How about this trade?

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from Alibiike. Show Alibiike's posts

    How about this trade?

    Ellsbury end Buchholz to Ceveland for Masterson and Cabrera. Sign Bourn to play CF.

     
  2. This post has been removed.

     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from raider3524. Show raider3524's posts

    Re: How about this trade?

    red sox would be getting ripped off....

     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from Alibiike. Show Alibiike's posts

    Re: How about this trade?

    In response to raider3524's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    red sox would be getting ripped off....

    [/QUOTE]

    I don't think so. Ells is oft injured and in contract year. Buch is a head case.

     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from notin. Show notin's posts

    Re: How about this trade?

    If the goal was to make the team worse, this trade certainly works...

     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from raider3524. Show raider3524's posts

    Re: How about this trade?

    In response to Alibiike's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to raider3524's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    red sox would be getting ripped off....

    [/QUOTE]

    I don't think so. Ells is oft injured and in contract year. Buch is a head case.

    [/QUOTE]

    buch is a head case?  you are crazy...buch is the best we got right now...lester has to step it up...

     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from raider3524. Show raider3524's posts

    Re: How about this trade?

    In response to notin's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    If the goal was to make the team worse, this trade certainly works...

    [/QUOTE]


    i agree...it's horrible.

     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from hill55. Show hill55's posts

    Re: How about this trade?

    In response to Alibiike's comment:

    Ellsbury end Buchholz to Ceveland for Masterson and Cabrera. Sign Bourn to play CF.


    The would be one year of 29-year-old Jacoby Ellsbury at a projected $8.2 million and three years of 28-year-old Clay Buchholz at $25.5 million (or four years at $38.2 million) for two arbitration years of 27-year-old Justin Masterson working off his 2012 salary of $3.825 million and two years of 27-year-old Asdrubal Cabrera at $16.5 million.

    Ellsbury has posted a WAR of 18.7 in five seasons*, Buchholz a WAR of 9.8 in four seasons, Masterson a WAR of 12.6 in four seasons and Cabrera a WAR of 13.0 in five seasons.

    Their 2012 WARs included Ellsbury at 1.5, Buchholz at 1.9, Masterson at 2.3 and Cabrera at 2.9.

    I don't have a definite opinion on the proposal, but those are factors I would consider.

    * half of Ellsbury's career WAR came in 2011

     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from charliedarling. Show charliedarling's posts

    Re: How about this trade?

    I would not make that trade, but in the end I think that Masterson is going to have a better career than Buchholtz.

    If Ellsbury is going to be traded the Sox need a quality pitcher back for him.  Trading Ellsbury with Buchholtz needs to return at least two upper level pitchers and a couple of good prospects as well.

     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from shuperman. Show shuperman's posts

    Re: How about this trade?

    Deal without clay and adding xavier and I make this deal.  ACab and Masterson help immediately. There are plenty of cf options out there.  

     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: How about this trade?

    Masterson is not good.

    I wouldn't trade just Buch for these 2.

     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from craze4sox. Show craze4sox's posts

    Re: How about this trade?

    In response to Alibiike's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Ellsbury end Buchholz to Ceveland for Masterson and Cabrera. Sign Bourn to play CF.

    [/QUOTE]

    Two problems ....

    #1 Clay is better than Masterson

    #2 Ells is better than Cabrera

     

     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from carnie. Show carnie's posts

    Re: How about this trade?

    In response to Alibiike's comment:

    Ellsbury end Buchholz to Ceveland for Masterson and Cabrera. Sign Bourn to play CF.



    Probably the dumbest idea in the history of your dumb ideas...

     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from notin. Show notin's posts

    Re: How about this trade?

    In response to hill55's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to Alibiike's comment:

    Ellsbury end Buchholz to Ceveland for Masterson and Cabrera. Sign Bourn to play CF.



    The would be one year of 29-year-old Jacoby Ellsbury at a projected $8.2 million and three years of 28-year-old Clay Buchholz at $25.5 million (or four years at $38.2 million) for two arbitration years of 27-year-old Justin Masterson working off his 2012 salary of $3.825 million and two years of 27-year-old Asdrubal Cabrera at $16.5 million.

     

    Ellsbury has posted a WAR of 18.7 in five seasons*, Buchholz a WAR of 9.8 in four seasons, Masterson a WAR of 12.6 in four seasons and Cabrera a WAR of 13.0 in five seasons.

    Their 2012 WARs included Ellsbury at 1.5, Buchholz at 1.9, Masterson at 2.3 and Cabrera at 2.9.

    I don't have a definite opinion on the proposal, but those are factors I would consider.

    * half of Ellsbury's career WAR came in 2011

    [/QUOTE]


     

    Would you also consider that Cabrera has no business being a shortstop, and the Red Sox already have a better player in Pedroia at the only position Cabrrea is capable of fielding?

     

    I don't ike this trade for Boston, but at least the originator did not come up with some ridicuous "how about Britton and Workman and Mauro Gomez for Billy Butler and Alex Gordon?"  trades.   This one, while not in boston's favor, is actual somehwat realisitic.   I could see it hapening, I just prefer it not happen...

     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from stan17. Show stan17's posts

    Re: How about this trade?

    Absolutely not

     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from parhunter55. Show parhunter55's posts

    Re: How about this trade?

    hurting the starting pitching?  Not a good idea.  Even if it means a bit better offense at SS.  As we have seen in recent years, the Sox go nowhere without good starting pitching, even with the #1 or #2 offense in all baseball.

     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from Soxdog67. Show Soxdog67's posts

    Re: How about this trade?

    I've questioned whether the OP is a serious Sox fan or troll and trade proposals like this make me believe the latter.

     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from hill55. Show hill55's posts

    Re: How about this trade?

    In response to notin's comment:

    Would you also consider that Cabrera has no business being a shortstop, and the Red Sox already have a better player in Pedroia at the only position Cabrrea is capable of fielding?

    The listed WAR takes into account Asdrubal Cabrera's defensive deficiencies.

    To what degree do Cabrera's offensive contributions offset his defensive liabilities at shortstop? That's the issue.

    Clay Buchholz has posted of WAR of 9.8 in 636.1 career innings, including 105 starts. Justin Masterson, who is seven months younger, has posted a WAR of 12.6 in 820 career innings, including 121 starts.

     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from jasko2248. Show jasko2248's posts

    Re: How about this trade?

    In response to Soxdog67's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    I've questioned whether the OP is a serious Sox fan or troll and trade proposals like this make me believe the latter.

    [/QUOTE]

    Alibike's not a troll, he just likes to "stir the pot" in his own words.  Considering the fact that the Sox Front Office would never consider trading Buchholz alone straight up for those two guys, I'm surprised the thread got this far.

     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: How about this trade?

    In response to hill55's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to notin's comment:

    Would you also consider that Cabrera has no business being a shortstop, and the Red Sox already have a better player in Pedroia at the only position Cabrrea is capable of fielding?

    The listed WAR takes into account Asdrubal Cabrera's defensive deficiencies.

    To what degree do Cabrera's offensive contributions offset his defensive liabilities at shortstop? That's the issue.

    Clay Buchholz has posted of WAR of 9.8 in 636.1 career innings, including 105 starts. Justin Masterson, who is seven months younger, has posted a WAR of 12.6 in 820 career innings, including 121 starts.

    [/QUOTE]

    Put the WAR aside, Hill; would you really trade Buch for Masterson?

    Justin has 1 arb year left. Buch has a reasonable cost over the next 3-5 years (with low buyouts):

    13:$5.5M, 14:$7.7M, 15:$12M, 16:$13M club option ($0.245M buyout), 17:$13.5M club option ($0.5M buyout)

     
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  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from southpaw777. Show southpaw777's posts

    Re: How about this trade?

    In response to Alibiike's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Ellsbury end Buchholz to Ceveland for Masterson and Cabrera. Sign Bourn to play CF.

    [/QUOTE]


    Buchholz is 10 times the pitcher Masterson is. LHH OWN Masterson. hes nothing more than a Bullpen arm who should be brought in to face tough RHH.

    Cleveland has Brantley on an affordable contract and probably dont want Ellsbury and his projected 8-10M 2013 contract anyway.

     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from southpaw777. Show southpaw777's posts

    Re: How about this trade?

    In response to shuperman's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Deal without clay and adding xavier and I make this deal.  ACab and Masterson help immediately. There are plenty of cf options out there.  

    [/QUOTE]


    Whos Xavier? If you mean Xander Bogaerts, thats insane..

     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from southpaw777. Show southpaw777's posts

    Re: How about this trade?

    In response to hill55's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to notin's comment:

    Would you also consider that Cabrera has no business being a shortstop, and the Red Sox already have a better player in Pedroia at the only position Cabrrea is capable of fielding?

    The listed WAR takes into account Asdrubal Cabrera's defensive deficiencies.

    To what degree do Cabrera's offensive contributions offset his defensive liabilities at shortstop? That's the issue.

    Clay Buchholz has posted of WAR of 9.8 in 636.1 career innings, including 105 starts. Justin Masterson, who is seven months younger, has posted a WAR of 12.6 in 820 career innings, including 121 starts.

    [/QUOTE]


    At least Buchholz can get LHH out...They feast on mastersons pitching...That and Buchholz "stuff' if far better than JM.

     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from notin. Show notin's posts

    Re: How about this trade?

    In response to Softlaw1's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    I don't agree with the detials of this trade, but this poster is to be applauded for being specific. We have a lot of stooge posters who just whine about "make an offer they can't refuse for Anderson".

    Trading Ellsbury and his draft compensation is correct. Buch finished the season in better form and is viewed negatively beause of where he pitches.

    The Red Sox infield has just one realy serious need, and that's at 1st base. They don't need another slugging SS debacle. Middlebrooks and Iglesias and Ciriaco and Pedroia should be all set. They simply need to get a solid option at 1st as far as the infield goes. Their main need is a solid young RH OF'er to put in the middle part of the lineup. Starting pitching market offers nothing better than what's inhouse, with the exception of one 1 or 2 year lower base 2nd rate starter added and two or three veteran starters on minor league contracts or 1 year 1 to 2M contracts.

     

    [/QUOTE]


     

    See also: "Farm scraps for VMart" and "Ellsbury and blocked prospects for Upton." 

     

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