worst starting pitchers in baseball, statistically.   Dubious that he can handle pitching in Boston and the AL East.    Not much trade value, severely damaged reputation, probably beyond reclamation.    Is it fish or cut bait time?   Boston is poison for him now. I think he was hurt and has potential to return and do Ok to pretty good, but I say "cut bait". He was hurt, he was going through a divorce and he is one of thos guys that for some reason is easy to dislike (salary, demeanor).  While I think he could be the 4th-5th starter and a decent one, I think he's managed to lose the majority of Sox fans and if he struggles it could become very, very bad for him here .  Jason Varitek:       Part of an offensively average catching duo.      Is he still the leader he was?    Is he a crutch for guys like Beckett?      Are the Sox better of going with Salty and seeing what they have in Lavarnway? The team won with VTek (42-22). VTek has the 16th best (out of 30) catcher OPS in MLB.. as a BACK-UP ! I'd like to see him back.  I think I'm one of the few that actually thought that Salty and Tek were a decent combo.  Can they upgrade?  Maybe.  Tim Wakefield:     150 innings but a 5+ ERA.    Time for a new #5 in the rotation?     Andrew Miller as an alternative doesn’t give much confidence.   Miller's option is $3M: no thanks. Wake is certainly replaceable, but maybe not at the same money. If you take the attitude that Henry can open the wallet: bye bye Timmy. If you try to look realistically at our budget and higher priorities, you'll see we will probably need at least 2 guys like Wake, Wang or Webb. As everyone always says, you can't have too many starting pitchers.  And Wake will subjugate his ego and do what the team needs (bullpen) if needed.  I wouldn't be disappointed if he's back...
    Posted by CablesWyndBairn[/QUOTE]

    Nice responses. I do agree about never having enough pitching, but I think we can do better than Miller at $3M. We could probably sign Wake, Wang and Webb for about $3m total, at least 2 of them.
     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from jgallag1. Show jgallag1's posts

    Re: Hot stove primer -- who is on the trading block and who won't be re-signed?

    I still think Wake has a huge value to this team, even with the 4/5 ERA. I hope he's back. As for Wang or Webb...they're both in the Smoltz/Penny low risk high reward mold that I like, but hasn't worked too well in the past. I would love to see Miller back as he has a ton of potential, but 3M is a bit high. I don't see him getting that on the open market though, so maybe they can bring him back cheaper. He's already declined the opportunity to sign with other teams because he felt Boston was the best place for him to develop into the guy he can be. For even money, I'd guess he'd do it again.
     
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