How about this trade?

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: How about this trade?

    I don't agree with the detials of this trade, but this poster is to be applauded for being specific. We have a lot of stooge posters who just whine about "make an offer they can't refuse for Anderson".

    Try to keep up. I have made very specific offers, as did this poster here, but you demanded "pools of players", not specifics. Get your story straight.

     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from EnchiladaT. Show EnchiladaT's posts

    Re: How about this trade?

    In response to Alibiike's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Ellsbury end Buchholz to Ceveland for Masterson and Cabrera. Sign Bourn to play CF.

    [/QUOTE]

    what is wrong with you? seriously.

     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from hill55. Show hill55's posts

    Re: How about this trade?

    In response to moonslav59's comment:

    Put the WAR aside, Hill; would you really trade Buch for Masterson? Justin has 1 arb year left. Buch has a reasonable cost over the next 3-5 years (with low buyouts)


    I never wrote that I would trade Clay Buchholz for Justin Masterson, but contracts aside the righthanders have comparable value.

    Masterson remains under his team's control for two arbitration years working off his 2012 salary of $3.825 million. Masterson's projected 2013 salary of $5.7 million barely exceeds the $5.5 millon salary for Buchholz. After the 2014 season at age 30, Buchholz gets expensive for a starter who has fallen short of the hype early in his career.

    Masterson derives much of his value by averaging 200+ innings a season over the past three years. Buchholz would likely pass Masterson in value if he can morph into a reliable 200-inning starter. Bill James projects 205 innings from Buchholz in 2013 coming off his career-high 189.1 innings this year.

    Justin Masterson is not an elite pitcher ... and neither is Clay Buchholz.

     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from southpaw777. Show southpaw777's posts

    Re: How about this trade?

    In response to hill55's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to moonslav59's comment:

    Put the WAR aside, Hill; would you really trade Buch for Masterson? Justin has 1 arb year left. Buch has a reasonable cost over the next 3-5 years (with low buyouts)



    I never wrote that I would trade Clay Buchholz for Justin Masterson, but contracts aside the righthanders have comparable value.

     

    Masterson remains under his team's control for two arbitration years working off his 2012 salary of $3.825 million. Masterson's projected 2013 salary of $5.7 million barely exceeds the $5.5 millon salary for Buchholz. After the 2014 season at age 30, Buchholz gets expensive for a starter who has fallen short of the hype early in his career.

    Masterson derives much of his value by averaging 200+ innings a season over the past three years. Buchholz would likely pass Masterson in value if he can morph into a reliable 200-inning starter. Bill James projects 205 innings from Buchholz in 2013 coming off his career-high 189.1 innings this year.

    Justin Masterson is not an elite pitcher ... and neither is Clay Buchholz.

    [/QUOTE]


    So would you make that trade or not?

     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from kimsaysthis. Show kimsaysthis's posts

    Re: How about this trade?

    In response to Soxdog67's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    I've questioned whether the OP is a serious Sox fan or troll and trade proposals like this make me believe the latter.

    [/QUOTE]


    Finally, someone gets this. FTR he's a Dodger fan like most of the rest of them.

     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from kimsaysthis. Show kimsaysthis's posts

    Re: How about this trade?

    In response to jasko2248's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to Soxdog67's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    I've questioned whether the OP is a serious Sox fan or troll and trade proposals like this make me believe the latter.

    [/QUOTE]

    Alibike's not a troll, he just likes to "stir the pot" in his own words.  Considering the fact that the Sox Front Office would never consider trading Buchholz alone straight up for those two guys, I'm surprised the thread got this far.

    [/QUOTE]


    What Sox fan, as you say "in his own words", likes to stir the pot on his own team's board? Some of you have to wake up. And he admits he's really a born and raised Dodger fan saying the Sox are his 2nd favorite team...which I doubt.

     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from EnchiladaT. Show EnchiladaT's posts

    Re: How about this trade?

    hill55 could find a way to make you statistically depressed over winning a million dollars.

     
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  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from kimsaysthis. Show kimsaysthis's posts

    Re: How about this trade?

    Why has no one even entertained the idea that some of these constant negative Sox fans are the same poster? Even when they constantly complain no matter who is on the team or who is in charge or make ridiculous trades that would never benefit the RS? Why is it always the positive fans that are accused of being the same poster? Is it because posters like pinstripezac, a Yankee fan, and Examiner, a Reds fan,  make most of the accusations here that are picked up by other posters?

    It couldn't be more obvious that someone on the west coast probably is laughing at how gullible everyone is here. How many more seasons of Alibiike and Geo threads are we going to have to deal with along with Seabeachfred, Pumpsie et. al reiterating their sentiments? And Hill backing them up?

    This team has changed so much over the last couple of years and the same posters are never happy no matter the changes. We're bashed for making big trades, and bashed for NOT making big trades. That's just ridiculous. How can you be so negative no matter the circumstances? Wake up!

     

     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from Hingham Hammer. Show Hingham Hammer's posts

    Re: How about this trade?

    In response to Alibiike's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Ellsbury end Buchholz to Ceveland for Masterson and Cabrera. Sign Bourn to play CF.

    [/QUOTE]  If ignorance was music you would be a one man band.


     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from hill55. Show hill55's posts

    Re: How about this trade?

    In response to southpaw777's comment:

    So would you make that trade or not?


    A trade should benefit both clubs, mutually trading from a position of one team's depth to address another team's needs. Trading two righthanded starters with similar service time does neither.

    Because neither team has much to gain, I would not do the trade.

     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from hill55. Show hill55's posts

    Re: How about this trade?

    In response to EnchiladaT's comment:

    hill55 could find a way to make you statistically depressed over winning a million dollars.


    I rarely cite Baseball Reference WAR, but I would note that BR has Clay Buchholz with a 9.5 WAR in 636.1 career innings, including 105 starts, over four seasons, while Justin Masterson has a 6.5 WAR in 820 career innings, including 121 starts, over four seasons.

    I hope that makes you feel better. ;-)

    http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/b/buchhcl01.shtml

    http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/m/masteju01.shtml

    http://www.fangraphs.com/statss.aspx?playerid=3543&position=P

    http://www.fangraphs.com/statss.aspx?playerid=2038&position=P

     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: How about this trade?

    The offer is:

    Ellsbury and his draft compensation

    Brentz

    De La Roas or Webster

    Any one player on the fram except Bradley and Barnes

     

    AZ will get much better offers, so this is a "pipe dream".

    One reason AZ is looking to trade Upton is ebcause they are deeper  at OF than other positions. 

    Listen closely now, teams generally "trade from positions of strength to gain at positions of weakness". There is no way your offer meets their needs as most of what they are getting is 2 OF'ers: Ellsbury & Brentz.

    You just don't get it. Substitute one of Morales, Doubront or Aceves for Ellsbury or Brentz,and you might be on the right track towards getting closer to what AZ wants and needs.

     

     

    And if there is a proven offer sheet that tops that, unlikely, Bogearts should be added and Brentz subtracted.

    Very difficult to "prove" an "offer sheet" from another club, so once again, you show your complete lack of understanding of how MLB works.

     

     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from Alibiike. Show Alibiike's posts

    Re: How about this trade?

    In response to kimsaysthis's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to jasko2248's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to Soxdog67's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    I've questioned whether the OP is a serious Sox fan or troll and trade proposals like this make me believe the latter.

    [/QUOTE]

    Alibike's not a troll, he just likes to "stir the pot" in his own words.  Considering the fact that the Sox Front Office would never consider trading Buchholz alone straight up for those two guys, I'm surprised the thread got this far.

    [/QUOTE]


    What Sox fan, as you say "in his own words", likes to stir the pot on his own team's board? Some of you have to wake up. And he admits he's really a born and raised Dodger fan saying the Sox are his 2nd favorite team...which I doubt.

    [/QUOTE]

    My profile says I grew up a Dodger fan and while I still like them, the RS are my favorite team. I have never once said the Sox were number 2.
    Why do you lie?

     

     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from tomnev. Show tomnev's posts

    Re: How about this trade?

    Perosnally i like Masterson and Cabrera....and considering Ells injury history and his upcoming free agnecy with Boras as his agent, the OP's original deal is not as outrageous as some are making it.....I do think the Sox come out on the short end so I wouldnt make it, but as a starting framework of a deal i could see it come up between the two clubs. I think the Sox can't afford to give up pitchers so I would try Ells and prospects for Masterson and Cabrera first.

     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from Hingham Hammer. Show Hingham Hammer's posts

    Re: How about this trade?

    In response to tomnev's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Perosnally i like Masterson and Cabrera....and considering Ells injury history and his upcoming free agnecy with Boras as his agent, the OP's original deal is not as outrageous as some are making it.....I do think the Sox come out on the short end so I wouldnt make it, but as a starting framework of a deal i could see it come up between the two clubs. I think the Sox can't afford to give up pitchers so I would try Ells and prospects for Masterson and Cabrera first.

    [/QUOTE]Cleveland is in a rebuild mode. Do you really believe they would have any interest in Ellsbury? They might consider trading Masterson and Cabrera but only for top prospects. The idea of trading Buchholz is insane. Pitching is most important element to success and the Sox don't have enough as is.


     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from BosoxJoe5. Show BosoxJoe5's posts

    Re: How about this trade?

    In response to hill55's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to Alibiike's comment:

    Ellsbury end Buchholz to Ceveland for Masterson and Cabrera. Sign Bourn to play CF.



    The would be one year of 29-year-old Jacoby Ellsbury at a projected $8.2 million and three years of 28-year-old Clay Buchholz at $25.5 million (or four years at $38.2 million) for two arbitration years of 27-year-old Justin Masterson working off his 2012 salary of $3.825 million and two years of 27-year-old Asdrubal Cabrera at $16.5 million.

     

    Ellsbury has posted a WAR of 18.7 in five seasons*, Buchholz a WAR of 9.8 in four seasons, Masterson a WAR of 12.6 in four seasons and Cabrera a WAR of 13.0 in five seasons.

    Their 2012 WARs included Ellsbury at 1.5, Buchholz at 1.9, Masterson at 2.3 and Cabrera at 2.9.

    I don't have a definite opinion on the proposal, but those are factors I would consider.

    * half of Ellsbury's career WAR came in 2011

    [/QUOTE]

    This is a bit much even from you.

     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from ctredsoxfanhugh. Show ctredsoxfanhugh's posts

    Re: How about this trade?

    Odds are Ellsbury will have a good season.  Maybe not as good as 2011 but it will be an impressive season.  His trade value will be twice what it is now at the deadline, yes I understand it is a contract year and he is a Boras client, but teams will always over pay for talent at the deadline. 

     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from BosoxJoe5. Show BosoxJoe5's posts

    Re: How about this trade?

    In response to kimsaysthis' comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to jasko2248's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to Soxdog67's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    I've questioned whether the OP is a serious Sox fan or troll and trade proposals like this make me believe the latter.

    [/QUOTE]

    Alibike's not a troll, he just likes to "stir the pot" in his own words.  Considering the fact that the Sox Front Office would never consider trading Buchholz alone straight up for those two guys, I'm surprised the thread got this far.

    [/QUOTE]


    What Sox fan, as you say "in his own words", likes to stir the pot on his own team's board? Some of you have to wake up. And he admits he's really a born and raised Dodger fan saying the Sox are his 2nd favorite team...which I doubt.

    [/QUOTE]

    You aren't allowed to both be a jerk and a Red Sox fan? Have you been to Fenway before or listened to sports radio?

     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from ThefourBs. Show ThefourBs's posts

    Re: How about this trade?

    In response to BosoxJoe5's comment:
    [QUOTE]
    You aren't allowed to both be a jerk and a Red Sox fan? Have you been to Fenway before or listened to sports radio?

    [/QUOTE]

    Good point!!

     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: How about this trade?

    Was that you next to me at the last game?

     
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  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from Bisson1. Show Bisson1's posts

    Re: How about this trade?

    This is a terrible idea for many reasons.

     

    1. Cleveland is rebuilding - they will be looking for prospects if they trade either of those guys.

    2. Ellsbury will only be traded to a team that will be able to retain him. The only logical option seems to be Texas.

    3. Buccholz is a better pitcher than Masterson.

     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from Joebreidey. Show Joebreidey's posts

    Re: How about this trade?

    In response to Alibiike's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to raider3524's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    red sox would be getting ripped off....

    [/QUOTE]

    I don't think so. Ells is oft injured and in contract year. Buch is a head case.

    [/QUOTE]

    Over the past 4 years, Masterson is 33-48 with a 4.29, while Buchholz is 41-22 with a 3.62.

     

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