How is it that Farrell Leaves Doubront in for 120 pitches on bad starts, but takes him out after 93 tonight?

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  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from dgalehouse. Show dgalehouse's posts

    Re: How is it that Farrell Leaves Doubront in for 120 pitches on bad starts, but takes him out after 93 tonight?

    In response to southpaw777's comment:

    In response to TheExaminer's comment:

     

    In response to ADG's comment:

     

     

     

    Can anyone explain this? If a guy is that electric, hadn't thrown more than 13 pitches in any inning, yet he takes him out for a closer who has been awful?

    Any explanations?

     

     



    You, my fine feathered friend, have asked the question of the night. Silence covers Yawkee way in reply.

     

     

     




    I gave 2 very logical explinations for it. Its quite obvious and a fairly easy question to answer.

     



    I think the explanation is that it is a knee jerk reaction of many managers. We have a one run lead in the ninth , so I will bring in my closer. It was a blunder in the sense that Doubront was pitching very well and his pitch count was low. Bailey has looked very shaky of late. I think most of us did not feel confident that he could close the show. None of us can read Farrell's mind , but I doubt that wondering if we can trust Bailey as the closer going forward entered into the decision. At that point , you just want to win the game. Farrell , like many managers , felt that going with his closer was the thing to do. It was a mistake. Plain and simple. I would not try to rationalize or make excuses for it. Farrell has done an excellent job. Tonight , he made a mistake. No problem. We won. Gomes is now a made man. 

     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from ampoule. Show ampoule's posts

    Re: How is it that Farrell Leaves Doubront in for 120 pitches on bad starts, but takes him out after 93 tonight?

    I certainly agree with most of what Farrell does, but on the call today for Bailey, I think he missed it.

    I don't consider myself a monday morning quarterback, but I see no reason why Doubront was taken out...no walks, efficient count, effectie etc.

    I think leaving him in with a short leash would have been the rightr call. 

    Bailey?  I wonder if he has the makeup to pitch in pressure cooker Boston after playing for Oakland.

     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from pumpsie-green. Show pumpsie-green's posts

    Re: How is it that Farrell Leaves Doubront in for 120 pitches on bad starts, but takes him out after 93 tonight?

    In response to ADG's comment:

    Can anyone explain this? If a guy is that electric, hadn't thrown more than 13 pitches in any inning, yet he takes him out for a closer who has been awful?

    Any explanations?




    You are absolutely correct, though the pink hats will deny it. Doubront was coasting and his PC was low. It was the best game I have ever seen him pitch. The correct move was to leave him in the game, perhaps only until he allowed one baserunner, but definitely leave him in the game. How many guys in a row had he retired? 15? Bailey is a loser-without the "c". It took him exactly two pitches to cough up the tying run. Had we lost this game the blame would have gone squarely on Farrell and Bailey. Inexplicable tactics.

     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from pumpsie-green. Show pumpsie-green's posts

    Re: How is it that Farrell Leaves Doubront in for 120 pitches on bad starts, but takes him out after 93 tonight?

    In response to Hetchinspete's comment:

    In response to ADG's comment:

     

    Can anyone explain this? If a guy is that electric, hadn't thrown more than 13 pitches in any inning, yet he takes him out for a closer who has been awful?

    Any explanations?

     



    Let me see. The Sox won 69 games last year and are on pace to win 95-97 games with Farrel at the helm in what was suppose to be a rebuilding year and your playing back seat manager !!

     

    Just saying.

    Hetch



    In general, Farrell has done a good job. Tonight he blew it. Pretty simple. On the game chat that some of us post on Joel and I predicted Bailey would blow it. It took him two pitches to surrender the tying run. Bailey does not have what it takes to be a closer in Boston.

     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from crazyworldoftroybrown. Show crazyworldoftroybrown's posts

    Re: How is it that Farrell Leaves Doubront in for 120 pitches on bad starts, but takes him out after 93 tonight?


    It was bonehead move, he should have left him in to face the Lefthanded Batter, or force Madden to make a move, then if he wanted to remove him OK. Pretty sure Bailey has been getting hit hard by Lefties.

     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from Hfxsoxnut. Show Hfxsoxnut's posts

    Re: How is it that Farrell Leaves Doubront in for 120 pitches on bad starts, but takes him out after 93 tonight?

    Doubront was pitching well and had a low pitch count, agreed.  But on the other hand he has never pitched the 9th inning as a starter.  He might have been way out of his comfort zone pitching the 9th with a 1-0 lead.  The closer's reason for existence is to get 3 outs with a 1-0 lead.  Bailey didn't get it done.  But we won the game and Doubront's confidence probably gets a huge boost from his performance.

     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from Sheriff-Rojas. Show Sheriff-Rojas's posts

    Re: How is it that Farrell Leaves Doubront in for 120 pitches on bad starts, but takes him out after 93 tonight?

    In response to Hfxsoxnut's comment:

    Doubront was pitching well and had a low pitch count, agreed.  But on the other hand he has never pitched the 9th inning as a starter.  He might have been way out of his comfort zone pitching the 9th with a 1-0 lead.  The closer's reason for existence is to get 3 outs with a 1-0 lead.  Bailey didn't get it done.  But we won the game and Doubront's confidence probably gets a huge boost from his performance.



    And Bailey's confidence takes another hit.  

     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from bosoxmal. Show bosoxmal's posts

    Re: How is it that Farrell Leaves Doubront in for 120 pitches on bad starts, but takes him out after 93 tonight?

    In response to ADG's comment:

    Can anyone explain this? If a guy is that electric, hadn't thrown more than 13 pitches in any inning, yet he takes him out for a closer who has been awful?

    Any explanations?



    No, it can't be explained away. The man had jsut retired the last 17 he faced. The Rays were totally confused by his 1) command, and 2) his spped variation. His highest was 91, and his lowest around 67. And he threw at every number in between! It was by far the best Red Sox pitching performance of the year, and Farrell TOOK HIM OUT?!!???!

     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from Hfxsoxnut. Show Hfxsoxnut's posts

    Re: How is it that Farrell Leaves Doubront in for 120 pitches on bad starts, but takes him out after 93 tonight?

    In response to pumpsie-green's comment:

    The correct move was to leave him in the game, perhaps only until he allowed one baserunner, but definitely leave him in the game.



    'Leaving him in for one baserunner' might be an OK strategy sometimes but not in a one-run game.  That one baserunner becomes the tying run and puts the go-ahead run at the plate.

    Also, what if the one baserunner is a squib hit or an error?  What do you do then?

     

     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from Hfxsoxnut. Show Hfxsoxnut's posts

    Re: How is it that Farrell Leaves Doubront in for 120 pitches on bad starts, but takes him out after 93 tonight?

    In response to Sheriff-Rojas' comment:

    And Bailey's confidence takes another hit.  



    No doubt.  And so does our confidence in him.  Best to find out now if he can do the job IMO.  If he can't we need to promote Tazawa to closer, or maybe even make that rumored trade for Papelbon.  

     

     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from georom4. Show georom4's posts

    Re: How is it that Farrell Leaves Doubront in for 120 pitches on bad starts, but takes him out after 93 tonight?

    i hate to say it but I thought the manager was doing the right thing...Felix D pitched his butt off but this is why we have a closer...fresh inning, no baserunners, 3 outs and its done..too bad Bailey stinks...

    As always - 100% correct!

     
     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from 37stories. Show 37stories's posts

    Re: How is it that Farrell Leaves Doubront in for 120 pitches on bad starts, but takes him out after 93 tonight?

    In response to dgalehouse's comment:

    People get so wrapped up in defending their opinions , that they ignore the obvious. Here is the obvious.  1 - Farrell has done an excellent job.   2- Farrell made a blunder tonight.  3-  The Sox won.  Those three things are obvious to me. 

    Stabbed by Foulke.



    Exactly.

     

    It's like all the people last year that thought Reddick was going to be a perennial MVP candidate.

     

    Amazing.

     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from 37stories. Show 37stories's posts

    Re: How is it that Farrell Leaves Doubront in for 120 pitches on bad starts, but takes him out after 93 tonight?

    In response to Hfxsoxnut's comment:

    In response to Sheriff-Rojas' comment:

     

    And Bailey's confidence takes another hit.  

     



    No doubt.  And so does our confidence in him.  Best to find out now if he can do the job IMO.  If he can't we need to promote Tazawa to closer, or maybe even make that rumored trade for Papelbon.  

     

     



    It is a long season. Obviously if Bailey continues to struggle changes need to be made.  I don;t think Farrell is even thinking of making a change right now though.  

     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from slasher9. Show slasher9's posts

    Re: How is it that Farrell Leaves Doubront in for 120 pitches on bad starts, but takes him out after 93 tonight?

    The correct move is to leave doub in for the 9th until he gives up a hit or a walk.  Then he should get pulled.  Farrell overmanaged this particular game and probably was thinking more about building Bailey's confidence with a close game save at home.  it backfired on him but luckily the team responded like a closeknit group and got the walkoff in the bottom half.  Farrell should not be crucified for this move as he has been a steady force all year and has this team in position to make a run at it.

    IMO his move last night was the wrong move but i will stand by it.

     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from southpaw777. Show southpaw777's posts

    Re: How is it that Farrell Leaves Doubront in for 120 pitches on bad starts, but takes him out after 93 tonight?

    In response to dgalehouse's comment:

     

    In response to southpaw777's comment:

     

     

     

    In response to TheExaminer's comment:

     

     

     

     

     

    In response to ADG's comment:

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

    Can anyone explain this? If a guy is that electric, hadn't thrown more than 13 pitches in any inning, yet he takes him out for a closer who has been awful?

    Any explanations?

     

     

     

     



    You, my fine feathered friend, have asked the question of the night. Silence covers Yawkee way in reply.

     

     

     

     

     

     

     




    I gave 2 very logical explinations for it. Its quite obvious and a fairly easy question to answer.

     

     

     

     

     



    I think the explanation is that it is a knee jerk reaction of many managers. We have a one run lead in the ninth , so I will bring in my closer. It was a blunder in the sense that Doubront was pitching very well and his pitch count was low. Bailey has looked very shaky of late. I think most of us did not feel confident that he could close the show. None of us can read Farrell's mind , but I doubt that wondering if we can trust Bailey as the closer going forward entered into the decision. At that point , you just want to win the game. Farrell , like many managers , felt that going with his closer was the thing to do. It was a mistake. Plain and simple. I would not try to rationalize or make excuses for it. Farrell has done an excellent job. Tonight , he made a mistake. No problem. We won. Gomes is now a made man. 

     

     

     




    I hardly think it was a "knee jerk" reaction. His PC was at 93. I wouldnt say it was low, but certainly worthy to at least start the inning. It was probably discussed with Nieves and inning or 2 earlier. Thats what is usually done. Im not making excuses. I said I thought Doubie could have gone the CG. The reasoning I gave is realistic, logical and fairly easy to understand why. Is it a mistake to put in your closer in a closing situation? Do we need to know without a shadow of a doubt that Bailey can get the job done or not?

     

    Yes, Its good we won, but the move was hardly a mistake. The outcome wasnt good, but that doesnt make the move a mistake. We needed to know the answer to a very important question.

    Good to see Gomes get the walk-off. Well deserved and needed for him.

     
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  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from maxbialystock. Show maxbialystock's posts

    Re: How is it that Farrell Leaves Doubront in for 120 pitches on bad starts, but takes him out after 93 tonight?

    Farrell was asked about this after the game and said he brought in his closer because that's what the situation called for.  He also said Bailey has struggled because he throws too many fastballs, some of which are up in the zone and get blasted.  He gave no indication Bailey is out as the closer, only that he needs to work on pitch selection and location. 

    I give Farrell a pass on last night even though I was sure Doubront would pitch the 9th. 

    But there might be a larger perspective.  This is a veteran team with good chemistry and the best record in the AL and the second best record, behind St Louis, in MLB, and part of the reason for that success I think is that Farrell treats his veterans with respect.  When Drew had the concussion in ST and missed a bunch of games, Farrell stuck by him.  When Bradley had the very good ST but struggled in Boston, he went back to Pawtucket and veterans took over the outfield.  Injuries could still bring Bradley back, plus he looks like the heir apparent to the CF job.    Iglesias, despite flawless fielding and an OPS over 1.000, has not started every game.  But he has displaced Ciriaco as the utility infielder, only one who gets to start a lot of games at 3B, SS, and even 2B. 

    An example of what I am getting at is last night's game.  Bailey comes in, gives up the game-tying dinger, but then gets three outs.  In the bottom of the 9th another much-maligned veteran, Gomes, is not pinch hit for and delivers the gamewinning dinger.  One player repairing the damage made by another player has happened multiple times this season. 

    When and if Bailey loses the closer role, the whole team, including Bailey himself, will know he got a fair shot.

     

     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from Hfxsoxnut. Show Hfxsoxnut's posts

    Re: How is it that Farrell Leaves Doubront in for 120 pitches on bad starts, but takes him out after 93 tonight?

    I agree, max, there can be bigger things in play, some of which we're not even aware of.  Managers can't always be thinking of just that one game, they have a whole season to manage. 

     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from LloydDobler. Show LloydDobler's posts

    Re: How is it that Farrell Leaves Doubront in for 120 pitches on bad starts, but takes him out after 93 tonight?

    In response to jasko2248's comment:

    Are you Grady Little?  Just curious...Your schtick is to crucify managers, especially Tito, whenever possible, so I thought maybe you are Grady Little and you're still bitter over getting fired for not pulling Pedro back in '03...


    Amazingly, the only manager he ever liked was Bobby Valentine. So ...

    With the benefit of hindsight, Farrell should have left Felix in. But at the time, I agreed with bringing in Bailey, so I'm not going to be hypocritical about it now. In such a situation, you go with your closer and expect him to do his job.

    A bigger question now is, who should our closer be? Bailey has obvious issues. Personally, I like Koji.

     

     

     

     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from southpaw777. Show southpaw777's posts

    Re: How is it that Farrell Leaves Doubront in for 120 pitches on bad starts, but takes him out after 93 tonight?

    In response to LloydDobler's comment:

    In response to jasko2248's comment:

     

    Are you Grady Little?  Just curious...Your schtick is to crucify managers, especially Tito, whenever possible, so I thought maybe you are Grady Little and you're still bitter over getting fired for not pulling Pedro back in '03...

     


    Amazingly, the only manager he ever liked was Bobby Valentine. So ...

    With the benefit of hindsight, Farrell should have left Felix in. But at the time, I agreed with bringing in Bailey, so I'm not going to be hypocritical about it now. In such a situation, you go with your closer and expect him to do his job.

     

    A bigger question now is, who should our closer be? Bailey has obvious issues. Personally, I like Koji.

     

     

     




    If Miller is hot, he is , IMO, the best option. Problem is like with most BP arm hes not always consistent. But that 14.1K/9 is a beautiful thing.

    Bottom line is bailey will remain the closer for the time being. But Farrell made it very known that he needs to step it up.

     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from LloydDobler. Show LloydDobler's posts

    Re: How is it that Farrell Leaves Doubront in for 120 pitches on bad starts, but takes him out after 93 tonight?

    Of course, had Farrell stuck with Doubront and he gave up the tying homer to Johnson, the title of this thread would have been "Farrell should never have left Felix in for the 9th!!"

     

     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from Hfxsoxnut. Show Hfxsoxnut's posts

    Re: How is it that Farrell Leaves Doubront in for 120 pitches on bad starts, but takes him out after 93 tonight?

    In response to LloydDobler's comment:

    Of course, had Farrell stuck with Doubront and he gave up the tying homer to Johnson, the title of this thread would have been "Farrell should never have left Felix in for the 9th!!"



    Ha, you got that straight Lloyd. 

    "Farrell, look what you did to Doubie's confidence!  You pushed the kid too far!  What do we have a closer for?"

     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from LloydDobler. Show LloydDobler's posts

    Re: How is it that Farrell Leaves Doubront in for 120 pitches on bad starts, but takes him out after 93 tonight?

    In response to 37stories' comment:



    It is a long season. Obviously if Bailey continues to struggle changes need to be made.  I don;t think Farrell is even thinking of making a change right now though.  


    Been meaning to ask you: Is that Sinatra's mug shot?

     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from LloydDobler. Show LloydDobler's posts

    Re: How is it that Farrell Leaves Doubront in for 120 pitches on bad starts, but takes him out after 93 tonight?

    In response to Hfxsoxnut's comment:

    Ha, you got that straight Lloyd. 

    "Farrell, look what you did to Doubie's confidence!  You pushed the kid too far!  What do we have a closer for?"

     



    "Everybody knows you go with your closer in that situation! Obviously all those years with 'Coma have ruined him!!"

     

     

     

     
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