How could Theo have known Crawford would flop? If you did, you were just guessing and lucky.

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from expitch. Show expitch's posts

    Re: How could Theo have known Crawford would flop? If you did, you were just guessing and lucky.

    Carl Crawford is probably the best all-around athlete on the Red Sox, and one of the best athletes ever to play for the club. Why he is still in the dumps this late in the season is anyone's guess. The consensus seems to be that he's having trouble adjusting to the spotlight in Boston. There seems to be a division of opinion between that he's mentally or emotionally soft or that he's trying too hard. Whatever the reasons(s), he's too young to be in physical decline.
    Stats declare that his current level of performance can't go on forever, but for a vet stats would also probably declare that the current level should not have gone on this long. ( Check me, moon. ) He's not having simply an off year. He's fallen off the table.
    As for improvement, either this year or next, I have to say again that until he does it, it hasn't been done, stat projections notwithstanding.  Some players have off years or tough years but don't look pathetic a lot of the time. Crawford has. Sister Lefty Catherine could probably get him out. ( Moon is right. Almost any other lefty who has this much trouble with lefties would be platooned. See rightfield. ) So the situation remains dire until it changes. Even then, the question will be, Changes how much? If it doesn't change a good deal over the course of the contract, it will be Boston's all-time stinker signing. And a good case can still be made that it wasn't a good signing -- unless there is a spectacular turnaround. But the stats don't project that either.
    Crawford seems like a good guy. His teammates like him. Terry likes him. He's going through the tortures of the damned. Heavy criticism from press or fans is not helpful, to put it mildly. There is no choice except patience, even if it were not the right thing to do for a man in Crawford's shoes. 
     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from SportingGoods. Show SportingGoods's posts

    Re: How could Theo have known Crawford would flop? If you did, you were just guessing and lucky.

    i think that 70% precent of fans thought this was an awkward signing right from the start. the gm was high from his trade for agon and in the state of jubilation
    decided to top it off with some more big name players. The 30% of people that liked the signing where also carrying over joy from agon signing and grouping the two together. neither werth nor any other so called big names in free agency
    this past summer where worth spending such huge money on.
    maybe henry wanted to show the fans that he is not short changing the sox
    due to his english football ownership.
    all in all this will be a jd drew type signing with years of complaigning to come.
    and all this is not negative or slanderous but obvious as of this season
    and for a speculator a good bet for what is too come.
     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from theYAZZER. Show theYAZZER's posts

    Re: How could Theo have known Crawford would flop? If you did, you were just guessing and lucky.

    theo's track record with FA'S speaks for itself.
    one of the worst GM'S working today. lucky the SOX have john henry to keep bailing the bum out.
    and jd crawford has gone beyond FLOP; he's reaching total disgrace territory.
     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from davescout. Show davescout's posts

    Re: How could Theo have known Crawford would flop? If you did, you were just guessing and lucky.

    In Response to Re: How could Theo have known Crawford would flop? If you did, you were just guessing and lucky.:
    [QUOTE]Phil, As you can see I have done my share of posts and under one name on boston.com.  I love the Red Sox as well as the Celtics and Patriots, but I am often critical of these teams when glaring problems like this unfortunate lull the team is going through right now come into focus.   You seem polite and intelligent but if you are suggesting there is no point in discussing the team's problems you should ignore my posts and stop policing others.  We just have opposite view points.  When the team rights itself as I hope it can still do I will be less negative but not until then.  Lighten up this is what this BB is for  full discussion.  It is a free country and red sox love it or leave is not what this place is for.
    Posted by concord27[/QUOTE]


    PawsoxPhil is just a miserable fat body and he has nothing better to do than start sh$t ......
     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from ADG. Show ADG's posts

    Re: How could Theo have known Crawford would flop? If you did, you were just guessing and lucky.

    In Response to Re: How could Theo have known Crawford would flop? If you did, you were just guessing and lucky.:
    [QUOTE]Concord, were you here in the forum at all during the Red Sox winning streak and better times or do you just come here in times like this? A reasonable question. No?
    Posted by PawsoxPhil[/QUOTE]

    What does his comment have anything to do with a winning streak? It has to do with a $20M ballplayer who is here for the next 6 years and so far, he's been a complete bust. That has nothing to do with the winning streak. 

    However, it does have to do with the potential problems down the road with a bust out on the books and the problem of paying Ellsbury.
     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from ADG. Show ADG's posts

    Re: How could Theo have known Crawford would flop? If you did, you were just guessing and lucky.

    In Response to Re: How could Theo have known Crawford would flop? If you did, you were just guessing and lucky.:
    [QUOTE]Theo is not expected to know whether a player will flop or not, it's all a bit of a calculated risk. However, fact 1. Crawford has a lousy arm. Usually outfielders that get $20 mil per year have a decent throwing arm. Fact 2. He never hit lefthanded pitching well. Fact 3. He was playing in almost obscurity in Tampa, totally out of the spotlight. Fact 4. he was coming off his career best year, and it didn't have superstar numbers. fact 5. The already had predominant Left handed line up needed a Righthanded power bat.  I don't make this stuff up, he was a bad signing. His play so far is not that of a bad signing, it is the play of a disastrous signing. His contract will block a roster spot for 6 more years. He signing was a huge mistake, time will tell exactly how bad it will stack up against other bad free agency contracts. My bet it's right up there with Mike Hampton. maybe worse, time will tell. He can't throw, his batting stance is a joke. He has no plate discipline ( they maybe able to get him to lay off unhittable pitches) You really wouldn't think they would have to train a guy the basics of hitting, when they signed him for $142 million . He has 29 extra base hits in 373 at bats, is that a fair sample? I think it is. Less than 15 stolen bases, 38 RBIS . If you don't think this cat is a bust so far, please put your head back in the sand.
    Posted by aussiewill[/QUOTE]


    Well said.
     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from theYAZZER. Show theYAZZER's posts

    Re: How could Theo have known Crawford would flop? If you did, you were just guessing and lucky.

    In Response to Re: How could Theo have known Crawford would flop? If you did, you were just guessing and lucky.:
    [QUOTE]Theo is not expected to know whether a player will flop or not, it's all a bit of a calculated risk. However, fact 1. Crawford has a lousy arm. Usually outfielders that get $20 mil per year have a decent throwing arm. Fact 2. He never hit lefthanded pitching well. Fact 3. He was playing in almost obscurity in Tampa, totally out of the spotlight. Fact 4. he was coming off his career best year, and it didn't have superstar numbers. fact 5. The already had predominant Left handed line up needed a Righthanded power bat.  I don't make this stuff up, he was a bad signing. His play so far is not that of a bad signing, it is the play of a disastrous signing. His contract will block a roster spot for 6 more years. He signing was a huge mistake, time will tell exactly how bad it will stack up against other bad free agency contracts. My bet it's right up there with Mike Hampton. maybe worse, time will tell. He can't throw, his batting stance is a joke. He has no plate discipline ( they maybe able to get him to lay off unhittable pitches) You really wouldn't think they would have to train a guy the basics of hitting, when they signed him for $142 million . He has 29 extra base hits in 373 at bats, is that a fair sample? I think it is. Less than 15 stolen bases, 38 RBIS . If you don't think this cat is a bust so far, please put your head back in the sand.
    Posted by aussiewill[/QUOTE]

    and when you do, please say hello to theo for me.
     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from theYAZZER. Show theYAZZER's posts

    Re: How could Theo have known Crawford would flop? If you did, you were just guessing and lucky.

    In Response to Re: How could Theo have known Crawford would flop? If you did, you were just guessing and lucky.:
    [QUOTE]Most of RSN is hoping for a reversal of the CC Woes. Others are more concerned abour their reputation and EGO on Globe BDC. The only other explanation for the motives and behavior of some on this forum is that they are employed by the Globe and are bent on increasing hits to the forum. It is becoming ore obvious every day here. The Globe depends on controversial columns and they determine that from these forums. Take note that the morning newspaper columnists are awake and in  the office right now and reading these posts for material. You really don't know for sure if you are responding to a troll or a Globe columnist, think about it.
    Posted by PawsoxPhil[/QUOTE]


    think about going back on your medication, phil. paranoia is tough to lick if you refuse professional help.
     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: How could Theo have known Crawford would flop? If you did, you were just guessing and lucky.

    In Response to Re: How could Theo have known Crawford would flop? If you did, you were just guessing and lucky.:
    [QUOTE]moon once Crawford does come back to norms where do you see him in the line-up for 2012 (with Elles and without).
    Posted by BurritoT[/QUOTE]

    Tito's:
    1) Ells
    2) CC
    3) Pedey
    4) AGon
    5) Youk
    6) Papi/Lav
    7) Redd
    8) Salty/VTek/Lav
    9) Lowrie/Aviles/Iglesias (Scutaro)

    My choice:
    vs RHPs:
    1) Ells
    2) CC
    3) AGon
    4) Pedey
    5) Papi
    6) Youk
    7) Redd
    8) Salty
    9) Aviles/Scut

    vs LHPs:
    1) Ells
    2) Lowrie
    3) Pedey
    4) AGon
    5) Youk
    6) Papi/Lav
    7) RH'd OF'er mid level platoon-type FA/Reddick
    8) VTek
    9) RH'd OF'er (see #7) or CC
     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from theYAZZER. Show theYAZZER's posts

    Re: How could Theo have known Crawford would flop? If you did, you were just guessing and lucky.

    In Response to Re: How could Theo have known Crawford would flop? If you did, you were just guessing and lucky.:
    [QUOTE]moonslav59 it would be one of the more astonishing things ever to happen to a player if Crawford continued at this pace throughtout his contract... it would be nealry impossible. Now your scaring me/.
    Posted by BurritoT[/QUOTE]

    jd crawford continuing at this pace throughout his contract would not astonish me;
    theo still being GM would.
     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from jrh1194. Show jrh1194's posts

    Re: How could Theo have known Crawford would flop? If you did, you were just guessing and lucky.

    In Response to Re: How could Theo have known Crawford would flop? If you did, you were just guessing and lucky.:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: How could Theo have known Crawford would flop? If you did, you were just guessing and lucky. : PawsoxPhil is just a miserable fat body and he has nothing better to do than start sh$t ......
    Posted by davescout[/QUOTE]

    LOL!
     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from Diamondtalk. Show Diamondtalk's posts

    Re: How could Theo have known Crawford would flop? If you did, you were just guessing and lucky.

    Not so sure Theo looked at the whole picture.      Crawford had always batted No. 2 while with the TB Rays.     That wasn't going to happen here with Ellbury leading off and Pedroia hitting 2nd.    Francona has slotted Crawford up and down the lineup and his OBP and speed factor have taken a plunge.Maybe he wasn't a good fit for this team in the first place.
     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from SportingGoods. Show SportingGoods's posts

    Re: How could Theo have known Crawford would flop? If you did, you were just guessing and lucky.

    jd crawbust
     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from frankn. Show frankn's posts

    Re: How could Theo have known Crawford would flop? If you did, you were just guessing and lucky.

    Explain why again you were opposed to this signing ( mostly moonslav as he has some sense of logic).  He is left-handed, poor arm, didn't play in the spotlight?  i'm not buying any of that crapola.  Which righthanded power hitting outfielder did you want?  Werth, Bay, Wily Mo, bring back Tony Armas?  He's one of the top ten athletes playing MLB; he averaged 50 stolen bases for a period of 7 years. He also hit around .300 for that time period, often hitting 3rd in their line-up. He torched and tormented the Sox for years like not too many others (ask Varitek). Despite a poor arm (really needed in Fenway's LF) he was a gold glove caliber outfielder.  The much respected Joe Madden raved about his defense and clubhouse presence.  He sure didn't wilt in the spotlight during playoff runs or in the playoffs, but i'm sure the dastardly Boston press can do that to anyone.  Would I like a Ryan Braun or a Matt Kemp?  You bet.  But I liked this signing and I'm sure that even with the year he's having Scioscia would take him in a second.

    As for paranoid Pawsox Phil.  People post at different times for different reasons.  I usually only post when I need to vent and noone is around who follows baseball enough. Life also interjects.  I'm 88 freakin' years old - family, friends, cancer -you know life.  So please check your George Bush way of thinking ( either you're with us or against us) way of thinking at the door.  I love the Sox too but just like in life cheerfully ignoring problems isn't always the best solution.
     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from SpacemanEephus. Show SpacemanEephus's posts

    Re: How could Theo have known Crawford would flop? If you did, you were just guessing and lucky.

    Crawford was signed because the organization sees the macro change evlolving in mlb post-roid-fest game.  More emphasis on defense/speed.  Still a gross overpay and he indeed has been horrible this year.  But, I think, if he can get over his nightmare year 1 and relax, he will be a great asset to the club.  Its no coincidence that the club has been grooming guys like Kalish and Reddick.  the five tool is the future.
     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from softylaw. Show softylaw's posts

    Re: How could Theo have known Crawford would flop? If you did, you were just guessing and lucky.

    My choice, as result of Theo's Carl Crawford wheelchair choice:

    Crawford/Rh SS
    Pedroia
    Agon
    Kemp
    Ortiz
    Youk
    etc doesnt matter.................
     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from fivekatz. Show fivekatz's posts

    Re: How could Theo have known Crawford would flop? If you did, you were just guessing and lucky.

    In Response to Re: How could Theo have known Crawford would flop? If you did, you were just guessing and lucky.:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: How could Theo have known Crawford would flop? If you did, you were just guessing and lucky. : It was more than just the errors. His perceived mental toughness (adjusting to Boston's fanatical fan-base) was questioned. LaRussa warned him of it at the time of the signing.
    Posted by harness[/QUOTE]That's a perception that may or may not be fact based. The only evidence of not being able to handle the market was the 30 errors. In 2003 in St Louis Renteria has a .728 OPS in 2005 in Boston it was .721.

    LaRussa can be a total tool and frankly was bitter that Renteria tentatively committed to St Louis and then took a counter offer from Boston. He have had more credibility if he said he won't field well in Boston because he isn't mentally tough enough. As it was it was a generalized shot at him and Boston for signing him that never showed up really, except in defense.

    I happen to think he got labeled quickly because the expectations for him were very high, LaRussa's label, a lot fans wanted to keep OCab and the errors. Honestly if Carl Crawford's OPS was only down 7 points from his 2010 OPS and was at .843 instead of .679, this and the other 100's of OPs about CC would not exist IMO.

    But it was about 11 extra errors (30 v. his usual 19) over 153 games that was a down turn in Boston. It has to a large extent becaome urban legend that he was a total bust, the noise of disppointment in a noisy market getting so loud in muted any contrary evidence.
     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from dannycater. Show dannycater's posts

    Re: How could Theo have known Crawford would flop? If you did, you were just guessing and lucky.

    They probably should have held on to Renteria longer than they did, so they will hold on to Crawford, who is doing far, far less, longer.
     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from fivekatz. Show fivekatz's posts

    Re: How could Theo have known Crawford would flop? If you did, you were just guessing and lucky.

    In Response to Re: How could Theo have known Crawford would flop? If you did, you were just guessing and lucky.:
    [QUOTE]They probably should have held on to Renteria longer than they did, so they will hold on to Crawford, who is doing far, far less, longer.
    Posted by dannycater[/QUOTE] Apples and oranges but yes the RS aren't moving CC this off season. Moving a contract with 3 years and $30M left on it for a player who just hit his normal stat line and had too many fielding errors is way different than trying to move a contract for a player still owed $121M and a 170 point year-to-year drop in OPS IMO.
     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from dannycater. Show dannycater's posts

    Re: How could Theo have known Crawford would flop? If you did, you were just guessing and lucky.

    It's not like they really replaced Renteria, they have had different types of guys with different weaknesses (Lugo, Alex G (my favorite defensively, solid), Scutaro, Lowrie)...potpourri. One day, the Sox will figure out they need a guy more like Dave Concepcion or even Mark Belanger, and concentrate on turning the position into a defense first-offense who cares spot. If C and SS can play defense, do their jobs, I don't care if either position hits .240. The other 7 can carry the lineup, but when you have CC and the RF hole, it just compounds problems. One day, Theo will get a SS who can be defense 1st and then keep him. Alex G was the perfect SS for the Sox.

     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from dannycater. Show dannycater's posts

    Re: How could Theo have known Crawford would flop? If you did, you were just guessing and lucky.

    quick story: At an All-Star Game, Larry Bowa said to Concepcion, "David? Thats' your first name? And Concepcion, "yeah, why." Bowa: "Oh, I thought your name was Eddie or something, every time I saw your name in a box score, it read: E-Concepcion."

     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from theYAZZER. Show theYAZZER's posts

    Re: How could Theo have known Crawford would flop? If you did, you were just guessing and lucky.

    In Response to Re: How could Theo have known Crawford would flop? If you did, you were just guessing and lucky.:
    [QUOTE]quick story: At an All-Star Game, Larry Bowa said to Concepcion, "David? Thats' your first name? And Concepcion, "yeah, why." Bowa: "Oh, I thought your name was Eddie or something, every time I saw your name in a box score, it read: E-Concepcion."
    Posted by dannycater[/QUOTE]


    another quick story:
    yazzer to crawford: carl? is that spelled with a 'C'?
    crawford: yeah, why?

    yazzer: i thought your name was karl, spelled with a 'K'., every time i saw your name it read K-CRAWFORD.
     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from Koolga. Show Koolga's posts

    Re: How could Theo have known Crawford would flop? If you did, you were just guessing and lucky.

    In Response to Re: How could Theo have known Crawford would flop? If you did, you were just guessing and lucky.:
    [QUOTE]I was taken by surprise by the signing and the size of it.  Not that Jayson Werth is having a particularly All-Star year. If it was as simple as closing up his stance, don't you think the coaching staff would have caught onto this by now.   In TB there was NO spotight, NO pressure because no one was ever at the games.  This is real different, and he knows how much he is getting paid and why he is. That's what he has to work out.  It's 100% mental adjustment.
    Posted by ipot[/QUOTE]

    Agree with you 100%.  I'd say wait till next year to see how it goes.  I would expect better numbers next year.  Even Teixeira didn't perform that well the 1st year with the Yankees. 

    If after next year his numbers don't improve, I'm on the bust bandwagon.

    I still think they overpaid by a bunch.
     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from bosportfan. Show bosportfan's posts

    Re: How could Theo have known Crawford would flop? If you did, you were just guessing and lucky.

    I always cringe at players who play half or more of their games indoors. Does anyone think Peyton Manning would have the same numbers if he played for New England?
     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from ADG. Show ADG's posts

    Re: How could Theo have known Crawford would flop? If you did, you were just guessing and lucky.

    In Response to Re: How could Theo have known Crawford would flop? If you did, you were just guessing and lucky.:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: How could Theo have known Crawford would flop? If you did, you were just guessing and lucky. : Tito's: 1) Ells 2) CC 3) Pedey 4) AGon 5) Youk 6) Papi/Lav 7) Redd 8) Salty/VTek/Lav 9) Lowrie/Aviles/Iglesias (Scutaro) My choice: vs RHPs: 1) Ells 2) CC 3) AGon 4) Pedey 5) Papi 6) Youk 7) Redd 8) Salty 9) Aviles/Scut vs LHPs: 1) Ells 2) Lowrie 3) Pedey 4) AGon 5) Youk 6) Papi/Lav 7) RH'd OF'er mid level platoon-type FA/Reddick 8) VTek 9) RH'd OF'er (see #7) or CC
    Posted by moonslav59[/QUOTE]

    moon - Scutaro has a mutual option ($6M club, $3M player) with a $1.5M buyout. Do you actually see them bringing him back? I guess depending on how the rest of the year goes, and if Aviles does okay, they probably won't sign him and just pay the buyout.  At least it saves $1.5M.
     

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