How does Jake compare to other leadoffs?

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from tom-uk. Show tom-uk's posts

    How does Jake compare to other leadoffs?

    Ellsbury has an .297 / .363 / .451 / .814 as I type.  How does that compare?

    2011 MLB leadoff spot:.258 / .323 / .378 /.701

    The game seems to have lost the super leadoff guys:

    Rickey, Raines, Phillips. Knoblauch, Lofton, Damon, Ichiro

    vs.

    Reyes, Bourn, Figgins, Roberts, Furcal

    Not so great at the moment.

    Damon is remembered as a stud for the Sox, but 2011 Jake is in his league 3 out 4! 
    '02:  .275 / .345 / .414 / .759
    '03:  .266 / .334 / .392/ .726
    '04:  .308 /.385 / .480 / .865
    .05:  .316 / .366 / .439 /805

    How many leadoffs had greater than .814 OPS in ____?

    2000, '01,  .... '10:  3, 2, 3, 2, 5, 8, 6, 7, 3, 1, and in 2011 = 3.

    Suzuki career OPS .802 and in only 4 of 11 years has he topped .814.
    Roberts career .769 only 2 of 11
    Damon career .790 only 6 of 17    
    Lofton career .795 only 6 of 17 

    I certainly wouldn't bet my house Ellsbury keeps an .814, but as leadoffs go he is near the top, especially now in the age of the pitcher.

    note some #s as leadoff only
     
     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from NUSoxFan. Show NUSoxFan's posts

    Re: How does Jake compare to other leadoffs?

    SoxSoldRed will stay out of this topic, it's very hurtful to his argument tom! How could you?
     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from harness. Show harness's posts

    Re: How does Jake compare to other leadoffs?

    Jake rakes.
    He should be traded any day now...
     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from SoxSoldRed. Show SoxSoldRed's posts

    Re: How does Jake compare to other leadoffs?

    Not more than commercially, over the career sample. His OBP was under .350, before he faced two of the worst pitching performances of the season. He benefits from having Pedroia and AGon behind him, but his career OBP is under .350 and this is small peak in a long season with valleys to come.

    Theo pays attention to a career high. I pay attention to career averages.

    He is poor, when compared to other leadoff players on the defensive side of the ball.

    Demoting him helped him change his poor reverse pivot approach. He has short arms and poor depth perception and whoever makes the mistake of signing him beyond arbitration will regret it.
     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from maxbialystock. Show maxbialystock's posts

    Re: How does Jake compare to other leadoffs?

    Classic softlaw SoxSoldRed scattershot analysis.  Pedroia, if anything, has hurt him this year.  AGon, granted, has been fantastic and definitely helped.  But here's one you can't refute:  this season Ellsbury has 3 more rbi's than the great David Ortiz, and that absolutely cannot be the result of following the likes of Drew, Crawford, and our catching duo.  He also leads the AL in SBs and is tied for 5th (and leads the Sox) in runs scored--despite Pedroia's horrible year so far. 

    And notice, sports fans, the way softlaw SoxSoldRed talks about "reverse pivot" as though it meant something and complains about his defense as a leadoff hitter.   Stick to the subject softy.  Oh, and your complaints about his defense are making less and less sense as time goes on.  You claim he lacks depth perception because sometimes he doesn't take a straight line to the ball, but guess what?  All outfielders do that sometimes.  It is impossible to go straight where the ball will end up at the crack of the bat on every ball.   And you completely undervalue speed, which is crucial to an outfielder, especially the centerfielder. 
     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from harness. Show harness's posts

    Re: How does Jake compare to other leadoffs?

    Cam musta lacked depth perception when he looked like a novice on that 8th inning flyball yesterday in Cleveland.
     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from pinstripezac32. Show pinstripezac32's posts

    Re: How does Jake compare to other leadoffs?

    all that

    plus he's a bargain
     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from fourrings. Show fourrings's posts

    Re: How does Jake compare to other leadoffs?

    gardner couldnt hit one out in detroit if he hit from second base with a tennis racquet lol
     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from harness. Show harness's posts

    Re: How does Jake compare to other leadoffs?

    Anybody wish to compare Cam - his production in a RedSox uniform - and his salary - to that of Jake?
    I didn't think so.
     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from SoxPatsCelts1988. Show SoxPatsCelts1988's posts

    Re: How does Jake compare to other leadoffs?

    He's the best in the bizz the way I see it.
     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from BosoxJoe5. Show BosoxJoe5's posts

    Re: How does Jake compare to other leadoffs?

    I made this post about a week ago. Statistically he is the best in the AL. He has surpassed even Ichiro is every statistically catagory.
     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: How does Jake compare to other leadoffs?

    Theo pays attention to a career high. I pay attention to career averages.
    (softy)

    Classic softlaw SoxSoldRed scattershot analysis.
    (max)

    Career doesn't matter with Wake: just post injury 2009.

    Career doesn't matter with VTek: just recent year batting lows.

    Career doesn't matter with BHall: just HR rate over 382 PAs.
      (about the same sample size as Jed mid-July 2010)

    Career doesn't matter with...
      Albers: 5.06 ERA/1.548 WHIP
      R.Hill: 4.74 ERA/1.346 WHIP
      Andrew Miller 5.84/1.736 (softy wants him on the 25 man not Wake)
     

    Career didn't count with Coco, just his career high 2 years in Cleve.
      (Maybe he taught Theo how to just view "career highs")
    Career didn't count with Lugo, just one "wire-to-wire" season.
      (Repeat: one season at .237: not career, not whole time in Boston)
    Career didn't count for Lackey, just what he's done lately.
      (Lackey's in decline: Oki was not)

    Career doesn't matter when he does the bashing, as in players for one play, one PA, one start, even one swing.
      (When others do it, they are racists, idiots, or cherry-pickers)

    It's OK to compare Jed defensively vs other leadoff guys who play different positions...how absurd is that? The thread is about the leadoff
    slot. How does Papi's fielding compare to other 5 slot hitters? Absurd, right?

    It's not OK to compare Jed's offense to other SSs in softy's bazzaroworld.
     
    This clown is all over the map.

    His criteria changes faster than Clinton's mistresses..

    The only "reverse pivot" around here is softy flailing and back pedaling.
     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from rameakap. Show rameakap's posts

    Re: How does Jake compare to other leadoffs?

    GREAT job as always tom and Moon...

    Facts don't lie

    Real sox fans don't hate on the talent

    leave that to softlaw/SoxsoldRed
     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from SoxSoldRed. Show SoxSoldRed's posts

    Re: How does Jake compare to other leadoffs?

    Schlep-Slav, tell the board how 5 gold gloves are meaningless.

    End of story, you have no credibility.

     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from NUSoxFan. Show NUSoxFan's posts

    Re: How does Jake compare to other leadoffs?

    In Response to Re: How does Jake compare to other leadoffs?:
    Schlep-Slav, tell the board how 5 gold gloves are meaningless. End of story, you have no credibility.
    Posted by SoxSoldRed

    This is the most grasping at straws thing I've ever seen. It's actually kinda funny. Man there's a lot of damning points being brought up (and ignored).
     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from elvis-surfs. Show elvis-surfs's posts

    Re: How does Jake compare to other leadoffs?

    jake is history...better he does now, better for us in a trade...his agent is boras, he is gone...also takes care of the question about 'where does crawford fit into the lineup?'...
     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from playball01. Show playball01's posts

    Re: How does Jake compare to other leadoffs?

    In Response to Re: How does Jake compare to other leadoffs?:
    Schlep-Slav, tell the board how 5 gold gloves are meaningless. End of story, you have no credibility.
    Posted by SoxSoldRed


    They actually are a meaningless award! Is a gold glove as valuable as a World Series ring?
     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from SoxSoldRed. Show SoxSoldRed's posts

    Re: How does Jake compare to other leadoffs?

    Is AGon selling ticket in San Diego?

    Gold gloves are voted by managers and coaches from other teams. You, sir, are incoherent.
     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from SoxSoldRed. Show SoxSoldRed's posts

    Re: How does Jake compare to other leadoffs?

    jake is history...better he does now, better for us in a trade...his agent is boras, he is gone...also takes care of the question about 'where does crawford fit into the lineup?'...

    On the money!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    His career averages are there for a reason. Should Bellsbury maintain his current OBP (it was in the .340's before the two human shell casings pitchers exploded and Pee Wee Herman was getting hits), he would have a career season that would make it the perfect time to trade him.
     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from StatsFromLouie. Show StatsFromLouie's posts

    Re: How does Jake compare to other leadoffs?

    In Response to Re: How does Jake compare to other leadoffs?:
    Is AGon selling ticket in San Diego? Gold gloves are voted by managers and coaches from other teams. You, sir, are incoherent.
    Posted by SoxSoldRed

    Take it from a Yankees fan: Jeter's Gold Gloves are meaningless. He can be adequate, but never a leading defender in the AL.

    Shoddy Gold Glove voting.
     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from playball01. Show playball01's posts

    Re: How does Jake compare to other leadoffs?

    In Response to Re: How does Jake compare to other leadoffs?:
    Is AGon selling ticket in San Diego? Gold gloves are voted by managers and coaches from other teams. You, sir, are incoherent.
    Posted by SoxSoldRed


    Explain how managers and coaches have the time to realistically evaluate all of the defensive talent of all of the other teams while managing their team's own grueling 162 game season and spending time focusing on their own teams?

    It's obvious that their decisions are made based on the ESPN highlight reels and not on personal observations or or statistical analysis. The ballot is probably filled out by the club house laundry girl or perhaps the ballboy. Such reasoning appears quite logical based on some of the recent awarded decisions made..

    Your thought process has failed you once again, this time beyond incoherence. Keep up the good work!
     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from SoxSoldRed. Show SoxSoldRed's posts

    Re: How does Jake compare to other leadoffs?

    Take if from a Red Sox fan. 5 gold gloves voted by managers and coaches, from every other team but the Yankees, are not "meaningless".

    But, Schlep-Slav claimes Jeter has never been adequate as a defensive SS. "Never ever been a good defensive SS" does not translate to adequate.
     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: How does Jake compare to other leadoffs?

    Gold gloves are voted by managers and coaches from other teams. You, sir, are incoherent.

    Managers and coaches don't even see many starting playes play even one inning: others they see 3-6 games. It's not slight on them by saying they are voting on things they are not paid to pay attention to. They are not scouts.

    I'm still waiting for softy to explain how the guy he calls a bad fielder in LF (Crawford), won a gold glove? 

    How did Palmeiro win a GG at 1B by playing just 28 games there in 1999. Did coaches and managers even know he was a DH for 128 games? Should they know or care about that?

    Explain how you use the same metric to bash Jake and Jed's fielding, but we aren't allowed to use them to show Jeter is not average. (Those same metrics actually point to Jeter being perhaps, one of the worst fielding MLbs of all time at any position! I am just saying: below average - never good.)

    Cue: crickets or goalpost moving. 

    I repeat: Jeter was never a good fielder. He may never even have been an average fielder. (I also think Jed is a below average fielder at SS)



    Yes, Gold Gloves have meaning... for shallow minds of clowns.
     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from pinstripezac32. Show pinstripezac32's posts

    Re: How does Jake compare to other leadoffs?


     
     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from playball01. Show playball01's posts

    Re: How does Jake compare to other leadoffs?

    In Response to Re: How does Jake compare to other leadoffs?:
    Take if from a Red Sox fan. 5 gold gloves voted by managers and coaches, from every other team but the Yankees, are not "meaningless". But, Schlep-Slav claimes Jeter has never been adequate as a defensive SS. "Never ever been a good defensive SS" does not translate to adequate.
    Posted by SoxSoldRed


    I followed all of Moon's comments regarding Jeter's Gold Gloves and you have totally misrepresented the statements made. Jeter isn't a Gold Glove caliber shortstop but I haven't seen him referred to as less than adequate.

    Why blatantly lie? It serves no purpose and does nothing to add any credibility to any of your arguments. In fact it only places you in a worse light than you are currently in. When does the absurdity end?
     
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